Rant: 30-year Mac fanatic finally buys Windows

[Mildredop]

Microsoft will not be releasing another major OS

Could you explain what you mean by this? I can't imagine you're suggesting that the current Windows OS will still be in use in twenty years?

I'm kind of waiting for MS to release a better OS to then consider making the jump.

 

[MysticCow]

When the PPC first came out, yes that was the case, but Intel did catch up and over take them on performance. Intel dedicated all its resources to improving the x86 chip (which makes sense since its their major product for profits), but for Moto and IBM it was not their main focus and so improvements were more incremental and it took longer to roll them out.

I expect better than a selective quote from a STAFF MEMBER and MODERATOR. Here's the full text of the paragraph you snipped:

Apple won the spec battle because PPC was better than whatever Intel was offering. That was the main reason why Intel jacked up the clock speeds all the time--they had to catch up to PPC performance and that was the only way they could do it at the time. Now, Intel is at the forefront and doing a lot of things PPC already did and with success.

Apple always won the spec battle, but never won the price battle. And the price battle is what's most important in a price-driven economy.

Note the entire quote. We're not in disagreement, now are we? However, because of selective quoting...well, you know.

Now if you'll excuse me, I have a dentist appointment I need to get ready for.

 

[maflynn]

I expect better than a selective quote from a STAFF MEMBER and MODERATOR. Here's the full text of the paragraph you snipped:

I was only commenting on the first portion of your post, but if you want, we can discuss this portion as well

Apple always won the spec battle,

I'm afraid that's not always the case, as I clearly pointed out in the PPC world. Apple also has a long track record of using slower GPUs, and again there are other machines with superior specs. We can also go on to say the current MBP's limitation of 16GB means its not winning the spec battle

 

[MysticCow]

I was only commenting on the first portion of your post, but if you want, we can discuss this portion as well


I'm afraid that's not always the case, as I clearly pointed out in the PPC world. Apple also has a long track record of using slower GPUs, and again there are other machines with superior specs. We can also go on to say the current MBP's limitation of 16GB means its not winning the spec battle

No it wasn't always the best and I chose a poor word in the statement. But if we're going to judge Apple by any machine with better specs, we're intentionally doing a disservice. There are ones with worse. There are ones with the same. There are better ones.

The Apple of today certainly isn't winning the spec battles like the Apple of yesterday. But I'm also on record saying that the Apple of today is nothing more than the Pretty Shiny Objects Show.

So again, are we really in disagreement here? Because I certainly can't find it.

 

[maflynn]

No it wasn't always the best and I chose a poor word in the statement.

So, you see, the point I was making was that PPC wasn't always fastest chipset (it was initially), but for some reason, you got upset that as a moderator I chose to only quote the portion of your post that I was addressing. I usually do this when replying to a specific point.

 

[jasnw]

Also consider the rise and fall of AppleScript. This announcement was probably is the one thing that, more than any other, convinced me that Apple didn't understand computers anymore.

https://www.macrumors.com/2016/11/16/mac-automation-sal-soghoian-position-eliminated/

I was on the road and missed this story. Makes one wonder what the heck all those people in the Apple Flying Saucer are going to be doing. I hope they're not all working on emojis. Looking more and more like I'm headed back to Windows for GUI needs and Linux for the heavy lifting on the CL.

 

[26139]

A rant from a thirty-year Mac user who just bought his first Windows box.

Apple, how could you do this to us?

I've been a Mac user since 1986, when I bought (used) a "fat mac" with all of 512K of RAM, and a case that still had everyone's signature inside. I had to swap out the motherboard to get to the 1M RAM necessary to run HyperCard. I stuck with the Mac through the days of Spindler and Amelio, and jumped at the chance to buy the first iMac, which was a real value.

But this month I bought my first Windows computer ever. Why? Because Apple has so thoroughly lost the plot on the desktop that it's pushing away even loyal three-decade Mac users like myself.

The Apple ecosystem is a tripod -- Mac, iPhone, iPad -- and Apple is apparently doing everything it can to chop one of the tripod's legs off. Things will land with a thud.

I had (and still have) a mid-2010 Core 2 Duo Mac Mini. I started buying Minis after two iMacs (the original G3 and a G5) because I could no longer see the wisdom in replacing the screen every time I replaced a computer. It seems like planned wastefulness to me; the computer ages out much faster than the screen does.

