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RealNetworks To Sell iPod-Compatible Songs
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Boo-Radle-Hoo... If a person buys an iPod and then defects to the enemy, they deserve to get the Firmware hose. iTunes is THE BEST store for online music... REAL's store is a joke. If they go there, I have no problem with Apple pulling the DRM out from under them.Sir_Giggles said:
I have to go along with everyone who said that Real is about to be sued, but, I do not think this is a situation where Real gets they're pants sued off them. I think Apple's best move is to just sue Real into part of the profits of their reverse-engineered DRM (because afterall, it was reverse engineered to mimic Fairplay, which is to some degree Apple's work). I think if Apple does this everyone wins, because Apple and Real's DRMs will hopefully at this point be on the same page, and there's not many music stores that wouldn't want to be iPod compatible, so people will license Real's DRM, Apple will get part of the $, and more iPods will sell, yet more $ for Apple.
The other thought is, why not just leave Real alone, then start licensing Fairplay to others. Suddenly, Real's reverse-engineered DRM just looks like a risky, cheap imitation.
The other thought is, why not just leave Real alone, then start licensing Fairplay to others. Suddenly, Real's reverse-engineered DRM just looks like a risky, cheap imitation.
A Bit Confused!!
Ok, I've seen pros and cons to this situation, and I haven't read all of the posts but I have a few ?'s. For the folks who say that Apple has a monopoly and that the Harmony's competition is good and legal...... ITMS has competition (even though minimal) from other online stores and the iPod has competition as well. Saying that Real should be able to sell songs that are compatible with iPods is like saying Playstation2 should be able to make a player that can play X-Box games. Both systems can play Madden, which would be equivalent to ITMS and Rhapsody selling the same CD's. When you purchase a PS2 game,you know that it will only play on a PS2, and when you purchase a song from ITMS you know it will only play on an iPod. If PS2 has an exclusive game, should Microsoft be able to make a system that will play it??? I just don't see Sony letting that one slide and saying that it's good for competition.
Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but it just doesn't sound right to me. If I am way off base here, please let me know.
Thanks,
R.
Ok, I've seen pros and cons to this situation, and I haven't read all of the posts but I have a few ?'s. For the folks who say that Apple has a monopoly and that the Harmony's competition is good and legal...... ITMS has competition (even though minimal) from other online stores and the iPod has competition as well. Saying that Real should be able to sell songs that are compatible with iPods is like saying Playstation2 should be able to make a player that can play X-Box games. Both systems can play Madden, which would be equivalent to ITMS and Rhapsody selling the same CD's. When you purchase a PS2 game,you know that it will only play on a PS2, and when you purchase a song from ITMS you know it will only play on an iPod. If PS2 has an exclusive game, should Microsoft be able to make a system that will play it??? I just don't see Sony letting that one slide and saying that it's good for competition.
Maybe I'm not seeing something here, but it just doesn't sound right to me. If I am way off base here, please let me know.
Thanks,
R.
it isnt really his decision
"A long time from now," he said, "people will look back at our announcement and say it was a great benefit for Apple."
It is not his company he has no say in it. If real wants to make their own player and music store and open it to everyone that is fine but the ipod is not their product. Apple feels that it would be best to keep it a closed system and that is apple's decision alone. That would be like sending your old dad to a retirement home and saying that since he didnt wanna buy you that house with his money or didnt give it to a charity we need to do something about it and put him in a home and spend the money the right way. Customers know that the ipod plays aac's from itunes only and mp3's and stuff from cd's. They bought it knowing that and if they want it to work a diffrent way they should make their own product or buy something else. Apple will do what they think best and if they sue real it is really their right to cause real is telling them how their product should work.
"A long time from now," he said, "people will look back at our announcement and say it was a great benefit for Apple."
It is not his company he has no say in it. If real wants to make their own player and music store and open it to everyone that is fine but the ipod is not their product. Apple feels that it would be best to keep it a closed system and that is apple's decision alone. That would be like sending your old dad to a retirement home and saying that since he didnt wanna buy you that house with his money or didnt give it to a charity we need to do something about it and put him in a home and spend the money the right way. Customers know that the ipod plays aac's from itunes only and mp3's and stuff from cd's. They bought it knowing that and if they want it to work a diffrent way they should make their own product or buy something else. Apple will do what they think best and if they sue real it is really their right to cause real is telling them how their product should work.
