iPod touch Realistic Expectations for iPod Touch 3G

[adbe]

that would be assisted GPS your describing, the iPhone has assisted GPS aswell so it's not really a GPS phone as it relies on either a mobile network connection or wifi for it to work

The iPhone *is* a GPS phone. It does not rely on a mobile network, or WiFi.

The 'Assisted' part of AGPS means that in *addition* to regular passive[1] GPS the iPhone can use other metrics such as cellphone tower triangulation, and presence of WiFi routers, to orientate itself. It does this to get a rough fix on where it is quickly, since GPS can often take up to a minute to get a location. If there were no cell towers or wifi around, you'd still get GPS, it'd just take longer than you are used to for the map to center on your current location.


[1] Passive as in, it'd work just fine on the Touch.

 

[adbe]

Microphone I think is a 50/50 as it really does take the iPod dangerously close to the iPhone but I could maybe see Apple including the iPhone headphones with the iPod. Not sure about that one.

I don't really see Skype over WiFi as being a serious threat to AT&T or the iPhone any time soon. Sure if you're in a city WiFi may be useable. For everyone else, their WiFi coverage is their house. You think 3G coverage is bad?

My guess is that stuff like better speakers, and microphones will happen because increasingly Apple is seeing the Touch as a portable gaming device. Those features will be used by gamers, and will drive upgrades. Similarly, the compass is a given for the next model.

Geo-tagging is an interesting idea, but unless Apple decide to make a Touch Premium, I doubt both Camera and GPS would make the cut this year.

 

[andybno1]

The iPhone *is* a GPS phone. It does not rely on a mobile network, or WiFi.

The 'Assisted' part of AGPS means that in *addition* to regular passive[1] GPS the iPhone can use other metrics such as cellphone tower triangulation, and presence of WiFi routers, to orientate itself. It does this to get a rough fix on where it is quickly, since GPS can often take up to a minute to get a location. If there were no cell towers or wifi around, you'd still get GPS, it'd just take longer than you are used to for the map to center on your current location.


[1] Passive as in, it'd work just fine on the Touch.

well there you go then I thought assisted gps was gps that required wifi or mobile network connection and not proper gps.....a lesson learned

 

[Jimmy James]

It would be pointless to have GPS if you only have Wi-Fi connectivity. Not very useful.

The Global Positioning System (GPS) does not use wifi. Location based applications that do use wifi are not GPS, they are cheap imitations.

I would say that a GPS device that is dependent on internet access (of any form) is not very useful.

 

[Jimmy James]

A certain amount of depth is required to house a 3mp autofocus camera. I'm wondering if the current design is too thin.

 

[nateo200]

The Global Positioning System (GPS) does not use wifi. Location based applications that do use wifi are not GPS, they are cheap imitations.

I would say that a GPS device that is dependent on internet access (of any form) is not very useful.

Thank you. I think it's a bit shallow and ignorant to base everything you know about GPS on the iPod touch. Really when GPS came out it was before wifi. Imagine your in Africa and you get lost, what use is a GPS if you need a hotspot to use it?

 

[puffnstuff]

I don't know why people keep arguing that you need cell towers in order for gps to work

TomTom, Garmin ,etc do not use cell towers they use GPS satellites. /facepalm

 

[nateo200]

I don't know why people keep arguing that you need cell towers in order for gps to work

TomTom, Garmin ,etc do not use cell towers they use GPS satellites. /facepalm

Exactly. That's why they were so revolutionary....

 

[randomusername]

I've seen a lot of threads with people wanting tons of things for the new iPod. Although it is all speculation, and your guess is as good as mine, I'm trying to be realistic as to what the new Touch will have, based on Apple's history.

Plastic Backing: No
We all hate the metal backing of the iPod, but I don't expect that to change. It has been the backing of all of Apple's highest end iPods, and there seems to be no reason to change it. I think Apple likes the fact that it scratches so easily, it makes people want to buy new ones every year. Although there's no doubt a plastic backing would be welcome by many, I don't think it will happen.

64 GB: Yes
Seems logical. I don't think that Apple likes having the same maximum capacity on both the iPhone and the iPod Touch. The iPod is meant to be a media device more so than the iPhone, so it's only logical that the highest end model have more capacity. I would expect 16, 32, and 64 gig models replacing the current lineup and the same price points.