Spring of 2013 I started itching for a quad core. But the Mini was still on a roughly annual release cycle -- remember when Apple actually used to release new Macs for the desktop? -- so I thought I'd wait for the next model to drop. I do occasional light gaming, and the idea of better integrated graphics was part of my decision.

So wait wait wait wait. 2013 comes and goes. Most of 2014 comes and goes. Finally, in September of 2014, I decided that there was no point in waiting any longer, and I pulled the switch to buy the quad-core Mini I'm typing this on. Unintentionally a very good move, because a month later Apple announced the Great Mac Mini Stupidization of 2014, a really stunning setback, in which ludicrously underpowered machines were offered up with everything soldered down to, I suppose, keep your desktop memory from being dislodged during an earthquake.

Now, the Mac Mini is just a corner of the Mac market, but still, bulk orders for pitchforks and YouTube videos on how to light torches. It was very very dumb, Apple, and -- more importantly -- for the first time ever, it meant buying a new Apple machine meant going backwards in capabilities. That goes against the natural law of computers.

So now the Mac pipeline is suffering from intestinal blockage. This entire year, all they released was an Air-called-a-MacBook (oh it's so THIN) and the now-infamous MacBook Extortionate, with its dongle fetish and a whammy bar you can use to play PacMan. The one that was so poorly received it triggered Apple's panicked price-slashing on the required dongle farm and high-end monitors.

And that's it. The entire score for 2016. Apple has lost the Mac plot. It's like the days of Spindler and Amelio: watching something wonderful being destroyed by people who apparently simply don't understand why it's so wonderful.

I'm keeping my 2012 quad-core Mac Mini, but it's now sharing the desk with my very first Windows box ever. For US$800 (holiday sales price, normally US$950), here's what I got:

- i5 at 3.2 GHz, quad core, like you can't get in a Mac Mini

- External GPU (GTX 1060 + 6GB RAM), like you can't get in a Mac Mini

- 16GB RAM, not soldered in, like you can't get in a Mac

- Two empty memory sockets for later, like you can't get in a Mac

- 250GB SSD and 1TB spinner, both user-replaceable, like you can't get in a Mac

- Empty bays if I want to add more drives later, like you can't get in a Mac

- CD/DVD, like you can't get in a Mac, and yes, I do use it

- Plus the case, PSU, motherboard, WiFi, etc. All of them user-accessible.

- Lots and lots of USB ports that don't need dongles

Here's what I didn't get:

- an unnecessary and expensive monitor literally glued onto it, like you are forced to get in an iMac

- a whammy bar that lets me play Pacman

- a forest of dongles to make you weep

- Jony Ive telling me it's the thinnest ever, as if thinness is the only virtue

- every damned thing welded into place for all time

I've set it up with Windows 10 and Ubuntu (the later for development). And you know what? Windows 10 ain't Windows 3.1. It ain't Windows XP. The environment is less cohesive than the Mac, but more cohesive than Linux. It turns out that Microsoft is no longer led by a sweaty ape from marketing trying to keep things as locked down, embrace-extend-and-extinguish, and 1995-ish as possible. Their inability to create a smartphone anyone wants to buy -- after round after round of trying -- taught them a hard lesson.

Is OSX better? Yes. But is it four times better? Because that's how much I'd have to pay for a comparable Mac. And the answer is, no, not four times better, not anymore. Windows has its greeblies and wockawockas, but at least they seem to believe the desktop has a future that doesn't involve playing Pacman on a whammy bar. And Microsoft is keenly aware that Apple is abandoning the professional desktop by neglect if not intent.

Yes, cars and trucks -- but Apple's mad if it thinks it's going to keep selling a 2013 truck at 2017 prices, and Apple's mad if it thinks people are going to buy a ferociously underpowered Mini-mini-mini, and Apple's mad if it thinks the iMac by itself is a complete desktop line.

And the result is that, for the first time ever, this Mac fanatic has a Windows box. Redmond has finally breached the perimeter, because Apple is asleep, and -- at least today -- no longer makes a computer I'd consider buying for my own desk. Will I end up moving to Windows more and more? Dunno. But the camel's nose is inside the tent.