For those interested, Ive compiled some more background information about Real, Harmony and FairPlay.
What it doesnt do
Harmony does not break the DRM scheme used by Apple. Harmony does not allow you to transfer your iTMS files into RealPlayer. Harmony does not allow you to convert iTMS songs to Helix DRM or Windows Media DRM files. Harmony does not allow your iTMS songs to be played on any other device other than your iPod.
What does it do
The only thing the Harmony technology lets you do it transfer the songs you bought on the RealPlayer Music Store onto you iPod, in a format that is both DRM protected and understood by the iPod. In other words it allows you to convert Helix DRM protected files to FairPlay compatible DRM protected files.
First of all, Karl Lillevold, senior codec engineer at Real has confirmed my original theory on how Harmony works.
Secondly, the windows version of the beta is now available on real.com, which Ive installed and played around with a bit.
Basically it works like this: Just like the iTunes Music Store and iTunes, you use RealPlayer to buy songs from the RealPlayer Music Store. It isnt as user-friendly as iTunes, but if you disregard the differences in user-interface design it basically works in the same way. When you buy a song using RealPlayer in the RealPlayer Music Store youll get a Helix DRM protected .rm file with a 192 Kbps AAC stream inside. This file is stored on the hard drive of your computer and can only be played by RealPlayer.
When you connect you iPod to your computer and start RealPlayer, the iPod will appear as a device in the Burn/Transfer tab. You can select the device and copy tracks onto it. The tracks you can copy are regular MP3 files, regular AAC files and RealPlayer Music Store files.
When you transfer a RealPlayer Music Store file onto your iPod using RealPlayer it will transparently decrypt the file and encrypt it again using a FairPlay compatible algorithm. The FairPlay compatible file is then copied onto the iPod.
The AAC stream inside the Helix DRM protected file is not touched by RealPlayer. Which means that the FairPlay compatible file will contain the same 192 Kbps AAC stream as the Helix DRM protected file.
So, it is now confirmed that:
Can Apple stop Real?
Yes, and it is actually pretty easy to do. The FairPlay DRM files sold by Apple are always in 128 Kbps. The FairPlay compatible DRM files used by RealPlayer are 192 Kbps. Apple would also need to release a new firmware for the iPod that checks the bitrate of the DRM protected file. If it is anything else than 128 Kbps, it is not an official song sold by Apple. Based on these criteria Apple could place a block in the firmware.
The drawback is that this would stop Apple from selling 192 Kbps songs in the future, because if Apple would also start selling 192 Kbps songs, they can no longer distinguish their own songs from RealPlayer Music Store files.
Can Real workaround a Apple blockade?
Yes, and this is also pretty easy to do. If the RealPlayer would re-encode their 192Kbps AAC stream to a regular 128 Kbps AAC stream the FairPlay compatible DRM file would be in disguisable from Apples own files. Apple wouldnt be able to block these files without revising the DRM scheme and making every song sold to date incompatible with the newer firmware.
The reason Real is doing this
Real is a software company. It doesnt make hardware MP3 players, so their Music Store depends on hardware devices made by other vendors. The RealPlayer Music Store uses their own Helix DRM format, so these other vendors must support Helix DRM if they want their customers to be able to play songs bought from the RealPlayer Music Store.
This is a big problem for Real, because up till now only one hardware player from Creative supports Helix DRM. So, up till today you could buy songs from Real, but you couldnt do much with it.
Real had to make their music store compatible with more players. They either had to choose between Windows Media DRM or FairPlay DRM. They asked Apple permission to move to FairPlay, which would allow their files to be played on the iPod. Apple told them they werent interested.
As it turns out they kept their own DRM after all, and chose another way to solve their problem. The Harmony technology which transparently convert your Helix DRM files to Windows Media DRM or FairPlay compatible DRM.
The disadvantages for Apple
There are of course disadvantages for Apple. The most important one is that Apple is going to have to compete with the RealPlayer Music Store. iPod users can now buy their songs from somewhere else, which could mean that the iTMS is going to sell less songs.
