REALLY worried about MBP - Magic Toolbar & ports

JCarmona

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Original poster
May 23, 2014
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I'm a little bit "scared" of what's coming tomorrow.

Removing the function keys and having a Magic Toolbar will make the functionality of the MacBook Pro extremely dependent on software updates and that the developers really take the updates seriously.

For example; if running Microsoft Excel 2010 in Parallels Desktop (which is a bi-annual rent), how are the Function keys (vital for Excel usage) going to work? Is the Magic Toolbar going to adapt to this type of software?

Don't get me started on a "Pro" computer that requires dongles to work with SD Cards, USB's or to be connected to an HDMI screen.

Really considering the Hackintosh alternative or definitely making my mind around that, even though is a great OS, the hardware part is weakening.
 

Samuelsan2001

macrumors 604
Oct 24, 2013
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If it's not what you want don't get one that simple.

As to your concerns I see no reason it can't be a normal function bar for non touch bar apps.

USBc will be the port of choice in all new computers so new cables for a few peripherals must be expected whatever you buy.
 

frankgrimes

macrumors 6502a
Jun 13, 2016
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Nothing to get worked over.

For me it's simple I would prefer the MBP because of the service but if Apple puts a butterfly keyboard in there and all slots are USB C ..well that' would obviously be a dealbreaker. and I'd choose a broadwell version or probably the XPS 13 or Surfacebook 2.

As far as that OLED bar goes, I'm not a fan of it and believe it doesn't add anything useful and like you said it will depend a lot on software updates. Also I may be in the minority but when typing I'm not looking at my keyboard I'm looking at the display, screen so the OLED information really doesn't do anything for me.
 
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leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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For example; if running Microsoft Excel 2010 in Parallels Desktop (which is a bi-annual rent), how are the Function keys (vital for Excel usage) going to work? Is the Magic Toolbar going to adapt to this type of software?
I am quite sure that it will work as normal function keys, unless an app does a specific override (we still haven't seen any APIs for that, so its the question how much control the software can even exert on the toolbar)

Don't get me started on a "Pro" computer that requires dongles to work with SD Cards, USB's or to be connected to an HDMI screen.
Most USB devices already require a dongle - its called a USB cable. Instead of using e.g. a USB-A to micro-USB/USB-B cable that you are using now to connect your external HDD, you'll just use a USB-C to whatever cable. Yes, USB sticks are going to be a problem - but there are already dozens USB-C compatible (or even dual USB-C/USB-A compatible) sticks on the market. For video, I don't see a principal difference. I already have to carry a VGA and DVI dongle around, because not all beamers still have HDMI output. SD Cards are a problem for people who use it frequently though, yes. But do we even know for sure that its getting removed?

Really considering the Hackintosh alternative or definitely making my mind around that, even though is a great OS, the hardware part is weakening.
If anything, its getting stronger. USB-C is simply more flexible and powerful - in any regard. Even silly things like being able to charge from both sides of the laptop is a quality life improvement.
 
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JCarmona

macrumors member
Original poster
May 23, 2014
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If it's not what you want don't get one that simple.

As to your concerns I see no reason it can't be a normal function bar for non touch bar apps.

USBc will be the port of choice in all new computers so new cables for a few peripherals must be expected whatever you buy.
Thank you for sharing one of the most dumb arguments I have ever heard...
 

mctrials23

macrumors 6502
Sep 19, 2013
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Thank you for sharing one of the most dumb arguments I have ever heard...
Its actually a pretty good one. Your argument seems to be that apple will build a new laptop with a touch bar and then ignore the fact that it needs to interface with the OS.

If you don't like the changes they make, don't buy it. If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it. They will update the internals of the current rMBP and discount it and its still a really good machine. Most people won't need to hook their macbook up to 4 different dongles all the time and I am excited about the prospect of an actual docking solution that allows me to plug my computer in via a single port at home and suddenly 2 monitors, all my usb devices, ethernet etc is connected.