Because Apple has utterly lost the Mac plot.

Apple -- doesn't anyone there love computers anymore?

I'm wondering why in the hell you didn't switch earlier, as it's clear your needs are much better suited by a Windows PC.

If upgradeability, an external monitor (why did you ever buy an iMac?), and price are your main concerns, what attracted you to Apple in the first place?

 

[Deanster]

FWIW, I'm in the same boat as the OP.

I have a shiny new 2016 MBP 15" on my desk, and it's a great machine, but I'm a big believer in desktops as the 'home base', with tons of storage, etc.

I'd been using a 2011 27" iMac for that purpose, but the logic board died a couple months back, and it's not economical at this point to replace it.

My MBP is great, but I'd really like to have a beefy desktop for video rendering/transcoding, and a true mass-storage option, etc.

There's nothing in Apple's current desktop 'lineup' that I'm willing to buy, and I don't expect there will be next year either. I've owned and very much enjoyed the several iMacs I own, but having to keep or get rid of the monitor with the computer is really problematic when something breaks. The 27" IPS panel in my 27" iMac is fantastic, and would/should be a great screen for many years to come, but it's useless junk without a working computer behind it.

I'm simply done playing that game - I need my desktop to be a modular, powerful, reliable, upgradable and affordable machine. Apple inarguably has no interest in selling me such a machine. My 2011 iMac wasn't perfect, but at least I could open it up and upgrade it a little.

I'm a reluctant Windows user, though I've always kept a Windows gaming machine or two around, and I tried a Surface Pro 4 last year when I was waiting for new MBP's.

MacOS is IMHO *much* better, but at some point I need to realize that as the poster above suggests, Apple simply doesn't meet my needs.

But I'm on PartPicker right now, spec-ing my new desktop... My budget is 30% of the iMac configuration closest to what might work - 27" 5K i7 4.0 i7 quad core, 1TB SSD, 16GB RAM, R9 M395 GPU, pricing out at $3,349. I don't need the 4.0 CPU, but that's the only i7 option offered. It's flat INSANE that the upgrade from 512 SSD to 1TB is $600, but at least it makes the upgrade from 8GB RAM to 16 look 'reasonably priced'.

$1100 budget will buy a LOT of desktop PC, yo.

 

[Mark Holmes]

Yep. Could not agree more with the OP. Especially in regards to the Apple ecosystem tripod. I can't help but picture Tim Cook and Jony Ive madly kicking at the third leg of a stool - "Why won't this damn thing break?!?! We can shave 13 ounces of the weight off this stool once it has two legs!!!"
I finally broke down and got a Windows workstation to replace my 2009 Mac Pro after waiting years for a useful update. Was really disappointed with the nMP trashcan design, but even gave it a few more years hoping someone would come to their senses over there at Apple HQ.
And please, stop defending them saying they need a dedicated Mac team to develop these updates. They have $250 billion dollars in cash, and at this point there is a thriving Hackintosh community that makes Mac OS work on all kinds of configurations. Building a computer is not rocket science at that level. For Gods sake just haul the classic Mac Pro back out and update the internals. A slight redesign of the Mac Mini that has current hardware and allows updates to the hard drive and memory... People are not asking them to build a rocket to Mars. They're just asking for updates to desktops that make sense for users.
Microsoft, meanwhile, keeps getting better by the day. Surface Studio, anyone? Have you seen the Surface Pro 4? And updates to all these offerings coming in the spring.
Wake up Apple. You need more than phones and tablets to make an ecosystem.

 

[sunapple]

Apple makes computers (and iOS devices) that are hard to recycle, but I believe they have means of disposing of them the right way. Maybe 3rd parties have trouble with them. I always sell my old stuff to others, also a good way of disposing of old hardware. In my experience, despite of the thinner glued devices, they still last quite long (multiple owners).

I don't think buying Mac Minis while using the same old monitor versus getting the new iMac every 5 years makes a huge difference in waste. And that screen needs upgrading too IMO.

I agree the new MacBook Pros are too expensive, I hate that. It's a weird marketing decision, possibly part of making the PC a luxury item and getting more people to buy iPads. I do think this is the future, if they came up with better software. Overall delays are the fault of Intel, don't think anyone at Apple wanted to miss the holidays for iMac.

