Questions for those that received TETHERING notice from AT&T

[8CoreWhore]

Here we go again. The same old misconception. It's not based off usage. Carriers can tell by looking at IP/TCP packets. Their unlimited plan is limited to your iPhone usage and tethering usage is another story. So there is not point of "demonstrating" it.

Please take a look of this thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1083774/).

It clears up on some of the concepts.

What I'm saying is - deny it, deny it, deny it.... no matter what.... make them PROVE it. Make them actually say, "WE HAVE PROOF". Make them admit the are analyzing your usage in detail and not just bluffing. Tell them it's Pandora. Make them say they know it isn't. Put the burden on them. And I don't want to hear that we can't do that, we can.

Then, if they can't prove it, too bad... if they can't prove it, tell them you're going to file a complaint with the FCC that they are unilaterally changing your wireless plan. It's extortion.

If they CAN prove it, then we need to know that. It might be a violation of customers privacy for them to be snooping around trying to catch people, many of whom are innocent.

I'm basing this on the testimonial above:::



<<I just got off the phone with them and they clearly don't know if I am tethering or not. The lady "Tanya" exclaimed that it was based merely off a spike in usage and that's why it was sent out. I just said I was streaming over Netflix and Pandora and she looked up my account and was like, "2 gigs...that's not a lot" but she did say that after the 27th they will go into "further review" of my contract but she said everything will be good. We'll see what happens, if AT&T boosts up my plan with tethering, I'll just switch to the 2 gig, only time will tell though.

EDIT - she did express the concern that the last thing AT&T wants to do is up someones internet plan, I was really nice with her and calm and she said she took notes of our call so I will report back when everything is all said and done.>>

 

[Applejuiced]

Here we go again. The same old misconception. It's not based off usage. Carriers can tell by looking at IP/TCP packets. Their unlimited plan is limited to your iPhone usage and tethering usage is another story. So there is not point of "demonstrating" it.

Please take a look of this thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1083774/).

It clears up on some of the concepts.

I agree, they can obviously tell if they really want to but are they really going thru all the trouble or just wacking the heavy users?
Cause there's plenty of cases of people getting those messages that claim that they dont tether.

 

[simple20]

Heh. This sounds like a good way to get out of your ATT contract if you're unhappy. If they actually do automatically add that $45 dollar plan.

 

[Applejuiced]

Heh. This sounds like a good way to get out of your ATT contract if you're unhappy. If they actually do automatically add that $45 dollar plan.

That's also a good point brought up.
Would that be a cause to terminate your contract without ETF or not?

 

[8CoreWhore]

Here we go again. The same old misconception. It's not based off usage. Carriers can tell by looking at IP/TCP packets. Their unlimited plan is limited to your iPhone usage and tethering usage is another story. So there is not point of "demonstrating" it.

Please take a look of this thread (https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1083774/).

It clears up on some of the concepts.

Thanks for wasting my time. I read all 68 posts and not one of them clears up anything.

One guy says he has seen, with his eyes, the packets from the iPhone, and the packets from his laptop while tethering, and they are different. He does not show us, or tell us, how they are different.

I'm not saying at&t doesn't have a way to prove it, I'm saying we should make them prove it - otherwise they are bluffing and we should not back down.

These companies are evil, greedy, aholes, and we need to fight them every possible way and stop being such poooosies about it. FIGHT!

 

[Gizmotoy]

I agree, they can obviously tell if they really want to but are they really going thru all the trouble or just wacking the heavy users?
Cause there's plenty of cases of people getting those messages that claim that they dont tether.

And the other way around. I tether fairly regularly, and I don't think I've ever gone over about 1GB on an unlimited plan. My average is probably closer to 800MB. I did not get the text everyone's talking about.

 

[hunter x az]

I'm glad AT&T is cracking down. Circumventing a paid service is tantamount to piracy. It's not ethical in any regard. I don't want to hear the "I pay for my unlimited data so I should be able to use it however I want!"

That's not what your contract with AT&T says.

Don't like it? Find another carrier.

 

[Geckotek]

Is this even legal?

Most likely.

Is circumventing their system to avoid paying for a service they clearly expect you to pay for legal? Most likely not. At the very least its against your TOS (which I guess doesn't make it illegal??....but it breaks the agreement).

Before AT&T had a tethering plan, I was tempted to jailbreak and use it. As soon as they offered a tethering plan is when it went from a grey area to black and white.

 

[8CoreWhore]

I'm glad AT&T is cracking down. Circumventing a paid service is tantamount to piracy. It's not ethical in any regard. I don't want to hear the "I pay for my unlimited data so I should be able to use it however I want!"

That's not what your contract with AT&T says.

Don't like it? Find another carrier.

You have a slave mentality. Corporate subservience.

 

[gngan]

I don't work in a telecom company so i can't tell if it's really that hard to tell if you are tethering or not. But i guess it shouldn't be that hard for carrier to tell whether or not if you are tethering.

I think I've got an idea how to tell if you are tethering or not.

