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What would be great is the complete OS on a password protected Flash chip(s).

Instant on and No virus could touch it! ;):eek::D

They used to have a LOT of the OS in ROM in very old Macs (think Mac Plus and SE 30, maybe into the Mac II). That's (partly) how we could run these old things while booted from a 400K floppy.

Sure it looks good on paper. Problem was that with each OS update, more and more of the "parts" of the OS got updated and since they couldn't replace or re-burn your ROM chips, they wrote in a disk based over-ride for updated calls/functions. Eventually (probably the most so with System 7) there was hardly anything left that was being read from ROM any more. Eventually they scrapped the "OS on a chip" idea and went with an all disk based OS.

(Guess I'm showing just how much of an Old Fart I really am, eh?) :eek:

When high-speed flash memory gets cheap enough they might be able to get back to a chip based OS (that can be easily re-written/updated), but keeping costs down by using the 2 Gig chips in your basic cheap thumb drive isn't going to give you any speed bumps. :)

Someday, I suppose... But not this year.
 
Its patently (pun intended!) obvious why they have done this to me.

Short sightedness, is what makes companies think that saving money is the best thing for shareholders.

Outsourcing is what companies do to save money.

Apple has never been about doing things cheap. They are about quality, quality costs money.

Nobody knows whether, in the long run, quality will win over cheap. However I think that Jobs' (and likely now the rest of the board) thinks it will. I agree with this.

Its about value. Which allows a price to be assessed not on competition, but instead with respect to Quality.

Put down the glass of Kool-aid for a moment.

Who do you think manufactures Apple products?
It isn't Apple.
They outsource the manufacturing of all their products to several companies in China and Taiwan.
Apple hasn't "built" anything for a long time.
The "Made in Cupertino..." has been missing from Apple products for a long time.
It is now "Made in China, Designed in California".
In some cases, like their monitors, they are simply re-packaged products from other manufacturers. Fancy Apple designed housing on the outside, but inside it's still someone else' product.

Apple is all about profits.
Apple's shareholders will run Steve out of town if he didn't produce the profits.
They have to balance build quality with profitability. Trust me... profitability is still the NUMBER ONE goal of any company... including Apple.

Apple's build quality is subjective.
The iPhone 3G is a prime example of poor build quality. Fit and finish was, and to some extent still is, very sloppy.
 
Ibm

People making the "IBM was a disaster" argument are forgetting that when PowerPC came around, it was the hottest architecture on the block for many years. Everyone just remembers the mobile G5 fiasco, when we were stuck with mobile G4s for eons. PowerPC had fluctuated between competitive to superior to the Intel platform up until then.

Apple just wants some special chips that work how they want them to, that aren't available otherwise. Intel isn't going anywhere on the Mac platform.
 
Your all way off - You won't believe a word of it but here goes anyway....

1) Apple is planning the practical implementation of a revolutionary theoretical technology discovery of inconceivable magnitude. So shocking is this new branch of technology that they literally have no alternative but to implement themselves and take drastic measures to protect it.

2) Unibody enclosures are part of the plan. The new 'technology' will be something akin to 'hot-glass-shatter-able-resin' poured into an unbelievably intricate sculptured unibody enclosures in such a manner that it can NEVER ever be accessed directly again without it's total and utter destruction.

4) The 2011 Macbook Pro will have an Apple designed PURELY optical based main-board (if you can still call it that). It will put them about 20 years ahead of every conventional computing platform in the world.

Think V2 rockets in the age of propellors.

5) The 2012 iTouch platforms, iMacs and Pro's will all be unibody and optical.

I will just add that they will burn about $20 billion creating the new fabrication plants - that so called 'rainy day' fund!.
 
yeah

Your all way off - You won't believe a word of it but here goes anyway....

2) Unibody enclosures are part of the plan. The new 'technology' will be something akin to 'hot-glass-shatter-able-resin' poured into an unbelievably intricate sculptured unibody enclosures in such a manner that it can NEVER ever be accessed directly again without it's total and utter destruction.

Sounds pretty much like the iPhone already.
 
This is purely speculative, but maybe Apple is making a game console given the success of gaming on iPod Touch / iPhone. There is clearly a market for it or they wouldn't be doing it.

According to http://www.gamertell.com/gaming/comment/game-industry-rakes-in-more-than-20-billion-in-2008/ "computer, video game and peripheral sales added up to $21 billion in 2008 with entertainment software comprising up to $11.7 billion of that. That’s a jump of more than 23 percent from 2007" and "Software sales on consoles amounted to $8.9 billion, selling 189 million units. PC games sold $701 million worth, moving 29.1 million units and portables earned an impressive $2.1 billion by selling 79.5 million units."

