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Taustin Powers

macrumors 6502
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Apr 5, 2005
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There are some persistent rumors that Sony will release an upgraded PS4 version with 4k capabilities soon.

While I am not opposed to the idea myself, I am wondering if there is any possible way Sony could pull this off without alienating and splitting their PS4 user base. Perhaps if all future games automatically scale to the given system, and provide 1080p for old PS4s and 4k for the new version? Full cross compatibility would be a must, I think. But would devs be happy about the extra work of providing two different resolution outputs depending on the system? Would games run slower on the old models? And would users who just bought a PS4 be happy that their console just became outdated? Maybe Sony can offer some kind of trade-in / upgrade plan for existing users.

I guess if they do it smart, it could work, but it's quite a gamble. Really curious to see how this plays out.
 

apolloa

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Oct 21, 2008
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Time, because it rules EVERYTHING!
No, they will not be launching a console that can play native 4K games, it would be literally impossible for the current tech at the consoles price point and physical size. If you want a nice PC that can run 4K at 60FPS it is still going to be expensive, require some majorly powerful components and some serious cooling.

The only thing a 4K PS4 will do is stream 4K video content, play 4K Blue Ray's and have the latest HDMI specification, it will POSSIBLY upscale games to 4K but that seems pointless to me. And why would Sony want to bring out a brand new console after only 2 years, devs are not going to ignore the millions and millions of PS4 gamers out there as a sales market.

Hence why no, they are not making a console that will play native 4K games.

Personally I think the whole rumour is BS and people are putting two and two together and getting one, because the new Sony VR headset comes with a box you have to plug into your PS4 to boost it's power so it can run the VR headset, and I think that's where this 4K rumour thing has come from.
 

gkarris

macrumors G3
Dec 31, 2004
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"No escape from Reality...”
No, they will not be launching a console that can play native 4K games, it would be literally impossible for the current tech at the consoles price point and physical size. If you want a nice PC that can run 4K at 60FPS it is still going to be expensive, require some majorly powerful components and some serious cooling.

The only thing a 4K PS4 will do is stream 4K video content, play 4K Blue Ray's and have the latest HDMI specification, it will POSSIBLY upscale games to 4K but that seems pointless to me. And why would Sony want to bring out a brand new console after only 2 years, devs are not going to ignore the millions and millions of PS4 gamers out there as a sales market.

Hence why no, they are not making a console that will play native 4K games.

Personally I think the whole rumour is BS and people are putting two and two together and getting one, because the new Sony VR headset comes with a box you have to plug into your PS4 to boost it's power so it can run the VR headset, and I think that's where this 4K rumour thing has come from.

This....

Sony made DVD's popular with the PS2, HD Blu-Ray with the PS3, and will make UHD 4K Blu-Ray movies poplur with the PS 4K...

4K games - I don't think so... not until the PS5...
 
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0098386

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I can see SOME games running up to 4K, but those will be games with less complex visuals. We won't be seeing GTA on it, for example!

My PS4K guess is just smoother games all round, some developers may go back and patch their games to increase framerate or resolution. Smoother VR, strong marketing push for 4K video, no "exclusive" 4K games. If you look at it from Sony's POV all they need to do is a bit of R&D and slightly raised production cost for the ability to sell a 'new' PS4 at the original price point. If it replaces the Slim model by actually adding function - I'd be all for this.
 

Taustin Powers

macrumors 6502
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Apr 5, 2005
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I think identical gaming performance across all models, but improved video streaming capabilities on the PS4k seems like the most plausible (and sensible) scenario. Otherwise we would eventually run into games that are optimized for the PS4k and show inferior performance on the regular PS4. Users would hate that.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
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Hong Kong
Tends to agree 4K game is impossible on PS4 in nowadays technology.

PS5 sure is not a problem. AMD already release the info about the next console. 5x stronger than the correct generation. That's what we really need for 4K games. 4K game is not just about how many pixel, but how many polygon the console can handle as well. Only one polygon in 4K is meaningless. On the other hand, if a console can handle 10x more polygon, but only able to display at 1080p, you can still see a huge difference in graphic quality.

There is no way that Sony can make a 4K console with reasonable cost. They sell the PS4 for cheap because they willing to lost money on hardware but get them back from the software. PS4K? Further lost more money on hardware? Or sell it at high price which make gamers angry? Just can't see hows that possible.

On the other hand, just a console has the ability to play 4K H.265 movie make some sense at this stage.
 

0098386

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h9826790

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BenTrovato

macrumors 68040
Jun 29, 2012
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Coming out with a new 4k console mid-cycle is a lose-lose, especially for current consumers.

