Proton Sues Apple Over 'Artificial and Arbitrary' App Store Fees

[cupcakes2000]

I demand Tesla make a gas power car. I deserve it! I couldn’t be bothered to do my research before I bought it and now I’m mad I can’t shop at my favorite gas station!

The government should something! How dare Tesla!

It’s not a comparison I’m afraid.

I have been an Apple customer for decades, and an iOS customer since it was invented. Things change and progress, and now it’s time for that with apples ecosystem. Making out it’s just me that wants it or I’m selfish for wanting it is as absurd as suggesting I should move to android.

 

[jadehsn]

My preferences for my device which I paid for are more important than yours or apples, certainly

Let's say you wanted the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. You chose to buy a Switch. Nintendo is getting a cut of the sale from the developer CD Projekt Red for you buying the Switch version. You could have the choice to buy a PlayStation or XBox and play it there too. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all get their cut in some fashion. Guess what? Most are at 30% too.

At least you can still get many of these services in the Apple Store direct from their own websites vs platforms built by huge companies.

 

[Cesar Battistini]

We chose the walled garden eden! Please do not destroy it.

It's just like the snake all over again...

 

[surferfb]

It’s not a comparison I’m afraid.

You’re demanding a company make a product they don’t want to because you don’t want to use the one of its competitors’ products.

With the added bonuses that it takes away the existing product from those who prefer it. Completely selfishly!

 

[TheSynchronizer]

I don’t think you can possibly know whether anyone is completely fine with it, let alone the ‘vast vast majority’. What you do know is the vast majority are stuck with it if they want an iPhone. That’s all you know.

And that doesn’t mean it’s right or just in any case.

No one is stuck with an iPhone. No one is stuck with an android either. In fact, people can have neither, or both!

Do both platforms come with compromises designed and implemented by the creators of the platforms? Yes.

Does everything else in life come with some form of compromise? Also yes.

All in all, while it would be nice to have the freedom perhaps to do completely whatever you want on iPhones, I still see no moral reason why the creators of a product shouldn’t have full creative control over its design, so long as they’re honest and upfront about the limitations when selling the product to the customer. The app store and iOS limitations have never been a secret.

 

[paradox00]

I've been a long time fan of Proton. Love what they're doing and their services, but I'm also in the e-commerce world. I find all these complaints of Apple taking a piece of the pie so interesting.

Anyone sell on Amazon or eBay? What do Amazon or eBay do? They take a piece of the pie. If you develop a game for PS or the Switch, Nintendo or Sony takes a piece of the pie. This is the same business model that SO many companies employ, and yet people like to single out Apple (or Google) for that matter for trying to take a cut. Apple has developed a platform that has traffic and a means of selling a product (in this case an app). If you want to play in their playground, you have to pay for that. Yes, I recognize it's a separate service beyond on app, but they are choosing to be on that platform to distribute.

Why doesn't anyone get mad at Amazon for taking 15%+ of my selling price for an item I've sold on Amazon? It's the same thing. It might be a one-time sale on Amazon, but if that customer keeps coming back and buying the same thing from me time and time again on Amazon, should Amazon not take their 15% cut?

A lot of people get mad at Amazon… it’s just not a frequent topic on Apple sites.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Let's say you wanted the Witcher 3: Wild Hunt. You chose to buy a Switch. Nintendo is getting a cut of the sale from the developer CD Projekt Red for you buying the Switch version. You could have the choice to buy a PlayStation or XBox and play it there too. Nintendo, Sony, and Microsoft all get their cut in some fashion.

At least you can still get many of these services direct from their own websites vs platforms built by huge companies.

It’s an phone. In my country it’s virtually obligatory to be able to live a normal life with banking and gov services. It’s not a games console.

 

[jadehsn]

A lot of people get mad at Amazon… it’s just not a frequent topic on Apple sites.

You're right. My whole point was this model exists all over the place, but Apple always seems to get singled out for doing the same thing many many other companies do.

 

[cupcakes2000]

You’re demanding a company make a product they don’t want to because you don’t want to use the one of its competitors’ products.

With the added bonuses that it takes away the existing product from those who prefer it. Completely selfishly!

It’s not selfish to ask that I should be able to download a, for example, open source anti censorship app like Briar becuase I’m running scared in my own country. Says a lot about Apple not allowing me too though.

 

[surferfb]

It’s not selfish to ask that I should be able to download a, for example, open source anti censorship app like Briar becuase I’m running scared in my own country. Says a lot about Apple not allowing me too though.

It is incredibly selfish when that takes away the opportunity for a closed ecosystem from everyone who want one when an open alternative already exists that you can’t be bothered to use.

But we’re never going to agree, so disengaging here.

