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Lol, you really just typed that...

Those who don't like the keyboards are either forceful people who don't understand the design philosophy, or they are sheepishly obeying some online noise that was created by the competition's sock puppets.

Actually, that is worse than the previous comment. I had one keyboard repaired on a 2016 MBP, I never gave them the chance when 2018 failed, just got a refund.

Suggesting that I don't understand keyboard design which in turn means I press too hard on the keyboard causing it to be my fault it fails... Troll? Or just well, you know :rolleyes:
 
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This is a perfect example of why Apple needs to ditch their butterfly mechanism. Switch back to the older one that worked reliably, please!
 
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You might get chunkier keyboard that fits your personality type, better GPU support and games, but that's all.
[...]
We use Macs because they save us time. The keyboards you complain about are there to teach us to conserve energy and motion and be more efficient. Those who don't like the keyboards are either forceful people who don't understand the design philosophy [...]
Mostly people want a keyboard that works. If all Apple's innovation of recent years is into the garbage keyboards they ship in recent MBPs then the design team should be fired.
 
OP wrote:
"I'm on my third MacBook with the butterfly keyboards..."

The answer:
Get yourself a 2015 MacBook Pro (either 13" or 15").
New-old-stock, refurbished (Apple still sells the 15" model in the refurbished store, when they become available), or even used.

Do this, and your "keyboard problems" will be solved.
 
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QUESTION, what exactly is causing the keyboard issues? Is it stuff (crumbs) getting under the keys? It is power typers hammering on it? I have read just a little about the issue. I am in the market for an Apple laptop for one of my kids for college. Thank you for any info.
 
QUESTION, what exactly is causing the keyboard issues? Is it stuff (crumbs) getting under the keys? It is power typers hammering on it? I have read just a little about the issue. I am in the market for an Apple laptop for one of my kids for college. Thank you for any info.

We don’t know for sure. Could be debris, could be heat, could be wear.
 
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We don’t know for sure. Could be debris, could be heat, could be wear.

Thanks for the info. Would it be fairly safe to say if one did not eat with the laptop in front of them and was just using it for school work, spreadsheets, web surfing, email, nothing very intensive they would be ok? I understand if it is a design flaw then who knows.
 
Thanks for the info. Would it be fairly safe to say if one did not eat with the laptop in front of them and was just using it for school work, spreadsheets, web surfing, email, nothing very intensive they would be ok? I understand if it is a design flaw then who knows.


There have been posts from folks with keyboard issues who say their laptops are pristine, so I wouldn’t assume so. But there is a four year keyboard replacement program, so you’re covered there for four years in case the updated design is still problematic.
 
i just question how many peeps who post about this really own the effected keyboards

I know many that have never had an issue and are shocked that I have had two fails, at least one, in particular, does not treat their MBP the way I did, i.e. they ate over it, crumbs were not cared about and so on, never an issue. Yet I regularly cleaned mine, never ate over either and so on. Really is pot luck.
 
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The problem with the keyboard is the fact that they decided to redesign it to make it thinner, when literally nobody was asking for any of the changes they made.

They already made a thinner keyboard compared to the 2015 laptops called the magic keyboard that they use to this day on the desktop.

That always should’ve been the keyboard that went into the new laptops
 
They already made a thinner keyboard compared to the 2015 laptops called the magic keyboard that they use to this day on the desktop.

I am typing on the magic keyboard with number pad, this is my second, I liked the space grey better than the original. Never had a single issue with either. Well apart from the bending issue but that is easily dealt with. That is all they need to put/leave on the MBP.
 
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Thanks for the info. Would it be fairly safe to say if one did not eat with the laptop in front of them and was just using it for school work, spreadsheets, web surfing, email, nothing very intensive they would be ok? I understand if it is a design flaw then who knows.

I would not say that is a safe bet at all. I don’t eat near mine, keep it closed when not in use, blow it out periodically using Apples online prescribed method and have still had keyboard issues. They are either going to have an issue or not have an issue, regardless of what the user does or does not do. The “dust” and eating around it comments are nothing but straw-man arguments IMHO
 
Think he means people commenting, yet they don't own or use one of the affected MacBook's, personally I suffered several years of the Butterfly Keyboard...

Q-6

Oh ok. For sure. It’s a discussion forum, people discuss stuff. I couldn’t imagine a forum where you’d have to own the device in order to be able to discuss it, or you have to have a specific issue in order to be able to comment. That would be nuts.
 
Oh ok. For sure. It’s a discussion forum, people discuss stuff. I couldn’t imagine a forum where you’d have to own the device in order to be able to discuss it, or you have to have a specific issue in order to be able to comment. That would be nuts.
The requirement to actually own the device experiencing the issue in order to discuss it is also a straw man... because if a commenter DOES own the device that is experiencing the issue, then they're told that they must have done something to cause the problem. "Blame the customer" is a first-flinch response to problems with Apple products.

What we're seeing here is a community that is in transition. Apple products were always made to give Apple a healthy profit. As the cost to production dropped, so did the price. Not necessarily dollar-for-dollar, but that was the general trend. It is why the Macbook Air started out at a base price of $1800 but then steadily dropped over the years to $1000 MSRP (and discounted even lower)

But now Apple products are made cheaper but the MSRP remains the same (or slightly higher) and upgrades cost more on top of that. So even if sales volumes drop, Apple will maintain a consistent profit stream.

This is causing some in the community to reconsider what role Apple products have in their workflows. They're not so quick to buy the latest model, no longer eager to be "all in" on the Appleland ecosystem. They're seeing Apple products in a different light, not so easily embracing the hyperbole around the deficiencies in Apple's competitors' products, and becoming more financially circumspect.

There are others, in increasing numbers, saying that they "have no choice" because they are too entrenched. The reluctantly continue to buy Apple products.

The rest, they're happy as a clam with the current state of Apple products and continue to enjoy buying their products. But they are becoming increasingly defensive as issues are brought to light because it causes them to have to explain how they can still be delighted in the face of an increasing number of issues.

This is a transition from the community eagerly buying Apple products and enjoying them, to being splintered into different groups who use different Apple products for different reasons... sometimes "forced" to use what they see as an inferior product because of the hold the ecosystem has on them.

One thing that I try to do is to help those who are seeking advice. I try to cut through the positive hyperbole of Apple fans to show how a particular Apple product is helpful to the seeker, what is overkill, and what is not applicable. I try to cut through the negative hyperbole of the lower end products that try to convince the seeker to buy the more expensive option.
 
Oh ok. For sure. It’s a discussion forum, people discuss stuff. I couldn’t imagine a forum where you’d have to own the device in order to be able to discuss it, or you have to have a specific issue in order to be able to comment. That would be nuts.

Agreed. With the Butterfly Keyboard there's several distinct issues;
  • The poor record of reliability
  • High cost of repair in both time & money
  • Lack of travel/feedback, which for many adds up to a poor user experience
Personally I don't see it as mandatory to own a MacBook to understand that there's something seriously amiss, same applies to the poor cooling solution and subsequent negative impact on performance...

Q-6
 
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