Quick Takes: Apple's Ecosystem Explained, Crumb-Resistant MacBook Keyboards, and More

[thisisnotmyname]

I followed the link to look at the programming language list.

Javascript at the top is no surprise, it's just so ubiquitous.

Java surprises me, must be a lot of government and IBM programmers in the world. Or is that all due to Android app dev?

Python/php/c#/c++ all expected.

Since when is CSS a "programming language"?

Ruby, good to see Perl programmers grew up

C, because C++ is superfluous when you know how to use structs and remapping of pointers. ;-)

Interesting to see Swift and Objective-C tied given I'd imaging the overwhelming use of each is iOS apps.

I shouldn't but for some reason I feel like Shell and Powershell shouldn't be on this list; I've written some fairly elaborate shell scripts but I've never considered it programming when I did. That's also probably lumping together all the shells (bash, ksh, whatever) which although they're very similar kind of feels like cheating. I'm not a Powershell user but I thought that was more a shell than a language as it supported the usual MS CMD shell stuff plus incorporated some .NET language, seems like maybe that should have been rolled into C# (or VB.net if it's that flavor, I don't know) if they were already combining the various *nix shells. Again, I shouldn't feel that way since it's the same concept as *nix shell with C.

R being on the list is cool, I wonder if that's due to big data expansions or individuals who have statistical analysis needs picking it up over canned stats software.

Typescript, are javascript users finally getting sick of weak types languages? Good.

Golang, because C++ is "hard"

Scala, because Java is "hard" (but at least Go programmers have someone to look down upon)

Perl, I guess the world still has strings that need parsing

Haskell, CS post grads that think C++ is too easy and efficient. What would they do all day if they couldn't debug lazy execution problems?

Lua, must be a lot of WoW add-ons.

 

[heretiq]

Marques Brownlee is a decent enough guy, and his general theory here seems alright, though it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. But I think some of the motivations that he attributes to a few things in this video are a little off.

First of all, he suggests that one of the goals Apple has every time they invent a new product is to gather more of your data, which is a bit specious. Apple sells products, not advertising, so a user’s data does not have the same sinister value for Apple that it does to Google and Amazon.

Secondly, the idea that Apple’s primary motivation is lock-in, rather than giving the user the best possible experience is a projection or speculation, not a fact. ...

...

Thirdly, and this cannot be emphasized enough, every other manufacturer out there would love to keep you in their ecosystem—they just aren’t as good at it!

Well said on all points @sidewinder3000 — the ecosystem lock-in argument is at minimum misapplied or a projection as you’ve stated. I choose the Apple Ecosystem because (a) Apple products individually and collectively meet my needs in a manner that often feels organic to me, and (b) because I trust Apple to respect my personal sovereignty and not to use my data to construct and lock me into an invisible, global coercive ecosystem whose levers are sold to the highest bidder.

 

[ignatius345]

Is think you’re arguing a different point...

You’re saying “don’t avoid a good product that works for you in order to favor an Apple branded solution”. I agree with that. I don’t agree with saying “do avoid a good Apple branded solution that works for you in order to avoid some idea of ‘lock in’”.

I'm not saying that either. If an Apple solution works, great, and if a Google solution works, also great -- but you mentioned the "pain" of changing from one ecosystem to another. I think that's largely avoidable as long as you're careful.

Completely separately from that point, I’m getting increasingly frustrated with Google services lately. More and more functionality is being limited to Chrome browsers only. MacOS calendar had been working nicely with GCal but events now seem HTML encoded and don’t play nice any more.

I never had any luck with GCal and the Mac, and in that instance was so happy to go with iCloud. And the way I use Gmail, it's basically a back-end to Mail

I have OK luck using Google Docs with Safari, but it does seem optimized for Chrome. That said, I find the file organization in Docs straight-up maddening. They seem to have gone with a "silo" approach where Docs and Sheets insanely have different file systems, and Drive just launches one of them. I hate it. I was syncing my whole set up with some software (I forget the name) that basically treated Drive like Dropbox and converted GDocs and Sheets into .docx and .xls files in the Finder -- but in the end I started using Dropbox more since it works better for me.

 

[pdr733]

"A good example of the strength of Apple's ecosystem is iMessage and its coveted blue message bubbles, which have essentially become a status symbol."

