Reality of issues upgrading from 14" M1 Max to 14" M2 Max?

[project_2501]

After years with a 2015 MBP (13" and 15"), and a brief terrible time with the 2017 MBP nTB, I upgraded to a 14" MBP M1 Max with 24 GPU courses - widely reported as being the sweetspot, with more GPU cores diminishing value.

Sadly the machine had issues so it was returned to Apple. They won't replace it like-for-like as they don't officially sell the M1 Max any more. So it looks like it will have to be an M2 Max.

I'm sticking with a 14" as the 16" is just too big to lug around without hating it (for me).

Having read reviews, comments and watched videos I am aware of possible problems and disadvantages:

* M2 Max is too power hungry for a 14" chassis, leading to throttling - so value £/performance is reduced.
* M2 14" laptops have smaller heat dissipator than the 14" M1 laptops.
* Higher temperatures for the same tasks.
* quick to trigger fans.

And potential advantages:

* more efficiency cores should mean longer batter life, lower temps and reduced fans for the same workloads

The use of more efficiency cores SHOULD mean apple has rebalanced the design - but I'm not reading this in reviews.

Question 1 - what is YOUR own experience of this in reality? Not what the reviews say - what is your own actual experience?

My opinion at this point - it does seem like Apple had the thermal design sweetspot with the M1 Max-24 but for marketing reasons they have to "upgrade' and have pushed the M2 past the optimal spot.

Question 2 - Is there any way to get a 2021 14" M1 Max with 32GB RAM, 24-GPU cores, 2TB SSD in the UK that will still receive apple's full warranty?

 

[dmccloud]

I think the throttling issues have been blown far out of proportion. I know that in the MaxTech video they even admitted that they were running tests that went far above and beyond even the biggest normal workloads, essentially letting out the fact that they designed that test to fail the 14" Pro in the process. As far as the heatsink between the M1 and M2 14" Pros is concerned, they didn't really shrink it as much as they redesigned it. I mentioned in another thread that I have only seen slight heating up of the 14" M2 Max model, and that was after doing an extended render of 8k video. Likewise, I have yet to hear the fans themselves, although I could hear the air being exhausted from the Mac during the aforementioned render.

 

[project_2501]

I think the throttling issues have been blown far out of proportion. I know that in the MaxTech video they even admitted that they were running tests that went far above and beyond even the biggest normal workloads, essentially letting out the fact that they designed that test to fail the 14" Pro in the process. As far as the heatsink between the M1 and M2 14" Pros is concerned, they didn't really shrink it as much as they redesigned it. I mentioned in another thread that I have only seen slight heating up of the 14" M2 Max model, and that was after doing an extended render of 8k video. Likewise, I have yet to hear the fans themselves, although I could hear the air being exhausted from the Mac during the aforementioned render.

Thanks @dmccloud - that is useful.

I myself also found the 14" M1 Max almost never fired up its fans.

Since you have the 14" M2 Max - have you noticed any unreliability with bluetooth, if you use it? It is the one issue I have had with the 2015 .. and for some reason really severe on the 2021 M1 Max ... which is the reason for return.

 

[bnumerick]

Thanks @dmccloud - that is useful.

I myself also found the 14" M1 Max almost never fired up its fans.

Since you have the 14" M2 Max - have you noticed any unreliability with bluetooth, if you use it? It is the one issue I have had with the 2015 .. and for some reason really severe on the 2021 M1 Max ... which is the reason for return.

I did a lot of testing with the various 14" M1/M2 models. If you were happy with the M1 Max you'll be happy with the M2 version. Like for like in the same form factor it does perform better than the previous version. The systems aren't really thermal throttling as it's just the maximum amount power they're allowed to draw that is causing them to throttle in most cases. The 16" model is allowed to pull an extra ~30 watts compared to the 14" so in some situations if you're using software that uses a lot of GPU and CPU at the same time it will exhibit "throttling" due to it needing to split the power budget up. Basically in the 14" power budget allows you to use max GPU or max CPU. If you're in a load that uses a lot of both that's where it will suffer and slow the CPUs down compared to the 16" models but the 14" M1 Max versions had the same limitation. In most situations that's not something the majority of people need to worry about too much.

