Qualcomm Owes Apple Almost $1 Billion in Rebate Payments According to New Court Ruling

[Kabeyun]

No they are not, Qualcomm's current X24 LTE modem is clearly better so we can exclude 5G no problem and Qualcomm is still ahead.
Also Qualcomm has been using 4x4 MIMO tech since their X12 LTE modem.
If a direct comparison is made Qualcomm's modems will definitely win most of time against Intel's modems. This is why people say that Qualcomm's modems are better. Qualcomm's modem doesn't have to win 100% of the time to be better.

Qualcomm may be marginally faster in some head to head comparisons now, and in most I’ve seen they’re on parity with Intel in current iPhones. That’s just the data without opinion.

Here’s what has nothing to do with Qualcomm modems now:
- How long they’ve been using 4x4 MIMO versus Intel
- That they used to be much better, such as in the iPhone X
- What their modems might do in the future
- How small their die process will be in the future
- Your obvious opinion that they’re better

 

[laptech]

All Qualcomm's lawyers will do is appeal and then subpoena Apple for the documents it say's it provided the Korean Fair Trade Commission lawfully, as part of an existing ongoing investigation into Qualcomm. If Qualcomm can prove that Apple was not approached by the Korean Fair Trade Commission but gave them the information voluntarily, then Qualcomm's lawyers will be able to argue in court that voluntarily giving the commission information that could hurt Qualcomm constitutes a breach of the 2013 Business Cooperation and Patent Agreement because 'volunteering' the information implies 'intent' on Apples part to hurt Qualcomm.

 

[ROGmaster]

Qualcomm may be marginally faster in some head to head comparisons now, and in most I’ve seen they’re on parity with Intel in current iPhones. That’s just the data without opinion.

In most comparisons they are faster and sometime they are much faster like X2, X4 times faster.
The situations where intel's modems are close or on parity are less common than when they are slower.
Examples: 1, 2, 3

Here’s what has nothing to do with Qualcomm modems now:
- How long they’ve been using 4x4 MIMO versus Intel

How do you know this exactly? And at the end of the day 4x4 MIMO is just one piece of tech.
Qualcomm's X24 LTE modem can do up to 2 Gbps while the XMM7560 can do only around 1 Gbps.

- That they used to be much better, such as in the iPhone X

They still are, their X24 LTE modems shows it.

- What their models might do in the future
- How Small their due process will be in the future

It's still valid to point out that their advantage looks like it just keeps increasing.
Qualcomms second gen 5G modem will be integrated in the SOC and will offer better performance and efficiency than their current 5G modem.
Also nothing indicates that Intel's future modems will be way more competitive than they are now.

 

[tridley68]

Ain't karma a Beach! Great job Apple.

 

[rjohnstone]

If I read the article correctly, the 1 billion won’t be coming from Qualcomm directly as the manufacturer has been holding onto the rebate money since the beginning of the disagreement.
I assume that would be Foxconn.
So basically Foxconn will transfer the funds to Apple instead of Qualcomm once all appeals are exhausted, provided the ruling stands.

 

[Apple Mac Daz]

Maybe just me but all these lawsuits are getting boring

 

[skitidetdu]

Booyah!

 

[cmaier]

40 Comments, and All I see is Qualcomm being too Shady?

The more I read the more I see Qualcomm has a case. The *only* argument I agree is Qualcomm is charging slightly too much on its patents. ( And patents only, not on its modem ) Which is a dispute that requires to be solved in court.

And It is another sight to see why some Android Fans absolutely hate Apple Fans. Some of them just decide to defend Apple no matter what.

The more you read? Qualcomm just lost its motion for summary judgment to keep a billion dollars. And the patent issue isn’t that they “charge slightly too much.” It’s that they are not entitled to charge a single dime to customers who buy their chips, because once they buy the chips they do not need a license to the patents.

 

[realtuner]

Yes, it's a part of the same overall situation, but it is an entirely separate issue from the two trials. I'm sure you could easily gather from the context of realturner's quote that he was conflating the trials with this issue. There were no "legal experts" claiming Qualcomm was right about this issue. As I said earlier, I doubt many even knew about this particular issue, cuz it definitely hasn't been widely covered like the trial.

