PRSI Forum discussion

[AZhappyjack]

One of the reasons - there are a number of reasons I drop in daily - but, one of the reasons I continue to come here is to find out what right wing Americans think and why they hold the views they do.

That's interesting, indeed. The few times I've ventured into the cesspool, all I see are conservatives and their viewpoints being drawn and quartered. Regardless of one's politics, I see the PRSI area as full of vitriol toward and mockery of the conservative viewpoint.

 

[Apple_Robert]

I still find it difficult to understand why people who's main interest is politics come to a tech site for their daily fix.

The probable reason there are so many that mainly use the PRSI forum is that many have been banned from other political / societal based forums due to their constant verbal abuse of other guests, and continual disregard of forum rules.

I have read numerous posts by the MR staff about how said forum is, and has a been a constant source of problems and increased workload for the staff. In my opinion, there is really no excuse for a forum to be such a continual source of problems and increased workload for the staff, outside of the powers that be on MR allowing such to happen.

One of the reasons that said forum has been such a problem over the years, is due to the 'freestyle' type atmosphere that has been initiated by the higher up powers that be. And this atmosphere (such as it is) has mutated time and time again, due to the changes to forum policy, as to how much will be allowed.

In my opinion, the problems that afflict the PRSI forum can easily be corrected by using one or more of the following options.

1) Remove the forum.

I understand that the PRSI forum is a source (to whatever degree) of ad revenue for Arn et al. At the same time, I don't believe it generates the amount of revenue for the site that the rest of the tech-based forums (in their entirety) generate. In that light, what meaningful reason is there to continue the PRSI forum in its current atmosphere?

I don't think it is right to put a continued workload from the forum on the current mod staff, especially when they are giving of their time without financial compensation.

2) Raise the intellectual bar of the forum

If Arn et al want the forum to stay, then the powers that be need to raise the intellectual bar of the forum by creating a tightly moderated forum where insults, attacks, trolling of other problems in said forum will not be tolerated. Anyone found guilty of such by the mod staff will receive a 30-day suspension from all of MacRumors. Anyone found guilty of a second offense in said forum is permanently banned from MacRumors.

In regards to the remodeling of the forum, keep the number of rules short and simple to understand. This lessens the likelihood of a forum member claiming he or she did not understand what a particular rule meant.

If the forum is kept, I believe there should be specific moderators assigned to the forum. I suggest adding 2 new moderators to the staff for this purpose. This will free up Mike, Weasel, Oily, and the other moderators to help carry the load on the tech forums, thus allowing them to have more of a positive interaction with the forum members outside of moderator related posts. The mods are very knowledgeable when it comes to Apple and tech gadgets in general. Their posts are very helpful in this regard.

If the current setup means that the mod staff has to spend most of their time cleaning up trash instead of using the site like the rest of us, I think that that is a detriment to the forum long term. I also think that it can also lead to unnecessary frustration and mental burnout for the mods.

In my opinion, if a person cannot rightfully discuss and debate a topic without continually and purposefully insulting other guests by the use of ad hominem attacks, and other attempts to skirt forum rules, such a person has no business in said forum, much less MacRumors. Those who want to have real discussion and debate will make a point (in quick fashion) to make sure that they are above board with their posting. Those who don't really care, will be weeded out in short fashion. Others will take note and the forum will change into a higher caliber discussion and debate forum.

This is a well-known forum and respected business. As such, I don't think the caliber of the forum and business is aided by the PRSI forum in its current state.

In my opinion, Arn et al need to address this situation immediately, (whatever option is decided). Otherwise, this unnecessary problem will continue to get worse creating more of a negative impact for stafff, members and onlookers.

 

[Weaselboy]

If Arn et al want the forum to stay, then the powers that be need to raise the intellectual bar of the forum by creating a tightly moderated forum where insults, attacks, trolling of other problems in said forum will not be tolerated. Anyone found guilty of such by the mod staff will receive a 30-day suspension from all of MacRumors. Anyone found guilty of a second offense in said forum is permanently banned from MacRumors.