That and we still don't know what ports this thing has!
 

maflynn

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I'm a little bit "scared" of what's coming tomorrow.
Don't be afraid, seems rather silly to be so fearful of a computer roll out.

Simple option is if the MBP doesn't have what you want, then don't buy it.
[doublepost=1477476749][/doublepost]
USBc will be the port of choice in all new computers so new cables for a few peripherals must be expected whatever you buy.
USB-C is the new world order (at least when it comes to ports), and I think everyone would be up in arms if it didn't have USB-C
 

JCarmona

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Original poster
May 23, 2014
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I am quite sure that it will work as normal function keys, unless an app does a specific override (we still haven't seen any APIs for that, so its the question how much control the software can even exert on the toolbar)



Most USB devices already require a dongle - its called a USB cable. Instead of using e.g. a USB-A to micro-USB/USB-B cable that you are using now to connect your external HDD, you'll just use a USB-C to whatever cable. Yes, USB sticks are going to be a problem - but there are already dozens USB-C compatible (or even dual USB-C/USB-A compatible) sticks on the market. For video, I don't see a principal difference. I already have to carry a VGA and DVI dongle around, because not all beamers still have HDMI output. SD Cards are a problem for people who use it frequently though, yes. But do we even know for sure that its getting removed?



If anything, its getting stronger. USB-C is simply more flexible and powerful - in any regard. Even silly things like being able to charge from both sides of the laptop is a quality life improvement.
a) The Magic Toolbar, since there are no API's, it's actual value is remain to be seen.
b) Mmmm, so I have to buy an adapter to the cable of my external HDD? Connect the dongle to a new dongle? Or your solution is to buy a new HDD? USB sticks are going to be a problem, indeed. So your solution is to buy a new everything, in order to accommodate to Apple's wishes? Just read a little bit on how Sony business went when they tried that. SD Cards, exactly, is going to be a problem and we don't know; therefore the title is I'm scared, not I'm disappointed.
c) If you decide to buy a $1000 laptop on the fact that "you can charge it on both sides", well... there's nothing more to be said; sad.
 
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maflynn

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a) The Magic Toolbar, since there are no API's, it's actual value is remain to be seen.
I have not read up on what apple stated with regard to the Magic Toolbar, have they said there will be no APIs?

b) Mmmm, so I have to buy an adapter to the cable of my external HDD?
That's the way of the computer world, when a new port is being adopted, you need to adjust until the peripherals catch up

c) If you decide to buy a $1000 laptop on the fact that "you can charge it on both sides", well... there's nothing more to be said; sad.
So you're saying its sad that you can charge the laptop on both sides o_O
 

JCarmona

macrumors member
Original poster
May 23, 2014
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55
Its actually a pretty good one. Your argument seems to be that apple will build a new laptop with a touch bar and then ignore the fact that it needs to interface with the OS.

If you don't like the changes they make, don't buy it. If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it. They will update the internals of the current rMBP and discount it and its still a really good machine. Most people won't need to hook their macbook up to 4 different dongles all the time and I am excited about the prospect of an actual docking solution that allows me to plug my computer in via a single port at home and suddenly 2 monitors, all my usb devices, ethernet etc is connected.

That and we still don't know what ports this thing has!
And then somehow, you made it dumber.... Stop with the "If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it"; the idea is to discuss how as consumers a product can fit our needs (or create new needs, like Steve perfectly did) damn it, Marketing 101. If there is something I could improve of a product, I'm going to share it. If you don't agree, just shhh.

Can you please elaborate on: "They will update the internals of the current rMBP and discount it and its still a really good machine"; this was the kinda input I was looking when I posted.

It would be a good idea for Apple to create docking stations

Cheers,
[doublepost=1477477188][/doublepost]
I have not read up on what apple stated with regard to the Magic Toolbar, have they said there will be no APIs?