Don’t put words in my mouth.

Literally every single legal case involving Apple there is always a strong bias against Apple. Every. Single. Case. Even the FTC vs Qualcomm case had people supporting Qualcomm because they assumed (wrongly) it was another Apple vs XYZ case.

 

[heimo]

Big companies, big disagreemenets. I wish someone owed me billion anything. I’d like Nigerian naira, but I’ll settle for Iranian rial.

 

[I7guy]

In most comparisons they are faster and sometime they are much faster like X2, X4 times faster.
The situations where intel's modems are close or on parity are less common than when they are slower.
Examples: 1, 2, 3



How do you know this exactly? And at the end of the day 4x4 MIMO is just one piece of tech.
Qualcomm's X24 LTE modem can do up to 2 Gbps while the XMM7560 can do only around 1 Gbps.



They still are, their X24 LTE modems shows it.



It's still valid to point out that their advantage looks like it just keeps increasing.
Qualcomms second gen 5G modem will be integrated in the SOC and will offer better performance and efficiency than their current 5G modem.
Also nothing indicates that Intel's future modems will be way more competitive than they are now.

Need a Xs or max comparison for starters. Not some YouTube video over a year old hardware. And it’s irrelevant the top speed, if the tower is congested. Nobody mostly ever gets anything near theoretical.

 

[mi7chy]

Qualcomm froze the rebates because Apple stopped paying its bills. Hopefully, this means Apple started paying its bills again that goes to pay US engineers.

Apple has shown a trend of bankrupting/trying to BK Western companies (Imagination Tech, Dialog Semi, GT Advanced, etc.), stealing their IP and transferring to China. Fortunately, Qualcomm has a diverse customer portfolio and didn't make the mistake of agreeing to Apple's sole supplier terms which would've been suicidal.

 

[Strokee]

Some of you people have odd insecurities. Apple is a company that sells you products. It is not a friend, it’s not a lover. Some of you people defend this C-O-M-P-A-N-Y to no end and it’s just pathetic. You defend this company and take offense when others have negative opinions about certain products or strategies. Again, it’s really weird. You seem to measure your self worth on the products you own and the perception of these products. A judgement on Apple and their business is not a judgement on you as individuals. Seriously, it’s pathetic and sad and some of you would benefit from creating more fulfilling lives.

Intel modems are inferior to Qualcomm modems. Again, they just are. This is widely understood, demonstrated in specs and tests and consumers’ day-to-day experiences. Intel’s 5G modem, whenever released, will be behind Qualcomm’s 5G latest 5G modem. Again, this is not a judgement on anybody who takes pride in their Apple products and does not decrease your worth as a human being. It’s just the reality of tech products.

Now you can go back to (oddly) celebrating Apple’s legal “victory” yesterday, as if you own the company, work for the company, are friends or lovers with the company and/or as if this “victory” somehow makes Apple’s products more consumer friendly.

 

[cmaier]

Qualcomm froze the rebates because Apple stopped paying its bills. Hopefully, this means Apple started paying its bills again that goes to pay US engineers.

Apple has shown a trend of bankrupting/trying to BK Western companies (Imagination Tech, Dialog Semi, GT Advanced, etc.), stealing their IP and transferring to China. Fortunately, Qualcomm has a diverse customer portfolio and didn't make the mistake of agreeing to Apple's sole supplier terms which would've been suicidal.

No, Qualcomm froze the rebates because they alleged that Apple improperly cooperated into a government investigation into Qualcomm’s potential anti-trust activities. And when they get unfrozen it will because a court has ordered it.

Your second paragraph is entirely nonsense, and is libelous. Apple has not been convicted of, nor even accused of, “stealing” any IP.