1)Log in to your gmail account using your home internet. In gmail, you can check what IP you are using to log in. Remember that.

2)Use your iPhone and tether your computer and log into gmail and see the IP that is logging in.

It should be a different. Telecom obviously know all the IP you are using and used and therefore can tell if you are tethering or not. Maybe there's a system where it notify the engineer that this phone is tethering and check if it has a tethering plan?

 

[Dooger]

The modify usage clause is legal garbage. Just because you put a phrase in a contract doesn't mean it's legally enforceable. In contact law, the US does not recognize punitive damages, which that clause clearly is. AT&T has to either prove damages, or if the damages would be difficult to quantify, they could have stuck in a clause specifically what the damages will be for a given breach and that damage be a reasonable estimation of the damages at the time of the signing of the contract.

And...?

None of that stops the language from being in the TOS.

Pwned. Your initial response to me was an (erroneous) affirmation of its legality. And please give us your definition of 'modify'. Can they modify their TOC to take your house? Think that's legal? Nope, the 'modify' clause is legally unenforecable. gco is right, it's garbage.
In all likelihood they start suspending accounts rather than illegally taking money from people.

 

[princealfie]

Maybe the solution for this issue would be IP spoofing or masking?

 

[tshort]

First, they are not "adding" a $45 plan, they are changing your current $30 plan to a $25 + $20 plan - it's a difference of $15, not $45.

Second, although I doubt they do this, it's possible to detect this accurately with assistance from the phone. IP datagrams can be tagged in a way to identify them as normal application data (i.e. using the iPhone's TCP/IP or UDP stacks) or tethered data (i.e. not directly using the iPhone's IP stack via internal routing/raw socket). This can be done through bit twiddling, VLANs, etc., before being transmitted. If the carrier detects such information, then WITHOUT deep packet inspection, and thus WITHOUT invading your privacy, the carrier can know if you're tethering.

Of course, I have no idea if they are doing this, but goes to show that tethering can be detected without guessing.

 

[Howdr]

So far no one, so far as I know from looking at multiple forums, has either received anything with low data usage, i.e. under 1gb, or from using TetherMe. However, someone posted this, which may be of interest.

ATT internal info concerning tethering:......................




As of March 17, we will be sending notification to subscribers who are currently tethering without the appropriate and required smartphone data plan which is DataPro 4GB for Smartphone Tethering.

Process to Bring Account in Line With Policy
..............

Why Are We Doing This?

Customers tethering without the appropriate data plan are not in line with the requirements of their Wireless Customer Agreement. Review this from the Related Links section.



When Does The Communication Start?

The notifications begin to go out on March 17, 2011.



Which Customers Are We Addressing?
...............

We will be notifying customers in stages, however, the plan is to eventually identify and notify all customers tethering with a smartphone, regardless of the type, without the required data plan.



How Will They Be Notified?

Notifications are sent by e-mail, SMS, and a letter sent through U.S. mail.
.............

Customers may either bring their account up to date as requested or they may choose to discontinue tethering and remain on their current data plan.

If they continue to tether and do not change their data plan to DataPro 4GB for Smartphone Tethering, a second notification will be sent informing them that we have moved them to DataPro 4GB for Smartphone Tethering, as we informed them in the first communication.

Secondary notifications will also be sent via U.S. mail, e-mail, and SMS. Refer to the Related Links section to review samples.



Frequently Asked Questions

Which plan are customers automatically moved to if they do not bring their account in line with our policy?
They are moved to 4GB for Smartphone Tethering. The $45.00/month plan includes 4GB of data per month; $10.00 for each additional GB thereafter, added automatically as needed. Mobile Hotspot capabilities are included for compatible smartphones. Refer to the Related Links section for more information.

How does this work with customers currently on a Smartphone Data Unlimited plan?
Handle business as usual. We do not offer a tethering option for subscribers who wish to remain on their Smartphone Data Unlimited plan. However, the customer can keep their unlimited data plan if they stop tethering. If they wish to continue to tether, they will need to move to DataPro 4GB for Smartphone Tethering to align with our policy.

Once a customer moves to DataPro 4GB for Smartphone Tethering, whether they do so on their own or we automatically update their account, the customer will no longer have the option to return to the Smartphone Data Unlimited plan.


Similar to date as well: SIM Swapping

Appropriate data plans are required to use Mobile Broadband devices (laptop, tablets, or AT&T Mobile Hotspot devices) on the AT&T Network.

Effective March 16, 2011, AT&T will systematically enforce this policy by alerting customers with unlimited data plans when they take the SIM from their current smartphone, QMP, or basic phone and place it into a Mobile Broadband device to access data unlimited, that an appropriate data plan is required.

..........................
If the customer continues to use their smartphone SIM in their Mobile Broadband device, their data service will be suspended until the end of the billing period, unless the customer calls into Customer Care to add the appropriate data plan.

Note: If the customer does not contact Customer Care to add a plan, their data service will be restored for their smartphone at the beginning of the new billing cycle. If SIM swapping activity is detected during the next billing cycle, the data service on the account will be suspended again.

