There are a lot of people out there with older systems. I was using my 2008 MacBook Pro until it died in 2018. If you're going to push a lot of updates out, don't assume that all of the Windows users out there have access to GB Ethernet, SSDs, 16 GB of RAM and a vertically integrated system. There are many places in the world, even in the US, where internet access isn't available (article in the WSJ yesterday about this). Most of my state doesn't have access to high-speed broadband. Lots of areas are lucky to get 750kbps to 3 mbps DSL.
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Pull the trigger / abandon ship / wait it out
- Thread starter WinstonRumfoord
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
There are a lot of people out there with older systems. I was using my 2008 MacBook Pro until it died in 2018. If you're going to push a lot of updates out, don't assume that all of the Windows users out there have access to GB Ethernet, SSDs, 16 GB of RAM and a vertically integrated system. There are many places in the world, even in the US, where internet access isn't available (article in the WSJ yesterday about this). Most of my state doesn't have access to high-speed broadband. Lots of areas are lucky to get 750kbps to 3 mbps DSL.
I would wait, the new redesigned 16” MacBook Pro is suppose to be later this year (according to reliable Ming Chi Kuo).
Personally I wouldn’t jump to Windows, I tried it with a Surface Pro 6 and regretted it ever since. I’m coming back to the MacBook fold very soon (I never really left Mac since I still use my 2012 iMac).
Personally I wouldn’t jump to Windows, I tried it with a Surface Pro 6 and regretted it ever since. I’m coming back to the MacBook fold very soon (I never really left Mac since I still use my 2012 iMac).
I'd wait to see what the 2019 models are like.
I'm assuming that switching to Windows will cost too much in terms of productivity and your own satisfaction (this is something only you can judge), which essentially leaves buy now or wait a few months for the 2019 iteration.
If you do wait, do temper your expectations. The mystical 16" is rumored to be delayed until 2021, which to me suggests no major redesign this year, only spec bumps. They may try once more to patch the horrible keyboard, and unfortunately we won't know how effective the patch is until months later. Still, the idea of getting better specs and (possibly) another refinement to the keyboard makes it worthwhile to wait a few more months, in my opinion.
I'm assuming that switching to Windows will cost too much in terms of productivity and your own satisfaction (this is something only you can judge), which essentially leaves buy now or wait a few months for the 2019 iteration.
If you do wait, do temper your expectations. The mystical 16" is rumored to be delayed until 2021, which to me suggests no major redesign this year, only spec bumps. They may try once more to patch the horrible keyboard, and unfortunately we won't know how effective the patch is until months later. Still, the idea of getting better specs and (possibly) another refinement to the keyboard makes it worthwhile to wait a few more months, in my opinion.
I've heard that the 16-17 inch MBP is in 2021 now. But a 2019 iMac would give me the CPU horsepower and RAM that I need so that I can just use my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros until 2021 or beyond if they don't fix the problems.
I wouldn't say Windows Update has gotten pretty good. I would say Windows Update has gotten more tolerable, but it still is a far cry from being pretty good. You still get updates taking a long time and you still get updates not being completely cumulative (meaning you may need to check for updates multiple times)...
Windows 10 has improved it a fair bit as many updates are cumulative.
Windows Updates aren't in the seconds. I have a beefy system and Windows Updates still can take 20+ minutes and my desktop is extremely high end.
i7-6700K
64GB RAM
512GB Samsung 940 Pro NVMe
Gigabyte Z170X Gaming G1
FiOS Gigabit
etc...
Maybe they apply updates in the background on Surface devices? I haven't used one to test, but Windows Update is still considered a mess by IT professionals such as myself.
Windows 10 is an unmitigated privacy disaster. Including the joy of Microsoft turning on data sharing options you've turned off during "feature updates".
I used Group Policy to kill Windows Update and disabled the service in Services.msc. I run manual updates when I feel like it. As Group Policy is only for Pro/Enterprise Windows. If using Windows 10 Home you'd need to use Regedit. There are methods to get Group Policy on the Home version of Windows 10.
I'd pull the trigger on a new Mac laptop. Yeah, some people have issues with the keyboard. Others swear it's the best keyboard they've every used. Bad reviews are always more prominent. For my money, or even my bosses money, no one makes better computers or a better OS than Apple.
