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Yep there is. But there are only two for the billions and billions of smartphone users. Which is my point.
arbitrary distinction rather than arguing on principle.

"if it reaches 999,999,999 people, you're allowed to do XYZ, but! 1,000,000,000 users? now you must follow xyz rules " is a bad argument.
 
But they don't have a monopoly over the distribution of software to a billion devices.

Billion devices is an arbitrary distinction. If a platform has 999,999,999 users, suddenly you're fine with companies having a monopoly over distribution of software?

Nah.

And actually yes, my current investment of games and peripherals does get carried over.

PS5 plays PS4 games, older PSN purchases and works with PS4 controllers.

I have apps that works on iPhone 14 Pro that carried over to my iPhone 15 Pro. Wireless controllers work too. Even apps from iPhone 10 work just fine on iPhone 15 Pro. You're just agreeing with me.
 
Selfish are the $3 trillion corporations. Foolish are their defenders. Users telling others to leave because they want to turn a blind eye to Apple's faults seems pretty selfish from my pov as well. My 2c.
Disagree. One contingent are arguing for taking away a closed option from everyone. The other is saying “if that’s so important to you, pick the option that lets you do it.

Hardly anyone choses the iPhone because it is a closed ecosystem (the numbers will be higher here, but most iPhone users aren't here). The closed nature of the App Store probably isn't in the top 10 reasons of why most people buy an iPhone. It's be a false dichotomy anyway, as Google is just as big of a monopolist on the Android side too (try using one without Play Services). Switching just invites a new set of issues to critique, it doesn't solve the problems with either platform.
And given 95% of people on Android just end up on the Playstore, the “benefit” gained from making Apple open up isn’t worth the cost of taking away a closed option.

The fact of the matter is there is plenty of choice in the mobile market and no one is forced to use or develop for Apple.
 
arbitrary distinction rather than arguing on principle.

"if it reaches 999,999,999 people, you're allowed to do XYZ, but! 1,000,000,000 users? now you must follow xyz rules " is a bad argument.
The distinction isn’t between the amount of users, rather the amount of providers.
 
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You're right. My whole point was this model exists all over the place, but Apple always seems to get singled out for doing the same thing many many other companies do.

Scale, scope and state of the respective market. The rules change based on that; and only Microsoft and NVIDIA have a higher market cap then Apple. If you start at the top and work down, there isn't a big list ahead of Apple. Also your own attention bias: the DOJ is trying to break Google up right now, yet you say Apple is getting singled out. They aren't.
 
The distinction isn’t between the amount of users, rather the amount of providers.
not sure why you emphasized "for the billions and billions of smartphone users" then.

there's been 3 choices for console market for a while. and we had 3 smartphone platforms but the market decided there's no need for a third. maybe you should have dumped iPhone for Windows Phone if you wanted more platforms to succeed. the fault is on you for continuing to feed Apple more money instead of supporting more platforms.
 
These idiot developers are going to ruin things for the rest of us. Too many people don't remember what it was like before things like app stores existed and how incredibly expensive it was to host your own app. 15% - 30% is NOTHING compared to the 70% - 90% it cost you to do all that yourself back in the day, and you didn't have any chance of going viral.
The days of retail boxed software distribution are long past and never coming back. No one is charging 70~90% margins.

To have a platform that you can just host on and have it take care of distribution, payment processing, refunds, tax information, and free development tools is incredible. Proton should just give their service away for free since they think everyone else should do the same.
No one is taking that away from you.

App stores are incredibly expensive things to run, especially since a lot of the apps make no money but still utilize the resources.
Incredibly expensive according to who? Apple? If that's true, why haven't they made this case by bringing actual figures to any of the bodies trying to regulate App Store fees?

No one is taking away the App Store for developers who actually want to use it. This is a completely specious line of argument.
 
The days of retail boxed software distribution are long past and never coming back. No one is charging 70~90% margins.


No one is taking that away from you.


Incredibly expensive according to who? Apple? If that's true, why haven't they made this case by bringing actual figures to any of the bodies trying to regulate App Store fees?

No one is taking away the App Store for developers who actually want to use it. This is a completely specious line of argument.
You clearly don't know what you're talking about.
 
This is getting so out of hand. Why aren't Amazon and Google being sued for the same thing? Kindle tablets have to use the Amazon store. They can't side load books.

I though Proton was better than this but clearly they're as money hungry as Epic Games
 
Disagree. One contingent are arguing for taking away a closed option from everyone. The other is saying “if that’s so important to you, pick the option that lets you do it.

So why can't Apple have a closed option with the option of opening up to the wider audience?

Jailbroken Apple devices have has this since iPhone 1. Cydia made the original App Store - not Apple.

Keep it closed, but give people the tick box as an option to do what they want with their device. But Apple won't - which is monopolistic.
 
This is getting so out of hand. Why aren't Amazon and Google being sued for the same thing? Kindle tablets have to use the Amazon store. They can't side load books.