They have VR coming out and remote play. These are big features. I would hold off on 4k and introduce PS 5k or 8k in the next gen console.
 

gkarris

macrumors G3
Dec 31, 2004
8,301
1,061
"No escape from Reality...”
Coming out with a new 4k console mid-cycle is a lose-lose, especially for current consumers.

They have VR coming out and remote play. These are big features. I would hold off on 4k and introduce PS 5k or 8k in the next gen console.

Sony Pictures has an interest in delivering 4K Movies to homes so the sooner people adopt 4K UHD Discs and streaming/download content and introduce a unit that plays the media, the more money for them...
 
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Taustin Powers

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 5, 2005
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550
The plot thickens...

Starting in October, every PS4 game is required to ship with both a “Base Mode” which will run on the currently available PS4 and a “NEO Mode” for use on the new console.

Games running in NEO mode will be able to use the hardware upgrades (and an additional 512 MiB in the memory budget) to offer increased and more stable frame rate and higher visual fidelity, at least when those games run at 1080p on HDTVs. The NEO will also support 4K image output, but games themselves are not required to be 4K native.

In the documents we’ve received, Sony offers suggestions for reaching 4K/UltraHD resolutions for NEO mode game builds, but they're also giving developers a degree of freedom with how to approach this. 4K TV owners should expect the NEO to upscale games to fit the format, but one place Sony is unwilling to bend is on frame rate. Throughout the documents, Sony repeatedly reminds developers that the frame rate of games in NEO Mode must meet or exceed the frame rate of the game on the original PS4 system.

The NEO will not supplant the current PS4, but will exist alongside of it and use the same user environment. The PS4 and NEO will use the same PSN store, connect to the same online communities, and offer the same user experience, so expect to see the same cross media bar that you’re used to. Players will be able to retain all of the purchases they made on the PS4.

Sony seems committed to keeping the NEO and the original PS4 player bases connected. As such, there will be no NEO-only games, and Sony will not let developers separate NEO users from original PS4 players while playing on PSN. Likewise, Sony explicitly and repeatedly states that developers cannot offer exclusive gameplay options or special unlockables for NEO players—so don’t expect NEO owners to get a level editor or a special Rocket League car that you won’t have access to on your original PS4. That said, so long as both systems have the same feature, the NEO can run an improved version. A local co-op game that features four players on the base PS4 could offer an eight player co-op mode on the NEO, for instance. But again, don't expect those differences to transfer to online modes.

...

Games released previous to the NEO can take advantage of this hardware upgrade, but only if developers decide to patch their titles.

http://www.giantbomb.com/articles/sources-the-upgraded-playstation-4-is-codenamed-ne/1100-5437/

My worry is that newer games will be optimized to run best in NEO mode and offer sub-par performance on "normal" PS4s.

Overall, I am intrigued...and I would probably buy it. ;)
 

0098386

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Such a shame that older 3DS games weren't updated to make use of the New 3DS's abilities. A game where Pokemon could be completely 3D and Animal Crossing didn't have those slow load times. Ahh. I'll probably get a NEO. I think my PS4's bluray drive is on its way out so it might get relegated to a bedroom/download-only console.
 

Taustin Powers

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Apr 5, 2005
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I've been using my 20 year anniversary edition that I won for the past year. I could sell that, buy a NEO and a new camera (for VR), and still have plenty of cash left over. I really like the design and the fact that it's a collector's item, but the fans get way too loud for my taste. If the NEO is much quieter, I might have to go down that road.
 

h9826790

macrumors P6
Apr 3, 2014
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I've been using my 20 year anniversary edition that I won for the past year. I could sell that, buy a NEO and a new camera (for VR), and still have plenty of cash left over. I really like the design and the fact that it's a collector's item, but the fans get way too loud for my taste. If the NEO is much quieter, I might have to go down that road.

1000% agree, that's the biggest reason why I will always choose XB1 if the same game avail on both platforms, the fan is way too noisy when under stress.

Elite controller is another reason, that's a much better controller IMO.

System design is the 3rd one. I prefer the XB1 dashboard more than the PS4, when there are lots of download games on the PS4, it's takes quite a bit of time to scroll and find the game.
 

0098386

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1000% agree, that's the biggest reason why I will always choose XB1 if the same game avail on both platforms, the fan is way too noisy when under stress.
The fans are really loud on mine but only on certain games. On less-stressful games it remains quiet, even on loading screens on Star Wars the fans go quiet. That said I play quite loud anyways, or if not I'm playing in a different room using Remote Play on the Vita.
 

itsOver9000

macrumors 6502
Mar 29, 2013
374
329
B.F., KS
My worry is that newer games will be optimized to run best in NEO mode and offer sub-par performance on "normal" PS4s.