I'd wait for June. Tech doesn't move quite as fast as it used to but it still moves enough year to year that I recommend waiting for updates if you're within 3 to 6 months of a potential update.
In spite of the keyboard reliability problem that I had (which was promptly fixed) I have been thoroughly impressed with my 15" MacBook Pro. No other machine I've tried has had equal build quality, display quality, and perceptive performance except maybe the Surface Book 2 but that was equally expensive. It is perhaps the best laptop I've ever used. It's the only truly portable 15" I've had which makes it one of a few in the category. It makes the XPS 15 (a relatively svelte machine in it's own right) look like a brick. Maybe a slightly more performant brick but in my work anything more than an Air is excess.
As for OS concerns. I love the integration between all my devices. The TouchBar lets me circumvent some things like YouTube ads and gives me the ability to picture in picture everything which makes it worth it. However, outside of some odd little issues Windows was a treat on the Surface devices I had and pretty okay on everything else. Much like Android it's highly dependent on the image that you get on the machine. The cleaner it is the less problematic it is. These days feature parity between apps is largely a given (EXCEPT PIVOT TABLES IN EXCEL DAMMIT) and the amount of web apps that are used instead means that both OS's basically stay out of my way - I only frequently interact with file management on both. In that respect, they're roughly equal but MacOS still has the upper hand when it comes to up-time. I never restart my Macs outside of the infrequent updates that require it. Windows still requires more on this front.
But if you're willing to tolerate it and some of the less successful but more interesting hardware, stuff is pretty great right now on the Windows side.
So really it's a judgement call whether you want to stay with MacOS and MacBooks. They may fix all the issues or we may have this design for another year or two. It's a nice system but there are nice systems for less money elsewhere. It's a great time for computing and I think either way you'd find yourself impressed with what's available these days - we really are spoiled. Maybe consider a 13" quad core if you don't need the graphics. It's the fastest ultrabook on the market right now and outperforms a 2017 15". You might enjoy the portability when on the go, since it seems you have a monitor to hook up to most of the time anyway.
In spite of the keyboard reliability problem that I had (which was promptly fixed) I have been thoroughly impressed with my 15" MacBook Pro. No other machine I've tried has had equal build quality, display quality, and perceptive performance except maybe the Surface Book 2 but that was equally expensive. It is perhaps the best laptop I've ever used. It's the only truly portable 15" I've had which makes it one of a few in the category. It makes the XPS 15 (a relatively svelte machine in it's own right) look like a brick. Maybe a slightly more performant brick but in my work anything more than an Air is excess.
As for OS concerns. I love the integration between all my devices. The TouchBar lets me circumvent some things like YouTube ads and gives me the ability to picture in picture everything which makes it worth it. However, outside of some odd little issues Windows was a treat on the Surface devices I had and pretty okay on everything else. Much like Android it's highly dependent on the image that you get on the machine. The cleaner it is the less problematic it is. These days feature parity between apps is largely a given (EXCEPT PIVOT TABLES IN EXCEL DAMMIT) and the amount of web apps that are used instead means that both OS's basically stay out of my way - I only frequently interact with file management on both. In that respect, they're roughly equal but MacOS still has the upper hand when it comes to up-time. I never restart my Macs outside of the infrequent updates that require it. Windows still requires more on this front.
But if you're willing to tolerate it and some of the less successful but more interesting hardware, stuff is pretty great right now on the Windows side.
So really it's a judgement call whether you want to stay with MacOS and MacBooks. They may fix all the issues or we may have this design for another year or two. It's a nice system but there are nice systems for less money elsewhere. It's a great time for computing and I think either way you'd find yourself impressed with what's available these days - we really are spoiled. Maybe consider a 13" quad core if you don't need the graphics. It's the fastest ultrabook on the market right now and outperforms a 2017 15". You might enjoy the portability when on the go, since it seems you have a monitor to hook up to most of the time anyway.
Thank you for mentioning Pine Book. I had never heard of them, but I sent in a request. This could be just what I have been looking for.
[doublepost=1556652014][/doublepost]
Well, I don't know if I am an expert, but no Windows does not track personal information. It uses telemetry to see how the system is running and if there are any issues. As for the update, yes if you don't have a machine on for quite some times and it falls behind, then yes the updates can take awhile. However you should be able to continue working, you don't have to sit and wait for the update. When it asks to reboot, just post phone it. You can easily go into setting and set the restart out for a week if you like. At any rate you can finish your work, and then reboot it.