Is my customer eligible for a data credit while his data service is suspended?
No.

Can my customer continue this process each billing cycle?
No. If the customer continues the out of policy behavior, AT&T reserves the right to remove the unlimited smartphone data plan from the account.

OK the internal memo now.............Do the people who say At&t will not FIRE you or continue to look for out of contract tethering on a regular basis is not true?

LOL I think those idiots who thought it was ok to Download 90GB and 120GB a month are now SOL, and should be owned by At&t

but this ruins Unlimited for the rest of us, it is clear with this action

Unlimited is now dead, you go over 5gb a month and your then flagged as a tether

I'm telling you that this is the secondary purpose, in At&t's eyes unlimited is evil, it causes users to think they have unlimited data and should be able to use 100gb a month and abuse the Data.

You say Verizon won't do this? Then your a FOOL!
Verizon has already said they will Throttle high use people. Make CDMA slower then it is now so Unusable.


Why did this happen? 2% of 15 million Iphone owners and who knows how many Android users are abusing the data plans

at least 300,000 users

I said it before

300,000 abusers are switched off of $30 a month or made to add $20 tether plan to the 2gb $25 plan

revenue generated? 200,000 at extra $15 for the 25 plus 20 dropping unlimited is 3 million dollars, 100,000 add the $20 plan generates 2 million dollars, that is 5 million dollars a month or 60 million dollars a year in lost revenue to At&t

if you could increase revenues by potential 50 to 60,000,000 year do you not think At&t CEO would say awesome?

 

[MikePA]

The only people worse than those who Copy and Paste from another source and don't reformat it are those who then quote it. Next time, toss in a huge, inline picture.

 

[Applejuiced]

And the other way around. I tether fairly regularly, and I don't think I've ever gone over about 1GB on an unlimited plan. My average is probably closer to 800MB. I did not get the text everyone's talking about.

Same here.
I tether once a month if that and for about 200-300mb
Never got a notice either.

 

[Howdr]

The only people worse than those who Copy and Paste from another source and don't reformat it are those who then quote it. Next time, toss in a huge, inline picture.

Its an internal At&t notice i think the idea was to let us see what they see?

 

[wackulous]

I'm glad AT&T is cracking down. Circumventing a paid service is tantamount to piracy. It's not ethical in any regard. I don't want to hear the "I pay for my unlimited data so I should be able to use it however I want!"

That's not what your contract with AT&T says.

Don't like it? Find another carrier.

yea, since corporations are known for being SOOO ethical...GTFOH!!!

 

[palmerc2]

Thanks for wasting my time. I read all 68 posts and not one of them clears up anything.

One guy says he has seen, with his eyes, the packets from the iPhone, and the packets from his laptop while tethering, and they are different. He does not show us, or tell us, how they are different.

I'm not saying at&t doesn't have a way to prove it, I'm saying we should make them prove it - otherwise they are bluffing and we should not back down.

These companies are evil, greedy, aholes, and we need to fight them every possible way and stop being such poooosies about it. FIGHT!

Fight club: favorite movie of all time. So many good concepts in that movie. Holy **** I love that movie.

I'm sure somebody somewhere is creating a tweak right now to fool the system of what kind of packets are being sent back to the towers.

For what it's worth, I just tethered basically for my first time on Monday and didnt receive any notice. Used about 400MB I think

 

[Applejuiced]

yea, since corporations are known for being SOOO ethical...GTFOH!!!

I know, poor AT&T
They're making billions of $$ a year nickel and diming people.
Let me see, do I feel bad for them?

 

[Mr. Chewbacca]

Same here.
I tether once a month if that and for about 200-300mb
Never got a notice either.

+1

I cant say that I'll miss the people that use 30+gb a month

 

[Applejuiced]

+1

I cant say that I'll miss the people that use 30+gb a month

That is nuts IMO.
Abusing it like that makes no sense, some even disconnect their homes internet and use the iphone solely.
That's a little too much but we'll see how all this goes.

 

[mytakeontech]

Funny how...

No one answers the main question, how much is your recent data usage for a month?

That itself tells something.

 

[Howdr]

No one answers the main question, how much is your recent data usage for a month?

That itself tells something.

Doesn't matter per the Info we have now, At&t is using account history to flag and then target abusers.

BTW I switched to TetherMe now. its different then MyWI

 

[184550]

Pwned.

That's rich coming from a person who called emoticons childish earlier.

Your initial response to me was an (erroneous) affirmation of its legality. And please give us your definition of 'modify'.

Impossible for me (or you) to say since you or I don't work in ATTs legal department.

Can they modify their TOC to take your house? Think that's legal? Nope, the 'modify' clause is legally unenforecable. gco is right, it's garbage. In all likelihood they start suspending accounts rather than illegally taking money from people.

That's a non sequitur. The situations, TOS/ TOC and services offered/ received/ bought are completely different and in completely different industries.