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  • BitWarden and 1Password both closely match LastPass in terms of features.
  • I found 1Password to have a better user interface than BitWarden, so I prefer it for that reason. Bitwarden has the advantage of a self-hosted option.
  • iCloud keychain is fine for basic needs of many users, but it's not meant to be a full, cross-platform, cross-need product like those others, so it's not really comparable.
  • Proton has been around for over 10 years - they're not a "security startup"
  • Any of these options are infinitely better than no password manager, which sadly is what many/most people do
 
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Not endorsing what happened but all tech firms have to comply with local laws. Like many big corporations Apple even has a team dedicated to complying with law enforcement requests. In this case Proton was obliged by a court order to disclose what they had. They would have had a lot less to disclose if the subject had practiced good digital hygiene.

The only problem is that if you go to the Proton sub they heavily imply that the reason their services cost so much is because they’re in Switzerland which is magically supposed to protect you.

I get that they have to comply with legal requests. That’s the point. Having offices and servers in Switzerland, and the extra costs associated with that, can’t be justified.

There are plenty of other companies offering secure email, VPNs, password managers, etc that are in non-US jurisdictions and would have to comply with pretty much the same legal requests.

So why did Proton constantly sell the fact that they were in Switzerland as some sort of privacy win?

They’re a shady company.

Like, when they did their big redesign awhile back, they announced on Reddit that existing users would be grandfathered in to any price increases.

Tons of users raced to buy or renew their subscriptions and I even said on Reddit, “Given that Proton is already the most expensive private email service, you’re not raising prices so this heads up that a price change is coming is just a huge cash grab.”

Their rep staunchly denied it was a cash grab.

Lo and behold, they announced their new pricing and all they did was bundle more services into their plans.

Many of the people that had jumped up in plans to lock in the lower costs suddenly realized that they were fine with the tier that they had been at and tried to get refunds which were denied, credit only.

The whole thing was intended to FOMO people into upgrading.

Like i say, a privacy company that isn’t transparent in its marketing isn’t a privacy company.
 
Though I think these products are worth paying for (and I do pay for one), I think $10/month is way too expensive for a password manager

Proton Pass Plus is $10 for the entire first year. $23.88 per year after that.
 
The feature description came from Proton's website. You might ask Proton if AI wrote their website.

Yeah, no. Their website actually makes sense. The paragraph I quoted does not.

I think it is just a simplification (for the purposes of marketing) of what is actually happening. It does use Argon2 (to derive the "master" encryption key from your password), and it is an integral part of how the encryption scheme works. It's certainly a little more interesting than the actual encryption algorithm for your passwords, which is probably just standard AES (which is what everyone uses).

I forgive the second part because they never said "internet intruder", just "unauthorised access". And, if at some point your 'vault' is stolen, they are trying to say that it's hard to crack, even when 'unlimited' offline resources can be thrown at it (whether the claim is true... who knows).

If you can manage to explain this reasonably in two short paragraphs, the author should be able to as well.

If you don't know about crypto, don't write about it. Quote (with attribution) from the web page if you think it's important. Of course this applies to all tech subjects, and writers everywhere have been failing at this since time immemorial, but screwing up this badly is more often AppleInsider's thing.
 
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This is nonsensical word salad. A hash algorithm is not an encryption function, by definition, as it's one-way. And the notion that an encryption method is strong enough to protect you from an internet intruder WHEN YOU'RE NOT CONNECTED TO THE INTERNET is hilarious...

Was this written by AI?
I was going to mention how "Swiss-based" isn't correct, but this is even better.

Not that I care tho, I have been happy with Bitwarden for years now.
 
Not endorsing what happened but all tech firms have to comply with local laws. Like many big corporations Apple even has a team dedicated to complying with law enforcement requests. In this case Proton was obliged by a court order to disclose what they had. They would have had a lot less to disclose if the subject had practiced good digital hygiene.
They handed over logs based upon a court order, that's fine.

Trouble is that they advocated "a no logging policy", thus they should have been able to comply with the court order and handed over everything they had.

Which should have been absolutely nothing whatsoever.

