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That doesn't make sense

I said it the other day.The only solution is "OpenDRM" a cross-platform DRM.Open source.ALL stores including MICROSOFT and Apple MUST embrace this or DRM will fail more than it will.

How can you "force" the use of an "open source" technology? That's like an Oxymoron. :rolleyes:

Fairplay would become the defacto DRM technology if Apple licensed it. As per my previous post, why should Apple do this? Why should Apple become an accomplice in screwing the consumer?
 
Next pressure point

Now that Steve droped the first shoe, it is time to make deals with independant firms for DRM free music, then put them up on iTunes and see what the big 4 do. Steve needs to do this quick or he is going to have to close some stores in the EU.
This way he demostrates his willingness to sell DRM free content and again point the finger at the big 4 for the DRM muusic.

As for the RIAA, someone out to take them to court for mafia like practices. That, I would love to see.
 
Whatever. :rolleyes:

*unminimizes LimeWire.

what a bunch of *********.

i am in the music industry. i'd prefer non drm material. but the above post is pretty much why labels wanted drm in the first place. don't forget the cause of drm for music downloads, limewire and other p2p stealing software. i'm just saying there is a cause and reaction in play, and stealing material via p2p isn't helping foster arguments for removing drm. quite the contrary, it's fueling the reluctance of the industry to open up the material.
 
what a bunch of *********.

i am in the music industry. i'd prefer non drm material. but the above post is pretty much why labels wanted drm in the first place. don't forget the cause of drm for music downloads, limewire and other p2p stealing software. i'm just saying there is a cause and reaction in play, and stealing material via p2p isn't helping foster arguments for removing drm. quite the contrary, it's fueling the reluctance of the industry to open up the material.

If you believe what you just said, you're just as bad as the RIAA. I've downloaded something like 40 songs off of iTunes, and then had to go RE-download them off of p2p because the DRM was preventing me from using them in iMovie* I would much rather have DRMless songs, and I might even end up legally buying if I didn't have to worry about where I'd be able to play MY** music.

*It might not have been iMovie, it was a while ago and I don't remember.
**Yes, I just own a license to the music, just like when I buy a CD I only own a license of play it.. but there's no reason why my CD should have a different license than my iTMS downloaded song.
 
I agreed with Steve's post and my thoughts would be for him, Apple, to encourage music providers to go DRM free. Maybe the iTunes store could sell both fairplay and when available by the record company DRM free. Maybe Apple could some how give an incentive to the labels that go DRM free too. One idea, as already stated here would be a special category featuring DRM free music.
 
The main takeaway I got from Steve's latter is he is agnostic on DRM, leaning toward preferring to not have it, but is "persuaded" to have it by major record labels. Remember, this is the first successful grand experiment on selling music rather than facilitating the massive pirating of it.

As the market "matures" and other companies try other approaches, we wil see if any get any traction, but so far, let's at least be honest, they have not.

Apple makes money on the hardware, not the iTunes music markup. So the 3-15% of the North American music market Apple transacts, which ia unprofitable, gives Aple bragging rights of having the largest LEGAL download service. That has value in the western world. It is mere annoyance in Europe and Asia.

Rocketman
 
I said it the other day.The only solution is "OpenDRM" a cross-platform DRM.Open source.ALL stores including MICROSOFT and Apple MUST embrace this or DRM will fail more than it will.
:: puts on my glasses ::
"Open source" DRM?
I love a good chuckle once in a while!
 
There is one quote in particular from Babylon 5 that Steve's letter reminds me of. It's from Ambassador Kosh:

"The avalanche has already started. It is too late for the pebbles to vote."

I'm not sure if we've reached the threshold of the "avalanche" yet in the music industry (specifically), however I can't imagine it's too far off, both based on my own passively self-collected anecdotal data and that which is presented in Steve's letter.

For my part, even though I own to 1 GB iPods (Shuffle and Nano) not one song that I possess have I obtained from iTMS. Both of my players are, most of the time, somewhere upwards of 60-70% full, and sometimes even more than that. It also goes without saying that none of my music is DRM'd, and my own opinions and "politics" aside from the moment, if past behavior is any indicator of future action, then there's no reason for me to believe this is going to change any time in the future.

Someone else said that DRM only affects, and largely only impacts, law-abiding, decent people. Steve's said that the super-majority of music being distributed today is, by definition, non-DRM'd. And that's the real irony, isn't it?

And as for Steve being DRM/non-DRM "agnostic", I think his comments throughout, and especially towards the end, contradict this. Steve is personally clearly pro-non-DRM; he merely has been going along with it because he's had no practical choice, especially where getting Apple established in the music business was/is concerned. However, one does have to wonder how much more "established" Apple needs to get at this point, and therefore what more reason they have to bend over and drop 'em for the entertainment industry.

