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Your friendly local Mom & Pop OEM PC maker offers more than three models of headless PC. Apple is the 4th largest supplier of PCs in the world, and they can't offer a regular desktop?
Of course they could. But it’s a very small market for Apple. Mac customers by far prefer laptops—80% of units sold—or iMac, another 10-15 points of the remaining 20. What’s left is 1-2 million units, split between Mac mini, iMac Pro and Mac Pro. That leaves precious few units to any one of those existing models.

Apple’s a huge company: 500+ retail stores, 130,000+ employees and over $2 billion per month in operating expenses, including $1.5 billion per month in R&D expense. Those large expenses have to be covered, and that makes Apple products relatively expensive.

If Apple offered a cut-down version of the Mac Pro, say four PCIe slots and six DIMM sockets, and Core-X instead of Xeon, it would save Apple maybe $500. You’d still be looking at a $5,000+ machine. Still interested?
 
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...but (as you say yourself) "Unix" software runs pretty much identically on Linux - where Linux/Unix software falls down is on graphical/interactive apps, esp. "big name" ones. The real advantage of Mac is the combination of Unix with MacOS' UI and range of graphical desktop applications (MS, ProTools, FCPX, Logic, Adobe CS etc.) - which is why MacBooks are so good for "full stack" web development. If you're only going to use it as a headless server running "backend" software, the MacOS advantage goes away and you might as well get any old generic PC server to lock away in your machine room.
Yep, Unix is nice on a personal computer. For heavier backend stuff, macOS is definitely a disadvantage vs Linux. I even keep a headless Linux VM running on my Macs for open source stuff that's annoying to install in macOS.
 
I understand that there might be some freelancer who chooses to buy a $30K Mac to run his favorite software, but from an enterprise point of view, is it financially sound to buy those Mac Pros? Isn't it cheaper to build a custom one?
 
I do not understand why people in this discussion equate "Rack Mounted" with server or Web server.
I do not think it would make economically sense to use a Mac Pro as a Web Server; actually, it would not make sense
to use any Mac as a Web Server (unless of course you have already paied for it and you do not want to throw it away).
Apple know it very well and dropped out of the server market, beacause the Apple ecosystem do not bring any added value in this specific marker, that is today owned essentially by Linux, and a smaller part by Window Server.

Racks are used in a lot of places, including laboratories, music and video studios. In a lot of places it make a lot of sense to put a Mac Pro in rack, *even* in a home/projet studio (rich enough to buy it :).
Another use case is where you want to install multiple work station in a reduced space, or if you want a number of slave
Mac Pro (well, a big hollywood studio may very well use VEP on multiple Mac Pro :).
Yes, you can also buy Mac Pro as computational servers, but that would be a niche in a niche.


Maurizio
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I understand that there might be some freelancer who chooses to buy a $30K Mac to run his favorite software, but from an enterprise point of view, is it financially sound to buy those Mac Pros? Isn't it cheaper to build a custom one?

Well, enterprises do not like to pay somebody to choose the components, assemble the machine and support it, in a way that garantie a high availability; unless they are in this market and have the specific skills, tools and labs, of course.
Total cost of ownership is not only the acquisition price.
 
It's great to finally see Apple thinking about deploying servers into racks for Data Centre use, however all that money and only one power supply? Perhaps they need to start thinking more about resilience.
 
It's great to finally see Apple thinking about deploying servers into racks for Data Centre use, however all that money and only one power supply? Perhaps they need to start thinking more about resilience.

See the post immediately above yours.

The bulk of these aren't going to be deployed in a super high data clergy data center. It is the tower model in a different container. Exact same board. Power supply. options ( besides wheels .... because can put the wheels on your cart/rack ).

The ones that go into continuous integration/build server farms ... same thing.

Cloud hosted dev servers ( largely run with lots of Mac Minis now). Not to much "new" here when it comes to redundant power supplies.

This really isn't trying to be the rebirth of the last XServe models. Some folks may end up using it like that, but it really isn't the point.
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Forgive me please, but I’m struggling to see why Apple are charging a thousand dollars extra for a different case? Can anyone enlighten me as to the reason?

