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Quartz Extreme Presentation

Originally posted by MacMaster
In the PDF it says that agp 2x required and agp 4x recommended. Only recommended? Does this hint to something like agp 8x? Just a thought...
Click to expand...

:rolleyes: You speculative people! So when you buy software and it says it requires a G3, but recommends a G4 - you don't buy the software because the G5 must be around the corner? When a hardware spec is recommended that simply indicates the ideal environment at the moment of recommending a system. (What a sentence.).
 
This is more of a general thought regarding the OpenGL thing... so QE will unload a lot of processing off the CPU by using the resources on the graphics card, what if I am working in a 3D app or playing a 3D game ? Will those tasks be slower because the card has to draw a big chunk of the UI as well (and has less video ram left)? Will I be able to use two cards and dedicate one to QE ?
 
Did any one else notice:

The slideshow included a list of extensions used by QE to adress hardware by various companies and various parts of the Mac architecture:

GL_NV_**** = nVidia
GL_ATI_****= ATI
GL_SGI_****= Silicon Graphics Chipset?!?!?!?!:eek: :eek: :eek: :cool: :eek:


If I'm interpreting this correctly..... What does this mean?:eek:
 
Rage 128 does NOT do QE

All you guys w/ 16 and 32 mb Rage 128 cards, CANNOT benefit from Quartz Extreme. QE requires a programmable GPU, such as a GF3, or Radeon7000/8500/9xxx. Any GeForce2MX, or Rage128, or Radeon v. 1 cards cannot do quartzextreme.
 
iMac owners are SCREWED !!!

All you guys w/ 16 and 32 mb Rage 128 cards, CANNOT benefit from Quartz Extreme. QE requires a programmable GPU, such as a GF3, or Radeon7000/8500/9xxx. Any GeForce2MX, or Rage128, or Radeon v. 1 cards cannot do quartzextreme.

All iMacs (except for the new 17") are equipped with an ancient GeForce2MX card, if the previous post is correct that renders them unable to fully utilize QE:D :(

Also to all people with G3's and iBooks and PCI cards, you would not notice the same speed bump as those G4 users with PCI cards. Jaguar is AltiVec optimized and G3's do not have AltiVec:(

Oops
 
SOOOooo.... what is the better scenario for Jaguar?

1. G3 WITH 16mb Radeon?
2. G4 with 8mb videocard?

I currently am running a new ibook 700mhz. Will I notice HUGE speed increase? B/c for $130 I want HUGE!!!

Thanks in advance...
 
Re: Did any one else notice:

Originally posted by mischief
The slideshow included a list of extensions used by QE to adress hardware by various companies and various parts of the Mac architecture:

GL_NV_**** = nVidia
GL_ATI_****= ATI
GL_SGI_****= Silicon Graphics Chipset?!?!?!?!:eek: :eek: :eek: :cool: :eek:


If I'm interpreting this correctly..... What does this mean?:eek:
Click to expand...

Doesn't mean anything, really, other than that it makes use of an OpenGL extension originally developed by SGI - I'm going to guess that said extension is implemented by one or other (or both) of nVidia and ATI also, hence it appears in the list. Similarly, I don't think there's anything preventing ATI from implementing GL_NV extensions, or vice versa, as long as the implementation actually works.
 
Re: Rage 128 does NOT do QE

Originally posted by bobartig
All you guys w/ 16 and 32 mb Rage 128 cards, CANNOT benefit from Quartz Extreme. QE requires a programmable GPU, such as a GF3, or Radeon7000/8500/9xxx. Any GeForce2MX, or Rage128, or Radeon v. 1 cards cannot do quartzextreme.
Click to expand...

Actually it requires non-power of 2 textures and some pixel formats older cards can't do. It will run on a GeForce2mx, it will run on a Radeon, it won't run on a Rage. Apple has already posted what it will run on, I don't see why this is so confusing.

Also, only the new iMacs come with a GeForce2mx or better. CRT iMacs are out of luck, as are all iBooks except for current and future ones (the current ones have a 16MB radeon mobility on an AGP2X slot. Minimum requirements, but it will run it).

To the person wondering about 3d performance while using QE (or QuartzGL as the people on arstechnica call it): It would only affect it if it was running in a window, most 3d games and such run full screen, so it isn't drawing the UI.
 
wow

Perhaps the most profound new functionality of Quartz Extreme (according to the PowerPoint file on page 12) will be the ability for quartz-native elements to draw over Classic layers without Classic going all wiggety-whitey until Classic is given permission to refresh the QuickDraw on-screen. At least I hope so :p
 
For those looking for an increase in speed

You can get some even in 10.0 from XOptimize and Macjanitor,
extra RAM, extra free hard disk space, and partitioning so that the hard drive has less seek room (25 GB is about the maximum I've found as a good ballance on a 5400 RPM Flat Panel iMac drive).

More from updating to 10.1.
More from updating to Jaguar.
and even more from updating to Jaguar on an AGP machine.