There is a fairly recent rule change that partly addresses what you mentioned. This new, more strict enforcement of the rules in PRSI has resulted in some forum members losing access to that section. Too soon to tell what the impact of that will be on moderator workload. I'm thinking it will help though.

Announcement: Some changes in the way the PRSI section is moderated

 

[RichardMZhlubb]

And, as for why people come here to talk politics, I can only say that this is one of the few message boards I’ve found that actually has active engagement from all parts of the political spectrum. I think that only happens when posters are there for other, non-political reasons. A politically focused board is almost always going to attract only one side and I find echo chamber forums totally worthless.

 

[samiwas]

That would fix the dumpster fire known as the PRSI. I've said this many times, I don't see the need for a political forum at a technology fan sight.

I still find it difficult to understand why people who's main interest is politics come to a tech site for their daily fix.

I can help you out. I come (sorry, came...) to PRSI because it was the most level-headed politics forum around. Almost every politics forum out there is a hardcore right-wing, troll-filled, insult to brain cells, which just makes you weep for humanity. The MacRumors PRSI forum offered a much more balanced discussion forum where people from both sides could regularly have some very interesting, while sometimes heated, discussions. I learned a lot from reading it and really enjoyed my time there originally.

But, as more and more threads got posted there from the front page (it used to be rare, then it seemed like multiple times per week), more people "discovered" PRSI. It brought in a much more, how shall I say...alternative...bend to the forum. We went from having a mostly-core group of posters able to have long and reasonable discussions with wildly different viewpoints (with even the heated name-calling posts standing), to having numerous, egregious right-wing, InfoWars-type people flooding the place. Their presence brought the level of civility in the forum down a LOT, and caused the much more balanced people (I'm not using balanced as a term for liberal) to respond in ways that ended up getting them banned. But, since the ....alternative... posters had not done anything specifically against the rules, they got to stay. So, slowly but surely, the ...alternative... folks outnumbered the mostly-civil folks, and the place became, as maflynn put it, a dumpster fire.

Main point: increased posts from the front page brought in a lot of people, and a change to heavy moderation removed most of the original posters, making the place the way it is now. I don't see PRSI in its current form lasting much longer. It was great. Too bad.

The takeaway: don't post front-page stories in PRSI. Too late now.

[doublepost=1520223349][/doublepost]

And, as for why people come here to talk politics, I can only say that this is one of the few message boards I’ve found that actually has active engagement from all parts of the political spectrum. I think that only happens when posters are there for other, non-political reasons. A politically focused board is almost always going to attract only one side and I find echo chamber forums totally worthless.

Indeed. I used to frequent a political sub-forum on another site that turned out to be so utterly horrible, I finally left. I mean, I enjoy banter with both sides, and at the time, I actually searched out a more right-leaning forum even though I'm decidedly left. I just wanted to get a bit more into differing viewpoints. It turned out to just be a disgusting display of humanity.

 

[OllyW]

The takeaway: don't post front-page stories in PRSI. Too late now.

If front page stories have a PRSI subject matter then they have to be posted there.

Main point: increased posts from the front page brought in a lot of people, and a change to heavy moderation removed most of the original posters, making the place the way it is now. I don't see PRSI in its current form lasting much longer. It was great. Too bad.

I don't really agree it's down to the front page stories, it's always been pretty bad in there and the current political situation you have in the USA has made it a lot worse.

 

[samiwas]

If front page stories have a PRSI subject matter then they have to be posted there.

And that's what drags in a lot of outside posters who don't generally adhere to the typical PRSI.

I don't really agree it's down to the front page stories, it's always been pretty bad in there and the current political situation you have in the USA has made it a lot worse.

I pretty much only visit PRSI on MacRumors. Have been for over 8 years. It is decidedly different now than it used to be. Started to get far worse about three years ago, and got way worse during the election when so many stories were getting posted there from the front page. Obviously my opinion.