I use laptops, not desktops. I'm still with Apple on their sense of direction in this category, except price maybe. iPhone is also still my favorite phone. Not going to switch sides. To each their own, but I wished Apple could please ALL of their loyal users.

 

[maflynn]

Could you explain what you mean by this? I can't imagine you're suggesting that the current Windows OS will still be in use in twenty years?

I'm kind of waiting for MS to release a better OS to then consider making the jump.

Probably along the same lines that Windows 10 is the last version of windows but MS will continually update it. Its along the same lines of macOS being at version 10 since 2000. While the Apple has continually improved and updated it, we've been on version 10 for some time

 

[jpietrzak8]

I don't think buying Mac Minis while using the same old monitor versus getting the new iMac every 5 years makes a huge difference in waste. And that screen needs upgrading too IMO.

The monitor I'm using right now as I type this is a beautiful Viewsonic VP201b. It's a bit over a decade old now, which means it is not only twice as old as the Mini it is connected to, but that I've actually had it since before I purchased my first Mac. This monitor offers HDMI and VGA inputs, a USB hub, and a sturdy base that allows me to easily switch from landscape to portrait orientation. Over time, I've used it with many computers, Mac and Windows and Linux.

I see no reason why I must be forced to throw away old tools just because someone has built a new tool. I'm not going to use this monitor for modern gaming purposes, but it is perfect for browsing the web and editing text. I hope to continue using it until its fluorescent bulbs finally burn out.

Overall delays are the fault of Intel, don't think anyone at Apple wanted to miss the holidays for iMac.

Nonsense. Intel continues to put out updates of one sort or another every year; even if they don't have a significant improvement in CPU power, they continue to update their integrated GPUs or add other new features (better support for HDMI or Thunderbolt, etc.). And manufacturers other than Apple consistently pick up these updates and incorporate them into their own offerings.

Apple's delays are for Apple's own reasons. Don't blame Intel.

 

[now i see it]

Waiting 5 years to replace a computer with a new one is fairly normal. It hasn't been 5 years since 2012.

The only thing we've learned, and Apple has taught us, is to purchase the next computer with specs you will be happy with for the next 5 years. That pretty much means buying the top spec model maxed out to the gills.

 

[sunapple]

The monitor I'm using right now as I type this is a beautiful Viewsonic VP201b. It's a bit over a decade old now, which means it is not only twice as old as the Mini it is connected to, but that I've actually had it since before I purchased my first Mac. This monitor offers HDMI and VGA inputs, a USB hub, and a sturdy base that allows me to easily switch from landscape to portrait orientation. Over time, I've used it with many computers, Mac and Windows and Linux.

I see no reason why I must be forced to throw away old tools just because someone has built a new tool. I'm not going to use this monitor for modern gaming purposes, but it is perfect for browsing the web and editing text. I hope to continue using it until its fluorescent bulbs finally burn out.



Nonsense. Intel continues to put out updates of one sort or another every year; even if they don't have a significant improvement in CPU power, they continue to update their integrated GPUs or add other new features (better support for HDMI or Thunderbolt, etc.). And manufacturers other than Apple consistently pick up these updates and incorporate them into their own offerings.

Apple's delays are for Apple's own reasons. Don't blame Intel.

That monitor seems a bit outdated to me, a little on the small side too. They have those sweet 16:9 27" screens nowadays you know. Highly depends on the use case of course, I think buying two iMacs in that same timeframe wouldn't have made such a big difference though. iMacs can be reused, iMac screens can become spare parts. It's not just about having the latest and greatest, for video and photo having new tech can be crucial.

I believe Skylake parts for iMac and MacBook were delayed this year, what you're saying was true for previous years though. Apple's moved their focus to other products for now I guess, doubt they don't regret the state of the Mac right now. We'll see next year!

 

[jpietrzak8]

That monitor seems a bit outdated to me, a little on the small side too.

Well, sure! I have other (bigger, newer) monitors attached to other machines. But that doesn't mean this monitor is no longer useful.

This is the conundrum with Apple; for their business model to survive, their customers must continually be purchasing new hardware. Even if the old hardware still works. Even if the old hardware could be used together with the new hardware. To maximize their profits, once one part of your existing Mac becomes unusable (for whatever reason), you now must throw away all parts of your Mac and purchase an entirely new set of hardware. It's becoming kinda ridiculous.