It is $500 more. Apple is charging $400 more for wheels. So if skipping wheels because this is going into a cart/rack with wheels then only a $100 more. Which isn't all that much.

The case is different. But also has a different front ( instead of top ) I/O board. Doubtful the two variants will sell in the same numbers. So one of those I/O boards is going to "cost more" (reach lower economy of scale).

The may be an additional backside (well bottom in this case) blower in this model also.
 
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Is that some kind of filter in front of the fans? The tower version does not have anything in front of the fans?

It probably isn't a filter. There is "stuff".

One. The tower version has the top I/O board in the top "plate" . The rack version has an I/O board in the front. ( because that is where the button sockets , and Wi-Fi moved to). There is a ribbon cable that connects the top/front board in both context. The front board one is longer and needs to be routed around.

I think they may need some room for air to get pack that front I/O board to make its way to the backside.

Two there appears to be a pair of screws near the bottom (relative to the picture) fan. My guess that is the screws having to do with detaching the bottom of the case. ( that is how will get to RAM DIMMs. Remember this is a two sided motherboard; not one. The tower case lifts off on both sides when you remove it. This Rack case the sides are highly likely independent. ( the picture itself shows on side off and the other on. ).

So also need some space to do work to get access if the cover retention screws are on the inside.

So if rack system slides out on rails then bottom could open on a hinge ( so don't "fall off"). Go underneath update RAM or modules and reverse and slide the rack system back in.


Three. If they are trying to hit a standard depth for the rack ( so the rear ports aren't too far recessed versus the other racked elements ) then they may have "extra" space to kill. Racked stuff is most often hooked to other systems in the rack. ( e.g., drive storage , networking , another Mac Pro , etc. )
Apple is using exactly the same mainboard here. Even the J2i SATA assembly flange goes into an same sized mount point. It is the same thing turned sideways. So why would the tower probably be exactly the same height as a standard rack case?


Four, coming back to the backside air flow. The upper right corner may be an additional blower for the backside. (black, flat thing that appears to be under the board a bit also. ). Coupled to the slight blockage by the front I/O board they may need to blow air pass the RAM DIMMs before the other backside blower pulls it across the backside of the board and out the rear.

Or may be taking into account perhaps getting heating from the bottom of the case from an adjancent rack module that cool as well as the Mac Pro.


The rack version is a little taller than the tower is wide.
 
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Of course they could. But it’s a very small market for Apple. Mac customers by far prefer laptops—80% of units sold—or iMac, another 10-15 points of the remaining 20. What’s left is 1-2 million units, split between Mac mini, iMac Pro and Mac Pro. That leaves precious few units to any one of those existing models.

Apple’s a huge company: 500+ retail stores, 130,000+ employees and over $2 billion per month in operating expenses, including $1.5 billion per month in R&D expense. Those large expenses have to be covered, and that makes Apple products relatively expensive.

If Apple offered a cut-down version of the Mac Pro, say four PCIe slots and six DIMM sockets, and Core-X instead of Xeon, it would save Apple maybe $500. You’d still be looking at a $5,000+ machine. Still interested?
Your argument doesn’t make sense, Apple could absolutely build a tower computer with PCI expansion with i5, i7 and i9 options for way under $5000, I’m not sure where you are getting component pricing. And the PowerMacs had options under $2,000. And do you think that Apples desktop line doesn’t sell as well as the portable line because there is a gap in the desktop line?
 
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Does the average consumer have a rack to put this in? 🤔

Rack mounting Macs is far from unusual even for home offices - mine in a Sonnet RackMac enclosure:

Synology RS217 BW.jpg
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Still wish they had a lower end version, pro-sumer version. I understand the need for the professionals, but for some that do a lot of 4K video editing, but it’s not their job and they would rather not have an all in one iMac Pro?
 
Still wish they had a lower end version, pro-sumer version. I understand the need for the professionals, but for some that do a lot of 4K video editing, but it’s not their job and they would rather not have an all in one iMac Pro?
Yeah and for me, a Mac mini with a eGPU doesn’t cut it. I don’t want a system and all my drives and wires hanging off the computer taking up space on my desk. Unfortunately, I think the Macs days are numbered so I would be surprised to see a completely new Mac from Apple. I hope that I’m wrong but it happened to the Apple II when the Macintosh came out.
 