I'm not saying there wouldn't be reprocussions; clearly any decision that Apple makes will involve some degree of risk. Another possible approach, provided that Apple's license with the Big 4 doesn't preclude it (and it would have been interesting to see Steve comment in his letter on this) would be to introduce, as others have suggested, other labels and artists who are willing to go DRM-less on their music. However, when it comes to this, I believe there are some issues.

First, though, I need to say the following: I do not regard myself as being a perfect person in any sense of the word, and while not personally egotistical, part of what I'm about to say cannot be said simply without sounding egotistical.

1. Most people (of the ones I know and/or have met over the years) are any combination of the following: too stupid, too lazy, too busy, too uninvolved, too uninterested, too unsavvy, to explore a tool they're given beyond the basics needed to operate that tool, and that's assuming they operate it "at all".

2. The I.Q. of many of the intelligent posters here, myself included, blows (or comes damn near to blowing) the bell curve. In my own experience, most of the people I meet who surround me on this planet are little more than ignorant, self-absorbed, mentally inferrior sheep. To expect them to stand up for themselves in any but the most immediate of senses is, quite frankly, to delude one's self. They won't, and they don't.

3. Putting I.Q. aside, the education system in this country (the U.S.A.) is horrible and does less and less every year to actually teach people anything. Through no fault of their own, the average education of people is on the decline.

4. It's only the voice of the screaming super-minority in this country which gets anything done, when it gets done at all. Anyone here can go on and on and sound oh-so-righteous and pious about liberty and rights and free-will determination to do things. However, most people in this country (and maybe even around the world) seem to go on in blithe ignorance of this and, to all appearances, are little affected by it. I think the record companies basically know that, other than a little bit of bad press that they can usually spin as being from people who are just rabble-rousers, they can do whatever they want and the "dumb, fat and happy" majority out there will just automatically go along with it.

5. There's no way that Apple can replace their content (either voluntarily or involuntarily) with non-mainstream stuff. Mind you, I'd hapilly buy Sam Pacetti or Acoustic Eidolon or Mindy Simmons or Mark Cairn's new Airwolf Themes II or any of a number of other artists' CDs from iTMS if they offered them, and offered them DRM-free. But I'm the exception.

6. What Apple should do (as an adjunct to their overall plan) is to make as big a stride as they can in getting as many willing people as possible savvy about alternative choices in music. And in that respect, I support the prior poster and some of the online talking heads who have suggested Apple promote small label/indie artists in a big way. Of course, there's no way to know whether Apple's contract with the Big 4 allows this or not.
 
:: puts on my glasses ::
"Open source" DRM?
I love a good chuckle once in a while!

That may sound funny but it's the only solution.Maybe not open source as it's normally understood.Perhaps a better term would be one DRM design for the whole industry instead of MS and Apple et.al. having different schemes.
 
what a bunch of *********.

i am in the music industry. i'd prefer non drm material. but the above post is pretty much why labels wanted drm in the first place. don't forget the cause of drm for music downloads, limewire and other p2p stealing software. i'm just saying there is a cause and reaction in play, and stealing material via p2p isn't helping foster arguments for removing drm. quite the contrary, it's fueling the reluctance of the industry to open up the material.

But downloading tracks via p2p doesn't have anything to do with digital purchases or DRM. Either you steal it or you pay for it. That choice is up to the consumer. DRM doesn't do sh*t against piracy since most music is sold DRM-free anyways. How many times have you heard people say: "Oh I'd really like to download that album, but DRM is stopping me." People who buy their music do it to support the artist. I highly doubt iTunes sales would take a hit if the music was DRM-free. If anything, sales would go up because it would actually be convenient to buy there. Who knows, if they started selling lossless DRM-free files, I'd be tempted to buy stuff too. (from iTunes. CD is my current purchase format)
 
That may sound funny but it's the only solution.Maybe not open source as it's normally understood.Perhaps a better term would be one DRM design for the whole industry instead of MS and Apple et.al. having different schemes.

No, it would *need* to be OSS, because that's the only way it would ever have a chance in hell of being free and open.

Otherwise, you're giving one company or one government organization incredible power. And we all know the old saw about "Power corrupts".
 
mm, the big 4 license their music to Apple with the condition of using DRM.
Those who want iTS's music to be DRM-free, they should first go to the big 4 but not Apple...
this is what steve means, i suppose.
 
One reason I can see for Apple not wanting to put up some DRM-free tracks right now is that it will set the precedent for a mix of rights on the iTMS. If they do that then there's no pressure on the labels to cave, as they'd just say "well, you can sell everyone else's stuff DRM free, but keep it on our stuff please". Right now, if a few labels get on board then Apple can use that leverage to tell the stalling labels "make your stuff DRM-free with everyone else or get off the store - we won't mix and match".

This kind of leverage is precisely what's got the recording industry scared. When they insisted on DRM, they expected it to be a magic bullet that gave them all the bargaining chips. They didn't see a store rising to become such a dominant force. To be honest, I don't think Apple saw it happening, either.