 

[Baymowe335]

In most comparisons they are faster and sometime they are much faster like X2, X4 times faster.
The situations where intel's modems are close or on parity are less common than when they are slower.
Examples: 1, 2, 3



How do you know this exactly? And at the end of the day 4x4 MIMO is just one piece of tech.
Qualcomm's X24 LTE modem can do up to 2 Gbps while the XMM7560 can do only around 1 Gbps.



They still are, their X24 LTE modems shows it.



It's still valid to point out that their advantage looks like it just keeps increasing.
Qualcomms second gen 5G modem will be integrated in the SOC and will offer better performance and efficiency than their current 5G modem.
Also nothing indicates that Intel's future modems will be way more competitive than they are now.

YouTube videos aren't data.

 

[IowaLynn]

Apple needs the Qualcomm X55 more than it needs $1 billion, I'd think. Inrek won't be ready until 2021, and maybe not then.

 

[G5isAlive]

40 Comments, and All I see is Qualcomm being too Shady?

The more I read the more I see Qualcomm has a case. The *only* argument I agree is Qualcomm is charging slightly too much on its patents. ( And patents only, not on its modem ) Which is a dispute that requires to be solved in court.

And It is another sight to see why some Android Fans absolutely hate Apple Fans. Some of them just decide to defend Apple no matter what.

What case in your expert knowledge? Because not stating it weakens your argument. Apparently the judges are Apple Fans too.

Your comment is just evidence Android fans will find something negative to say no matter what. I wonder why that is? You don't find many Apple fans wasting their time on Android sights. Maybe it's just sour grapes on part of Android Fans.
[doublepost=1552665157][/doublepost]

All Qualcomm's lawyers will do is appeal and then subpoena Apple for the documents it say's it provided the Korean Fair Trade Commission lawfully, as part of an existing ongoing investigation into Qualcomm. If Qualcomm can prove that Apple was not approached by the Korean Fair Trade Commission but gave them the information voluntarily, then Qualcomm's lawyers will be able to argue in court that voluntarily giving the commission information that could hurt Qualcomm constitutes a breach of the 2013 Business Cooperation and Patent Agreement because 'volunteering' the information implies 'intent' on Apples part to hurt Qualcomm.

The word 'speculation' comes to mind. 'Far-fetched' is another. 'Desperate' a third. Qualcomm is going down because they have no case.

 

[PrasadV]

The only people that really suffer is us with Intel modems.

Happiness is temporary, Satisfaction is permanent.

 

[laptech]

The word 'speculation' comes to mind. 'Far-fetched' is another. 'Desperate' a third. Qualcomm is going down because they have no case.

All it takes is a single email, a memo or even a recorded voice call, that shows Apple freely and voluntarily handed over information to the Commission's on going investigation in to Qualcomm, without the Commission ever approaching Apple for such information, then it proves Apple's intent to hurt Qualcomm which would invalidate the 2013 Business Cooperation and Patent Agreement.

If such evidence does exist and Qualcomm finds it, it be Apple that is going down.

 

[Kabeyun]

In most comparisons they are faster and sometime they are much faster like X2, X4 times faster.

No. They’re not, unless you’re looking at comparisons to old phones.

The situations where intel's modems are close or on parity are less common than when they are slower.
Examples: 1, 2, 3

LOL!! Two of those three are comparing to the iPhone X, which was only capable of 2x4. Care to compare to an iPhone 4? I promise Qcom will look fantastic! Did you even watch those videos? And the first one does show the Galaxy downloads faster by maybe 20% (that’s 1.2X). It also shows iPhone XS Max with faster upload speeds across the board and winning on download speeds during peak congestion. Did you watch that one either?

How do you know this exactly?

How do I know that the time Qualcomm has been playing with 4x4 MIMO doesn’t matter if both modems are using those protocols now? That isn’t obvious? If your previously slow car now goes as fast as a car that’s always gone fast, does that somehow make the first car less fast? Maybe you didn’t understand that part of my post.

Qualcomm's X24 LTE modem can do up to 2 Gbps while the XMM7560 can do only around 1 Gbps.