Rack mounting Macs is far from unusual even for home offices - mine in a Sonnet RackMac enclosure:

That product was the best thing to happen to the Mac Mini if you ask me.

Yeah and for me, a Mac mini with a eGPU doesn’t cut it. I don’t want a system and all my drives and wires hanging off the computer taking up space on my desk. Unfortunately, I think the Macs days are numbered so I would be surprised to see a completely new Mac from Apple. I hope that I’m wrong but it happened to the Apple II when the Macintosh came out.

Same here, and I've thought about going the iMac route and have changed my mind every time.

Maybe one day Apple will either find a way to bring the price of these down to sub $2000 or at the very least bless us with a model that's not as heavily spec'd.
 
It's great to finally see Apple thinking about deploying servers into racks for Data Centre use, however all that money and only one power supply? Perhaps they need to start thinking more about resilience.
Surprised me too on the single PSU.

I have dual 750W supplies on my XSERVE 3,1 for redundancy and sleep better at night....
 
Of course they could. But it’s a very small market for Apple. Mac customers by far prefer laptops—80% of units sold—or iMac, another 10-15 points of the remaining 20. What’s left is 1-2 million units, split between Mac mini, iMac Pro and Mac Pro. That leaves precious few units to any one of those existing models.

Apple’s a huge company: 500+ retail stores, 130,000+ employees and over $2 billion per month in operating expenses, including $1.5 billion per month in R&D expense. Those large expenses have to be covered, and that makes Apple products relatively expensive.

If Apple offered a cut-down version of the Mac Pro, say four PCIe slots and six DIMM sockets, and Core-X instead of Xeon, it would save Apple maybe $500. You’d still be looking at a $5,000+ machine. Still interested?
Of course people vastly prefer laptops when Apple does not offer a proper consumer desktop.

But Apple does not offer a proper laptop anymore either, so some just dumped the platform.

And the OS has become more idiosyncratic anyway.
 
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Yeah and for me, a Mac mini with a eGPU doesn’t cut it. I don’t want a system and all my drives and wires hanging off the computer taking up space on my desk. Unfortunately, I think the Macs days are numbered so I would be surprised to see a completely new Mac from Apple. I hope that I’m wrong but it happened to the Apple II when the Macintosh came out.

I want to and can afford the new MP but a mid-range version of it would be nice.

Currently I have a 2013 MP hex-core that seems to do what I ask of it.
For me the new MP provides a healthy (12-core) performance upgrade and
is more importantly expandability. Here in Canada we take a major hit on the
exchange rate of about 33% on top of the numbers the U.S guys are seeing - Yikes!!
 
Not overpriced, it’s not a personal computer. Go price out a Dell workstation and it comes very close to the same price minus a little Apple tax. And MacOS is far better than Linux.

Just ordered a Dell 7920 rackmount. Dual Xeon 4214 chips on one board ( 12C per chip ) 96GB ECC, Dual Radeon Pro wx5100's. 1 - 2T NVME and 3 4T HDD with 4 3.5" bays free, 5 near NBD onsite warranty with accidental. $ 6105 USD minus a 18% off. so $5174 total

should have it for one of the Solidworks guys by Friday
 
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Just ordered a Dell 7920 rackmount. Dual Xeon 4212 chips on one board ( 12C per chip ) 96GB ECC, Dual Radeon Pro wx5100's. 1 - 2T NVME and 3 4T HDD with 4 3.5" bays free, 5 near NBD onsite warranty with accidental. $ 6105 USD minus a 18% off. so $5174 total

should have it for one of the Solidworks guys by Friday
A 64-core 3990X costs $3990. But I guess not by Friday.
 
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For these brand new machines, yep. I agree.
But at least as something of historical interest, there have been Mac specific Linux distributions released before.

Yup, in the days before Mac OS X.

Yellow Dog Linux used to be one of the favorite ones to use on the old PowerPC Macs.