IN THE US OF A.
In Europe (apart from the UK which I have no info about), iMessage use is much less widespread among iphone users and it certainly isnt a status symbol. I know that one single example is not representative, but for example I and my sister both have iphones and we message each other on FB Messenger or Viber Messenger, which are the first and second most used messengers in my country, respectively. (Replace these with whatsapp and what I wrote is valid for all countries of continental Europe).

 

[criticasm]

Here's a wild idea Apple - Why don't you admit to your mistake and realize that the butterfly keyboards were an indulgence in Ive's ego (much like the Trash Can Mac was) and go back to the scissor keyswitches?

It's not the butterfly switch, but reduced key travel that's causing the problem. Which obv was done for thinness, but surprising was the patent was lodged before the release of the new Macbook Pros in late 2016. So they were working on a solution to the problem yet still went ahead with a problematic keyboard on the next model???

 

[The Game 161]

"A good example of the strength of Apple's ecosystem is iMessage and its coveted blue message bubbles, which have essentially become a status symbol."

IN THE US OF A.
In Europe (apart from the UK which I have no info about), iMessage use is much less widespread among iphone users and it certainly isnt a status symbol. I know that one single example is not representative, but for example I and my sister both have iphones and we message each other on FB Messenger or Viber Messenger, which are the first and second most used messengers in my country, respectively. (Replace these with whatsapp and what I wrote is valid for all countries of continental Europe).

Well my new girlfriend has a S8 so we use whatsapp and obviously thats who i text the most. Best mate, mum and sister i use imessage but with how good whatsapp is on my macbook pro least i can use whatsapp to text back instead of just my iphone. whatsapp I would say is bigger in the UK even for those with iphones will still use whatsapp. I know sometimes my mate and sister still text via whatsapp

 

[sputnikBA]

the patent for the kb should have got its own thread imo.

 

[nvmls]

I agree. My typing speed and accuracy on my 2017 MBP are noticeably better, coming from a MacBook Air. I also like the keyboard feel much better as well.

Yea, we actually dropped the keyboard altogether and mounted a brick wall next to it, we are typing faster than ever and we can even smash our heads into it, "feels" like the real deal.

 

[citysnaps]

Yea, we actually dropped the keyboard altogether and mounted a brick wall next to it, we are typing faster than ever and we can even smash our heads into it, "feels" like the real deal.

I’m sorry my real-life MBP keyboard experience has irritated you so much that it caused you to indulge with a juvenile reply.

 

[idunn]

This could involve the use of "brushes, wipers, or flaps" that block gaps around key caps.

Apple already had a 'crumb-proof' keyboard, sans wipers, brushes, etc. Perfectly lovely ones in fact, installed on all their prior laptops.

Innovation is fine, change is inevitable—BUT going forward could "improvements" to Apple hardware and software please actually be that?

 

[SeaFox]

Did anyone else read the story headline and think this would be a story about digital camera for a second?

This is what happens when editors forget their history.

 

[nvmls]

I’m sorry my real-life MBP keyboard experience has irritated you so much that it caused you to indulge with a juvenile reply.

Oh no worries, hopefully the next MBKids will make us mature.

 

[brubeast]

While it's good that they may be fixing the dust issue on the keyboards, in my opinion the larger issue is that they are unsatisfying to type on and are offensively loud. Typing on one of these keyboards in a quiet environment is obnoxious and that is very un-Apple of Apple.

These keyboards are nicer to look at than the old ones (no light bleed under the keys for one) but far worse to type on, and I expect better from Apple.

 

[DeepIn2U]

I won't watch the YouTube video, but in general I think the benefits of using an integrated set of tools outweigh the fear of "lock in". You either take the pain all at once when you change from one ecosystem to another, or continuously over time in trying to make tools work together when they weren't meant to. I'll choose the former.

Other competitors are getting very good at offering competitive priducts services and soon synergies.

If a decent Android Watch with sweet slick design and good health and workout tracking can happen and great theirs party apps with forward going and looking support and adjustments I may take a look. Android as a mobile OS is very good, UI layout is just as sugar coated apps are looking just as well designed now.

I do agree there is a LOT more end user control and extensive use capabilities in Android than in iOS I just need it to be EASY to Use and reliable. I do not wish to tinker and mess about an OS to do seemingly common features. Right now a messaging app that doesn’t keep getting screwed around with (Google get with the program)!

Marques Brownlee is a decent enough guy, and his general theory here seems alright, though it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. But I think some of the motivations that he attributes to a few things in this video are a little off.