These are theoretical maximums. Valid field testing and user experience is what matters. This is why spec chatter is silly. You can benchmark CPUs, for example, and not be able to predict how fast it’s computer feels and behaves, because that has all to do with the software that drives it and the UI that interfaces with it. Want more proof that specs are silly? How can Intel’s XMM 7560 with its theoretical max download of 1Gbps reach >1.2Gbps on the video that you yourself posted? And how can the Qualcomm X24 with its theoretical max of 2Gbps only hit about 1.6 on that same video? Good one, right? I’ll tell you how. Because Apple is generally (yes, flamers, exceptions exist everywhere) really good at getting the best user experience out of the components they choose. That’s why happy Mac owners in the 90s and 00s didn’t pay attention Windows computer makers yammering on about how their CPUs had more hertz.

It's still valid to point out that their advantage looks like it just keeps increasing.

Nope. It isn’t. What will be doesn’t change what is. It only speaks to what will be. QC modems may be 100X faster next Grunsday, but they aren’t today.

Qualcomms second gen 5G modem will be integrated in the SOC and will offer better performance and efficiency than their current 5G modem.
Also nothing indicates that Intel's future modems will be way more competitive than they are now.

Bully for them. And in the future, we can all review how much faster QC modems are. Of course, that’s not the same conversation as how similar they are today in current hardware.

 

[cmaier]

All it takes is a single email, a memo or even a recorded voice call, that shows Apple freely and voluntarily handed over information to the Commission's on going investigation in to Qualcomm, without the Commission ever approaching Apple for such information, then it proves Apple's intent to hurt Qualcomm which would invalidate the 2013 Business Cooperation and Patent Agreement.

If such evidence does exist and Qualcomm finds it, it be Apple that is going down.

If such evidence exists it would have been presented as part of the motion for summary judgment. It wasn’t.

 

[justperry]

The only people that really suffer is us with Intel modems.

You and some others, I have no problems with mine whatsoever, I do live in a country where reception is excellent though.
Might complain to your providers instead of Apple.
And it also has been proven the Intel modem is not much slower, actually more or less on par, there's a graphic somewhere, I think it was 9to5 which proves the above.

Edit: @Kabeyun already pointed the above out.

 

[ilikewhey]

Intel modems, at least in current gen iPhones, are about as good as Qcom. iPhone XS & XSmax support Intel 4x4 MIMO and are basically on parity with Qcom modems.

to the last gen qualcomm yeah sure, but no one has tested the new s10 vs iphone xs yet. so we have to wait and see. qualcomm are at least a year or two ahead of everyone else in wireless chips, that type of gap doesnt just disappear over night

 

[Kabeyun]

to the last gen qualcomm yeah sure, but no one has tested the new s10 vs iphone xs yet. so we have to wait and see. qualcomm are at least a year or two ahead of everyone else in wireless chips, that type of gap doesnt just disappear over night

You’re wrong about the head to head. QC shows a slight edge when the network is wide open. They do seem to be ahead in 5G development, but that’s not in user hands now.

Of course, no slight edge downloading porn at 1AM is going to get me to drop iOS, which I feel is a far better UI than Android, having used both. I wouldn’t sell my Benz because I liked the gear shift lever in a different car. Nor will I leave the Apple ecosystem and it’s privacy/security bulldogs for the data-harvesting Wild West of Android/Google. No modem is that good.

 

[G5isAlive]

All it takes is a single email, a memo or even a recorded voice call, that shows Apple freely and voluntarily handed over information to the Commission's on going investigation in to Qualcomm, without the Commission ever approaching Apple for such information, then it proves Apple's intent to hurt Qualcomm which would invalidate the 2013 Business Cooperation and Patent Agreement.

If such evidence does exist and Qualcomm finds it, it be Apple that is going down.

If , if , if. Sure it doesn't take much, if it existed. It takes infinity if it doesn't exist. And what would this memo look like? "Hi, this is Apple Corporation. We understand you have an on going investigation against the scumbag Qualcomm so we would like to voluntarily without you asking supply you with all the dirt we know or can make up."

Maybe they will find that. Or maybe this is not how it happened at all.