That's the way of the computer world, when a new port is being adopted, you need to adjust until the peripherals catch up


So you're saying its sad that you can charge the laptop on both sides o_O
a) You said: "we still haven't seen any APIs for that".
b) Insist, read on VAIO and Sony.
c) It wouldn't make a difference in my purchasing decision; what is sad is the level of discussion
 

maflynn

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a) You said: "we still haven't seen any APIs for that".
b) Insist, read on VAIO and Sony.
c) It wouldn't make a difference in my purchasing decision; what is sad is the level of discussion
a) Yes, Apple hasn't released any information on an unreleased product, or am I missing something. Apple does not comment on unlreased products, never mind releasing APU info to the public
b) what does Vaio have anything to do with new ports required dongles (I'm not happy with them, but things catch up quickly).
c) fair enough, you were the one who posted you were afraid, and I think most of the posts stated that if you don't like what you see, you're free to NOT buy the MBP. I'm not seeing how the discussion is at a sad level when the advice is simple enough - don't buy it. I think you cam here to gripe and found responses that you were not expecting
 

JCarmona

macrumors member
Original poster
May 23, 2014
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a) Yes, Apple hasn't released any information on an unreleased product, or am I missing something. Apple does not comment on unlreased products, never mind releasing APU info to the public
b) what does Vaio have anything to do with new ports required dongles (I'm not happy with them, but things catch up quickly).
c) fair enough, you were the one who posted you were afraid, and I think most of the posts stated that if you don't like what you see, you're free to NOT buy the MBP. I'm not seeing how the discussion is at a sad level when the advice is simple enough - don't buy it. I think you cam here to gripe and found responses that you were not expecting
a) Therefore "I'm afraid"; not "disappointed" or "angry" or whatever. Afraid means: "worried that something undesirable will occur or be done"; in the FUTURE!!!

b) Just read; Memory Stick and the way Sony tried to impose its own standards. I'm not going to make my case and explain the basics of Digital Economy in this forum; unfortunately, very slowly, Apple is repeating Sony's mistakes.

c) Stop with the "If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it"; the idea is to discuss how as consumers a product can fit our needs (or create new needs, like Steve perfectly did) damn it, Marketing 101. If there is something I could improve of a product, I'm going to share it. If you don't have anything smart to add to the conversation, please omit yourself.
 

Dave245

macrumors 604
Sep 15, 2013
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I think it's a case of people worrying because Apple are changing what we are all use to. That's a good thing tho, Apple are moving forward, that's what we want and what they usually do anyway. If after tomorrows event, you don't like the MacBook Pro they will have announced, don't buy one.

Personally i'm waiting to see what features the OLED Touch bar has, i'm not going to dismiss it yet, i think Apple Pay on the web is a great feature and the OLED Touch bar will help with that, however when it comes to other features like in apps, using safari and things like that i think there is BIG potential.
If you are using Final Cut Pro or any other professional software, the Touch Bar could be VERY useful if for example we could use features such has fast forward, being able to cut clips together and so on.
 

JCarmona

macrumors member
Original poster
May 23, 2014
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55
I think it's a case of people worrying because Apple are changing what we are all use to. That's a good thing tho, Apple are moving forward, that's what we want and what they usually do anyway. If after tomorrows event, you don't like the MacBook Pro they will have announced, don't buy one.

Personally i'm waiting to see what features the OLED Touch bar has, i'm not going to dismiss it yet, i think Apple Pay on the web is a great feature and the OLED Touch bar will help with that, however when it comes to other features like in apps, using safari and things like that i think there is BIG potential.
If you are using Final Cut Pro or any other professional software, the Touch Bar could be VERY useful if for example we could use features such has fast forward, being able to cut clips together and so on.
Good to know that someone sees potential on the OLED Touch Bar; i hope it does. Unfortunately I don't used Final Cut Pro, so don't know what you are talking about.

Cheers,
 

Dave245

macrumors 604
Sep 15, 2013
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Good to know that someone sees potential on the OLED Touch Bar; i hope it does. Unfortunately I don't used Final Cut Pro, so don't know what you are talking about.