First of all, he suggests that one of the goals Apple has every time they invent a new product is to gather more of your data, which is a bit specious. Apple sells products, not advertising, so a user’s data does not have the same sinister value for Apple that it does to Google and Amazon.

Secondly, the idea that Apple’s primary motivation is lock-in, rather than giving the user the best possible experience is a projection or speculation, not a fact. Apple didn’t invent the W1 chip to lock people into the ecosystem, they did it to make the wireless experience better and smoother because the existing Bluetooth and chip technologies in the marketplace couldn’t do what they wanted. This is true a lot of the time—Apple gets into businesses or areas where the current technology isn’t good enough. Texting sucked so they fixed it and made it better. But the reason they didn’t make Messages or FaceTime available for other formats first and foremost is that they don’t control the hardware and software of Android and other phone makers, (and there’s a lot of cheap hardware out there) so they cannot assure a high level customer experience the way they traditionally like to.

It all goes back to the early days when a lot of third party companies didn’t make hardware/software that was Mac compatible, so Jobs and Apple often had to roll up their sleeves and make some of their own hardware and software out of necessity, lest Mac buyers might be so underserved that they leave the platform.

Thirdly, and this cannot be emphasized enough, every other manufacturer out there would love to keep you in their ecosystem—they just aren’t as good at it!

You do realize Apple does collect data on what you use their products and services for and how don’t you?! That’s what Marques Brownlee was talking about, not that apple wants to sell your data to 3rd parties lol.

Samsung is pretty much there with their ecosystem and if you haven’t been paying enough attention have a much greater potential:

Fridge,
Stove/oven/microwave,
Food delivery services (soon to come to USA but haven’t thought of trying into user setup automated ordering of certain products and alerts with the smart fridge: aka milk is low or empty next order it’s auto added for purchase),
Watches - about 3-5 of them (choice),
True wireless headphones/earbuds,
Etc with a touch interface!!

Apple should be learning from the threads of happy ecosystem users here and their purchases and history at their stores. An example Apple sells 3 watches: aluminum, ceramic, and stainless steel. They sell them in 2 sizes: 42mm and another size which escapes me at the moment. Yet they sell a huge plethora of Bands and certain features of the display or built in apps are restricted to certain “models” for marketing reasons. Nike+ workout and display is only on that model, why can’t Hermes buyers have this, haven’t they paid enough $$?! I can buy a Hermes band to put on my Nike+ for the occasions I’d like my watch to suit my fashion or attire (suit, etc) but I cannot get a Hermes watch UI display for time on my Nike+ . Think about that with an open mind and you’ll see just how dumb that is, yet we all chose based on the marketing and currently Apple’s Watch IS THE BEST out there. For how long nobody knows.

Although I work in a Windows world, and have cut my tech knowledge on Windows and I support OSX in the past, I found it much easier to use OSX at home (Power Mac G4, G5, then Mac Mini 2012), than I do now with MacOS. I cannot explain why. I’m finding it hard to justify spending $500 more for a MacBook Pro 13” with TB than a Lenovo T470s or a T480s at same prices as MBP and each has ThunderBolt 3. I’m on the fence at the moment switch between a 2011 MBA 13” and Lenovo x240 12.5” (both same internal and external resolutions) and I don’t use Thunderbolt.

I’m hoked on iPhone and Watch and probably AirPods (if I didn’t have to wait until late April early May to get them in black from Colorware). I seriously dislike iOS backups taking so much of my 5GB iCloud data with multiple over-the-air backups vs just 1 backup with delta backups.

I see Apple’s walled garden or ecosystem as protectionism yet done so beautifully we see it as synergistically woven into a paradise. Maybe I’m just a long term visitor that hasn’t made my bed yet and still in the guest house.

 

[doctor-don]

Crumb-resistant AND liquid-resistant keyboard skin - S K I N.

 

[jerryk]

Crumb resistant. Why not make them water resistant like Lenovo did years ago.

 

[Tech198]

Did anyone else read the story headline and think this would be a story about digital camera for a second?

This is what happens when editors forget their history.

lol... I'll take that on board.

 

[dweezle3]

He’s actually a terrible tech reviewer. I have no clue how he got so popular. He’s generic and super biased.

Would you mind explaining this a bit more? He got popular by consistently putting out high quality videos, like most other popular YouTubers. Liking Spotify more than Apple Music or preferring Google's better speech recognition and larger skillset over Siri's doesn't necessarily make him overly biased; it makes sense to prefer something that works better and more consistently.