In reality I dont think this will be a big problem for Apple. Buying songs from Real isnt as easy as buying songs from Apple. Transferring these songs to the iPod using RealPlayer isnt as easy as using iTunes. And Apple has an incredible loyal user base who simply are not going to move to RealPlayer.
The advantages for Apple
The iTMS is a loss-leader. It doesnt make any money, but it helps sell iPods. Selling iPods does make a lot of money. So it is in Apples best interest to sell as much iPods as possible. Now consider all those RealPlayer Music Store users who now use a different hardware player. Previously they couldnt move the iPod without losing all their songs now they can.
The advantages for the users
Choice is always good. It will force Apple to compete and innovate. And that is something they demonstrated to be very good at. They came very late to the market with their MP3 player and immediately turned it into a market leader. The same thing applies to the iTMS. With increased competition their products will get even better.
Apple should block Real or even better sue Real into oblivion
You can sue everybody for anything. If I dont like how you look at me I can drag you into a courtroom and make you explain yourself in front of a judge. But when I do that the judge is going to be pretty pissed at me for wasting his time. In order to win in a court of law the other party needs to have broken the law. Looking cross-eyed at somebody isnt breaking the law. Its very likely Real isnt breaking the law either. So suing Real wont do Apple much good.
Blocking Real is also something they might not want to do, because this could turn things around. Imagine Real suing Apple for anti-competitive practices.
This is so unfair!
No, this is just business. When you release a product you cant control how people use it or what other services other companies offer for it. GM can't force you to use only GM spare parts. Sony Music can't force you use only Sony CD players. Microsoft cant force you to use only Internet Explorer on Windows. Likewise, Apple cant force you to run MacOS X on your G5. Apple cant force you to use Safari on MacOS X and Apple cant force you to use only iTMS songs on your iPod.
Apple did have a choice in whether to cooperate or not with Real in making their songs compatible with the iPod. They chose not to work together with Real. Thats a fair choice. But it is also a fair choice of Real to make their song compatible with the iPod without Apples help.
What it doesnt do
Harmony does not break the DRM scheme used by Apple. Harmony does not allow you to transfer your iTMS files into RealPlayer. Harmony does not allow you to convert iTMS songs to Helix DRM or Windows Media DRM files. Harmony does not allow your iTMS songs to be played on any other device other than your iPod.
What does it do
The only thing the Harmony technology lets you do it transfer the songs you bought on the RealPlayer Music Store onto you iPod, in a format that is both DRM protected and understood by the iPod. In other words it allows you to convert Helix DRM protected files to FairPlay compatible DRM protected files.
First of all, Karl Lillevold, senior codec engineer at Real has confirmed my original theory on how Harmony works.
Secondly, the windows version of the beta is now available on real.com, which Ive installed and played around with a bit.
Basically it works like this: Just like the iTunes Music Store and iTunes, you use RealPlayer to buy songs from the RealPlayer Music Store. It isnt as user-friendly as iTunes, but if you disregard the differences in user-interface design it basically works in the same way. When you buy a song using RealPlayer in the RealPlayer Music Store youll get a Helix DRM protected .rm file with a 192 Kbps AAC stream inside. This file is stored on the hard drive of your computer and can only be played by RealPlayer.
When you connect you iPod to your computer and start RealPlayer, the iPod will appear as a device in the Burn/Transfer tab. You can select the device and copy tracks onto it. The tracks you can copy are regular MP3 files, regular AAC files and RealPlayer Music Store files.
When you transfer a RealPlayer Music Store file onto your iPod using RealPlayer it will transparently decrypt the file and encrypt it again using a FairPlay compatible algorithm. The FairPlay compatible file is then copied onto the iPod.
The AAC stream inside the Helix DRM protected file is not touched by RealPlayer. Which means that the FairPlay compatible file will contain the same 192 Kbps AAC stream as the Helix DRM protected file.
So, it is now confirmed that:
- The files sold by Real are 192 Kbps AAC protected by Helix DRM
- You need to use RealPlayer to buy the songs and transfer them to your iPod
- The RealPlayer application does the conversion to FairPlay compatible DRM
- The file placed on the iPod by RealPlayer uses FairPlay compatible DRM
- The file placed on the iPod is also 192 Kbps AAC
- If you somehow transfer the file of the iPod, you cant play it in iTunes
Can Apple stop Real?