Overall, I am intrigued...and I would probably buy it. ;)


I'm not intrigued. If this is true it ruins a consoles best selling point for me - convenience. I shouldn't have to worry about how well my PS4 game should run, it should "just work". For sure, in time, we'll see games running poorly on the "base" PS4 compared to the "neo" PS4. I'm not intrigued by a shorter console hardware cycle either. I've come to expect a console purchase to last me ~5+ years of trouble free gaming. This "neo" could set the precedent for console hardware upgrades every 2-3 years. At that point why even bother with consoles? I'll just build myself a nice PC.
 

twietee

macrumors 603
Jan 24, 2012
5,300
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I'd probably buy one - depends on the price point. I want another BR-player for the other room and might as well get the PS4 if that price decreases even further then - dunno.

I can see how that move sucks, but it will depend on how they deal with it tbh. If they stay true to their word and every single game can be played on the PS4 - I think it's ok. Of course only if those versions are indeed playable - which will be up for discussion every single time. I doubt we'll see the 7-8 year console cycle ever again anyway. 3 years is a bit on the short side but that's what you get once there is no real competitor anymore.

If you worry about performance that much, consoles are the wrong medium to game anyway. Tech wise they've been an disappointment so far anyway. No stable 60fps, heck not even stable 30fps and no native 1080p output.
Consoles have the benefit of being easily accessible and that you just hook em up onto your telly and play from the couch, friends eventually and of course some exclusives that you can't play otherwise. Some time ago they also had the benefit that you could play the games you've purchased no matter how old the system or game was but that era is long gone either way.
 

twietee

macrumors 603
Jan 24, 2012
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The only PS4 game I own that aren't 1080p is (maybe?) Destiny and (definitely) Star Wars Battlefront.

Are they native though? I don't own any consoles but the Wii U but read/loosely follow some gaming sites or forum and I thought a lot of their games are upscaled. PS4 always a notch better than the X1. That's why teh 4K moniker is a bit ridiculous since they should start thinking about that once 1080p with 60fps are the norm. But whatever, I don't really care. edit: that goes for mostly AAA / high profile games.


Btw. glad you like Battlefront. I had a good time but somehow stopped playing. Have yet to even see the DLC (got the ultimate edition). It's a dying game on PC unfortunately.
 

0098386

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Are they native though? I don't own any consoles but the Wii U but read/loosely follow some gaming sites or forum and I thought a lot of their games are upscaled. PS4 always a notch better than the X1. That's why teh 4K moniker is a bit ridiculous since they should start thinking about that once 1080p with 60fps are the norm. But whatever, I don't really care. edit: that goes for mostly AAA / high profile games.


Btw. glad you like Battlefront. I had a good time but somehow stopped playing. Have yet to even see the DLC (got the ultimate edition). It's a dying game on PC unfortunately.
Very few games are upscaled (though I hate word misleading. Every image on a TV is scaled up or down unless native) but I guess it's nicer than what I call it... non-native resolution. heh. 1080p is pretty much standard on PS4 at this point, it's just framerate that changes between titles. There are fewer 1080p native games on Xbox One though. And I don't know about the Wii U... Smash Bros is 1080p but I think Nintendo's other titles are 720.
 

richwoodrocket

macrumors 68020
Apr 7, 2014
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Buffalo, NY
There's no way consoles will have 4K anytime soon. It's simply impossible to make a console that can handle 4K games at the console price point.
 

0098386

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Jan 18, 2005
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There's no way consoles will have 4K anytime soon. It's simply impossible to make a console that can handle 4K games at the console price point.
Well no it depends on the game. GTA won't be 4K of course but games that are less demanding could run just fine. I think games that currently run at 1080p60 in 3D, like Zen Pinball, might be 4K. Geometry Wars could be another. But yeah I think it's going to be indie games making the most of 4K this generation.
 

iosuser

macrumors 65816
Mar 12, 2012
1,003
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Give that one needs a GTX980 Ti to do 4K with decent frame rate, I have serious doubt that a "PS4k" can do it, given the seemingly minor spec bump from what is being speculated. I'll be happy if they can consistently do 1080p at 60fps.

I also think if they do this, it might alienate some of the existing owners. I will upgrade only if 4K Bluray playback is included. It's probably a bad move to have such a short life cycle on a console. This may well be the last gen of dedicated gaming console.
 

MRU

macrumors Penryn
Aug 23, 2005
25,368
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a better place
I'll likely end up buying one ... begrudgingly. However I hope they have a way of transferring our downloaded games to the new machine. I have hundreds of gigabytes of games downloaded that I DO NOT want to have to re-install from scratch again. That would be the biggest hurdle when it comes to me buying one.

Also I just assume the extra horse power will end up just 'upscaling' 1080p games to 4k rather than actually being natively 4k. Just like when we went fro SD to HD initially, a lot of content was merely upscaled by hardware.
 
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