But you can see why Tim wants an iPod-style computer to become the norm. Just like the iPhone, you're supposed to get tired of it, dispose of it, and buy a new one every few years now. The "disposable computer" is exactly what Apple is aiming for.

 

[Mark Holmes]

Well, sure! I have other (bigger, newer) monitors attached to other machines. But that doesn't mean this monitor is no longer useful.

This is the conundrum with Apple; for their business model to survive, their customers must continually be purchasing new hardware. Even if the old hardware still works. Even if the old hardware could be used together with the new hardware. To maximize their profits, once one part of your existing Mac becomes unusable (for whatever reason), you now must throw away all parts of your Mac and purchase an entirely new set of hardware. It's becoming kinda ridiculous.

But you can see why Tim wants an iPod-style computer to become the norm. Just like the iPhone, you're supposed to get tired of it, dispose of it, and buy a new one every few years now. The "disposable computer" is exactly what Apple is aiming for.

Your last lines, unfortunately, might get right to the crux of the problem.

Well, sure! I have other (bigger, newer) monitors attached to other machines. But that doesn't mean this monitor is no longer useful.

This is the conundrum with Apple; for their business model to survive, their customers must continually be purchasing new hardware. Even if the old hardware still works. Even if the old hardware could be used together with the new hardware. To maximize their profits, once one part of your existing Mac becomes unusable (for whatever reason), you now must throw away all parts of your Mac and purchase an entirely new set of hardware. It's becoming kinda ridiculous.

But you can see why Tim wants an iPod-style computer to become the norm. Just like the iPhone, you're supposed to get tired of it, dispose of it, and buy a new one every few years now. The "disposable computer" is exactly what Apple is aiming for.

Exactly. It's a cash grab, or it certainly seems so. In the eyes of the public, there is little difference.

 

[Partron22]

Mac user since 84, when I traded in my Apple III on a Macintosh 128K.
Never had a windows box until this month. Lenovo M900.
There was really no choice.
Apple's locking the hardware down to hard and dummifying all the Apps.
I may regret this purchase when the new 8 core i7 mini comes out next spring and sports a mini-slot for a gpu.

 

[ActionableMango]

Unfortunately Cook has cried wolf too often about his magical pipeline and as a consequence customers have far less goodwill towards the company. Nothing will change until Cook & co are booted out of Apple, the sooner the better IMO!

Who do you suggest to replace him?

 

[campyguy]

Chiming in again, a bit confused about the perspective about why "Apple isn't doing something now" bit and "it's Apple's fault" bit. Having already offered a perspective of my own already, I don't agree with any perspective that Apple's part of the problem, ecosystem-wise at this point in time, following:

• As long as I've been buying Apple products, I've never seen new product announced and delivered around the holiday period, much to my chagrin as a business owner. Steve, and, subsequently Apple, announce and deliver after the first of a new year - which my accountant and I are not particularly fond of.
• Much has been made of Apple's dumbed-down products (my words), but NONE/NADA/ZIP/ZERO of my non-crapware vendors - Dell, HP, MS - are providing performance product timelines until February/March/April of 2017. Picking on Partron22's selection as an example - that's 3-year-old hardware using 2015 i5/i7 6th-gen processors, and a $49 video card that's useless for production work; I run an SMB, and there's absolutely no way I'd spend my money on that old hardware today, just as there's no way I'd buy a Mac today since I know that new hardware is showing up in the next several weeks. I have a descriptive name for the Lenovo M900 - "door stop" or "boat anchor" but, to be fair, I wouldn't waste my budget on any new Macs or PCs right now either (and after talking with some of my peers, neither would they...). I'm not picking on you, to be fair.
• None of the computer vendors I work with are telling me "buy" and they are telling me "wait" because of Intel's new hardware that will be in new PCs in about 2-4 months - and I'm not writing anything new or different here.

But, @Patron22, what the heck does "dummifying all the apps" mean? I use Merlin - at US$300 it's US$600 less when compared to MS's Project Pro for an excellent scheduling app. I also use OmniGraffle Pro - way more cost-effective and every bit as powerful as Visio. For both Project and Visio I'd also have to deal with CALs (Client Access Licenses) - each Mac that's covered by my Merlin/OmniGroup license I don't have to spend roughly US$1k less just for those two applications. I prefer both Merlin and OmniGraffle to the MS offerings as IMHO they're not "dummified" (whatever the heck that means...?). FWIW, the only app that seems IMHO to be not dummified is Outlook and the SharePoint interface - both of which are powerful tools offered by MS.

