Does Microsoft provide support for “universal” binaries that run x86/ARM similar to Apple?
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Qualcomm to Take on Apple Silicon Chips With Snapdragon X Series for PCs
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Truth and fact on only very specific scenarios that can’t really be translated to real world applications. I like Qualcomm to come out on top but Apple silicon has come a long way and there is no chance Apple will just give up on advantages.
From what I've read performance is pretty bad and has a huge toll on battery life.Maybe you don't know, but Windows on ARM runs x86 apps,
How emulation works on Arm
Learn how emulation for x86 and x64 apps makes the rich ecosystem of existing Win32 apps available on Arm devices.learn.microsoft.com
Whether it gets used in Chromebooks depends on how much Qualcomm decide to charge. They seem to be positioning it as a premium product, which means it may move in Surface but I doubt we’ll see it in Chromebooks.
On the enterprise front, my experience is that if you can really make a case that this hardware will allow you to do your job better, then you will probably get new hardware. Labour is much more expensive than a new laptop, so a 10% boost is already massive.
On the enterprise front, my experience is that if you can really make a case that this hardware will allow you to do your job better, then you will probably get new hardware. Labour is much more expensive than a new laptop, so a 10% boost is already massive.
No. You can’t blame all on Microsoft. Software developers just don’t have incentive to build ARM compatible applications. I can tell ya. Even if Microsoft pulls the plug on x86 at this very second, it will take more than just a few months for Windows on ARM to be feature comparable with x86 counterparts. Not to mention Microsoft would just fizzle out extremely quickly without x86. What’s happening after then? Don’t tell me the fragmented Linux would come to save the day.
Office is native, and many productivity apps run decently on ARM. For enterprise use, these may work well.
Maybe, if Windows on Arm ever becomes not total ****. The missing piece in all of this is an actual functioning operating system. Apple of course basically nailed the transition. Microsoft has been struggling with this since well before the Apple Silicon public announcement and isn’t getting far.
Yeah I know it’s basically functional but a lot of drivers don’t work and there’s lots of other weird compatibility issues. Considering compatibility is basically the ONLY reason to ever run Windows, that’s a problem.
Life ain’t fair.
Because they have attractive design with solid performance to back it up?
I'd love for this to succeed because I would love the ability to dual boot a macbook. Need windows for work, and so I am hanging onto this Intel Mac for as long as feasibly possible. I have drooled over sale prices of some of the M2 macbooks, and am especially impressed by their performance, but it would just be a second laptop, when one is all I need/want.
Meteor Lake should be a nice improvement, but not yet on the same level as Apple's M-series with regard to power efficiency. The one to look for when it comes to efficiency for ultra-portable laptops is Lunar Lake, which is now in prototype stage and is scheduled to debut in late '24. It's specifically designed for power efficiency, and by then Intel will likely have fully caught up to TSMC with their 18A manufacturing process.
5G laptops have been already been on the market for a while and haven't exactly set the world on fire. Also, laptops don't have the same space and power constraints as phones, which means that using a separate 5G modem is not a significant issue, so there is not much benefit to integrating it in the CPU package.
Big fat NOPE.
Others have said this. They're taking on AMD and Intel. A fully built AMD machine with both Ryzen Processor and Radeon graphics card is pretty badass. Same goes with Intel and Nvidia machines.
Others have said this. They're taking on AMD and Intel. A fully built AMD machine with both Ryzen Processor and Radeon graphics card is pretty badass. Same goes with Intel and Nvidia machines.
In theory, it sounds like a good idea. That's if Qualcomm can convince Microsoft to write a version of Windows 12 that works in the native mode of this new CPU/GPU architecture (good luck with that!). Apple succeeded because they have spent all their resources since around 2015 to successfully port MacOS to run under the native mode of their ARM-based SoC's.
It's a question of motivation. Windows on Arm certainly isn't funded or staffed like Windows x86, and there was no reason to because it was a pretty niche market. Once we see a bigger market open up for Arm PCs, Microsoft will need to fall in line for survival.
While we wait, we'll see both MacOS and Chromebooks continue to outcompete Windows laptops which will serve to force the issue with Microsoft (and Dell, HP, Lenovo, etc).
Except that the next generation of Chromebooks uses x86, because Google wasn't happy with ARM. And MacOS has a market share of less than 10%, so that will hardly force anything.