 

[Baymowe335]

Would you mind explaining this a bit more? He got popular by consistently putting out high quality videos, like most other popular YouTubers. Liking Spotify more than Apple Music or preferring Google's better speech recognition and larger skillset over Siri's doesn't necessarily make him overly biased; it makes sense to prefer something that works better and more consistently.

1 example. When reviewing the iPhone X, instead of applauding the iPhone X screen for its perfect color accuracy and being the highest rated, he simply said, “Good job Samsung.” He didn’t bother explaining Apple’s design specs for their suppliers, such as the screen or that Apple has an extremely high bar for components.

I’ve watched a lot of his reviews. He really generic. I don’t know what else to tell you.

 

[Analog Kid]

I'm not saying that either. If an Apple solution works, great, and if a Google solution works, also great -- but you mentioned the "pain" of changing from one ecosystem to another. I think that's largely avoidable as long as you're careful.

Ah. I see what you mean. I generally agree with that point as well.

The idea of "lock in" though is predicated on the idea that there's pain involved in transitioning-- that's the lock. If there wasn't pain in leaving the ecosystem you wouldn't get locked in and if there wasn’t any pain in using products outside the ecosystem then you wouldn’t have to make an effort to avoid it.

It sounds like you’re questioning the whole premise, and I agree I personally don’t feel locked in to the Apple ecosystem— with one notable exception: changing my email address would hurt.

 

[tresmith]

I'm all for an ecosystem as long as it works. Apple is the only one that comes close to that.

 

[Black Tiger]

Marques Brownlee is a decent enough guy, and his general theory here seems alright, though it’s nothing we haven’t heard before. But I think some of the motivations that he attributes to a few things in this video are a little off.

First of all, he suggests that one of the goals Apple has every time they invent a new product is to gather more of your data, which is a bit specious. Apple sells products, not advertising, so a user’s data does not have the same sinister value for Apple that it does to Google and Amazon.

Secondly, the idea that Apple’s primary motivation is lock-in, rather than giving the user the best possible experience is a projection or speculation, not a fact. Apple didn’t invent the W1 chip to lock people into the ecosystem, they did it to make the wireless experience better and smoother because the existing Bluetooth and chip technologies in the marketplace couldn’t do what they wanted. This is true a lot of the time—Apple gets into businesses or areas where the current technology isn’t good enough. Texting sucked so they fixed it and made it better. But the reason they didn’t make Messages or FaceTime available for other formats first and foremost is that they don’t control the hardware and software of Android and other phone makers, (and there’s a lot of cheap hardware out there) so they cannot assure a high level customer experience the way they traditionally like to.

It all goes back to the early days when a lot of third party companies didn’t make hardware/software that was Mac compatible, so Jobs and Apple often had to roll up their sleeves and make some of their own hardware and software out of necessity, lest Mac buyers might be so underserved that they leave the platform.

Thirdly, and this cannot be emphasized enough, every other manufacturer out there would love to keep you in their ecosystem—they just aren’t as good at it!

So many great points, especially regarding motivations. People act as though Apple deliberately creates a walled garden just to trap customers, but really it’s just about making their own products work together, which they do better than anyone else. Anyone who wants to leave the ecosystem can do so, but the alternative is usually not compelling enough. So yes, people stay for the ecosystem, but that’s the most important feature and simply isn’t matched by the competition.

 

[The Game 161]

So many great points, especially regarding motivations. People act as though Apple deliberately creates a walled garden just to trap customers, but really it’s just about making their own products work together, which they do better than anyone else. Anyone who wants to leave the ecosystem can do so, but the alternative is usually not compelling enough. So yes, people stay for the ecosystem, but that’s the most important feature and simply isn’t matched by the competition.

Well people can say they can use devices from android to IOS but i just can't see it that at all. I have my watch/iphone/ipad/macbook pro and the fact you can use one and have things like reminders sync with everything is perfect.

 

[Black Tiger]

I know what you mean. It's like how that one company was recently found out to be deceiving phone owners into thinking their phones were getting old and slow which lead to them buying newer phones. Turns out the operating system was throttling the phones because the battery was getting worn out.

It would have been nice if owners were notified that the phone battery needed replacing vs hiding that info. Instead of people paying $79 for a battery replacement, this company was making even more money from people who were deceived into paying hundred$ of dollars for a new phone.