The interwebs are offering that new hardware is coming soon. We all have read it - here, there, and everywhere - in a few months there will be new chipsets, new TB3 docks/hubs, new displays. But they won't have neural interfaces, 8k display panels, Thunderbolt 4, or Bluetooth 5 - that'll be next year's toys. I started out with punch cards on an HP mainframe in 1988 - get a grip, chill out, and enjoy the rest of the holiday season. If you want a zippier Mac Mini Server, do what I did with mine - stuff it in a Sonnet xMac and put two 2TB Samsung 850 Pro SSDs in it - they'll be much zippier and you'll be much poorer...

 

[lcseds]

I am assembling a new Winbox with some stout specs. It's fun picking out whatever I want to put in the PC. But that is the fundamental difference between Windows and MacOS, the ability to customize hardware which introduces more software issues. MacOS is stable because you don't get to choose what is in your Mac. Apple will decide that. That makes it easy to mate the OS to the hardware. If the Mac hardware is prefect for your needs then Mac is probably the way to go. But Apple's decisions will dictate where you can go with it. I know anyone interested in VR or VR development isn't going to have a chance with Apple. One has to decide on their own, and not expect a forum to dictate what works.

I have no problems with either OS. And when I hear drivel about all these Windows issues, it's apparent those complaining are regurgitating what they read elsewhere, not what they experience if they run it at all. I have tried all sorts of devices and for me, a Windows desktop rules for pure power, but I can't leave my 2013 rMBP 15" and my iPad/iPhone. I guess I'll walk the line a little while longer before I move to one side, if I ever do.

 

[tubular]

I'm wondering why in the hell you didn't switch earlier, as it's clear your needs are much better suited by a Windows PC.

Because, no, my needs are not much better suited by a Windows PC. I still love the Mac, and the OS. But Apple has been sawing off branch after branch of their own tree, and the difference between the Mac and the PC is no longer justifying the price differential. This is a new thing. This took motion from both sides -- a pretty solid leap away from Ballmer's "never move anyone's cheese, ever" from Microsoft, but also a "let's take away the good parts of the Mac hardware and replace them with dongles and colorful whammy bars for pretending you're Mike Love playing theremin on 'Good Vibrations.'"

If upgradeability, an external monitor (why did you ever buy an iMac?), and price are your main concerns, what attracted you to Apple in the first place?

The grand chasm of usability between the Mac and the Windows of the past. A chasm that ain't so grand anymore, and is getting smaller all the time -- while the Mac prices go all Mac Pro.
[doublepost=1482881855][/doublepost]

I'd been using a 2011 27" iMac for that purpose, but the logic board died a couple months back, and it's not economical at this point to replace it.

That's the driving part of this story -- I've got four working Macs now, each of which was worth the money, and I'm happy with all of them. But when they eventually age out, what do I buy then? If Apple doesn't make any machines I want to buy, as their current course suggests, they've have made the decision for me.
[doublepost=1482882307][/doublepost]

The only thing we've learned, and Apple has taught us, is to purchase the next computer with specs you will be happy with for the next 5 years. That pretty much means buying the top spec model maxed out to the gills.

But it didn't use to -- not until Apple started soldering the memory and hard drive in place.
What Apple is doing is like a car maker soldering tires onto the axles, so that when they wear out, the only thing to do is buy a new car. That may or may not make sense in iGizmos. For the desktop, it's ridiculously stupid of them.
[doublepost=1482882473][/doublepost]

I may regret this purchase when the new 8 core i7 mini comes out next spring and sports a mini-slot for a gpu.

And socketed memory in -- memory sockets!
[doublepost=1482882648][/doublepost]

I prefer both Merlin and OmniGraffle to the MS offerings as IMHO they're not "dummified" (whatever the heck that means...?). FWIW, the only app that seems IMHO to be not dummified is Outlook and the SharePoint interface - both of which are powerful tools offered by MS.

OmniGraffle/OmniFocus fan here too.