Fingerprint-resistant oleophobic coating: Yes
Apple quietly put this on the iPhone 3GS, meaning it's not a huge deal. Apple usually likes to play up even minor additions (i.e. MMS and Video Recording). So the fact they didn't play this up tells me its rather simple and I expect it to reach the iPod, also quietly.

Camera: Yes
Call me crazy, but I think this is going to happen. One reason was an Apple job listing looking for people to work on cameras for the iPod. The second reason is logical. Apple's 2G Touch was a very incremental update. It changed its appearance slightly, added a volume rocker, a speaker, and several other small changes. This was a very small upgrade, and Apple is not usually known to do 2 minor upgrades on iPods back-to-back. I think many people resisted the temptation to upgrade from 1G to 2G, and Apple needs to do something big to the iPod to get people to upgrade. So even though it's a toss up, I'm predicting it will have the same camera as the iPhone with video recording. It's the slam dunk new feature that Apple could use to drive sales of the device.

GPS: No
Would love to have it, but I just have a gut feeling you won't see it on this iPod. Can't explain it, just don't think it will happen.

Microphone: Yes
The inclusion of the Voice Memos application on the iPod Touch 3.0 software sealed the deal on this for me. It makes no sense to have a non removable app like that on the Touch if very few of its owners can use it. Out of the box, every iPod user should be able to use every Apple application, including Voice Memos. Although, I'm not necessarily saying the microphone will be on the device. In fact I think it's more likely the microphone will be on the headphones, similar to the iPhone's headphones. Just expect there to be a microphone somewhere inside the Touch's packaging.

3G: No
I don't know why anyone thinks this is possible. The iPod is not a cell phone.

Thinner: Yes
But only slightly. Ever so slightly. Likely unnoticeable.

Better battery life, faster performance: Yes
This is a given, every Apple product is always more battery efficient and faster than the previous model. It will be interesting though to see just how much better they get. The battery will likely only get incrementally better, but the faster performance is a tough one. It will definitely be faster, but whether it is incremental like the 2G Touch, or considerably faster like the iPhone 3GS, remains to be seen. I'm leaning more towards 3GS.

Compass: No
I think the average person is only going to use the compass on the 3GS to aid in using the GPS. Since the iPod won't have GPS (in my opinion), the compass is almost useless.

Voice Control: Yes
This makes sense. Since I believe a microphone will be included with every device, it's logical to include this feature.

Front-facing camera: No
This will never happen on any iPod. Apple is all about clean design. Nothing looks worse than a camera protruding out on the front of the device. It's ugly and I don't think Apple believes enough people would use the feature to warrant its inclusion.

Better speaker: Yes
The speaker on the 2G Touch is lackluster. Better speakers exist for the iPhone. Expect an upgrade, even though it likely won't be heavily advertised.

AM/FM Tuner: No
People have wanted this forever, and it will never happen. Never has, never will. Even more so now that there are apps that let you listen to radio over the internet.

Aluminum unibody design: No
While I could potentially see this in the future, you won't see it on the 3G Touch. I expect the Touch's physical design to remain very similar to the 2G model. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if it's identical (aside from the camera on the back).

So that's all I could think of, if I come up with more I'll update the thread. I think that the biggest new feature of the device will be a camera, and that will be Apple's biggest selling point. They can not do another incremental update to this device, and the only plausible huge feature they can add is a camera, so I think they're going to do it. A lot of people don't think they will, but two years ago we didn't think an iPod would ever have internet and look at the device now. We can't imagine it without it. So in my opinion, look for the new iPod Touch this September to include a camera, as well as the other features I described above.

I agree with you completely. I can definitely see a camera, better speaker, oleophobic screen, 64GB model, microphone, and same CPU, GPU, and RAM as the 3GS. I also agree with the lack of GPS and a compass in this model. I won't say those will never come to the iPod Touch, but they won't come this time. I think we'll see GPS features in the fourth generation. I don't think Apple could fit a camera and then another radio and sensor into the iPod Touch this time. And even if they can, I doubt they will. Adding a camera to an iPod will be a killer feature and by not adding GPS, they'll have another killer feature to add later on.

 

[Celtic-moniker]

I don't know why people keep arguing that you need cell towers in order for gps to work

Ok, I don't know why you guys are getting so stuck on the FM radio and GPS thing. These are, for the most part non-core options for the iPod Touch. As such, would (variably) make useless and expensive additions to the product line.