It's not outside the realm of possibility that Apple might be interested in, or even planning to, enter the gaming market in a more serious way, be it on a game console or a computer, or a handheld device (besides its current offerings). Clearly there is a lot of money to be made, and Apple might want a piece of that pie. After all, they dropped the "Computer" from "Apple Computer, Inc." a couple of years ago and have been moving more and more into the consumer electronics / entertainment industries... iTunes store... AppleTV, iPhone/iPod Touch, etc. Now we see Apple buying up semiconductor/CPU companies, bringing in talent from AMD/ATI (specifically focused on graphics cards/GPUs). It wouldn't make sense for them to do this from Intel since they get their CPUs and some other components from Intel. Damaging that relationship would be self-destructive. If AMD were to cut off supplying GPUs to Apple, it would hurt AMD's own bottom line, and Apple would simply go to nVidia more than they already do. Clearly Apple is interested in getting into the living room (Apple TV) and in your pocket (iPod). So why not further that with a game console?

I don't think it hurts for us to have an open mind.

UPDATE: Apple has hired away an "Microsoft Xbox Strategy and Marketing Executive" per: https://www.macrumors.com/2009/04/30/microsoft-xbox-strategy-and-marketing-executive-to-join-apple/ and http://www.appleinsider.com/article...oss_mac_os_x_10_5_7_999_macbook_air_deal.html

maybe the game console thing isn't so far off the mark afterall.
 
pippin 2

This is purely speculative, but maybe Apple is making a game console given the success of gaming on iPod Touch / iPhone. There is clearly a market for it or they wouldn't be doing it.

If they were to try a game console again it would have to be something pretty different than what is out there already. They're not going to compete directly with Xbox and PS3.

I could see adding games to Apple TV and expanding the iPhone Remote application to work as a combination touch screen/inertial controller.
 
If they go with different hardware components than everyone else, they'll end up way behind as usual.

You're assuming that they're trying to duplicate something like an Intel Core 2 Duo CPU, and not trying to do something else (aka "different").

Personally, I very much doubt that Apple's looking to re-invent stuff that's already being done well by existing manufacturers (eg, Intel). Trying to complete with someone else's strength isn't generally a good stragety (its much smarter to use Displacement Theory rather than Overmatch Theory).

However, I will caveat this to say that if there's something they want but can't get (or is highly expensive), I'd not be surprised if Apple designs their own alternative. A hypothetical example could be an 'unobtanium' like a Firewire 3200 controller chip.


It just sounds super expensive to me to do it in house. Secrecy is one thing, paranoia another.

My understanding is that they bought into a development house, not a production house. As such, the move allows them to control their own fate at their own schedule ... with the side benefit of not having everyone else in the world necessarily knowing everything about it. This translates into a development timeline advantage in the marketplace EVEN IF Apple chooses to subsequently license their 'better mousetrap' chip to others to also use.

It's a move way beyond secrecy ... it's a move to further enhance differentiation against competitor offerings. One of the most important strategic moves a company can make.

I suspect that this differentiation is simply one more dimension of many (and a good one at that)...

Actually, this is not new...

I don't remember when they appeared, or on which Apple computers: Apple ][, Apple ///, or early Macs. But, Apple hardware has had proprietary ASICs (Application Specific Integrated Circuts) for years.

...and this is another dimension, said very well here:

...the trick to making electronics cheap is to cut the chip count - this save manufacturing costs, improves reliability and cuts power consumption. Also allows you to reduce the size which is a big issue for Steve. If by designing their own chips Apple can cut the chip count in the device the savings in chip count would probably more than offset the increased cost of the individual chip. If it makes the device thinner and gives it better battery life it makes it cooler
Makes perfect sense to me

These moves do all this, plus those unique hardware components may also play some factor ... even if its just as a 'Sword of Damocles' ... as a control influence in the Clone/Hackintosh game.

Personally, I'd suspect that a "whatever it is" chip will play a role that is more central than merely being something that is checked for just once at boot-up - - instead, it will be something that will be integral to the core performance of the system.

I'd say that one idea could be that the basic idea is that an unauthorized clone/hack might be able to still run, but running it on "Authorized" systems would get a big performance boost such that people will choose to not bother to play in that fashion. The best way to defeat an enemy is to convince him that he doesn't even want to fight.


-hh
 
I for one welcome power and performance optimized chips for Apple's mobile devices. I don't want them to stray too far from the x86/64 + GPU world though for their desktop computers.
 