Yes, and it is actually pretty easy to do. The FairPlay DRM files sold by Apple are always in 128 Kbps. The FairPlay compatible DRM files used by RealPlayer are 192 Kbps. Apple would also need to release a new firmware for the iPod that checks the bitrate of the DRM protected file. If it is anything else than 128 Kbps, it is not an official song sold by Apple. Based on these criteria Apple could place a block in the firmware.
The drawback is that this would stop Apple from selling 192 Kbps songs in the future, because if Apple would also start selling 192 Kbps songs, they can no longer distinguish their own songs from RealPlayer Music Store files.
Can Real workaround a Apple blockade?
Yes, and this is also pretty easy to do. If the RealPlayer would re-encode their 192Kbps AAC stream to a regular 128 Kbps AAC stream the FairPlay compatible DRM file would be in disguisable from Apples own files. Apple wouldnt be able to block these files without revising the DRM scheme and making every song sold to date incompatible with the newer firmware.
The reason Real is doing this
Real is a software company. It doesnt make hardware MP3 players, so their Music Store depends on hardware devices made by other vendors. The RealPlayer Music Store uses their own Helix DRM format, so these other vendors must support Helix DRM if they want their customers to be able to play songs bought from the RealPlayer Music Store.
This is a big problem for Real, because up till now only one hardware player from Creative supports Helix DRM. So, up till today you could buy songs from Real, but you couldnt do much with it.
Real had to make their music store compatible with more players. They either had to choose between Windows Media DRM or FairPlay DRM. They asked Apple permission to move to FairPlay, which would allow their files to be played on the iPod. Apple told them they werent interested.
As it turns out they kept their own DRM after all, and chose another way to solve their problem. The Harmony technology which transparently convert your Helix DRM files to Windows Media DRM or FairPlay compatible DRM.
The disadvantages for Apple
There are of course disadvantages for Apple. The most important one is that Apple is going to have to compete with the RealPlayer Music Store. iPod users can now buy their songs from somewhere else, which could mean that the iTMS is going to sell less songs.
In reality I dont think this will be a big problem for Apple. Buying songs from Real isnt as easy as buying songs from Apple. Transferring these songs to the iPod using RealPlayer isnt as easy as using iTunes. And Apple has an incredible loyal user base who simply are not going to move to RealPlayer.
The advantages for Apple
The iTMS is a loss-leader. It doesnt make any money, but it helps sell iPods. Selling iPods does make a lot of money. So it is in Apples best interest to sell as much iPods as possible. Now consider all those RealPlayer Music Store users who now use a different hardware player. Previously they couldnt move the iPod without losing all their songs now they can.
The advantages for the users
Choice is always good. It will force Apple to compete and innovate. And that is something they demonstrated to be very good at. They came very late to the market with their MP3 player and immediately turned it into a market leader. The same thing applies to the iTMS. With increased competition their products will get even better.
Apple should block Real or even better sue Real into oblivion
You can sue everybody for anything. If I dont like how you look at me I can drag you into a courtroom and make you explain yourself in front of a judge. But when I do that the judge is going to be pretty pissed at me for wasting his time. In order to win in a court of law the other party needs to have broken the law. Looking cross-eyed at somebody isnt breaking the law. Its very likely Real isnt breaking the law either. So suing Real wont do Apple much good.
Blocking Real is also something they might not want to do, because this could turn things around. Imagine Real suing Apple for anti-competitive practices.
This is so unfair!
No, this is just business. When you release a product you cant control how people use it or what other services other companies offer for it. GM can't force you to use only GM spare parts. Sony Music can't force you use only Sony CD players. Microsoft cant force you to use only Internet Explorer on Windows. Likewise, Apple cant force you to run MacOS X on your G5. Apple cant force you to use Safari on MacOS X and Apple cant force you to use only iTMS songs on your iPod.
Apple did have a choice in whether to cooperate or not with Real in making their songs compatible with the iPod. They chose not to work together with Real. Thats a fair choice. But it is also a fair choice of Real to make their song compatible with the iPod without Apples help.
niels said:
"It's good enough"...
