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Questions Arise Over Google's Plans to Bring Free Turn-By-Turn GPS Navigation to iPhone
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Google can try to release it, but there's no way Apple will approve it.
It'll be Google Voice all over again, but even more nastier.
It'll be Google Voice all over again, but even more nastier.
I don't expect you to believe me, but I'm far from being an Apple apologist. I'm merely responding to your insistence on using one sole source to support your view which runs counter to the reports we have from reporters, journalists, historians and others who claim otherwise. I have no interest in a battle of opinions. If you want to continue to believe Apple stole from Xerox, I don't really care.
And speaking of those reporters, journalists and historians, they have verified and written the history of the events we're talking about. They've reviewed the available records and talked to many involved. I don't have any interest in discrediting Jef Raskin. He's merely expressing his opinion, but let's both be honest and say he has emotional ties in these events and has a long history of disagreeing (sometimes vehemently) with Steve Jobs. What you're doing is taking that possibly emotional viewpoint and trying to extrapolate historical fact from it--facts that contradict the research others have done.
So, my question for you is this: who do you logically side with in a debate over the facts? The reporters, journalists and historians who have researched the events and records to produce as accurate a report on them as possible or the person who has an emotional investment in it?
I know who I'd go with.
I am not sure what "reporters, journalists, historians and others" you are talking about. There have been a lot of Apple apologists bantering over the years, some arguing Jobs didn't copy anything, others arguing that it wasn't "stealing." But the facts are pretty clear.
Xerox invested in Apple stock, and in the deal allowed Jobs to see the PARC research.
Jobs saw it, then redirected Apple's development into developing GUI. And he hired away a good portion of the talent which developed the GUI for Xerox. Xerox NEVER agreed to let Jobs copy its ideas, nor to hire its staff responsible for developing such ideas.
These are the facts. Of course, Apple has done tremendous development subsequently, but few would argue that the core foundation is not Xerox's.
Xerox never really appreciated what it had with PARC, and it did not sue Apple until much, much later, when it was way too late (when Apple sued MS over much the same concepts).
But, if you ponder Apple's current suit against HTC, you'll agree that Apple's cause of action is considerably weaker than what Xerox had back then, had it decided to sue Apple.
You didn't seem to have any trouble digging up a Jef Raskin quote to support your viewpoint so I trust you're capable of finding these things yourself.
Like I said, I don't care if you think Apple stole ideas, but the evidence contrary to that assertion is out there in numerous places. People have already posted links for you. Did you look at that? Avail yourself to it if you want but arguing with people on the Internet won't prove anything one way or the other.
Have a good day.
Are you saying Xerox agreed to show its ideas to Apple in return for financial compensation, but Apple was not supposed to implement any of it? Why would Apple want to pay to see something if it was not able to use it afterwards? Sure... People believe 9/11 was the work of US government, so I guess this is not all that far fetched. Anyways, even if such a ridiculous agreement was clearly made, why did not Xerox sue Apple out of existence then?
Xerox was not taking the ideas of its researchers seriously and was implementing them in any of its products. This disappointed many many people left Xerox, not just for Apple, to start their own companies afterwards and many of them came up with groundbreaking products. Somehow Apple is the bad guy out of all this? I feel as sorry for Xerox as I do for GM.
Your fanboy speculation, however, fails to regard an important factor.
Verizon's network traffic, regardless of its current volume, is a 'pre-existing' condition.
Compound Verizon's already heavily burdened network with AT&T's recent surge of data demand, and you have a very different scenario.
Even the 'mighty' Verizon's capacity is susceptible to a tipping point - especially one due to a significant amplification of its formidable existing data load.
Voice+data happens to be an important factor for anyone in the financial sector, wholesale business, retail business, medical field, law, law enforcement, transportation, entertainment, broadcast journalism, et.al., those who need access to information while conducting a transaction, giving/accepting accurate quotes, or closing a deal in a well informed, and timely manner.
An important feature for some. (so much for others)
Apple is isolating itself. Eventually, no other company in the world will want to work with Apple, but instead will join the collaborative group of companies that compete against Apple.
This is what Microsoft did twenty years ago. Look at how many PCs there are in the world compared to Macs.
Google is NOT a good company to start a feud with.
This is what Microsoft did twenty years ago. Look at how many PCs there are in the world compared to Macs.
Google is NOT a good company to start a feud with.
iPhone turn by turn
This is the least important thing that I would want on my iPhone. As much as i love my phone, the gps is horrible. When you turn, the blue position marker just keeps going for a few seconds until it realizes you've turned. When using a turn by turn program this really messes up the directions. It believes youre on another street and goes berserk. I would not even think about purchasing an app that uses this part of the iPhone.
This is the least important thing that I would want on my iPhone. As much as i love my phone, the gps is horrible. When you turn, the blue position marker just keeps going for a few seconds until it realizes you've turned. When using a turn by turn program this really messes up the directions. It believes youre on another street and goes berserk. I would not even think about purchasing an app that uses this part of the iPhone.
Is it really that difficult to have different positive opinions about different products? Is it really a requirement to hate some products in order to like other products? Is it really necessary to align to a single company or entity???
"the true test of a first-rate mind is the ability to hold two contradictory ideas at the same time and still function"
ahh, so much for anecdotal evidence
Stay living in fear
..anyway, I'm no iPhone user yet, but I would have thought with the vast amount of apps in the app store, there would be loads of competing turn by turn nav apps, how come there isn't? apple strict censorship?
Stay living in fear
"Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean they aren't after you." - - Joseph Heller in Catch 22
Careful there OutSpoken, you may have a reasonable point, but using the rolleyes smilie really smacks of tempting fate.
