Quartz Extreme Demo Movie

[Rower_CPU]

You're getting the display (i.e. monitor) and the program (i.e. Illustrator) confused.

If you zoom in on a vector all you see is a straight line, no pixels whatsoever. If you simply take a magnifying glass to the monitor you will see pixels, since that's how the monitor displays this information.

If QE just takes the signal and increases each pixel by a set factor to achieve zooming, then all you will see is blocky pixels. If it actually reads the data, and then outputs a zoomed in image to the monitor, then vector shapes should stay straight.

It all depends on how sophisticated QE is...

 

[eyelikeart]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


My TiBook w/ 640MB occasionally pages out, but only if I'm really multitasking with heavy duty apps

something to think about...

I do any graphic work in 9.2....not X...

but even while running multiple internet apps....iTunes...and maybe photoshop....I haven't really seen anything...

who knows...? 😕

 

[gopher]

Re: Quartz Extreme Demo Movie

Originally posted by blakespot
User has just written in with news of a Quartz Extreme demo movie over at MacNytt (German site)[/url]. Interesting footage -- have a look.

submitted by Nastarovja

Woah....magnification x 10 Is that done by key command with Quartz extreme? How were they able to zoom in on the movie?

 

[Aqua OS X]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
You're getting the display (i.e. monitor) and the program (i.e. Illustrator) confused.

If you zoom in on a vector all you see is a straight line, no pixels whatsoever. If you simply take a magnifying glass to the monitor you will see pixels, since that's how the monitor displays this information.

If QE just takes the signal and increases each pixel by a set factor to achieve zooming, then all you will see is blocky pixels. If it actually reads the data, and then outputs a zoomed in image to the monitor, then vector shapes should stay straight.

It all depends on how sophisticated QE is...

QE is no more sophisticated then what we have now in 10.1. Apple is only moving the the quartz compositing engine to the GPU and taking it off the CPU.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Aqua OS X
QE is no more sophisticated then what we have now in 10.1. Apple is only moving the the quartz compositing engine to the GPU and taking it off the CPU.

Really? Where did you get that info?

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Really? Where did you get that info?

I followed your link:

Quartz Extreme
Jaguar dramatically improves the performance of Mac OS X with Quartz Extreme hardware-based graphics acceleration. Quartz Extreme takes advantage of the OpenGL 3D graphics engine to make the entire desktop a fully accelerated OpenGL scene. A supported* video card can then render the drawing of the desktop, just like it would a 3D game. The main CPU chip(s) can then focus on application-specific needs, making the whole system faster and more responsive.

That means your shadows will drop quickly, your genies will appear slicker and your transparencies will layer faster — and Mac OS X can do more processing in the background while you move the foreground.

But as for no improvement from the Quartz in X, what do you have to say to the new live zooming feature……hmmm??

This quote from Apple and the leaked demo's are the only real proof that we have,

 

[Aqua OS X]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


Really? Where did you get that info?

Ok, now I don't want to get too geeky. However I get this info primarily from the horses mouth - Apple as well as ATi. It's not new info... you just have to talk with the dorks in the mac dev community.

No doubt, the compositing engine for Quartz and the ways in which certain applications interact with Quartz have been refined in Jaguar. Regardless of whether your video card is "supported" you should still see some speed boosts, be able to render transparency over DVD's, and be able to zoom. (although I could very well see Apple killing the latter two for non QE machines in order to spare the CPU. )

QE is basically a wrapper for the Quartz compositing engine which sits on top of OpenGL. Instead of having the compositing engine for Quartz on top of the CPU, which is also doing everything else on your mac, QE places that engine on top of OpenGL, which in turn sits on top of your GPU.

Now understand that your GPU was not really designed for post script, it does not contain superhuman powers (well I guess it isn't human 😉), and it is essentially going to handle the math for the Quartz compositing engine much in the same way the CPU would handle it.

Nevertheless, the GPU in OS X is usually doing a whole lot'a noth'n unless you are playing a 3D game. So why not max that little processor out and exploit it in ways that you really can't do with the CPU, because the CPU still has other stuff to do. This is where you are going to see your speed boosts come from.

However, it's also important to remember that some of the math for Quartz still has to be done on the CPU ... quartz extreme or not. Complex calculations like those done with a browser resize will still be kind of slow.

Hopefully mac developers will start to see the limitations of quartz, and understand that they ARE here for stay for a bit longer (and forever on non upgradable macs). There are ways to accomplish fast efficient live animations on OS X, and Apple needs to inform developers about how this is done (it wouldn't hurt to give them more free tools as well)...however this is another post unto it's own.

 

[Backtothemac]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I made a new video

Originally posted by eyelikeart


u don't happen to have any #'s of which to compare your iBook to a G4 system by chance do u?