[as long as they don't know any better of course]
Not saying that you are one "niels", but isn't this the typical disclaimer for monopolysoft windrones apologists?
Frankly, it's dirty and underhand. I'd quite like the choice of higher-bitrate AACs to buy, but only if it was done in an open, above board way, and this just isn't. Whether it's technically legal or illegal I don't care - it's morally wrong to reverse-engineer and effectively pirate someone else's work. Whilst I'd have liked Apple to co-operate when Real approached them, I hope they sue the pants off Real now for this apparently desperate move.
I'm off to calm down.
I'm off to calm down.
Svenas1: In order to explain why these files wont play in iTunes I will need to explain how FairPlay works. Ill try to be as clear and brief as possible.
How FairPlay works
Each song you buy from the iTMS is encrypted using a random key. The song can only be played if the key is known. Apple has a database of all the songs you purchased and all the keys that belong to these songs.
Each computer that iTunes is installed on has a unique id, the GUID. These IDs are essential to make a distinction between two different computers. Each time you authorize a computer it sends the GUID to Apple which stores it in its database. When you de-authorize a computer it will remove the GUID from its database. This way Apple can track how many computers you authorized.
In addition, when you authorize a computer, iTunes will also receive a list of all the keys are needed to play the songs you bought. These keys are stored in its local key repository located somewhere on the hard drive. When you de-authorize the computer it will remove the keys.
So, an authorized computer is registered using its GUID in the Apple database, and all the keys it should need are located on the hard drive of the computer.
Now for a moment assume I have a copy of a song a friend of mine bought. When I try to play this song on my computer, iTunes will try to locate the key it needs. Unfortunately that key doesnt exist on my computer, so I am not able to play it.
The iPod works a bit different. Just like your computer, it also contains a key repository. Each time you transfer a protected song onto your iPod it will copy the key from the iTunes key repository to the iPod key repository. Remember, this one-way. iTunes wont let you copy the key from the iPod back into the iTunes key repository.
The reason why these key transfers are one-way is easy to explain using an example. Once again a friend of mine bought a song on the iTMS. This time he placed it on his iPod. If the key transfer was two-way, I could simply connect his iPod to my computer and copy the key onto my computer. From then on I would be able to play his file without even having to authorize my computer. So, in order for FairPlay DRM to work properly the key transfers must be one-way.
Why FairPlay compatible songs wont play in iTunes
RealPlayer is using a trick. It does not use the whole FairPlay system, but only creates a FairPlay compatible file. It encrypts the song with a random key and places the file on the iPod and the key in the iPod key repository. Nothing more.
The main problem is the key. Even if you manage to get the song out of the iPod and into iTunes, iTunes does not know the key and iTunes wont let you transfer the key from the iPod back to iTunes. Also, the key is not known in Apples database, so you wont get it when you authorize your computer. The only one who knows the key is the iPod, so it will only play on the iPod. Basically, iTunes will treat the RealPlayer files as a files somebody else bought. Files you are not authorized to play.
How FairPlay works
Each song you buy from the iTMS is encrypted using a random key. The song can only be played if the key is known. Apple has a database of all the songs you purchased and all the keys that belong to these songs.
Each computer that iTunes is installed on has a unique id, the GUID. These IDs are essential to make a distinction between two different computers. Each time you authorize a computer it sends the GUID to Apple which stores it in its database. When you de-authorize a computer it will remove the GUID from its database. This way Apple can track how many computers you authorized.
In addition, when you authorize a computer, iTunes will also receive a list of all the keys are needed to play the songs you bought. These keys are stored in its local key repository located somewhere on the hard drive. When you de-authorize the computer it will remove the keys.
So, an authorized computer is registered using its GUID in the Apple database, and all the keys it should need are located on the hard drive of the computer.
Now for a moment assume I have a copy of a song a friend of mine bought. When I try to play this song on my computer, iTunes will try to locate the key it needs. Unfortunately that key doesnt exist on my computer, so I am not able to play it.