 

[bopajuice]

That would fix the dumpster fire known as the PRSI. I've said this many times, I don't see the need for a political forum at a technology fan sight.

Not to mention many who post in PRSI only post in PRSI. If you look at some of the profiles thats all they do. Many never post anything about Apple, technology or even computers in general.
[doublepost=1520294772][/doublepost]

The probable reason there are so many that mainly use the PRSI forum is that many have been banned from other political / societal based forums due to their constant verbal abuse of other guests, and continual disregard of forum rules.

I have read numerous posts by the MR staff about how said forum is, and has a been a constant source of problems and increased workload for the staff. In my opinion, there is really no excuse for a forum to be such a continual source of problems and increased workload for the staff, outside of the powers that be on MR allowing such to happen.

One of the reasons that said forum has been such a problem over the years, is due to the 'freestyle' type atmosphere that has been initiated by the higher up powers that be. And this atmosphere (such as it is) has mutated time and time again, due to the changes to forum policy, as to how much will be allowed.

In my opinion, the problems that afflict the PRSI forum can easily be corrected by using one or more of the following options.

1) Remove the forum.

I understand that the PRSI forum is a source (to whatever degree) of ad revenue for Arn et al. At the same time, I don't believe it generates the amount of revenue for the site that the rest of the tech-based forums (in their entirety) generate. In that light, what meaningful reason is there to continue the PRSI forum in its current atmosphere?

I don't think it is right to put a continued workload from the forum on the current mod staff, especially when they are giving of their time without financial compensation.

2) Raise the intellectual bar of the forum

If Arn et al want the forum to stay, then the powers that be need to raise the intellectual bar of the forum by creating a tightly moderated forum where insults, attacks, trolling of other problems in said forum will not be tolerated. Anyone found guilty of such by the mod staff will receive a 30-day suspension from all of MacRumors. Anyone found guilty of a second offense in said forum is permanently banned from MacRumors.

In regards to the remodeling of the forum, keep the number of rules short and simple to understand. This lessens the likelihood of a forum member claiming he or she did not understand what a particular rule meant.

If the forum is kept, I believe there should be specific moderators assigned to the forum. I suggest adding 2 new moderators to the staff for this purpose. This will free up Mike, Weasel, Oily, and the other moderators to help carry the load on the tech forums, thus allowing them to have more of a positive interaction with the forum members outside of moderator related posts. The mods are very knowledgeable when it comes to Apple and tech gadgets in general. Their posts are very helpful in this regard.

If the current setup means that the mod staff has to spend most of their time cleaning up trash instead of using the site like the rest of us, I think that that is a detriment to the forum long term. I also think that it can also lead to unnecessary frustration and mental burnout for the mods.

In my opinion, if a person cannot rightfully discuss and debate a topic without continually and purposefully insulting other guests by the use of ad hominem attacks, and other attempts to skirt forum rules, such a person has no business in said forum, much less MacRumors. Those who want to have real discussion and debate will make a point (in quick fashion) to make sure that they are above board with their posting. Those who don't really care, will be weeded out in short fashion. Others will take note and the forum will change into a higher caliber discussion and debate forum.

This is a well-known forum and respected business. As such, I don't think the caliber of the forum and business is aided by the PRSI forum in its current state.

In my opinion, Arn et al need to address this situation immediately, (whatever option is decided). Otherwise, this unnecessary problem will continue to get worse creating more of a negative impact for stafff, members and onlookers.

Seems reasonable. I had started a thread a while back suggesting an end to the PRSI section, and was met with the hostile response PRSI is known for. My situation is like others have mentioned. I start off browsing the "new posts" and will come across a thread title that I just can't resist clicking. More often then not it is politically charged and often times the title is click bait.