Windows 10 is a lot more leaky than just telemetry data...
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/privacystatement
https://privacy.microsoft.com/en-us/windows10privacy
Depends on whether you use Cortana or not which I do, as I am not concerned about Microsoft. And at the end of the day if you use Google you are giving up far more personal information. Most of the people who complain and make an issue of Microsoft then turn around and use Google search and services?! I for one will not use Google's drive storage or photo applications because they come right out and tell you that your data and pictures can be used and taken by them to give to the highest bidder! Ask the YouTuber whose review was given to a phone company that they then used in their ads.
And lets not forget about the government who has taken it upon themselves to make internet accessible many public and personal records that people once had to go to some lengths to get. In the end I am afraid real privacy is a thing of the past. Just make sure someone doesn't get to make money off of your personal data.
Duck is very limited, but I do enjoy Firefox on Mac and Linux. iCloud is far too limited for me to even consider even on Mac.
I'm quite happy with Numbers, Notes, Reminders and Calendar. They integrate well with our iPhones.
Added to the fact that Apple has the iCloud keys so they can still access the stuff you upload there.
Ok it's a forum where people can just make statements without any stats to back them up and since it's on the internet it must be true.
Do us all a favor and back up your statement about unreliability and failure rates.
Here I'll help:
https://www.consumerreports.org/products/laptop/apple-macbook-pro-13-inch-8th-gen-396227/overview/
The 13" 2018 MBP is rated 10 out of 10, the highest of similar models. Overall score 80 out of 100.
https://www.consumerreports.org/products/laptop/ratings-overview/
The 2018 15" was #2 behind the Samsung 9 Notebook. Apple overall 83 Samsung 84 (out of 100)
If the OP wants one waiting doesn't solve a thing and these wait or buy threads happen every model year.
The problem is people like myself are genuinely concerned about the keyboard failures. The keyboard failures are a genuine issue, so much so that Apple issued an apology not to long ago.
I will personally wait for an all-clear before buying something modern. That could be watching several YouTube videos or some official source stating that the keyboards are fixed (and hopefully the touch bar gone). It might take 6-12 months after the new model is released before people are ready to agree that all is well again. I've been tweaking my 2014 and 2015 MacBook Pros and maybe I can just live with them until Apple gets its act together.
I rely on my hardware for a living as do many others, frequently working remotely. So purchasing $4K notebooks with a known design flaw that even the OEM recognises makes zero sense. Web is flooded and it's just a matter of time before Apple adds the 2018 models to the list.
Apple remains to have issue with the Butterfly Keyboard and it's well recognised. Knock yourself out and roll the dice, I've better things to do than be returning notebook's only to be repaired with the same flawed design over and over. Prior to 2016 Apple had nothing but praise for it's keyboards today it's a laughingstock. As I said before I've never seen so many drop the platform this being a primary reason amongst others as common sense applies for most...
You want back up? Any search engine type - Macbook pro keyboard issues - Apple is even openly apologising and accelerating the repair process for this ongoing fiasco...
Q-6
My 2015 12" MB had keyboard and battery replaced for free (out of Apple Care warranty) under the program by Apple. My 2016 13" MBP has had one issue, video screen, repaired for under Apple Care after thousands of hours of use traveling the world. My wife has the 2018 13" MBP and it works great. And these aren't our first rodeo.
Quite frankly over the years Apple products have held up for us far better than any of the competitors.
Now my question is this, do you own one of the "keyboard" models or are you just repeating what you read from others?
Experience and stats show Apple has a competitive product if not superior to the other brands. So let's understand the difference between statistical facts and opinions when they are given.
No product is ever perfect and if one wants to wait until it is developed... well it will be a very long time.
How about compared to the 2008 MacBook Pro keyboard? The 2014? The 2015?
Professionals require reliability. Apple has received a lot of negative press and the onus is on them to fix the problem, quickly and conveniently and reliably. And then they need to tell us about it by providing us with the failure stats. How are we supposed to get this data?
Read past forum messages about the older models and you will find the same thing has been posted over and over again. "They just don't make them like they used to..."
You will never get the "all clear" message because someone here on MR forum will always complain and say life is better somewhere else.