Twice now, the record companies have got greedy and expected to be able to just force their requests on the market, both times to be rebuffed by Apple. First, they wanted to increase the price of tracks to whatever they felt like on a track-by-track basis, and then again by trying to claim a percentage of player hardware sales revenues.

Note that the industry managed to wrangle both of these concessions from Microsoft for the Zune store, as well as being able to set extra restrictions to the DRM on a track-by-track basis (disabling Zune sharing). So much for "wanting interoperability".
 
One reason I can see for Apple not wanting to put up some DRM-free tracks right now is that it will set the precedent for a mix of rights on the iTMS. If they do that then there's no pressure on the labels to cave, as they'd just say "well, you can sell everyone else's stuff DRM free, but keep it on our stuff please". Right now, if a few labels get on board then Apple can use that leverage to tell the stalling labels "make your stuff DRM-free with everyone else or get off the store - we won't mix and match".

That can't possibly be right. That would make Apple a Good Guy.
 
One reason I can see for Apple not wanting to put up some DRM-free tracks right now is that it will set the precedent for a mix of rights on the iTMS. If they do that then there's no pressure on the labels to cave, as they'd just say "well, you can sell everyone else's stuff DRM free, but keep it on our stuff please". Right now, if a few labels get on board then Apple can use that leverage to tell the stalling labels "make your stuff DRM-free with everyone else or get off the store - we won't mix and match".

This kind of leverage is precisely what's got the recording industry scared. When they insisted on DRM, they expected it to be a magic bullet that gave them all the bargaining chips. They didn't see a store rising to become such a dominant force. To be honest, I don't think Apple saw it happening, either.

Twice now, the record companies have got greedy and expected to be able to just force their requests on the market, both times to be rebuffed by Apple. First, they wanted to increase the price of tracks to whatever they felt like on a track-by-track basis, and then again by trying to claim a percentage of player hardware sales revenues.

Note that the industry managed to wrangle both of these concessions from Microsoft for the Zune store, as well as being able to set extra restrictions to the DRM on a track-by-track basis (disabling Zune sharing). So much for "wanting interoperability".

This is a great post, I'm quoting it in the hopes that it is more likely that people will read it.

Reading through this thread I see a lot of good ideas being bounced around.

Personally, the only two things I can see working, are a DRM for the entire online music store industry.
OR no DRMs.
When you think about it like Steve has said the majority of music sold is DRMless, so do you think the songs in file sharing sites are hacked DRM songs? or ripped cds?
People have been pirating music for years, the internet has made that "worse" although many argue that they purchase more music because of it (albeit they neglect to say that the "steal" more music because of it as well).

I had another point, but alas I have forgotten it.
 
If Jobs was sincere in his comments he could prove it today by putting at least a few non-DRM'd tracks on iTunes. There are any number in indy band that have asked that their music by DRM free. All he'd have to do is say "Yes" to one of the smaller labels that does not want DRM. He can't blame ALL the labels. Heck, if he REALLY wanted to publish DRM free content he could sign a few artists himself,

Until iTunes does this I don't believe what jobs said

That would ruin the consistency of the store. Right now the customer knows exactly what he can and can't do with ITMS-content. Variable DRM would ruin that. If Apple started to sell some DRM-free content in ITMS; labels would start to insist on variable DRM.
 
Message to RIAA

Bite me.

They're in league with the Norwegian "Consumer" Association in generously offering Apple's copy protection and iTunes store to Microsoft. Illegal collusion, no? Look, I'm getting more and more serious here: this is typical behavior when Microsoft money is being passed around in bribes. Remember SCO? When you can't beat somebody, pay somebody to spread stories? Sure looks suspicious to me.
 
what a bunch of *********.

i am in the music industry. i'd prefer non drm material. but the above post is pretty much why labels wanted drm in the first place.

So they could make the music sold through online-stores less appealing than P2P? O..... K.... Want to eliminate P2P-piracy? Here's how to do it: Make the legal music more appealing than pirated music. How to do that?

- Hi-quality and consistent encoding
- Reliable downloads
- Album-art etc.

P2P-music has no DRM, so you are free to do whatever you want with it. Now, does usage-limitations on legal content make it more appealing to consumers, or less appealing to consumers? What do I, as a consumer get from DRM? How does it benefit me? With P2P I get music that is not limited in any shape or form, why should I pay for music that has all kinds of usage-limitations on it?

Note: I do not use P2P, I'm speaking hypothetically.

don't forget the cause of drm for music downloads, limewire and other p2p stealing software.

It's not "stealing". And the reason for DRM is not piracy, it's control.
 
apple music publishing?

Replying to myself.

Additional thought: one way that Apple could do it it this: nestled into the Apple Corps peace treaty is the news that Apple can now enter music publishing. So maybe they sign some bands, and distribute them DRM-free. How would that be?

I don't know what Jobs will do next. But the fact is, he's an interesting character. You never really know. Would Gates have published that open letter? Not in a gazilllion years. He's brainy, but he has this much imagination: 0. And this much sympathy for the people: -1.
 
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