I have learned two things. Resist my urge to click on a link I know will irritate me, and second, some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing. I feel arguing on PRSI is a hobby for some. It's pretty obvious they are not there to learn or discuss, or get perspective. It's all about affirmation. Personally, I feel PRSI should be separated from the main feed. Reason being is many visit PRSI and only PRSI so there is no need for them to go through Apple or computer related topics. They are not interested.

I remember subscribing to NPR and browsing a comment forum on their website. It was pretty heated. Interesting thing was many with conservative views would frequent the forum and complain that NPR was a left leaning site. It was baffling to me they would spend so much time arguing conservative points of view on a left leaning site. To me arguing for the sake of arguing is a waste of time. NPR ended up getting rid of the forum completely. to me it was kind of like coming to MR, to put down Apple.

 

[Scepticalscribe]

It was suggested that it read "Temporarily in the Pit of Misery" but that was too long

"Gone Fishing" is what I would suggest.

Every time I see it I get the feeling that whoever reported them get a sense of vindication.

Sometimes, they don't need to be reported; what has been written speaks for itself.

 

[Plutonius]

So basically every post in the PRSI forum. If we went by those rules every last person who posted in there would be banned.

I don't find it so. People need to separate attacking the posters viewpoint from attacking the person. When you start attacking the person rather than the viewpoint, I imagine that you will be banned in short order.
[doublepost=1520362592][/doublepost]

And I beg to differ because the tech world, just like the sports world, does not exist - and cannot pretend to exist - in isolation from the real world where political and economic decisions (on the part of tech companies, governments and individuals) have an effect on the tech world.

To my mind, Apple's tax stances and outsourced labour policies are as important a topic and well worth exploring as the latest tech advance or innovation that Apple, or some other company, develops.

Moreover, decisions and inventions of the tech world are transforming our lives in ways not yet fully understood and it would be remiss on the part of governments and supranational bodies not to take steps to deal with this, and to ignore this feature of the discussion runs the risk of missing the bigger picture.

So true.

And it doesn't hurt that the PRSI helps drive clicks to the website .
[doublepost=1520362793][/doublepost]

A politically focused board is almost always going to attract only one side and I find echo chamber forums totally worthless.

So true. Almost all the posters are either from the left or right.
[doublepost=1520363411][/doublepost]

Personally, I feel PRSI should be separated from the main feed. Reason being is many visit PRSI and only PRSI so there is no need for them to go through Apple or computer related topics. They are not interested.

It would be interesting to see the site stats on what percentage of people are PRSI only. I would disagree with you in that I think that it's only a small percentage that do PRSI only.

I myself was about 50 / 50 until the site changed the recent comments sidebar on the main page (Removing the categories I was interested in). I'm probably over 90% PRSI now since I used to use the main page recent comments sidebar to navigate to the non-PRSI post.

 

[bopajuice]

I don't find it so. People need to separate attacking the posters viewpoint from attacking the person. When you start attacking the person rather than the viewpoint, I imagine that you will be banned in short order.
[doublepost=1520362592][/doublepost]

So true.

And it doesn't hurt that the PRSI helps drive clicks to the website .
[doublepost=1520362793][/doublepost]

So true. Almost all the posters are either from the left or right.
[doublepost=1520363411][/doublepost]

It would be interesting to see the site stats on what percentage of people are PRSI only. I would disagree with you in that I think that it's only a small percentage that do PRSI only.

I myself was about 50 / 50 until the site changed the recent comments sidebar on the main page (Removing the categories I was interested in). I'm probably over 90% PRSI now since I used to use the main page recent comments sidebar to navigate to the non-PRSI post.

Interesting points. I wonder how much PRSI contributes to MR's site traffic...

 

[samiwas]

Not to mention many who post in PRSI only post in PRSI. If you look at some of the profiles thats all they do. Many never post anything about Apple, technology or even computers in general.

I used to browse the forums more widely. But, then I just got bored with it. I mean, how much can I really talk about a phone or a laptop? And when I was told I was absolutely ridiculous for even wanting a touchscreen iMac, I realized that talking with Apple fanboys is just about as bad as talking in PRSI.

But, I am one of those who almost never goes to the rest of the forum.

Personally, I feel PRSI should be separated from the main feed. Reason being is many visit PRSI and only PRSI so there is no need for them to go through Apple or computer related topics. They are not interested.

I think that's perfectly reasonable.

 

[dukebound85]

I like the prsi. It allows for one site to discuss a whole range of topics. I find myself viewing prsi more and more

 

[Scepticalscribe]

I used to browse the forums more widely. But, then I just got bored with it. I mean, how much can I really talk about a phone or a laptop? And when I was told I was absolutely ridiculous for even wanting a touchscreen iMac, I realized that talking with Apple fanboys is just about as bad as talking in PRSI.

....

Agreed.

For those who make the argument that this is a tech forum and that one should confine one's topic of discussion to tech matters, I have to say that I find the sometimes perfervid passion (accompanied, sometimes, by a breathtaking, judgmental intolerance not to mention occasional downright rudeness) of some of the posts in some of the tech parts of the forum quite off-putting.

Paradoxically, I can take passion and bad-manners in political debates more readily than I can tolerate it in a discussion about iPhones; I can understand (if not agree with) why people become passionate about politics but the wild fury of someone who feels his (and it is usually a "his") carefully constructed sense of identity is under attack because someone has questioned his choice of phone, leaves me baffled, bewildered and more than a little uneasy.

Whatever about the political section of the forum being unwelcoming, I have to say that a quick peek has revealed that some of the more specialised tech sections (yes, I'm looking at you, iPhone section) display symptoms of a distressingly permanently high temperature.

 

[TheAppleFairy]

I still find it difficult to understand why people who's main interest is politics come to a tech site for their daily fix.

Because once we get our daily tech news or answer we sought there is no reason to stay on the site.

What percentage of traffic in this forum is PRSI? My guess is that it's the most active section.
[doublepost=1520552909][/doublepost]Where does Arn stand on the PRSI section? I imagine he would prefer to keep it open if it has a lot of traffic.....though with half of the people who visit it have been banned maybe it's slowed down ad revenue. Once S.C. gets banned that will cut down 70% of the new threads there lol.

 

[Glockworkorange]

And I beg to differ because the tech world, just like the sports world, does not exist - and cannot pretend to exist - in isolation from the real world where political and economic decisions (on the part of tech companies, governments and individuals) have an effect on the tech world.

To my mind, Apple's tax stances and outsourced labour policies are as important a topic and well worth exploring as the latest tech advance or innovation that Apple, or some other company, develops.

Moreover, decisions and inventions of the tech world are transforming our lives in ways not yet fully understood and it would be remiss on the part of governments and supranational bodies not to take steps to deal with this, and to ignore this feature of the discussion runs the risk of missing the bigger picture.

I agree. Many of the Apple issues are inherently political, such as taxes and privacy.

 

[MacNut]

It is hard to have a reasoned argument when Trump is involved. The political forum is not the same as it was 15 years ago. Every topic has become polarized and it seems that having an anti trump view is prohibited now. Either don’t have any moderation in the political forums or actually ban the offenders who post conspiracy theory’s and fake news as fact. Don’t go after the truth tellers.

 

[MacDawg]

It is hard to have a reasoned argument when Trump is involved. The political forum is not the same as it was 15 years ago. Every topic has become polarized and it seems that having an anti trump view is prohibited now. Either don’t have any moderation in the political forums or actually ban the offenders who post conspiracy theory’s and fake news as fact. Don’t go after the truth tellers.

Problem is, both sides believe they are absolutely 100% the truth tellers, in the right and the other side is spewing the fake news, conspiracy theories, etc.
Who determines which side is right? The USofA (and the world) is split on that, so it isn't surprising the PRSI is as well.