Cheers,
I think there is BIG potential in the OLED Touch bar, if it's opened up to developers who will use it in their apps, i think it could be a very useful feature. Apple may even demo or get someone from another company up on stage to demo the feature and how it works with 3rd party apps. Maybe at the beginning we will only see Apple apps work with it, but like i said i can also see it being opened up to 3rd party developers eventually. Final Cut is just an example for professionals, i could also see it being useful for things as simple as Safari.
 
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ascender

macrumors 68040
Dec 8, 2005
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Thing is, at the moment nobody knows and I'm sure Apple have thought about those scenarios. I can see real potential in that touchscreen function bar if it dynamically and seamlessly adjusts to whatever active app is on screen at the time and even moreso if users can map function keys.

As for the ports, we really don't know what's going on so some patience is all that's needed. Or failing that, 32 new threads panicking about it and arguing what a "pro" computer actually us.
 

maflynn

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a) Therefore "I'm afraid"; not "disappointed" or "angry" or whatever. Afraid means: "worried that something undesirable will occur or be done"; in the FUTURE!!!
You just wrote that you were scared about tomorrow's rollout

b) Just read; Memory Stick and the way Sony tried to impose its own standards. I'm not going to make my case and explain the basics of Digital Economy in this forum; unfortunately, very slowly, Apple is repeating Sony's mistakes.
the difference is that USB-C is a universal standard already being adopted by other computer makers, The memory stick was a proprietary device, much like apple's lightening port.
c) Stop with the "If it doesn't fit your needs, don't buy it"
But that's the bottom line, if product A, does not fit your needs, get product B. Instead you go on a diatribe of fearful tribulation, when that's not needed at all. Clearly the direction Apple is going may not fit your needs, so find a product that does.

I did this with my laptop purchase personally, and got a Surface Book, because it fit my needs better then what the current MBPs could do.
 

JCarmona

macrumors member
Original poster
May 23, 2014
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I think there is BIG potential in the OLED Touch bar, if it's opened up to developers who will use it in their apps, i think it could be a very useful feature. Apple may even demo or get someone from another company up on stage to demo the feature and how it works with 3rd party apps. Maybe at the beginning we will only see Apple apps work with it, but like i said i can also see it being opened up to 3rd party developers eventually. Final Cut is just an example for professionals, i could also see it being useful for things as simple as Safari.
My concern is what happens whilst developers put them into their apps or apps that are no longer supported. I assume in those cases the OLED Touch bar will present the F1 - F12 keys and work normally.
[doublepost=1477479604][/doublepost]
You jus wrote that you were about tomorrow, not the future


the difference is that USB-C is a universal standard already being adopted by other computer makers, The memory stick was a proprietary device, much like apple's lightening port.

But that's the bottom line, if product A, does not fit your needs, get product B. Instead you go on a diatribe of fearful tribulation, when that's not needed at all. Clearly the direction Apple is going may not fit your needs, so find a product that does.

I did this with my laptop purchase personally, and got a Surface Book, because it fit my needs better then what the current MBPs could do.
a) You know that "tomorrow" is in the "future"? Just checking.

b) Yes, and Sony also supported SD cards in their laptops... I insist; read about Digital Economics and the Sony case

c) Therefore, the last part of my post reads: "Really considering the Hackintosh alternative or definitely making my mind around that, even though is a great OS, the hardware part is weakening" If after 10 years, Apple doesn't longer fit my needs, and my needs have remained unchanged; Apple is developing weaker products or changing its target market. By having less than 15% of global market share in PC's and depending on 70% of their revenue in iPhone; there seems that the Mac lineup is becoming niche and they don't care, which is worrisome from the long term business perspective. But your analysis stops at "If you don't like it, don't buy it"
 

maflynn

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a) You know that "tomorrow" is in the "future"? Just checking.
I reworded my post, to convey what I meant, I admit I composed it awkwardly.