 

[Mrkevinfinnerty]

Sued yet again for creating a shop, setting rules for selling in the shop, allowing others to sell in the shop, and then enforcing the shops rules.

You missed the bit where they created their own version of all lots of the products for sale in the shop which were not subject to the same rules.

 

[cupcakes2000]

It is incredibly selfish

I’m sorry, I just don’t know how anyone can accuse anyone of that with a straight face whilst talking about Apple and their methods. That’s a level of dedication only Apple can achieve with their users, that is.

 

[CapitalIdea]

“Proton suggests Apple's policies disadvantage end users by controlling the information that developers can provide to customers…”

Translation: Apple won’t give us data to sell!

 

[BuffaloTF]

Proton claims Apple's App Store fees encourage the "surveillance capitalism business model" used by companies like Meta and Google, while harming smaller privacy-focused companies that don't monetize data. Free apps that exploit data don't pay Apple's fees, but apps that offer services in exchange for money do have to give a cut to Apple.

They aren’t wrong about that. Though I guess I’d strike Google off that list because - at least currently - they’re paying Apple quite handsomely for the default search placement. Perhaps not a perfect equivalent… but Meta and all the free apps doing the same thing aren’t giving them a single dime at all, in any capacity.

 

[mwhite]

I’ve said before that Apple was rather greedy in their high fees (regardless of what other companies are/were doing), but what is an “artificial” fee? These developers filing these lawsuits are the biggest whiners. Does the Google Play Store charge the same fees? That’s something I don’t know. Do they?

 

[cupcakes2000]

“Proton suggests Apple's policies disadvantage end users by controlling the information that developers can provide to customers…”

Translation: Apple won’t give us data to sell!

You both haven’t understood the post and don’t know who Proton are.

 

[breenmask]

You don't mind if I buy all the land around your home and setup shop, do you?

Terribly analogy considering it's YOU who moved into a house where Apple already surrounded the house with land they own

Who moves into a house doing zero research? lol

 

[BuffaloTF]

You missed the bit where they created their own version of all lots of the products for sale in the shop which were not subject to the same rules.

But they are subject to the same rules. No department within a company offers their services to a different department free of charge. You want someone from my team to assist you? That’s $5500 a month for them to join your project, even if the commitment is only 1 hour a week.

 

[breenmask]

Amazon app is hosted by Apple and is among the most downloaded apps yet they don't pay 30% tax same goes for Uber. In this case small devs like Proton are paying the hosting for big tech.

Proton is free to sell memberships outside the app before pushing the user to download the app.

 

[surferfb]

I’ve said before that Apple was rather greedy in their high fees (regardless of what other companies are/were doing), but what is an “artificial” fee? These developers filing these lawsuits are the biggest whiners. Does the Google Play Store charge the same fees? That’s something I don’t know. Do they?

They do. Apple’s fees are entirely industry standard.

 

[cupcakes2000]

But they are subject to the same rules

You think apples own apps are subject to the rules they enforce on 3rd parties?

 

[DotCom2]

We all know who uses protonmail 😏

Diddy?

 

[cupcakes2000]

Proton is free to sell memberships outside the app before pushing the user to download the app.

Yet if someone downloaded the app first, are not free to mention that within the app.

 

[breenmask]

Can’t install Android apps on an iPhone.

I can't install Nintendo Switch games on my Playstation 5. This has been going on well before iPhone existed.

Can’t migrate all of your paid iPhone apps to Android.

Can't migrate all of my Switch games to my Playstation 5.

Again, a different app marketplace. Must replace your Apple Watch when switching to Android.

Must replace all of my Nintendo Switch controllers with Playstation 5 controllers.

More active iOS devices than there are Windows 10/11 computers

Android has 3x more active devices than iOS. Clearly iOS isn't a monopoly.

I don’t understand why this is so difficult to understand.

see above. apparently it's only when Apple does it is when it's considered a monopoly.

That makes them part of the same market and not a monopoly; but that doesn’t apply to the App Store and Google Play/Play Services.

Services should never be proprietary? Playstation trophies should be compatible with Xbox achievements? lol that's not a good argument.

 

[Ctrlos]

You're right. Dozens and dozens of companies employ this same tactic. It's been around for decades. I think Apple and Google get singled out because they're huge monstrous companies.

I'm not saying change is bad. Perhaps the 30% is too much and should be diminished, but the fact of the matter is, this business model is here. If it has to change for Apple, I don't see why it shouldn't change for the dozens of other companies doing the same thing for allowing someone to sell through their platforms.

Why do you think Epic sued Apple in the first place, a company that accounted for less than 8% of its Fortnite revenue? PlayStation was over 60% of their market.

But Apple are the biggest fish. You win against them and you can leverage anyone. Epics ultimate goal is either reduced PlayStation fees or the Epic store on consoles and they weren't about to bite the hand that feeds them.