The iPod works a bit different. Just like your computer, it also contains a key repository. Each time you transfer a protected song onto your iPod it will copy the key from the iTunes key repository to the iPod key repository. Remember, this one-way. iTunes wont let you copy the key from the iPod back into the iTunes key repository.
The reason why these key transfers are one-way is easy to explain using an example. Once again a friend of mine bought a song on the iTMS. This time he placed it on his iPod. If the key transfer was two-way, I could simply connect his iPod to my computer and copy the key onto my computer. From then on I would be able to play his file without even having to authorize my computer. So, in order for FairPlay DRM to work properly the key transfers must be one-way.
Why FairPlay compatible songs wont play in iTunes
RealPlayer is using a trick. It does not use the whole FairPlay system, but only creates a FairPlay compatible file. It encrypts the song with a random key and places the file on the iPod and the key in the iPod key repository. Nothing more.
The main problem is the key. Even if you manage to get the song out of the iPod and into iTunes, iTunes does not know the key and iTunes wont let you transfer the key from the iPod back to iTunes. Also, the key is not known in Apples database, so you wont get it when you authorize your computer. The only one who knows the key is the iPod, so it will only play on the iPod. Basically, iTunes will treat the RealPlayer files as a files somebody else bought. Files you are not authorized to play.
Actually, reverse-engineering isn't dirty or underhand. It's common business practice that everybody uses, even Apple.
Take for example Samba. Samba is part of Mac OS X and lets you talk to Microsoft file servers. Without reverse-engineering Samba wouldn't exist.
Take for example AppleWorks. AppleWorks contains a Word conversion filter created by Dataviz. Dataviz used reverse-engineering to find out how the Word file format looks like.
Take for example GimpPrint, part of Mac OS X. GimpPrint contain hundreds of printer drivers. Most of these drivers were reverse engineered.
Or am I completely missing your point and are you saying that when Apple uses software based on reverse-engineering it is okay, but when others do it with Apple products it is bad?
Renny Ren said:
I think the Real situation is actually the other way around - it's more like Sony making their PS/2 games also playable on an Xbox.
However, there still are differences - Real are a software and services company. In the analogy above they would be a games company trying to make their games playable on as many consoles as possible. And Apple would be a console & game maker - though unlike the game market model, Apple try and make money from the console, and sell the games cheaply to drive hardware sales.
Hence if Apple is financially affected at all by Real's announcement, it should be positively - more hardware sold. But it does mean Apple would have a little less control over the direction it's hardware takes.
Key Query
Could a key that Real uses to place songs on an iPod ever duplicate a key that Apple used, and if so would this cause a problem ?
niels said:
Could a key that Real uses to place songs on an iPod ever duplicate a key that Apple used, and if so would this cause a problem ?
Vienna: A duplicate key would not cause any problems. But if Real did not do their job right there might be something else. Whether or not this will cause a problem is not known yet because exactly how Harmony transforms the file is not known. Unless proven otherwise I would not worry about this.
In my earlier explanations I omitted a lot of details. For example, when I said that Apple generates a random key and encrypts the AAC stream with it I was simplifying it a bit. In reality it is a bit more complex.
In the remaining text I will need to make a distinction between songs and files. I will use song for a piece of music for sale on iTMS and file for the actual file that is sent by the iTMS to one individual user. So two users can buy the same song, but they will receive two different files.
Each file based on the same song is encrypted with the same key. When you buy Song A from the iTMS it is encrypted with the same key as when I buy Song A from the iTMS. When another person buys again the same song, once again it is encrypted with the same key.
Song B uses a different key. Song C uses another different key, etc.
Besides the encrypted AAC stream, the file also contains the key that is used to encrypt the AAC stream. The trick is, the key is encrypted with a so called Userkey. It is the Userkey that varies for each individual file and that is randomly generated by Apple and stored in the database. The Userkey gets transferred to iTunes key repository when you authorize a computer and the Userkey gets transferred to the iPod key repository when you copy a protected file on it.
So while each file of the same song is encrypted with the same key and that key is stored in the file itself, you can only decrypt that key and the AAC stream if you know the Userkey.