There is no point arguing over this, honestly. There is no way of knowing the truth, since after, is not only Jef Raskin who supports the idea the Apple took Xerox's GUI.
I really want to read Fire in the Valley, not that I would take it as my only source. In either case, Gates was right (sort of) with the "rich neighbor called Xerox" thing, although "stole" might be a strong word.
http://www.folklore.org/StoryView.py?story=A_Rich_Neighbor_Named_Xerox.txt
Heh - - I like this quote from your link:
I think this is the heart of the disagreement in this thread. Apple traded stock for the right to use some of Xerox's ideas, so "bought" might be a better word. Or one might even say Apple was "inspired" by Xerox's ideas, just as Xerox was inspired by Douglas Engelbart's foundational work in GUI's. The use of the word "stole" implies a criminal conviction - - and since Apple operates in the US where you are presumed innocent until proven guilty, it is simply not accurate.
yes we said it, no we didn't say it.
As if the world is hanging by their ..., as if they were no far better applications than whatever google comes up with already on the iphone.
google, what a bunch of *******s...
As if the world is hanging by their ..., as if they were no far better applications than whatever google comes up with already on the iphone.
google, what a bunch of *******s...
if there is no point arguing over this then why did you bring up this garbage in the first place, it's well known apple didn't steal anything. Xerox had some technology that inspired apple, but xerox where doing sweet f. all to bring it to market at an affordable price. Apple did. Apple has been the single most copied and ripped off computer company, bar none, so why bring this garbage point up know that's contrary to pretty much every historical account.
Oh please, don't quote him, his on the ignore list on so many people, spoils it for the rest of us. to read his inane comments via proxy..
Yeah, and you base your opinion on what? And what collaborative effort are you talking about? Such huge players as sony, toshiba, hp, haven't managed a collaborative effort for a desktop os in years. Hp will have it's slate using the crap atom, because they didn't even manage to port their interface to arm. MS has just released a supposed updated platform for a mobile os, they 've only managed to release kids phones, oh yeah they have the courrier vapourware too. Nokia sure as heck isn't collaborating with anyone and they are still trying to make do with the best kernel (not being sarki) in symbian, but the worst ui.
So where exactly do you see a collaboration in the horizon?
As for google, sure they have a great platform for geeks and hackers, if only their ui and phones didn't look like crap, and they had some system for quality control over their apps, or some way for a uniform ui in their os, but they don't. And if google is such an innovative force to be reckoned with where's their tablet? Not even in vapourware design stage. They were too busy taking notes in these apple board meetings, but too lazy to get a half decent product out?
Oh yeah but they 'll be gracing the world with a voice control app, and some turn by turn navigation for cheapskates that don't bother buying a real turn by turn navigation made by pros... wow how innovative google is... and still their search engine is pretty much where it was in 2000....
To all the google fan-boys and apple haters who insist on wasting their time in mac specific forums (obviously out of some strange sense of interest or jealousy.. inferiority complex perhaps?):
To be fair, macUser2007 claims to be a recent convert to Hate-ism...
{Edit: Oops, seems I spoke too soon. Looking back into macUser2007's posting history one finds these posts amongst his very first ones here at MacRumors back in 2007:
Reading through some of the comments, I get the feeling all Steve Jobs has to do, is issue a press-release call for a gathering in Guyana, free Kool-Aid included.
Then there'll be a lot fewer, and perhaps more sensible, posts here
But you are all smug in the Church of the Apple, 'cause you KNOW Steve will save you. Have another Kool Aid.
This same type of post continues throughout the intervening three years. Of course, upon reflection that seems to be a common MO of the Apple haters - - establish your cred by saying you bought every product Apple ever created, then proceed to say how bad they are.}
Stay living in fear
..anyway, I'm no iPhone user yet, but I would have thought with the vast amount of apps in the app store, there would be loads of competing turn by turn nav apps, how come there isn't? apple strict censorship?
I think me and another poster pointed out why you don't see it. The GPS on the iPhone (at least the 3G, haven't tried the 3Gs since I don't have one) just isn't reliable enough to really make an app like that all that useful. You're still better off using a real, dedicated GPS.
The GPS on the iphone is useful for stuff like telling you what is nearby (when you are sitting still or just need to know general area so it's great for apps like theater and restaurant finders). Or giving you directions from where you are to somewhere else (basically giving you a map, showing you the best route, but not actually talking you along that route cause it won't update where you are quick enough to be able to rely on). It really does make the phone very useful by knowing where the phone is.
But it tends to not update quick enough to really be able to be useful for turn by turn, at least by car (sometimes it does but this is nowhere near reliable that it will. Admittedly it seems fine at tracking where I walked but I'm going slow enough it probably has time to update enough. Evne then sometimes it messes up tracking me).
On top of that, the turn by turn software/services I've seen for it are so expensive you could just save your money and buy a dedicated GPS unit in a year of subscription services. Which will do a better job of turn by turn instructions.
Oh please, don't quote him, his on the ignore list on so many people, spoils it for the rest of us. to read his inane comments via proxy..
I deeply apologize - thank you for pointing that out.
Attrition through irrelevance, in this particular case, seems to have taken effect here
This is pathetic. You can't respond coherently, so you spend time digging up old posts....
Of course, if your comprehension level was higher, you may have noticed that my comments were on a topic discussing Apple locking 3rd party developers out with iPhone update 1.11.
I was responding to the retards who insisted that they are happy that Apple broke other people's iPhones, because nobody should be allowed to have Cut&Paste on their iPhone....
Obviously, things haven't changed.