Radio, would be by far the most useless. Yes, yes, yes.. Zune has one. And like everything Microsoft, the Zune is high on content and low on functionality and reliability. When I got my first iPod, I loved it because it was like a radio-station that was for me! I had 1000 tunes, all hand picked by myself which would play randomly (If I so chose) while I worked. Yet I didn't have to listen to posturing Bogans waffling crap (Bogan is an Australian term BTW).

Microsoft loves to advertise their products based on the 'It has everything!!' principle. And Bill Gates has been more than willing to admit it in the past. The community wants quantity, not quality. Have a look at how PC users buy their computers. They buy on the basis of what has the most crap in it.

But FM Radio? Meh.... Couldn't care less.

And now to the next useless feature: GPS.

I can hear the grinding of teeth while many of you gnash away, poised to jump on my statement and tell me how usefull GPS has been. So let me be breif:

It's a friggen media player. IF you already know GPS is useful, it's because you already have a device that does it. A dedicated device is, and always will be a better solution for GPS.

I'm hearing all this waffle about fitting a 'GPS chip'. Sounds great, but GPS has some very complicated electronics. Just because your mobile phone seems to have GPS, doesn't mean it is using the same system as your TomTom.

Adding a useful GPS functionality would increase the iPod Touch to potentially twice it's width. It would need complicated electronics and aerials, and a much bigger battery. Afterall... GPS via satellite (non base-station) burns power. And that's not even covering the storage space needed for the applications to make a non network tethered GPS functional.

And for those of you who fantastically think it should be included so that you get a 'find my iPod' application, you're dreamin'.

Have a massively thicker iPod touch, just so you can find the thing after you lose it? I think Apple would rather you go out and just buy another one. It's only in the iPhone as a novelty application anyway. Not having it in the latest iPhone wouldn't have been a dealbreaker.

it would be even more useless in the iPod touch. It could only send back to the base station it's whereabouts when the person connected to a WiFi network. Which would be reliant on the thief to connect it. You'd be sitting there for days going 'Where's my iPod'. And even then, the GPS functionality would be a total bust, because your iPod will get a more accurate reading as to where it is off it's WiFi connection anyway!

And it would have to be a thief that connects it to WiFi. I hardly believe that some good samaritan is going to think 'OH! I've just found this person's iPod touch. I'm going to go against my better judgement (not going through someone else's stuff) and turn it on, and go through all the settings to connect it to my WiFi network, just so they can know where it is'.

Come on guys. It plays music, videos and some awesome games. you can browse the web, email, ebay, youtube, and about a thousand other things.

GPS functionality might be great somewhere down the road, but right now? Pffffffft.

And bugger radio, all they ever play is Nickleback.

 

[adbe]

I also agree with the lack of GPS and a compass in this model.

The compass is not just for navigation, and almost certainly *will* be in the new Touch.

 

[adbe]

O
I'm hearing all this waffle about fitting a 'GPS chip'. Sounds great, but GPS has some very complicated electronics. Just because your mobile phone seems to have GPS, doesn't mean it is using the same system as your TomTom.

iPhone?

And that's not even covering the storage space needed for the applications to make a non network tethered GPS functional.

~2GB for most practical purposes. I can spare it.

And for those of you who fantastically think it should be included so that you get a 'find my iPod' application, you're dreamin'.

I missed that post? Or is this a strawman?

 

[puffnstuff]

The iPod already has FM radio all it needs is some sort of software update to unlock it. It's not like they would be adding anything more it's in there already. The FM radio would at least get more use then the Nike crap they have on there.

 

[Celtic-moniker]

iPhone?



~2GB for most practical purposes. I can spare it.
[/QUOTE]

iPhone connects two separate ways. And I don't know about you, but the case for the iPhone is a heck of a lot thicker than the iPod touch. As well as the price (buying one outright is a heck of a lot more expensive than an iPod touch).

You're also sacrificing more than 2 gig of space. You're sacrificing battery life.

If you use a GPS on a regular basis, you'd buy a GPS unit. Otherwise, 2 gig of space is a lot to sacrifice for something that you would use only sparingly.

As for find my ipod... read back.

 

[Jimmy James]

I'm definitely going to buy an ipod touch. I'm probably going to buy a gps unit.

I would prefer not having to buy/store/mount/maintain a separate gps unit. I would much prefer the ipod to do both. I'm sure there are many others that would gladly discard their standalone gps unit in order to consolidate.