For additional speed hints, places to download aforementioned software visit:

http://www.macmaps.com/Macosxspeed.html
 
I just spoke to someone with a Blue and White G3 and Rage 128 running 6c106, and while Quartz Extreme per se isn't fully optimized he does say the speed increase is quite significant. I'll say this much Jaguar will mean a speed increase across all supported machines. The search from within the Finder really rocks.
 
quartz extreme is revolutionary stuff!

until today i just thought of QE as apple's solution to the poor performance of Quartz, but after viewing the presentation.pdf i'm really excited about the possibilities!

this isn't just about texture mapping quartz functions onto polygons, it's turning the whole GUI into a 3d environment. mapping textures to mimic the basic windowing system that we all know and love is only the beginning. now any 3d scene can be drawn on the desktop with it's own 3d environment and alpha blending. i think we're going to see a boatload of 3d interface widgets popping up over the next 6 months from 3rd party developers... and over the next few years apple will hopefully invent the next step in desktop GUI using a 3d paradigm... (i'm thinking something like william gibson's neuromancer).

i'm very excited! every graphics function being pumped through opengl means developers will flock to osx, especially game companies... apple is implementing a ton of low level opengl calls that will speed up any programmer's application.

awesome! now i just need to save up for a new comp that will support QE ;)
 
You can have truly 3d icons. Imagine an icon that rotates, or that you can twist and turn...

What would be a cool hack, is to turn the object that the desktop is being textured on into a sphere, or some weird shape, and then have it move! Or even better, when a window is minimized, it morphs into a sphere, and the sphere bounces into the dock while getting smaller, and then un-wraps itself into the dock! I'm not sure if this is possible, but it would be cool.
 
But isn't it true that OpenGL doesn't yet support programmable pixel shaders? Isn't that going to be a huge detraction?
 
Old Machines!

Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon


while you are looking at the link also note the bar graphs to the left of the note on QE compatability. even without QE 10.2 boasts approximately a 50% increase in speed over 10.1. Having installed 10.2 on machines not supported by QE i must say that the speed increase is very real and very significant. thats not to say it wouldnt be nice to have QE also speeding things up, but with old machines you should never expect a new os to have perfect compatability.
Click to expand...

I don't consider my less than year old TiPB 500 an old machine, and yet, it won't run QE:mad:
 
Well, I just ordered 10.2 with the educational discount.... I called up my Apple reseller and he said it should be out in two weeks...
 
I'm running a build of 10.2 on both a 500mhz TiBook and a Sawtooth G4 350mhz.

The Sawtooth has a Radeon 8500 AGP in it.

QE works in the Sawtooth wonderfully and improves performance to an amazing degree.

My TiBook has increased performance and has vastly improved video playback among other things....

One of the first differences I saw between the two installations is in the 'Change Desktop at intervals' setting. On the Sawtooth the desktop pictures do a fade between them very much like the default screensaver fade. On the TiBook the pictures just switch... no fade.

From my personal experience so far I think that QE isn't really a single API or self contained set of functions. It appears to be a collection of functions that are either supported by the video card or they are not.

By this I mean that it looks like all of the window buffer is still going through the video card on my TiBook... but the pixel shading stuff and window alpha blend (bells and whistles) is being done on the CPU first and then being sent through it along with all the other PDF/Video/etc. data.

So the on-the-fly effects like the fading desktop pics mentioned only works on the newer video cards but the more standard windowing and graphics drawing is still getting a boost from the video card/GPU.

I don't know these things for sure but this is what i think from personal experience playing with the OS, and I'm only working with the 6c98 build.

(BTW Apple folks, i already ordered my copy of 10.2 so don't bite my head off for doing some beta testing.)

p.s. my Sawtooth will soon be getting a 1 Ghz upgrade card... ;-p God willing, it will work with my poor 3.5 year old machine.
 
that's where things are going!

Originally posted by G4scott
You can have truly 3d icons. Imagine an icon that rotates, or that you can twist and turn...

What would be a cool hack, is to turn the object that the desktop is being textured on into a sphere, or some weird shape, and then have it move! Or even better, when a window is minimized, it morphs into a sphere, and the sphere bounces into the dock while getting smaller, and then un-wraps itself into the dock! I'm not sure if this is possible, but it would be cool.
Click to expand...

if you look through the presentation there's one screen that shows two 3d objects just floating around the desktop. i think we're going to see a lot of small utility apps coming out that have simple 3d interfaces (with no traditional windows) in the few months after 10.2 comes out.
 
Re: that's where things are going!

Originally posted by Solipsys

i think we're going to see a lot of small utility apps coming out that have simple 3d interfaces (with no traditional windows) in the few months after 10.2 comes out.
Click to expand...

I think this is already possible, and I was trying to do it a while back, but I know very little about OpenGL and programmatic image manipulation etc., so I never got it to work. The plan was to render my object in an off-screen buffer, then mask out the stuff I didn't want (the rectangle around the object), and display the cut-out result as my window. With any luck, QE-related APIs will remove the need for all these acrobatics - it would be _very_ cool.
 
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