I insist; read about Digital Economics and the Sony case
I insist, using a universal standard is completely different then Sony's pushing a propriety solution. Why not quote the pertinent parts of that article/story in the thread an make your case.

"Really considering the Hackintosh alternative
That works, though sometimes upgrading can be problematic. I went the hackintosh route for a while, it was a fun experiment but its not something I personally would want to do long term.

But your analysis stops at "If you don't like it, don't buy it"
That's because that's the end result of
Apple doesn't longer fit my needs,
 

Hadron

macrumors regular
Apr 13, 2010
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b) Just read; Memory Stick and the way Sony tried to impose its own standards. I'm not going to make my case and explain the basics of Digital Economy in this forum; unfortunately, very slowly, Apple is repeating Sony's mistakes
Actually this is one point where I do disagree. If Apple do what we expect then they are actually moving to something where all of the ports are an open standard, unlike the Lightning connector (entirely Apple) or Thunderbolt (not an Apple standard, but many people assume it is because so few others use it). That's different from Memory Stick, where Sony tried to make their individual format a standard and failed.

That said, although moving to USB-C only is a very typical Apple move, it's also typical in that it doesn't consider the convenience of its customers. Everyone has a load of flash drives, and people do use them for transferring data between machines. That's not going to change overnight because Apple decide to change ports, it just means any Apple customers will need another dongle (a new dual-format drive doesn't solve the problem of someone giving you a file on theirs). Retaining one USB-A port would solve that. It means that any other peripherals you have need dongles or replacements, including those that are already working through dongles to fit the previous Apple port choices and those that were previously standard connections. Docks are fine at a desk, but many of us use a laptop on the move or for travel, so you still end up with the dongles in addition (or a second dock, in effect a very big dongle).

So yes, in the future USB-C will be the standard, but we're at the start of the transition. Deciding to remove all other ports rather than introducing USB-C to the mix (e.g. replacing the Thunderbolt ports with USB-C, or even just adding a couple of ports) will be an additional cost and inconvenience to many owners. But it is also very Apple to just do it and leave that to be the customers' problem, and the writing was on the wall when the Macbook came out last year. Maybe if their customers were less loyal they'd be more cautious?

(OLED bar: Let's see what the implementation is, and let's see what use others can make of it. Could be a benefit, might just be a gimmick that makes little difference in reality, could be an inconvenience if it ends up shutting out a function in a place you want to use it. Will wait and see).
 

cyb3rdud3

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Jun 22, 2014
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I'm not worried about the toolbar or anything. It is really simple, if I like it then I'll buy it, if I don't then I don't. I wouldn't worry about it, not going to loose any sleep either. Live will go on and nobody will die.

In fact - I did switch to a Surface Pro 3 with Windows 10 a while back after many decades using a Mac. It is fine, but I would like to come back. But jeez can't say it worries me either way.
 

leman

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Oct 14, 2008
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b) Mmmm, so I have to buy an adapter to the cable of my external HDD? Connect the dongle to a new dongle?
You buy a new cable (which is like $10 or less) to replace your old cable. There is no dongle on dongle. Unless you have one of those weird HDDs with integrated USB cable (why would one ever buy that?)

USB sticks are going to be a problem, indeed
Given that USB sticks usually don't have very long life expectation and literally cost few bucks, I don't think that the problem is that significant. E.g. a 16GB Kingston Data Tarveler with both USB-C and USB-A is CHF 19 here in Switzerland. So its probably cheaper somewhere else.

So your solution is to buy a new everything, in order to accommodate to Apple's wishes?
So far, Apple has been doing quite well despite their aggressive port transitions. USB-A to USB-C is not the first one they have done and certainly not the most dramatic one.


If you decide to buy a $1000 laptop on the fact that "you can charge it on both sides", well... there's nothing more to be said; sad.
I decide to buy a $3000 laptop on the fact that its faster, lighter, more ergonomic and more flexible. The fact that one can charge it on both sides is just a neat bonus.
 
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