Now the potential problem. To retrieve the Userkey from the key repository you need to know one very important thing: the Keyid. The Keyid is the identifier of the key in the repository and is also stored in the file. Basically, the Keyid determines for which file you want to retrieve the Userkey. Usually this is no problem, because Apple makes sure that each file you buy from iTMS has a unique Keyid.
If somehow Harmony would create a file with the same Keyid as a file bought from the iTMS you would have two files with the same Keyid, but with different Userkeys. That is a problem because now the player would not know which Userkey it would need to play each file.
Now before everybody gets worried. This all highly theoretical and depends on Real making a big mistake. I doubt their engineers forgot to take this into account, so there is most likely no problem at all.
In my earlier explanations I omitted a lot of details. For example, when I said that Apple generates a random key and encrypts the AAC stream with it I was simplifying it a bit. In reality it is a bit more complex.
In the remaining text I will need to make a distinction between songs and files. I will use song for a piece of music for sale on iTMS and file for the actual file that is sent by the iTMS to one individual user. So two users can buy the same song, but they will receive two different files.
Each file based on the same song is encrypted with the same key. When you buy Song A from the iTMS it is encrypted with the same key as when I buy Song A from the iTMS. When another person buys again the same song, once again it is encrypted with the same key.
Song B uses a different key. Song C uses another different key, etc.
Besides the encrypted AAC stream, the file also contains the key that is used to encrypt the AAC stream. The trick is, the key is encrypted with a so called Userkey. It is the Userkey that varies for each individual file and that is randomly generated by Apple and stored in the database. The Userkey gets transferred to iTunes key repository when you authorize a computer and the Userkey gets transferred to the iPod key repository when you copy a protected file on it.
So while each file of the same song is encrypted with the same key and that key is stored in the file itself, you can only decrypt that key and the AAC stream if you know the Userkey.
Now the potential problem. To retrieve the Userkey from the key repository you need to know one very important thing: the Keyid. The Keyid is the identifier of the key in the repository and is also stored in the file. Basically, the Keyid determines for which file you want to retrieve the Userkey. Usually this is no problem, because Apple makes sure that each file you buy from iTMS has a unique Keyid.
If somehow Harmony would create a file with the same Keyid as a file bought from the iTMS you would have two files with the same Keyid, but with different Userkeys. That is a problem because now the player would not know which Userkey it would need to play each file.
Now before everybody gets worried. This all highly theoretical and depends on Real making a big mistake. I doubt their engineers forgot to take this into account, so there is most likely no problem at all.
niels
So, niels, do you work for Real or something? You seem to have a very informed and detailed grasp on this situation. That'd be funny, if Real sent one of their reverse-engineering chronies onto the Mac forums to calm the Apple crowd down. If so, you've done a decent job of it, but I still think the fellas over at Real can expect some litigation paperwork in the mail. Not that it matters anyway, because I just don't see the Real music store or any other online music distrubutor giving the iTMS any serious or threatening competition for market share. This is a minor problem for Apple, like being buzzed by an insect. Annoying none-the-less, and I'd imagine they'll swat the pest pretty soon here.
-Joe
So, niels, do you work for Real or something? You seem to have a very informed and detailed grasp on this situation. That'd be funny, if Real sent one of their reverse-engineering chronies onto the Mac forums to calm the Apple crowd down. If so, you've done a decent job of it, but I still think the fellas over at Real can expect some litigation paperwork in the mail. Not that it matters anyway, because I just don't see the Real music store or any other online music distrubutor giving the iTMS any serious or threatening competition for market share. This is a minor problem for Apple, like being buzzed by an insect. Annoying none-the-less, and I'd imagine they'll swat the pest pretty soon here.
-Joe
It's more likely that niels has just read the same 6 months old source code that Real probably has read than that he works for Real.
JoePike: You can put your tin foil hat back in the closet I'm not working for Real. In fact, I hardly use their software and the only time I talked to somebody from Real was with Karl Lillevold about a strange bug in their codecs.
SandyL is right. I'm just a geek with too much free time. Everything I know about FairPlay is from comments made by Jon Johansen, the VideoLan source code, DeDRMS source code, FairKeys source code, PlayFair source code and phpTunes source code.
