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Well, as I said, no one is listening to each other. I see more of the same nonsensical replies about things like Mercedes oil filters versus Porsche, when no one is stopping Mercedes from selling Porsche oil filters just like a company like Fram makes filters for any hardware they want to. No one was trying to stop Apple from offering Windows support in the past on their hardware, so that argument is absurd, etc. etc.

Okay?

Arguments put forth like the idea of Toyota possibly requiring service by Toyota only for their cars in the buyers contract go ignored (because it points to the absurdity of Apple simply being able to write in their OS X Eula that you aren't allowed to buy anyone else's hardware if you want to use OS X)

Your Toyota argument wasn't ignored. It was addressed by two different posters. As I said in the earlier post, Toyota could ask you to sign a contract limiting you service from Toyota in exchange for a lower price. In fact, most companies require "certified" maintenance to maintain the warranty. Guess who gets a cut of the certification. If you don't like the contract term, buy something else.

or similar situations that have already been ruled illegal (like trying to force people to buy cereal in order to enter into a sweepstakes or other contest). Tying is not allowed there regardless of status (those cereal companies are NOT Monopolies).

Your cereal example has to do with gambling regulations, not tying.

Frankly, I realize I'm dealing with fanatics here who believe Apple is always right no matter what the issue or what the laws are. Steve Jobs and company can do no wrong and they're always right and everyone should worship them. That's pretty much the basis for most arguments on these forums regarding Apple Vs. Anyone Else and most of you know that is a true statement. All non-Apple products SUCK (especially ones from Microsoft) before you ever even see them and when someone sues Apple on patent infringement, they're the BAD GUY and called things like patent squatters, but when Apple does the SAME THING, they're righteous to DEFEND THEIR INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY!!! The sheer double-standard HYPOCRISY of it all makes me want to throw up. I think it's high time I unsubscribed from this pointless thread.

And then when the rest of the arguments fail, simply call everyone who disagrees a fanboy.
 
Well, as I said, no one is listening to each other. I see more of the same nonsensical replies about things...

...

The sheer double-standard HYPOCRISY of it all makes me want to throw up.
You don't listen to the other side (mostly because I think you just plain disagree with them) and then you accuse them of hypocrisy? That, too, is hypocrisy.
 
Well, as I said, no one is listening to each other. I see more of the same nonsensical replies about things like Mercedes oil filters versus Porsche, when no one is stopping Mercedes from selling Porsche oil filters just like a company like Fram makes filters for any hardware they want to.

Nice way to try to retroactively redefine the debate point.

The MB oil filter that won't fit on a Porsche is a direct analogy to Mac OS software not "fitting" onto a Windows OS machine. Thus, you have to throw away your Mac OS Oil Filter and go buy a Genuine Windows Oil Filter when you change brands.

No one was trying to stop Apple from offering Windows support in the past on their hardware...

Least of all Microsoft.

Think about it: its their IP and they could have placed greater controls on its use (eg, "Only Certified Hardware Vendors") if they wanted to...but they chose not to.

Why?

Why did they make that choice?

Was it simply a business decision that said that "quantity" (sales) was a higher priority than delivering a "quality" product?

They had the legal right...but why did they not exercise it?


Frankly, I realize I'm dealing with fanatics here who believe Apple is always right no matter what the issue or what the laws are....I think it's high time I unsubscribed from this pointless thread.

Bye-Bye.
You're free to believe what you wish...even when you're wrong.


-hh
 
The MB oil filter that won't fit on a Porsche is a direct analogy to Mac OS software not "fitting" onto a Windows OS machine. Thus, you have to throw away your Mac OS Oil Filter and go buy a Genuine Windows Oil Filter when you change brands.
Or you make an adapter plate to retro fit it. ;)

All these analogies are poor examples (this oil filter one is the worst yet).

The world is not black and white.
 
Or you make an adapter plate to retro fit it. ;)

Also known as "Boot Camp". :cool:

All these analogies are poor examples (this oil filter one is the worst yet).

The world is not black and white.

Analogies merely are a tool that helps some people see the point in a new light; they're never perfect. And the 'black and white' of the world here is that 'Magnus' isn't really complaining about how Capitalism and IP rules works. IMO, Magnus's complaint is simple: he's not happy that Macs are "Expensive".

The problem is that the only thing that will ever make him happy is a sufficiently cheap Mac. When he was told that he can't have what he wants, he rejected it childishly with a temper tantrum that has irrationally not listened to reasonings.

Hey, I don't like the fact that Macs aren't super-cheap either.
But I find out why, decide, and then move on with my life.


-hh
 
Analogies merely are a tool that helps some people see the point in a new light; they're never perfect.

Agreed. I hate hearing the whole "analogies about this and that are not comparable" nonsense. Yes there are bad analogies, but your rarely, if ever, going to find one that has a 1:1 correlation exactly. You can only get very close.

I think the best analogy in this case is the business model of Pro Tools. The company ties and requires that you use their hardware with their software. Not only is this perfectly legal, its a great example of a company linking their hardware and software together, yet being able to distribute their software separately (as an update only of course - you still have to prove you bought the hardware.).

And the 'black and white' of the world here is that 'Magnus' isn't really complaining about how Capitalism and IP rules works. IMO, Magnus's complaint is simple: he's not happy that Macs are "Expensive".

The hackintosh fans breaks down into three parties.
1) People who believe/think of/hate that the Mac hardware as overpriced. Very common and in some case understandable.
2) People who dislike the hardware and want it in a different case or form factor for upgradability. This would also include people that want a mid range tower or more hardware choices from Apple. Again partially true, but at the end of the day just not a viable model to duplicate the Microsoft business model. For the record, yes the hardware line is a bit thin, but thats Apple's decision and not ours.
3) People who have a lack of understanding about contract law, monopolies, anti-trust, tying, legality of licencisng, copyrights, IP law, patents, trademarks, history of Apple and the computer industry, history of relevant case law, and so on. The worst. These guys don't want to play by the rules because they think that the rules do not apply to them or that Apple is guilty of some fictitious crime. they tend to use examples 1 and 2 to justify their actions. Remember Clive at 5? He was notorious along with Magnus on insisting that Apple was guilty of some kind of monopoly and tying and refused to listen to logic. They tend to make outright incorrect claims and use bad analogies to explain them.

The problem is that the only thing that will ever make him happy is a sufficiently cheap Mac. When he was told that he can't have what he wants, he rejected it childishly with a temper tantrum that has irrationally not listened to reasoning's.

I think that, like many Mac people, they tend to get emotional about a good product. I think that Magnus (and the other people who make similar arguments) really likes the Mac operating system. I really do. They just want the kit at a lower price and think that it (like the rest or the PC industry) should be cheap. They do not understand that its just not the way things work. They, as Adam Savage famously said, want to "reject your reality and substitute my own"

Hey, I don't like the fact that Macs aren't super-cheap either.
But I find out why, decide, and then move on with my life.
Exactly. I don't very much like the price of Macs either just as I don't really like the high prices of most cars. However, just like BMW not being the only car company around, or McDonalds not being the only hamburger joint in town, Apple is not the sole supplier of computers by a long shot. I made an informed decision about buying my Mac and I don't regret it. Sure it wasn't cheap, but I don't regret not buying a $500 Dell like my parents wanted me to get.
 
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