I though Proton was better than this but clearly they're as money hungry as Epic Games

??? Google was sued over its Play Store practices and came to a 700 million dollar settlement. 630 of that going to Android users, so if you've ever owned one since they first released... check your email frequently for your claim.
 
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If I wanted to run an ad for my photography business on Instagram, I can do so within the app. Did you know Apple take 30% of that payment for me to run my ad campaign on instagrams platform?

How is that fair?

Further, meta aren’t even allowed to tell me that, or redirect me to their website where it’s 30% cheaper - because Apple won’t let them.

How is that fair for apples own users?!

Come on - I know you’ll all defend it!
 
Reading the proposed injunctions is always hilarious in how hard they overreach.

“Require Apple to allow users to manage subscriptions purchased outside the App Store—such as those made via developer websites—through the user’s iOS device, including cancellation, plan changes, and upgrades”

They already provide this solution. It’s called Safari.
They now provide an even better solution. The Wallet app.

IMG_3317.jpeg
 
So why can't Apple have a closed option with the option of opening up to the wider audience?

Jailbroken Apple devices have has this since iPhone 1. Cydia made the original App Store - not Apple.

Keep it closed, but give people the tick box as an option to do what they want with their device. But Apple won't - which is monopolistic.

I’d argue the iPhone isn’t just hardware, it’s an integrated software and security experience, and the closed ecosystem is a core part of the value proposition that Apple sells. You’re essentially saying, “Why can’t Apple offer a fundamentally different product just because a small but very vocal minority of our customers want it?” Well they could, but Apple doesn’t want to, so they shouldn’t be forced to.

Jailbreaking is a hack around Apple’s platform, not part of it. Cydia wasn’t something Apple endorsed; it was an unofficial workaround that introduced serious security risks. If anything, Apple’s effort to shut it down reinforces that this model is intentionally not part of the iPhone experience.

As for the “open mode” setting idea, that leads to serious legal, security, and liability concerns. If users sideload malware, who’s responsible? If Apple says they’re not responsible is that “anticompetitive” preferencing their own store? What limitations are in place from preventing malicious actors from socially engineering unsophisticated users into enabling the setting? The EU doesn’t want Apple putting up warning screens that accurately state third party stores and sideloading have been proven in Android to be less safe.

Again, there’s already an option for users who want to sideload and use alternative stores. Users who care should take advantage of it.
 
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I can't install Nintendo Switch games on my Playstation 5. This has been going on well before iPhone existed.




Can't migrate all of my Switch games to my Playstation 5.




Must replace all of my Nintendo Switch controllers with Playstation 5 controllers.




Android has 3x more active devices than iOS. Clearly iOS isn't a monopoly.




see above. apparently it's only when Apple does it is when it's considered a monopoly.



Services should never be proprietary? Playstation trophies should be compatible with Xbox achievements? lol that's not a good argument.

Breaking up my post into tiny pieces, engaging in whataboutism, and not engaging with my primary point isn't convincing. Android and iOS are separate markets that both dwarf the video game markets and at least match Windows (which has faced anti-trust action). Both Google and Apple are facing their own anti-trust action, so Apple isn't being singled out to anyone paying attention.

Video games are much smaller fish to fry after the big ones are dealt with. They aren't some gotcha or get out of jail free card for Apple. Being critical of Apple doesn't mean I don't have criticisms of the video game industry. They are just literally less important (and obviously less relevant on an Apple website). Neither Sony or Nintendo is among the top 100 corporations in market cap, and Microsoft is losing ground despite their wealth. The market analysis is also more complex because a lot of people do own multiple platforms, and people do actively cross-shop and choose which platform to buy a title on. It is a topic worthy of discussion on its own, but not really pertinent or relevant for this one. If you want to engage in this discussion, don't run from it and hide behind another one.
 
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As for the “open mode” setting idea, that leads to serious legal, security, and liability concerns.
No, it doesn't.
If users sideload malware, who’s responsible?
The user.
If Apple says they’re not responsible is that “anticompetitive” preferencing their own store?
No.
What limitations are in place from preventing malicious actors from socially engineering unsophisticated users into enabling the setting?
Ideally, something similar to those already on the Mac.
The EU doesn’t want Apple putting up warning screens that accurately state third party stores and sideloading have been proven in Android to be less safe.
Is that because Apple (as found in other cases) went over the top with trying to scare users rather than just clearly communicating the relevant info?
Again, there’s already an option for users who want to sideload and use alternative stores. Users who care should take advantage of it.
If you say Android, I'm going to have a hard time taking you seriously. I picked Apple over Android for other reasons. My desire for Apple to improve their own platform is a separate point. This "if you don't like it then leave" mentality I'm seeing throughout this thread (not just from you) is really disingenuous and ignores that there are a lot of other reasons one might choose Apple over other options.

There's nothing wrong with picking the better of two flawed options and still expecting the one you picked to eventually become even less flawed.
 
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