I'm not working for Real. In fact, I hardly use their software and the only time I talked to somebody from Real was with Karl Lillevold about a strange bug in their codecs.SandyL is right. I'm just a geek with too much free time. Everything I know about FairPlay is from comments made by Jon Johansen, the VideoLan source code, DeDRMS source code, FairKeys source code, PlayFair source code and phpTunes source code.
I was mostly just joking anyway. I assumed it to be something like you described, "too much free time". But, looking at the credentials you listed, it does look like you've put some hours into studying or even writing DRM code for one reason or another, so I thank you for your informed insights.
Also, speaking to an earlier point about the difference in bitrates between the iTMS and Real's online music shop, I think 192 does give Real somewhat of a leveraging point to get folks to use their service instead of Apple. The quality of 128 just isn't good enough for some of us, and lossless is probably overkill to an equivalent extent, due to size (bring on the 60 GB drives!). If Apple does decide to do nothing about this whole ringamaroo, legally speaking anyway, I hope this will at least serve to motivate them to bump up the bitrates on iTunes downloads. At that point there would be absolutely no sane reason for anyone to use Real instead of Apple for buying online music. Well, maybe if they happen to work for Real. The headache would start when deciding what to do with all the fine customers who downloaded songs before the changeover, who now want that same song at 192. (sigh.) It's always something.
-Joe
Also, speaking to an earlier point about the difference in bitrates between the iTMS and Real's online music shop, I think 192 does give Real somewhat of a leveraging point to get folks to use their service instead of Apple. The quality of 128 just isn't good enough for some of us, and lossless is probably overkill to an equivalent extent, due to size (bring on the 60 GB drives!). If Apple does decide to do nothing about this whole ringamaroo, legally speaking anyway, I hope this will at least serve to motivate them to bump up the bitrates on iTunes downloads. At that point there would be absolutely no sane reason for anyone to use Real instead of Apple for buying online music. Well, maybe if they happen to work for Real.
The headache would start when deciding what to do with all the fine customers who downloaded songs before the changeover, who now want that same song at 192. (sigh.) It's always something.-Joe
I don't know if anybody has tried this yet, but I just confirmed that it works on my Gen 2 iPod and windows machine!
Real
Yeah, Real sucks - but I don't think that's really the issue. I can respect what they're doing in this case. Basically, they're standing up and saying "Hey pal, if you won't officially give us the nod to let our music play on your device, screw it. We'll get it on your device anyway!" If you think about it, it makes some sense. I mean, any old MP3 will play on an iPod, right? Even a Windows .WAV file will play on it. All these guys want to do is enforce some legal way to sell their songs and keep the record industry execs happy, and still have the results play on the iPod. If Apple really believes what they've been preaching about being the company that "proved it was possible to legally sell digitally encoded music", then you'd think they'd be out there licensing the "FairPlay" DRM left and right to all takers. Otherwise, I think they can expect exactly what Real just did here....
I don't doubt this will generate a lawsuit. I just think the DMCA is utter B.S. and unfortunately, allows something like this to go to court. In a fair world, this case would get thrown out. Jobs can try his best to make it difficult to get legal music to play on his player (when it comes from anyone but Apple), but I don't think he should be able to get the *law* on his side to force people to stop trying to do it.
Yeah, Real sucks - but I don't think that's really the issue. I can respect what they're doing in this case. Basically, they're standing up and saying "Hey pal, if you won't officially give us the nod to let our music play on your device, screw it. We'll get it on your device anyway!" If you think about it, it makes some sense. I mean, any old MP3 will play on an iPod, right? Even a Windows .WAV file will play on it. All these guys want to do is enforce some legal way to sell their songs and keep the record industry execs happy, and still have the results play on the iPod. If Apple really believes what they've been preaching about being the company that "proved it was possible to legally sell digitally encoded music", then you'd think they'd be out there licensing the "FairPlay" DRM left and right to all takers. Otherwise, I think they can expect exactly what Real just did here....
I don't doubt this will generate a lawsuit. I just think the DMCA is utter B.S. and unfortunately, allows something like this to go to court. In a fair world, this case would get thrown out. Jobs can try his best to make it difficult to get legal music to play on his player (when it comes from anyone but Apple), but I don't think he should be able to get the *law* on his side to force people to stop trying to do it.
raynegus said: