From the administrators
User
Videomanmac used the Contact form to submit this complaint to us:
As much as I've heard that the moderation team bans conservative voices, I tried not to believe it. Turns out what I've heard is true.
In my comments in PSRI, I never bring race into a conversation, unless it's brought up. Apparently, it is okay to mention how blacks are sent to jail more often than whites due to "Trump's policy" , but the minute I mention a biological fact that blacks are more hostile than whites, I get banned for it.
The moderation is completely unfair and biased. All of the comments about blacks being targeted are still up:
https://forums.macrumors.com/goto/post?id=26175980#post-26175980
I recommend reversing this suspension and wiping it from my record.
Forum members who ask for a complete review of their moderation, which includes their moderation history, get a thorough and time-consuming review that we take seriously. We don't rush through these reviews or rubber-stamp moderation actions, and this one took longer than our average response time. We've followed this thread as well.
We're posting our response here because
Videomanmac has waived the right to moderation privacy and brought up the concerns in this way.
Videomanmac,
Over the past week, the administrators reviewed your complaints, studied the recent and past moderation actions on your account, and interviewed the moderators. Here is our analysis.
As you no doubt know, moderation is based on the forum rules, the posts under consideration, and each individual's moderation history.
Here is your moderation history, a mixture of minor and major problems:
- Oct 21, 2016 Reminder for post disallowed outside of Marketplace forum.
- Jan 26, 2018 Reminder for one-word post.
- Jun 14, 2018 Reminder for duplicate post in PRSI.
- Jun 21, 2018 Reminder for trolling in PRSI.
- Jun 22, 2018 Two-day suspension for trolling (racist group slur) in PRSI.
- Jun 25, 2018 Reminder for off-topic comment in a news thread.
- Jun 30, 2018 Four days for trolling in PRSI.
- Jun 30, 2018 Racist trolling in PRSI. The post was simply removed since your account was already suspended.
- Jul 01, 2018 Lost PRSI access after "three strikes."
- Jul 04, 2018 Reminder for off-topic post about moderation in a Site and Forum Feedback thread.
- Jul 04, 2018 Second reminder for off-topic post about moderation in the same thread.
- Jul 07, 2018 Reminder for multiple PRSI posts outside of PRSI
- Jul 08, 2018 Another reminder for PRSI posts outside of PRSI
You said:
As much as I've heard that the moderation team bans conservative voices, I tried not to believe it. Turns out what I've heard is true.
Users are moderated when they break the rules and we either see the problems in the course of our own browsing, or they are brought to our attention. If a conservative breaks the rules, then yes, the conservative is moderated. The same happens to moderates and liberals. We don't base any decisions on political views. Moderated conservatives tell us that we target conservatives. Moderated liberals tell us that we target liberals. We understand that this is a natural reaction, but it's not the case. One of the tasks of the administrators is to ensure that moderation is fair by observing the moderator's actions, providing them with guidance, and reviewing their decisions when requested by the moderators or by users. Also, the moderators work as a team, so no single moderator could get away with making suspensions based on personal bias. Finally, we provide the forum as a place for discussions of differing political opinions. If we purposely suppressed one opinion in favor of another, then why allow the discussions at all? (Extreme cases like hate speech are an exception, since we don't choose to be a host for such posts.) Instead of choosing sides, we insist only that opinions be expressed in accordance with the rules.
You said:
In my comments in PSRI, I never bring race into a conversation, unless it's brought up.
Bringing up race is fine if it's done within the rules. Making racist comments is not fine. And whether or not another user brings up race has no bearing whatsoever on your own comments. Each user is responsible for their own posts.
You said:
Apparently, it is okay to mention how blacks are sent to jail more often than whites due to "Trump's policy", but the minute I mention a biological fact that blacks are more hostile than whites, I get banned for it.
You are correct. The first comment is a statistic that can be proven or disproven. The second is a racist claim that breaks the forum rules. Whether or not you're suspended or lose access to PRSI for such a statement has to do with your moderation history.
You said:
Moderation is completely unfair and biased. All of the comments about blacks being targeted are still up: https://forums.macrumors.com/goto/post?id=26175980#post-26175980
Perhaps you're referring to this comment? - "Especially if you’re black it seems."
If you look at the post in context, we find it clear that the user is referring to the perception or belief that black people are wrongfully arrested/convicted more than non-black people. This is a matter of statistics, and can be proven or disproven. It has nothing to do with black people themselves, and is therefore not a derogatory statement about black people.
You said:
I recommend reversing this suspension and wiping it from my record.
After discussion, the administrators decided that one moderation action was less serious than the original judgement. This was your June 20 post in the "Trump signs executive order keeping families together" thread that said
Telling a user to shut up falls under the rule prohibiting personal insults (that phrase is specifically mentioned in the rules) so the moderators removed the first sentence, leaving the rest of the post intact. However, on review, the administrators decided that it didn't constitute a strike under the three-strikes PRSI policy because the comment was directed at everyone (on one side of the argument), not at one specific forum member, and there was also a point to it -- that the argument had become moot because of the president's action.
The reversal of this strike would have meant you were one strike short of losing PRSI access, however there was an additional violation made on the same day as the "Why would I read anything but fox news" post, where you commented:
"So it’s he system’s fault that mintorities are dumb? Not even close! Everyone has equal opportunity in America."
In the first sentence, you make it quite clear that you feel minorities are dumb, a racist slur that is disallowed on this site. You didn't receive a separate notice about it since the comment was reported after your suspension earlier that day. The moderator simply removed the comment, and documented the problem in the forum records. The outcome would have been the same if the posts had been moderated in the other order or if the "shut up" post had not been moderated.
You've mentioned more than once that you want to know where in the rules it says you have to watch other news sources than Fox. This is a straw man claim since nobody claimed that there was such a rule. The thread's subject was a PRSI discussion about Trump's tariffs on Canadian goods. A member linked an article on the subject, and you resplied with "Ha, I’d like to see the weak Canadians try it! We will own Canada if they do that!". The other member responded, "Wow. It’s like you didn’t even read the article." You then replied, "Why would I read anything but fox news?". It does appear to us, as it did to other members, that you were ignoring the article and instead making sarcastic comments to provoke others. That's trolling.
A few posts down you continue: "Time to show Canada who’s boss. Either they bow down to us or we invade." More trolling, in the opinion of the moderators, and the administrators agree.
In this thread you also make the following claim:
And so far only the moderators have chimed in their opinions, the admins have not came in here yet. So far, the moderators actions have gone unchecked and unbalanced.
Moderator discussions and moderation are always visible to the administrators, and the moderators and administrators communicate continually. There is no basis for the claim that "actions have gone unchecked and unbalanced."
In conclusion, we find that the three-strikes PRSI suspension was warranted. To sum up: Here are the three comments that explain your loss of PRSI access:
1. Posted June 21 in the thread "Canada just officially passed its law to legalize weed"
"Blacks are found to be more hostile than whites, if you want to bring race into this."
2. Posted June 29 in the thread "Who is losing out from Trump's tariffs?"
"Why would I read anything but fox news?"
3. Posted June 29 in the thread "Can white people experience racism?"
"So it’s he system’s fault that mintorities are dumb? Not even close! Everyone has equal opportunity in America."