I'm also resistant to giving Verizon another damned dime - in the rare case that my MBA is out of wireless coverage, I've been happy to tether to my phone.
Microsoft themselves seemed to want it. It’s convenient to the other technological breaks they’re trying to make, like centralized control of drivers and moving away from Win32.
I think it’s more the classic issue of Microsoft misunderstanding what the market wants and needs. The market wants Arm and all the benefits. Microsoft’s business customers need all the terrible old software that big companies made in the 90s and will never update. Those two things are fundamentally opposed.
Wasn't happy with Arm why? If Qualcomm resolved their concerns, then looking back is meaningless.
It doesn't matter what the market share is-- eventually someone is going to start to ask "why is everyone out performing your products" and marketshare is a pretty bad counter argument. Google can change platforms easily, if the Qualcomm chips deliver they'll switch back without the baggage that Microsoft carries.
It's a disruptive change. There's no reason to put a foot in the boat if you're not sure you're ready to leave the dock yet. (see: Windows NT). I kind of think that Windows on Arm was meant as a signal to the market that they're open to this. Sure it wasn't the best implementation, because they didn't put the full force of Microsoft behind developing it, but the fact it was released told the market "we showed you ours, now show us yours".
Apple demonstrated you can run x86 code quite well on Arm with a little preprocessing. I'm sure Microsoft is capable of doing the same.
Too slow with inexpensive CPUs, more expensive than x86 for comparable performance.
We'll have to wait and see if they did, and if so, at what price. Apple's M CPUs are likely expensive to make. Apple with their high-priced laptops can absorb that, but for Chromebooks it won't fly.
But that's not the case. The latest AMD and Intel CPUs keep up with and in some cases already surpass Apple's M series. Apple (and TSMC) will have to iterate faster to stay ahead.
It’s funny that the same people who’ve been mocking the performance of Apple Silicon for years by comparing it to power-hungry monster CPUs and GPUs from Intel and Nvidia now complain about Apple Silicon’s lack of power efficiency. It’s a common form of double binding used frequently in this forum by people with no interest in Apple or its products. In fact if you search the word ”sucks” you can find many old posts by the same people since the introduction of Apple Silicon telling everyone everything Apple sucks.
Someone may as usual say power efficiency in desktop computers doesn’t matter but it does in phones. Yes, but in the case of A17 Pro they haven’t sacrificed the battery life. You get the same battery life as before but with greater performance. It’s always been like that. With new chips you can either choose better power efficiency or better performance, or something between. This time Apple chose better performance for its HW ray tracing among other things and to make A17 Pro a gaming chip to bring AAA games to iPhone with PC/console quality.
The video still shows different advantages of A17 Pro and iOS over its competitors that people here don’t want to talk about as much. Even at the same clock speed A17 has far greater IPC (instructions per cycle) up to 44%.
A17 E-cores are even more impressive and totally dominate the chart. Up to 4.4 times faster than Snapdragon at about the same wattage.
They even compared A17 E-cores to Snapdragon’s Mid-cores and while A17 can be a bit slower or faster it uses about two times less power. Talk about power efficiency!
The test also shows that MetalFX creates ”the best super-resolution seen on mobile devices”.
While A17 was only 5 frames behind in GFXbench GPU test it was faster or about as fast as the SnapDragon phones in real games like Genshin Impact while using up to 59% less power. Hello power efficiency again!
They also compared its GPU to Steam Deck and ROG Ally. They upscaled the resolution manually to 1080p and MetalFX wasn’t even used because it’s not supported yet in Resident Evil Village on iOS. The performance was impressive and not far behind the competitors while using only 4W compared to 15W used by Steam Deck. That’s almost 4 times more power efficient.
So there you have other interesting details people don’t like to talk about but the more important question is what would happen next if SnapDragon X was in fact ”better” than Apple Silicon? Would that be a world changer? Would Mac users ditch all their Macs and go buy ARM PCs? Would Apple go bankrupt? The answer is no. Because ARM PCs don’t run macOS and using Macs, iPhones or iPads is more than just having the fastest CPU or GPU. Neither is Apple always competing with everyone. They compete with themselves by doing their best and what’s best for their users. If people don’t agree they can always buy the fastest SnapDragon they like so they don’t have to post nonsense year after year.
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