 

[Yebubbleman]

The M1 Pro and M1 Max, being the same in both bodies, was very clearly engineered for the 16-inch chassis first and foremost. Same goes for M2 Pro and M2 Max.

I do think the binned version of the M1 Pro and now the binned version of the M2 Pro is probably the most optimal to get for the 14-inch chassis from the standpoint of minimizing instances where the fans could come on and maximizing battery life.

Then again, for the kinds of things where one NEEDS an M1 Max or M2 Max and where an M1 Pro or M2 Pro wouldn't suffice just as well, I don't know how those same things wouldn't be really annoying on a smaller screen.

 

[dmccloud]

Thanks @dmccloud - that is useful.

I myself also found the 14" M1 Max almost never fired up its fans.

Since you have the 14" M2 Max - have you noticed any unreliability with bluetooth, if you use it? It is the one issue I have had with the 2015 .. and for some reason really severe on the 2021 M1 Max ... which is the reason for return.

The only bluetooth devices I use with my Mac are my Airpods Pro and Magic Mouse - and I haven't had any issues with connectivity for either device.

 

[xraydoc]

The M1 Pro and M1 Max, being the same in both bodies, was very clearly engineered for the 16-inch chassis first and foremost. Same goes for M2 Pro and M2 Max.

I do think the binned version of the M1 Pro and now the binned version of the M2 Pro is probably the most optimal to get for the 14-inch chassis from the standpoint of minimizing instances where the fans could come on and maximizing battery life.

Then again, for the kinds of things where one NEEDS an M1 Max or M2 Max and where an M1 Pro or M2 Pro wouldn't suffice just as well, I don't know how those same things wouldn't be really annoying on a smaller screen.

While you might be right for the Max, I think the M1 Pro has absolutely no problem running in the 14" form factor. I've got the 10/16 core (full version) of the M1 Pro and I've never faced a situation with throttling, heat issues, excess fan noise, slow downs, heat-related crashes, or anything else. It's been as solid as any other Mac I've ever owned, maybe even more so.

I'd have no worries about an M1 Pro or an M2 Pro (binned or not) in the 14" form factor.

The Max versions, with essentially 2x the number of GPU cores, might be a different issue, but I'll refrain from commenting as I've got no personal experience with them.

 

[richinaus]

While you might be right for the Max, I think the M1 Pro has absolutely no problem running in the 14" form factor. I've got the 10/16 core (full version) of the M1 Pro and I've never faced a situation with throttling, heat issues, excess fan noise, slow downs, heat-related crashes, or anything else. It's been as solid as any other Mac I've ever owned, maybe even more so.

I'd have no worries about an M1 Pro or an M2 Pro (binned or not) in the 14" form factor.

The Max versions, with essentially 2x the number of GPU cores, might be a different issue, but I'll refrain from commenting as I've got no personal experience with them.

Sometimes I wonder if people need the computer they have bought [except for screen size] as I have the M1 Max 14 and routinely have loud fans, heat etc. This is simply due to challenging and taking it to the limits, hence the need to be purchasing the top end mac pro laptop.

Day to day use there is no sound and low heat, but I could have got a MacBook air for that.

 

[xraydoc]

Sometimes I wonder if people need the computer they have bought [except for screen size] as I have the M1 Max 14 and routinely have loud fans, heat etc. This is simply due to challenging and taking it to the limits, hence the need to be purchasing the top end mac pro laptop.

Day to day use there is no sound and low heat, but I could have got a MacBook air for that.

While my M1 Pro isn’t permanently pegged to 100% on the CPU, I do push it periodically with Osirix MD, an app that can push both CPU and GPU quite throughly.

But from what I’ve read, the Max version of the chip is definitely constrained in the 14” machine.