Name one Android phone that doesn’t get slower over time due to battery degradation. Time to move on from this nonsense. Apple has made it right. Samsung would never offer an apology, just exploding batteries.
[doublepost=1520767012][/doublepost]

Yeah I’m calling BS on that. Question: can the Apple Watch or HomePod be used without an iPhone?
Second Question: can Google Docs, Google Home, Samsung Gear or Google Play be used without an android device, or even with an iPhone? Yes.

So yes. Apple has built very high walls around their “garden.” And it’s fine and cool being inside, but you’re either totally in or totally out.

It makes absolutely no sense that you are comparing cross-platform software like Google docs to iPhone hardware accessories like the HomePod and watch. And you more or less disprove the walled garden by indicating that Google’s products work just fine with Apple’s. So if I can use Samsung gear and an iPhone, where’s the wall? Is the wall around the HomePod and watch? Because those are accessories, and there are plenty of Android-only accessories such as Android Auto, so let’s not have a double standard please.
[doublepost=1520767623][/doublepost]I’m really getting tired of this walled garden myth. There is nothing tying anyone to Apple’s products if they don’t like them. How is an enhancement a detriment? Why WOULDNT Apple make its own products compatible and complementary? It would make a lot less sense if they didn’t. Is Android incompatible with ChromeOS? No. And yet that’s not a “walled garden”? I will concede that the watch and HomePod cannot be used with other products, but why would you want to? They are marketed as accessories for Apple’s existing products, not standalone devices. Would you complain about bmw rims not fitting a Toyota vehicle? Do you complain that a hamburger bun doesn’t work well with a hotdog? Come on people. It is very easy for someone to own an iPhone, an android tablet and a windows computer. No problem. Is it going to be as good as having All-Apple products or all-Microsoft products? Of course not. Different companies. It is laughable that Apple’s attempts to improve user experience across multiple products is seen as a problem rather than a tremendous benefit.

 

[mgauss7]

In addition to our standalone articles covering the latest Apple news and rumors at MacRumors, this Quick Takes column provides a bite-sized recap of other headlines about Apple and its competitors on weekdays.

Friday, March 9

Apple's ecosystem explained: YouTube tech reviewer Marques Brownlee explains why Apple's ecosystem of products and services is so strong. He also advises against becoming too locked into just one ecosystem.

Commentary: A good example of the strength of Apple's ecosystem is iMessage and its coveted blue message bubbles, which have essentially become a status symbol. As silly as it may sound, there are a countless number of tweets that mock green bubbles, which is the color Apple uses to display standard text messages.

AAPL sets all-time high closing price of $179.98: The previous record was $179.26, set on January 18, 2018. Apple's overall all-time high remains $180.62, set during intraday trading on February 28, 2018. AAPL has been on the rise since bottoming out at $150.24 on February 9 amid a wider stock market selloff.

Commentary: Apple shares have technically traded for higher prices, but today's record high factors in multiple stock splits, including a 7-for-1 split in 2014. Apple's market cap now hovers around the $915 billion mark.

Timing of Apple's rumored March event: Apple typically invites the media to its special events roughly 10 to 12 days beforehand, so if there is a March event on its agenda, then we'll likely hear about it soon.
2015: Thursday, February 26 invites -> Monday, March 9 event
2016: Thursday, March 10 invites -> Monday, March 21 event
2017: No event.
2018: Thursday, March 15 invites -> Monday, March 26 event (?)
Commentary: The big question is whether Apple will hold a media event or make its announcements via press releases as it did last year. Rumored products that could debut this month include a new iPhone SE, lower-priced 9.7-inch iPad and MacBook Air models, and the AirPower charging mat, along with iOS 11.3.

Other Reading:
Swift is now the world's tenth most used programming language, tied with Objective-C, according to analyst firm RedMonk's analysis of GitHub and Stack Overflow data. Apple's open source programming language was released at WWDC in June 2014.

Apple has applied to patent a crumb-resistant keyboard: The patent application describes a MacBook keyboard with mechanisms that prevent contaminant ingress, which is a fancy way of saying dirt and crumbs. This could involve the use of "brushes, wipers, or flaps" that block gaps around key caps.
For more Apple news and rumors coverage, visit our Front Page, Mac Blog, and iOS Blog. Also visit our forums to join in the discussion.

Article Link: Quick Takes: Apple's Ecosystem Explained, Crumb-Resistant MacBook Keyboards, and More

Per my prediction google “Time Magazine Apple Must”, from 2005, regards from Cortland