I avoid the PRSI like the plague, but I believe both sides will claim they are the truth tellers, and they are the ones being persecuted, over moderated and marginalized.

In my previous life years ago, I was a school administrator
On one particular day I had 7 students seated outside my office, all from the same class
I called them in each one at a time
Every one of them swore they were being picked on in class by the teacher
And they swore they were the ONLY one being singled out
7 of them
All of them as the only ones

I learned a very valuable lesson about perspective that day

 

[MacNut]

Problem is, both sides believe they are absolutely 100% the truth tellers, in the right and the other side is spewing the fake news, conspiracy theories, etc.
Who determines which side is right? The USofA (and the world) is split on that, so it isn't surprising the PRSI is as well.

I avoid the PRSI like the plague, but I believe both sides will claim they are the truth tellers, and they are the ones being persecuted, over moderated and marginalized.

In my previous life years ago, I was a school administrator
On one particular day I had 7 students seated outside my office, all from the same class
I called them in each one at a time
Every one of them swore they were being picked on in class by the teacher
And they swore they were the ONLY one being singled out
7 of them
All of them as the only ones

I learned a very valuable lesson about perspective that day

Claims that can’t be backed up with facts and down right conspiracy theory’s are easy to disprove. I know fake news is easy to produce and people will fall for it but when it becomes a forum norm and once proven to be just click bait I think it should be dealt with.

 

[ericgtr12]

Problem is, both sides believe they are absolutely 100% the truth tellers, in the right and the other side is spewing the fake news, conspiracy theories, etc.
Who determines which side is right? The USofA (and the world) is split on that, so it isn't surprising the PRSI is as well.

I couldn't disagree more. For example, if one is quoted as saying "the sky is blue" right before our eyes on TV and in print, that is factual. If the opposing side then comes in and screams "fake news!" we can't simply dismiss it as "both sides have a point". It's up to us as both consumers and posters of the news to try to keep things factual, regardless of our personal opinions on it. I believe this breakdown is one of the reasons there's so much discord right now, not just in the PRSI forum.

 

[0388631]

One of the issues nowadays is this fake news rubbish. There is fake news, of course, but most of the time those who attack the news attack it because it doesn't conform to their liking or because it has bias. Though I think this practice is beginning to die out as those people keep getting ignored. The other problem being people who go off in the deepend and post conspiracy theories and bring up anything but the subject matter being discussed. Some people are also... stubborn, and come across as "baddies" (ignoring the T word here).

If you've ever run a large forum (talking about 800-2000 posts a day, with spurts into the high thousands), you'll know drama is good. It's always good. It can be good for revenue. Though at some point that drama gets too much and only causes problems. Gotta keep balance in there.

Also, facts, solid facts at that, are what determine the truth. Some people have allergies to facts.

 

[I7guy]

I couldn't disagree more. For example, if one is quoted as saying "the sky is blue" right before our eyes on TV and in print, that is factual. If the opposing side then comes in and screams "fake news!" we can't simply dismiss it as "both sides have a point". It's up to us as both consumers and posters of the news to try to keep things factual, regardless of our personal opinions on it. I believe this breakdown is one of the reasons there's so much discord right now, not just in the PRSI forum.

Which shade is the sky blue and which hue is prettier is the issue; it’s not akways facts, which can be proven, it’s the interpretation.

 

[MacNut]

What are the rules on hate speech. Is it covered in the new guidelines. If it is it’s definitely not being enforced. If it isn’t that’s a problem.

 

[I7guy]

What are the rules on hate speech. Is it covered in the new guidelines. If it is it’s definitely not being enforced. If it isn’t that’s a problem.

Can you link to a post that you could consider to be “hate speech”?

 

[Weaselboy]

Can you link to a post that you could consider to be “hate speech”?

Please don't do that. If one wants to discuss moderation (or lack thereof) of specific posts, it needs to be done using the contact us process.

It is okay to discuss concepts or issues in general here though.