 

[bnumerick]

But from what I’ve read, the Max version of the chip is definitely constrained in the 14” machine.

Yup it is. As I mentioned above it is not even heat that's the primary constraint in the current form. In Video AI my M1 Pro uses ~15 watts on the GPU leaving about ~15 watts for the CPU which is plenty. The 14" Max versions eat up ~25-30watts for the GPU which takes almost the entire power budget so not leaving much left for the CPUs. The 16" Max version gets 45-50watts for the GPU still leaving enough headroom to run the CPUs decently well. I tested every 14" Max variant against my M1 Pro and both of the M1 Max versions performed slower and the M2 Max versions were just a hair faster in that software. My 16" models are about twice as fast as my 14" M1 Pro.

 

[richinaus]

Yup it is. As I mentioned above it is not even heat that's the primary constraint in the current form. In Video AI my M1 Pro uses ~15 watts on the GPU leaving about ~15 watts for the CPU which is plenty. The 14" Max versions eat up ~25-30watts for the GPU which takes almost the entire power budget so not leaving much left for the CPUs. The 16" Max version gets 45-50watts for the GPU still leaving enough headroom to run the CPUs decently well. I tested every 14" Max variant against my M1 Pro and both of the M1 Max versions performed slower and the M2 Max versions were just a hair faster in that software. My 16" models are about twice as fast as my 14" M1 Pro.

yep, but I bought the 14" for portability and is an excellent computer for what it does.
The Studio Ultra does the heavy lifting. As far as I am concerned, all laptops are a compromise on some level.

 

[Yebubbleman]

While you might be right for the Max, I think the M1 Pro has absolutely no problem running in the 14" form factor. I've got the 10/16 core (full version) of the M1 Pro and I've never faced a situation with throttling, heat issues, excess fan noise, slow downs, heat-related crashes, or anything else. It's been as solid as any other Mac I've ever owned, maybe even more so.

The M1 Pro doesn't have "problems" per se in the 14-inch model. There are tons of M1 Pro 14-inch MacBook Pros out there that run totally fine and probably always will. However, the M1 Pro (and M2 Pro as well) will always run better in a 16-inch chassis. You're always going to have less fan noise (again, I recognize that it wasn't much to begin with) and you're always going to have much more battery life. That's what I mean about the two chips being clearly designed with the 16-inch model in mind, first and foremost. That's where the experience is at its most optimal and you can tell that was the Mac Apple cared more about the experience of these chips inside of.

The binned M1 Pro and binned M2 Pro (both of which are not and were never available in a 16-inch MacBook Pro) might be better suited to the 14-inch chassis due to reduced core counts. I don't know if that's enough to gain THAT much back in battery life, but it probably helps.

I'd have no worries about an M1 Pro or an M2 Pro (binned or not) in the 14" form factor.

Again, it's not about worrying that the machine will fall apart or break. They'll be fine. Just that it's clearly the second class citizen next to the 16-inch MacBook Pro when it comes to the form factor these chips were designed for. And for how much these things cost, I'm not about to spend money for an experience that has any compromises. But to each their own.

The Max versions, with essentially 2x the number of GPU cores, might be a different issue, but I'll refrain from commenting as I've got no personal experience with them.

The M1 Max 14-inch got the same CPU cooler that the M1 Pro 14-inch got. Whereas the M1 Max 16-inch got a different CPU cooler than that of the M1 Pro 16-inch. That's how it should've been. Apparently Apple corrected this with the M2 Max version of the 14-inch. But, if we're talking about models that I'd be worried about the reliability of over the long haul, I'd say the M1 Max 14-inch MacBook Pros are the only ones that really come to mind.

Otherwise, it's more that if I'm buying a 2021 or 2023 MacBook Pro, unless it's a binned M1 Pro or binned M2 Pro, I'm going to get a worse experience with battery life and thermals (even if only slightly) than I will from the 16-inch equivalent. With only a $200 difference, I see no reason to do that. But, again, to each their own.