I'm curious to know how it will run on my TiBook....once it's installed...

Actually, I would love to find a way to do some speed tests. I will start a new thread and see what we can come up with for a basis of testing. That would be neat to see how they do.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by mc68k

I followed your link:


But as for no improvement from the Quartz in X, what do you have to say to the new live zooming feature……hmmm??

This quote from Apple and the leaked demo's are the only real proof that we have,

But the info on the Jaguar page is generic marketing speak that says nothing about what's going on behind the scenes, other than the hardware acceleration.

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by Rower_CPU


But the info on the Jaguar page is generic marketing speak that says nothing about what's going on behind the scenes, other than the hardware acceleration.

But besdies the bootleg Jaguars and the bootleg WWDC videos, there is no REAL proof besides this marketing talk. Everything else is just heresay. I want to see the goods before I go bitching on the forums and to Apple!!!

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by mc68k
But besdies the bootleg Jaguars and the bootleg WWDC videos, there is no REAL proof besides this marketing talk. Everything else is just heresay. I want to see the goods before I go bitching on the forums and to Apple!!!

Exactly...🙂

 

[katchow]

I reitterate...zooming is not a new feature.

Am i the only who remembers Close View starting as far back as system 7? The zooming in OSX appears to be exactly the same except for the smooth transition between zooms...

here's a page about it at apple's site...

http://www.apple.com/disability/easyaccess.html

whats all the fuss?

kactchow

 

[mc68k]

CloseView!=QE Zoom

Originally posted by katchow
I reitterate...zooming is not a new feature.

Am i the only who remembers Close View starting as far back as system 7? The zooming in OSX appears to be exactly the same except for the smooth transition between zooms...

here's a page about it at apple's site...

http://www.apple.com/disability/easyaccess.html

whats all the fuss?

kactchow

No, CloseView is not lost to history. I also used MouseKeys back in the day in System 7.

Well, the zooming might appear similar, but the whole OS architecture is wholly different than OS 9, so it's not exactly the same. In fact, it's probably the opposite.

Same idea, better implemenation. Try playing a QT movie with CloseView— it's a no go. Then try it with QE and tell me if it's the same.

 

[katchow]

i used to watch quicktimes movies with close view...true, it was a bit choppy, but i always attributed that to my lack of video memory (maybe i was wrong).

I'm just saying that this is not a new idea...true it may be handled better in OSX...but aren't a lot of things? It just seemed like everyone was surprised, like it was some new revolutionary feature to be able to zoom your monitor from the OS....

katchow

 

[mc68k]

Originally posted by katchow
i used to watch quicktimes movies with close view...true, it was a bit choppy, but i always attributed that to my lack of video memory (maybe i was wrong).

I'm just saying that this is not a new idea...true it may be handled better in OSX...but aren't a lot of things? It just seemed like everyone was surprised, like it was some new revolutionary feature to be able to zoom your monitor from the OS....

katchow

Yes, hardly revolutionary and hardly new. I don't see much use for it, and I'm halfway blind. I just use the zooming features that come standard in most programs.

People are just excited because it's QE and Jaguar combined to produce something that wasn't in 10.1.x. That's all. We musn't lose sight of history now. 🙂

 

[dantec]

I think everyone finds the zooming pretty amazing because knowing the history of OS 10's speed, it looks like something too good to be true with zooming effect...

 

[holmesf]

I'm using 10.2 and I have a few things to say about QE.

First, Zooming, while cool, and having a good drool factor to display to PC users, is completely useless unless you have a disability. Thats what it was designed for in the first place! It slows down the system while your zoomed in and is completely unpracticle. I don't know why you guys are so worked up about it.

Secondly, I think quartz extreme is only being applied for a few things. When moving a window around, window manger still hogs 40% of the CPU. As of now, I only think QE is applied onto transperancy effects and the zooming, as those are the only places I've seen speed increases. Moving the terminal around when it is transparent is MUCH faster. Also, making the little box to select files on the desktop snaps perfectly to the cursor. Also, they've added new fading effects when opening applications, which I think have to do with transperancy and QE.

On a completely differn't note I've also noticed the quicktime movie at the begining of RTCW as well as scrolling in IE are smoother as well (donno why).

 

[Aqua OS X]

I don't know why I even both trying to explain QE to you guys 🙄

Theoretically things such as zooming, and transparency over DVDs, should also function on macs without QE in jaguar. Placing the compositing engine on the GPU does not give it special powers, it's just frees up the CPU.

 

[Rower_CPU]

Originally posted by Aqua OS X
I don't know why I even both trying to explain QE to you guys 🙄

Someone's a little full of themselves...

The next time you put someone down you might want to double-check for typos...or is that not something you both to do?