Only after they had delivered the stuff to the court, they removed the "no logging policy" statement from their public site.

These guys sold and still sells trust and confidentiality, and there's no reason whatsoever to trust them for anything unless it it totally insignificant by any measure.
 
The only problem is that if you go to the Proton sub they heavily imply that the reason their services cost so much is because they’re in Switzerland which is magically supposed to protect you.

I get that they have to comply with legal requests. That’s the point. Having offices and servers in Switzerland, and the extra costs associated with that, can’t be justified.

There are plenty of other companies offering secure email, VPNs, password managers, etc that are in non-US jurisdictions and would have to comply with pretty much the same legal requests.

So why did Proton constantly sell the fact that they were in Switzerland as some sort of privacy win?

They’re a shady company.

Like, when they did their big redesign awhile back, they announced on Reddit that existing users would be grandfathered in to any price increases.

Tons of users raced to buy or renew their subscriptions and I even said on Reddit, “Given that Proton is already the most expensive private email service, you’re not raising prices so this heads up that a price change is coming is just a huge cash grab.”

Their rep staunchly denied it was a cash grab.

Lo and behold, they announced their new pricing and all they did was bundle more services into their plans.

Many of the people that had jumped up in plans to lock in the lower costs suddenly realized that they were fine with the tier that they had been at and tried to get refunds which were denied, credit only.

The whole thing was intended to FOMO people into upgrading.

Like i say, a privacy company that isn’t transparent in its marketing isn’t a privacy company.
Agree their marketing can be a bit shady. Like when they have their ‘sales’ advertising 40% off. But when you look at the fine print it is for a 2-year deal which is almost the exact same price as when it is not on sale…
 
Ahhh, really?


I was going to say you should l2read, because that link does not suggest that 1password in any way failed its users. But your pushback against others pointing that out suggests that you are either hopelessly clueless, or hopelessly biased. (Or paid to do this, but it seems unlikely to me that anyone would fund this sort of nonsense.)

FWIW, I use 1P. It's the only subscription software I own. It's well worth the roughly one dollar/month per family member for the annual family plan. I don't love some of the things they've done (using Electron, jeez) but my mom with dementia can still use it. That's worth... a LOT.
 
Hmm for me never gonna change and use the super apple cleaning cloth polished iCloud keychain
 
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FWIW, I use 1P. It's the only subscription software I own. It's well worth the roughly one dollar/month per family member for the annual family plan. I don't love some of the things they've done (using Electron, jeez) but my mom with dementia can still use it. That's worth... a LOT.

I've found the same. While I'd probably be back on Bitwarden if it were just me, 1Password's ease of use and item sharing is what's gotten my family members members on board with password managers. Been a big security upgrade from just using the same short passwords for everything for them.
 
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What makes you think that? Their data centers are in Switzerland and Germany. They have VPN servers (for their Proton VPN service) in other countries, but not in China AFAIK.
 

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  • Apple separates passwords, address and credit cards into three different apps.
  • When updating to a new device you must reregister your credit cards which means you must supply the CVS for each. With third party cloud password managers all you need to do is login again.
  • They don’t support oddball logins like American Airlines, Treasury Direct or EFTPS
  • In the credit card area, Apple doesn’t autofill the CVS
  • You cannot have multiple addresses
  • You cannot autofill your license, passport or other generic data.

It is annoying that Apple Password Manager doesn't allow you to store all kinds of other completely unrelated data.

Passports and other identifying documents are being added to the Apple Wallet.
 
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Not endorsing what happened but all tech firms have to comply with local laws. Like many big corporations Apple even has a team dedicated to complying with law enforcement requests. In this case Proton was obliged by a court order to disclose what they had. They would have had a lot less to disclose if the subject had practiced good digital hygiene.
I use 1pass 7 vaulted through apple, 1pass 8 goes through Canada which i will not do under any way shape or form. PP might be ok if Proton will not turn over info to the Swiss gov. I get they may have to but I would prefer not to. But I will stay with what I have right now. When apple turns off older software which they will do at some point, then I will switch to something else. If PP uses anything from china that is a automatic no on every level. They don't so far. I'll look at the packets and see.
 
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