The fact that gps has already been implemented in the iphone is what is giving people hope for the ipod touch. These devices are more similar than not.

I think it's naive to say that people will want both units separately, or only one.

 

[sportsfrk214]

I agree with you completely. I can definitely see a camera, better speaker, oleophobic screen, 64GB model, microphone, and same CPU, GPU, and RAM as the 3GS. I also agree with the lack of GPS and a compass in this model. I won't say those will never come to the iPod Touch, but they won't come this time. I think we'll see GPS features in the fourth generation. I don't think Apple could fit a camera and then another radio and sensor into the iPod Touch this time. And even if they can, I doubt they will. Adding a camera to an iPod will be a killer feature and by not adding GPS, they'll have another killer feature to add later on.

Best reply so far. I think many people have forgotten that these are my predictions for the 3G model, I could very well see some of the things I said won't be on this model being included on the 4G and so on.

GPS is something I could possibly see coming to a future model, but not this one. As you said, GPS and a Camera would be considered two huge additions to the Touch, so Apple will try to milk it into two separate products to get people to upgrade twice (if they eventually add both, that is).

As for radio, which seems to be getting people bent out of shape, I just don't see it ever. This "technology" could have been including on the 1st Generation iPod back in 2001 if Apple had wanted it, and on every iPod since then. But it hasn't, and there's a reason for that. The whole concept behind an iPod is that you don't need a radio anymore, you can have all your songs on one device (in much high quality than radio), you can shuffle them (just like radio), you can access any song whenever you want (unlike radio), and you don't have to worry about subpar DJs and commercials (unlike radio). The iPod was meant to replace radio, including it as a feature makes absolutely no sense. Just because the technology exists on the device to have radio doesn't mean it's going to be unlocked.

 

[villageindian]

My thoughts:

Plastic Backing: I am going with the current back although I think matte finish might be possible.

64 GB: Yes. with 16GB the entry point unless they make the 8GB at $79/99/129 akin to the iPhone 3G.

Fingerprint-resistant oleophobic coating: Yup.

Camera: I am guessing the 3.2MP with both picture and video capabilities. They dont call it the funnest iPod for nothing. Maybe this time but def. in future versions.

GPS: Street views works fine for now. Not needed unless there is a way to access without WiFi which is impossible. (unless you get a Verizon MiFi)

Microphone: The mic works with voice memos app in OS 3.0

3G: Again this thing???? Get the iPhone.

Better battery life, faster performance: This is where I think we are going to see a diff architecture in processor speed. Next gen ARM processor underclocked like the iPhone 3GS. With larger battery for better life and increased RAM to make it a "new" competitor to PSP and other gaming devices

Compass: Nope

Voice Control: Maybe. But I think the potential is to tie it with gaming. Not as a standalone in the current iPhone 3GS.

Better speaker: Oh yes

AM/FM Tuner: No. Radios are out of tune.

 

[Jimmy James]

GPS: Street views works fine for now. Not needed unless there is a way to access without WiFi which is impossible. (unless you get a Verizon MiFi)

GPS does NOT require wifi. Any location-based device that relies solely on a data connection to perform its function is a crippled implementation.

Modern aircraft utilize GPS and do not navigate by jumping between hotspots or cell tower coverage

I use GPS in the back country where there is no coverage of any sort and that's the whole point!

 

[KrazyKuul]

You forgot to mention the OLED screen. The zune hd is going to have one, and I think the new iPod Touch will too. This will save alot of battery since It does not need a backlight.

Here is my take on the iPod Touch 3rd gen. No more plastic Wi-Fi anteanna cover, just a camera. I have a flash in it because this was originally a redesigned iPhone, but I changed my mind early on, but never took the flash off. follow the link below, and then follow the link in there to my youtube video.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/730111/

watch the youtube video, and comment and rate if you like.

