I already mentioned it in this thread, but my teenager doesn't care either way since everyone she associates with uses Snapchat.
I'm a little surprised that Snapchat is still a thing...but it is.
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RCS Messaging in iOS 18: What iPhone Users Need to Know
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I already mentioned it in this thread, but my teenager doesn't care either way since everyone she associates with uses Snapchat.
I'm a little surprised that Snapchat is still a thing...but it is.
And that's great news. I'd love to see encryption built into the RCS standard instead of relying on the carriers or the app developers.
But my point stands that if Apple had engaged with GSMA 5 years ago (when Google finally got tired of GSMA and the carriers dithering an just went around them to develop their own encryption) then we'd probably have encryption built into the protocol today.
Apple had no interest in RCS until China mandated that all phones sold in the country have it, so they weren't even considering it five years ago, or even a year or two ago.
Yea, it sucks.
Wait... you're saying that Apple didn't want to do something proprietary? Seriously? Apple's famous for that. It's the foundation of their walled garden.
And I welcome their participation in making the standard better. But the point is that they have ignored the standard (and standards in general) for many years. The only reason Google implemented encryption in their RCS app is because they got tired of GSMA and the carriers dragging their feet and bickering, so they went around them. If Apple hadn't ignored RCS and had instead actually engaged with GSMA 5 years ago, we'd probably already have E2EE built into the protocol. There's no way GSMA or the carriers could have ignored encryption if both Google and Apple had been involved.
As it stands, I sincerely hope that Apple's weight forces the issue of E2EE in the RCS protocol. But I also sincerely doubt that they're all that serious about it, for two reasons. First, if they were serious, they would have engaged years ago to make it happen. Second, encryption only serves to make iMessage less attractive.
But I am willing to be proved wrong. If Apple actually makes encryption part of the RCS standard, I'd be thrilled.
Yeah, and that's unfortunately typical of Apple.
Yes and I agree 100%. But Apple is also losing lots of battles in the last year with go standard or give us tons of money. So yeah Apple would be dumb to do proprietary encryption right now. You can already see the headlines.
Apple instead is going to try to update the standard and yes it’s so they can be like hey look we are a team player why isn’t Google switching to the new encryption standard etc.
This is the best option for Apple in the current world situation.
1. Technically, you'd have to look at the RCS protocol. The most important thing IMHO is that WhatsApp has E2EE, while RCS "allows for" E2EE but doesn't require it. Maybe that will change now that Apple is involved, but then again maybe it won't because it's not in Apple's best financial interest to build E2EE into the RCS protocol.
2. I don't know about the base version of RCS that Apple is implementing, but on Google's RCS app you can send voice recordings just like in WhatsApp (I use both).
Encryption is built in to the Universal Profile, but the messages are only encrypted in transit and no E2EE. Google's proprietary extensions of RCS are E2EE, but as we know Apple is not adopting Google's extension to RCS.
Hopefully we will see the Universal Profile enhanced with E2EE before too long.
The killer features of RCS are more reliable delivery, and support for larger file sizes for better quality photos and video. Encryption would be the icing on the cake.
Amen to that! And that standard means going around both iMessage and WhatsApp. It means building encryption directly into the RCS standard.
The reason Google ended up doing its own encryption is because they got tired of GSMA and the carriers dithering. If Apple got involved and both Google and Apple genuinely cared about encryption, we'd already have it in the RCS standard. But that remains to be seen.
There is no way that Apple and Google, with their immense resources, couldn't build encryption (or any other features) into the base RCS protocol if they wanted to. I just doubt that they will, and in this I trust Apple less than Google because Apple has a history of doing everything behind their so-called "walled garden" instead of building on universal standards.
I agree that RCS features are a definite step up from SMS/MMS. But i would really like to seen encryption, and encryption that doesn't rely on carriers or phone/app manufacturers.
And I sincerely hope that Apple's participation (albeit late) leads to a better/stronger RCS standard.
I just won't believe it until I see it.
Didn’t mean to even post that it was a separate train of thought but we are mostly on the same page. Google tried and failed and went proprietary. Now with all the world regulation updating the standard is the best option to prevent backlash which I think is why Apple is making an effort. Be interesting to see what happens.
Currently Google Messages is using an extension (extensions are allowed in the RCS universal profile) to provide proprietary (based on the Signal protocol) E2EE when both users are using Google Messages. Google is now in the process of moving away from that proprietary E2EE and using OpenMLS. MLS is an open standard developed by the Internet Engineering Task Force (IETF). I'd say that the fact that MLS is designed for cross platform open source encryption from the get-go there is a very good chance that this is something that the GSMA could add to the universal profile. I would assume Google and Apple would be happy to work with the GSMA to make it happen.
The only roadblock I see in the way of E2EE being added to the universal profile is government or politicians getting in the way. Whether or not they have any influence on the GSMA remains to be seen. Even if MLS is added to the universal profile there are likely some countries that will try to block it from being implemented in their regions.
And I sincerely hope that now, with Apple implementing RCS, we'll get a better standard.
But the reason Google went their own way is because GSMA and the carriers were too busy bickering, and without Apple's participation the only way they were going to do E2EE was to do it themselves. I may not agree with that concept, but the fact that they did it is the only reason there's a discussion about it now.
Ideally, both Google and Apple would have engaged years ago with GSMA to build encryption into the standard. And, again, on this issue I trust Google more than Apple because Apple is famous for ignoring standards in favor of its own proprietary walled-garden approach.
But I'm willing to be proved wrong.
Kids also bully each other for not having Stanley cups, which is a tumbler you can buy at your local feed store. Classic 2024.
If it will be possible to "native" communicate in groups, between Android and iOS users. All these Messengers are going to die soon and that's good!
No, the ONLY thing Google doesn't follow is the (lack-of) E2E encryption. They follow the standard to a tee otherwise.
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Forget the technical skills - do they have the inclination?
This is disingenuous. RCS uses SSL encryption when in transit, only being unencrypted on your device, briefly at the RCS hub (before it's deleted) and at the recipient's device.
Google's RCS implementation is already compatible with Apple's implementation because they both use the universal profile. If they were using something other than the GSMA's universal profile it wouldn't be RCS and it wouldn't work between the two.
Google adding a proprietary extension to enable E2EE between 2 phones using Google Messages is allowed in the universal profile and it's app based not network based. I'm thinking MLS will be the best way for everyone to go forward with E2EE if the GSMA adds it to the universal profile, but who knows when or if that will happen.
Google's implementation is already compatible with the standard RCS protocol. Any of the additional features that they added which are not part of the RCS standard will only work if all users are on Google's messaging app. They run on top of, in addition to, the base standard.
At least, that is my understanding.