Back around the time of the Clone Wars. :-D
 
Apple’s a huge company: 500+ retail stores, 130,000+ employees and over $2 billion per month in operating expenses, including $1.5 billion per month in R&D expense.

...and huge economies of scale given the resulting ability to buy in quantity and negotiate tough quid-pro-quo deals with suppliers, not to mention the money saved by selling a large portion of your output directly to customers rather than letting Best Buy, Walmart, Amazon et. al. take a slice.

However, the kind of logic you're suggesting is part of the problem: whatever it might have been in the past, in 2020, the Apple retail store network is there for iPhones, Watches and Apple gift cards (with a side-order of general flag-waving for the brand). There's no way that a personal computer range can come close to justifying that sort of infrastructure (that's why you don't see many Dell, HP and Lenovo stores in prime retail locations).

Likewise, R&D - I'm sure that the R&D bill for the Mac Pro looks impressive quoted in isolation - but I'm also sure that it is a tiny fraction of the R&D budget for the next iPhone (Existing tech like T2 and thunderbolt + reference Intel designs + lots of stock ICs versus ultra miniaturisation of every component, new camera technology, new display technology, new battery technology, fully custom system-on-a-chip...)

If Apple are expecting every Mac - especially the higher-end ones - to pull its weight in Apple Stores and subsidise iPhone R&D, then the Mac is pretty much doomed... but that's "unicorn start-up" thinking: a large corporation making everything from watches to TV shows doesn't need all of its divisions to cleve to the same business model - frankly, they're ahead of the game if they're all in the black. ...or do you think Samsung has the same mark-up on their fridges and dishwashers as they do on the Galaxy Fold? Because that's what personal computers are in 2020 - mature, commodity tech, who's boom time has passed, but which people still need and pay good money for.

The Mac business is still solid and profitable: gimping it because all you can see is that the revenue is 1/10 that of the iPhone will kill it... and the thing about the Mac is that it is an ecosystem that relies on sufficient users and diversity of uses to keep software and hardware developers employed. Affordable machines for power users/developers (no "xMac"), for basic office productivity users (no sub-$1000 MBA replacement) etc. are an essential part of the ecosystem, even if they're not the most popular. You can't build an ecosystem with just meerkats and elephants.

If Apple offered a cut-down version of the Mac Pro, say four PCIe slots and six DIMM sockets, and Core-X instead of Xeon, it would save Apple maybe $500. You’d still be looking at a $5,000+ machine. Still interested?

First, that's a nonsense price - you don't make an "xMac" by taking the Mac Pro and pulling bits out. The whole problem with the $6k entry level MP is that its already a $50k machine with the good bits missing: you're paying a huge premium to get a machine with a huge PSU, a motherboard with slots for 1.5TB of RAM and enough PCIe bandwidth to run quad GPUs and an afterburner or two - if you don't want to add $24k+ of upgrades then you're paying $6000 for $2000 worth of performance.

...so, yeah, offer me even a $6000 Mac that is even slightly competitive with the sort of usable spec you can get for $5k+ in the PC world - as soon as you ditch the requirement for 8 PCIe slots and 1.5TB of RAM slots - then I'll at least think about it.

...but, honestly, $3k+ would be a more sensible price for a straightforward Core-X PCIe tower, a target Apple have always managed to meet in the past even with Xeon CPUs (PCIe towers built from standard parts should be cheap to develop and make - the $3k Mac Pro trashcan, completely made from custom parts, would have been far more expensive). Even that would carry a substantial premium over the sort of PC you can get for $2k+ and it wouldn't necessarily deter those legendary "true pros" who need the power of the $50k Mac Pro.
 
Your friendly local Mom & Pop OEM PC maker offers more than three models of headless PC. Apple is the 4th largest supplier of PCs in the world, and they can't offer a regular desktop?

They can do it because they design nothing, they just buy parts from others. They do not develop an operating system (macOS) or productivity apps (Keynote, Numbers, Pages), design custom chips (T2), or custom cases. They do not have support organizations at scale, a network of stores, etc. meaning their overhead is just lower. Apple is never going to release a machine made with someone else’s motherboard or case. Designing a new machine for a tiny market would be cost prohibitive.
 
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