 

[thleeal]

something ive missed

hi guys, n gals, i just wanted to raise an issue ive been thinking about.
that is netbooks, basically with teh 3.0 features i see little in teh way of a difference between an ipod touch and a netbook, in some cases teh ipod wins, like size, etc. with the ability to write basic pages/word docs on the move and sync them with an mac/pc there would be even less (just waiting for an app i think?). the only way i can see in which a netbook wins is teh webcam for things like ichat. stick a forward facing cam on the ipod with the gps. i see no need to get a netbook. if your thinking software on ur lil pc, im thinking apps combat that easily. just a thaught about how apple could nip the netbook trend in the bud. so perhaps a foward facing cam, with the normal cam on teh back and GPS and ill have one in a heartbeat.

what do u guys think?

ps. im dislexic so forgiv any shornings/mis spellings.

thleeal - just w8ing to get to brum for my new MBP 13inch - paid for by selling very early alu imac bace model ooo im so excited

 

[thleeal]

crap summat i forgot

just thinking i fthey are selling the ipod as a gaming device, teh DSI has a camera/s??? also will teh pspGO.? so maybe apple will be forced to stick in a camera to fight off teh copetition.

thleeal

 

[anti-microsoft]

I think the iPod touch will be announced including the following features in September:

- New Design with a sturdier feeling
- 16-64GB Capacity
- Oleo-phobic Screen
- Voice Control: I think that they will include this just because the iPod shuffle has the talk feature and I think the new Nanos and maybe Classics will have it as well.
- 3MP Camera with autofocus and maybe video
- Compass: Maybe but unlikely
- Microphone on Headphones
- Improved speaker with holes

Ams.

 

[adbe]

iPhone connects two separate ways.

To GPS? No it doesn't. It connects[1] in exactly one way, which is the same way that all GPS devices work.

I'm way out of date on parts such as cameras, and GPS chips, but last time I looked a camera needs far more physical depth than a GPS system, so if anything a camera would change the form factor of the Touch more than GPS would.

And I don't know about you, but the case for the iPhone is a heck of a lot thicker than the iPod touch. As well as the price (buying one outright is a heck of a lot more expensive than an iPod touch).

It's thicker, but not unreasonably so. As for price, yes, and the phone chipset, aerial, and associated licensing fees only factor so much of that cost. That said, I think the iPhone used better parts for a number of components than the Touch. The screen was better in at least one generation of the devices, for example. There might be a quite a bit of room to move margins around.

You're also sacrificing more than 2 gig of space. You're sacrificing battery life.

I don't agree. Putting aside the fact that this is even more the case for the iPhone than it is the Touch, since arguably you need a charged phone more than you need a charged MP3 player, the GPS is only active when an app that uses location services such as a navigation app is running. At any other time, location services are not using heavy amounts of power.

If you use a GPS on a regular basis, you'd buy a GPS unit.

I have one. I'd rather have a small portable device that is always with me, and can get me out of trouble in those odd times where I'd not have expected to find myself in need of GPS.

Otherwise, 2 gig of space is a lot to sacrifice for something that you would use only sparingly.

Maybe on an 8GB device, but hardly on a 64GB unit, and if the number of people who claim they can't fill a 16GB Touch is any indication, even the 32GB Touch will be oversubscribed for storage.

As for find my ipod... read back.

Given that some idiots are still claiming that GPS needs WiFi or a 3G/Edge connection, I'm inclined to take your word for it.



[1] It doesn't even connect, since GPS is entirely passive. It simply receives.

 

[villageindian]

I agree with you normally. But please tell me an alternate way that GPS can be accessed on the Touch? Instead of triangulation, they could put an actual GPS chip but it still needs to talk to the satellites. Apple can put an Enhanced-GPS (E-GPS) chip that is better than current GPS chips. e-GPS is much faster in downloading ephimeral data by getting it in the background. So, you can get a faster fix on the location.

As of now, the Touch uses triangulation for "GPS". I don't foresee Apple changing it much because it is not the main focus for the Touch. I can see a change if we get location-based games or apps that require GPS. So, the turn-by-turn apps is a start. Whether iPod Touch will support it earnestly is left to Apple.

My guess is no. Simply because iPhone is the "data device" and the Touch is the "game device".

GPS does NOT require wifi. Any location-based device that relies solely on a data connection to perform its function is a crippled implementation.

Modern aircraft utilize GPS and do not navigate by jumping between hotspots or cell tower coverage

I use GPS in the back country where there is no coverage of any sort and that's the whole point!

 

[adbe]

I agree with you normally. But please tell me how GPS can be accessed on the Touch? Instead of triangulation, they could put an A-GPS chip but it still needs to talk to the satellites.

There are at least three threads active right now where this has been beaten to death!

GPS does *not* need any extra services. Have you ever looked at a GPS system in a car? Where's the WiFi or Cell access there?

It's a completely passive system. The GPS device does not 'connect' to anything. Please go read wikipedia, or just use the damn search function on this forum.