 

[xraydoc]

As far as I am concerned, all laptops are a compromise on some level.

Very true.

For every laptop, there are three key characteristics:

- Performance
- Battery life
- Portability

Buyer only gets to pick two.

 

[dcarmichael]

I think the throttling issues have been blown far out of proportion. I know that in the MaxTech video they even admitted that they were running tests that went far above and beyond even the biggest normal workloads, essentially letting out the fact that they designed that test to fail the 14" Pro in the process. As far as the heatsink between the M1 and M2 14" Pros is concerned, they didn't really shrink it as much as they redesigned it. I mentioned in another thread that I have only seen slight heating up of the 14" M2 Max model, and that was after doing an extended render of 8k video. Likewise, I have yet to hear the fans themselves, although I could hear the air being exhausted from the Mac during the aforementioned render.

Interesting! I've been thinking about a 14" M2 Max as an upgrade from my 2017 MacBook Pro (3.1GHz quad-core i7) and was concerned about the throttling/heat issues. I'm an audio/IT person first and foremost.. would the 14" Max heat up more than usual with heavy audio workloads?

 

[maflynn]

- Performance
- Battery life
- Portability

Buyer only gets to pick two.

I think the appeal for the M1/M2 chips is that you got all three. I understand there are more sacrifices with the Max variant, but hear me out. For the first time, we have a laptop that has great performance, that is very portable and has great battery life. Apple's ARM MBPs are the first laptops to give you high performance regardless if you're on battery or mains and that battery life is much better then other power PC laptops.

My Razer is a great laptop, but if I can get 4 hours of battery, I'd be lucky - and I don't mean 4 hours of game playing. I have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme (that my wife now uses) and that gets better battery life but no where near the MBP. In both cases, when I go on battery performance is severely cut back

 

[dmccloud]

I think the appeal for the M1/M2 chips is that you got all three. I understand there are more sacrifices with the Max variant, but hear me out. For the first time, we have a laptop that has great performance, that is very portable and has great battery life. Apple's ARM MBPs are the first laptops to give you high performance regardless if you're on battery or mains and that battery life is much better then other power PC laptops.

My Razer is a great laptop, but if I can get 4 hours of battery, I'd be lucky - and I don't mean 4 hours of game playing. I have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme (that my wife now uses) and that gets better battery life but no where near the MBP. In both cases, when I go on battery performance is severely cut back

On Saturday night, I was using my 14' MBP to help run an event while also transferring multiple GBs of data between external HDDs. In the span of six hours, the battery only dropped from 100% to around 45-49%. This was with low power mode turned off. The ability to take this laptop with me and NOT having to worry about finding a power outlet or having to bring the charger as well is a major convenience.

 

[xraydoc]

I think the appeal for the M1/M2 chips is that you got all three. I understand there are more sacrifices with the Max variant, but hear me out. For the first time, we have a laptop that has great performance, that is very portable and has great battery life. Apple's ARM MBPs are the first laptops to give you high performance regardless if you're on battery or mains and that battery life is much better then other power PC laptops.

My Razer is a great laptop, but if I can get 4 hours of battery, I'd be lucky - and I don't mean 4 hours of game playing. I have a Thinkpad X1 Extreme (that my wife now uses) and that gets better battery life but no where near the MBP. In both cases, when I go on battery performance is severely cut back

Oh, I 100% agree with you. I was responding to someone who was commenting that his Max processor impacted battery life and ramped up the fans.

Prior to my M1 Pro MBP (and briefly an M1 MBA), I used a Microsoft Surface Book 2 i7 with an nVidia dGPU. Great machine when powered off the mains. But if I wanted more than around four hours of battery life with any kind of decent screen brightness, I had to disable the GPU and reduce the CPU speed. I think my old Core Solo Mac mini was faster when in that scenario. My M1 Pro MBP running off battery (lasting 9+ hours) is faster than my desktop PC using up 1200 watts of continuous power.