 

[JDoolittle]

A rant from a thirty-year Mac user who just bought his first Windows box.

Apple, how could you do this to us?

I've been a Mac user since 1986, when I bought (used) a "fat mac" with all of 512K of RAM, and a case that still had everyone's signature inside. I had to swap out the motherboard to get to the 1M RAM necessary to run HyperCard. I stuck with the Mac through the days of Spindler and Amelio, and jumped at the chance to buy the first iMac, which was a real value.

But this month I bought my first Windows computer ever. Why? Because Apple has so thoroughly lost the plot on the desktop that it's pushing away even loyal three-decade Mac users like myself.

Oh wow. You are practically me (just older, heh). I've been using Apple products since the late 1980s, when I learned computers on an old Apple II+ my parents found and the IIe, IIgs, and various other early low end Macintosh models at school. Later, it was a Mac LC. Then a 6100, a G3, a G4, then two different iMacs, and a couple of minis over the years for my wife.

A month ago, I plopped down a bunch of change for a bunch of computer components that I assembled myself and a copy of Windows 10. I now have a machine that is super upgradable for years to come, with room for expansion and additions, and way, way, way more horsepower than I could have purchased for double the price in a Macintosh chassis. It makes me sad; I defended Macintosh for many years, still really like OSX, still own and use multiple iDevices...but the specs and the price on the iMac made me more depressed than buying a copy of Windows. I knew from using Windows for 15 years at work that I could function in that environment. So, here I am. Sorry, Apple.

 

[jpietrzak8]

MacOS is stable because you don't get to choose what is in your Mac. Apple will decide that.

Hmm. In my experience, I would agree that Windows has been, in general, a less stable OS than OS X is. However, I would rank OS X as, just slightly, a less stable OS than Linux. I have, very infrequently, had situations where I have needed to reboot a Mac; I can't remember ever having needed to reboot a Linux machine. And you can run Linux on practically anything.

There is no reason OS X couldn't be used across a wide range of hardware. It's just that Apple's business model is not suited to allowing OS X on non-Apple computers.

 

[Cole Slaw]

I wish Apple would spin off MacOS and the computer division to people would have an interest in those areas.
Tim Cook and his clown posse (Ive, Schiller, Ahrendts) could remain with the iPhone & Fashion accessories division.

 

[MichaelDT]

It seems we're returning to the 90's. We just lived through the Mac's second coming. Much like when the Mac first came out, it was the very best graphical computer you could buy. But by the late 90s the competition kept innovating, while MacOS choked Windows was soaring. Apple saw the crisis and acquired NeXt.

That got us Mac OS X, which changed the whole value proposition with multitasking and Unix internals. Now the Mac became the default computer for programmers and scientists joining the artistic crowd that was already present. After the switch to x86, it was the ultimate machine. Modular, capable of running anything on any platform and it just worked. Slick designs that changed every few years to push the boundries. If you wanted to tinker and be a command line junky you could, if you wanted to open it and have it just work, it would.

But here we are back in 1995 again, the competition has caught up, they're in many cases making more reliable machines. Windows 10 even has an open source Linux subsystem. At the same time Apple has implemented SIP on macOS trying to hide their own BSD subsystem. The designs have become stale, the only trick left seems to be thinness. Every other PC maker now clads their laptops in aluminum and glass. The prices on Macs are soaring. Soon I fear we will return to the days when you had to make sure every peripheral you touched was "MacOS compatible" and had a premium for its special connector. Now I can't even say that it will last longer. With completely soldered internals, I can upgrade nothing. New OS needs more memory or HD space, please buy a new computer. This is okay on a 500 dollar iPad, but a multi thousand dollar computer? No.

The Mac is quickly loosing status with the elite and intelligentsia, this will lead to a loss in prestige. Most people don't need emojis on their keyboard. They spend thousands for a workhorse for getting work done in the least intrusive way possible, not an iMessage or FaceTime machine. That's why we bought an iPhone, now let us have our Macs. Apple should have learned from the G4 Cube in the case of the nMP. People prefer internal peripherals, not just for speed but for organization especially professionals with enough **** on their desks as is. The same reason the iMac is popular.

Perhaps Forestall or somebody with sense will carry out a Steve Jobs style coup and bring sanity back.