Sometimews I wonder if people are suffering from delusions of grandeur. Its fun to speculate, but a lot of things are just out of this world

First and foremost, Apple does very little of their own production now. Do you know who manufactures your iPhone and iTouch mainboards? Or those motherboards on your computers? Surprise surprise, the same guys who manufacture stuff for the XBOX mainboards, other motherboard companies, Nvidia graphics mainboards, etc. all in factories in China.

Or those LCD screens? Taken from companies like LG, Samsung, etc. who do the acutal panel design and all that, then sell panels out to companies. Very little of Apple's hardware is actually made by themselves - sure, they do a lot of the INTEGRATION, but integration design and acutal design of components is different.

Second, all the talk about Apple designing their own CPU or GPU - first off, if you design your own CPU, it won't be x86 unless Intel gives you the license (they won't) and if you fight head on against Intel, prepare to lose. If you know about the industry, you'll know that Intel is a giant with a TON of R&D and fab know how - they have tons of projects that no one hears about that never come to the light of day, but are used to advance their knowledge for the next generation.

GPUs are another beast - ATI and Nvidia have been at it for over a decade now, and no one has come up with a legitimate 3rd party competitor ever. It's simply because they've got too much know how and experience that any comeptitor getting into it is at an automatic huge disadvantage, and thats not counting the fact that Intel has its own IGP and soon discrete card competition.

Also, if Apple leaves the x86 field, kiss good bye to Windows and Boot Camp and a large reason why people even switched in the first place. Unless Apple is looking to abandon the computer line and focus solely on iPods and iPhones (then again, their latest lineups seem to suggest that :mad:), it's going to be in a world of hurt from shareholders.

I know its fun to speculate, but seriously, if you have a background in this industry, a lot of comments are just out of this world. You can't just suddenly decide to do something in this field and do all the R&D invovled (especially if you keep it in house, and do it independent of everyone else) and expect something new within even 5 years. Do you know how far ahead that Intel and AMD and ATI and Nvidia plan their CPUs/GPUs? In the ball park of 5 years ahead of time, they outline the requirements - 3 years ahead, the specs are already finalized. Intel over a year ago already debuted 6 core 32nm processors - those won't be available until early 2010, by which the end of 2010, the next gen microarchitecture (already laid out since 2006) will be in production.

So again, all this talk of Apple doing differentiation - maybe on the small scale, sure, but don't expect anything *big* on the industry-shattering scale.
 
100%

This is it 100% made in the USA Apple products. Proudly American products, made by Americans and, made in the USA. Forget the Japanese technology becomes obsolete in Japan before they will arrive in the USA. Another new trend also that Europe is getting it first now than us. Americans pays premium just by getting it first. Apple wants us to embrace their product, technology wise and design wise. We deserve it first because it is our product and we are good consumers.
 
This is it 100% made in the USA Apple products. Proudly American products, made by Americans and, made in the USA. Forget the Japanese technology becomes obsolete in Japan before they will arrive in the USA. Another new trend also that Europe is getting it first now than us. Americans pays premium just by getting it first. Apple wants us to embrace their product, technology wise and design wise. We deserve it first because it is our product and we are good consumers.

LOL, do you remember:

http://www.apple.com/hotnews/ipodreport/

Report on iPod Manufacturing

August 17, 2006

Like many of you, we were concerned by reports in the press a few weeks ago alleging poor working and living conditions at a manufacturing facility in China where iPods are assembled.
 
And what is wrong with China, majority of things we used these days are being made in China. :rolleyes:
 
MAC PC chips to permit OS X to run on PCs carrying its CPU's???????

:eek: FOR A LAP OF A SECOND I WONDERED THAT APPLE MAY RELEASE ITS BRAND OF CPU'S TO BE USED ON MAC-PCs THAT WILL BE DESTINATED TO OTHER BRANDS TO KILL WINDOWS.

THIS WAY APPLE WILL MAKE MONEY BY SELLING LICENSES OF OS X AND YET CHIPS THAT WILL PERMIT IT TO BE RUN WITHOUT VIOLATING ANY PROPRIETARY LAW INFRINGEMENT AND YET KICKING INTEL AND AMD FAR AWAY FROM MARKET.

IF THIS COMES TO HAPPEN, APPLE WILL END UP WITH A MONOPOLY EVEN BIGGER THAN MICROSOFT.

I WISH THAT THE OS X COULD BE LICENSED EVEN FOR A MORE EXPENSIVE PRICE TO COMPENSATE THE MACS THAT WOULD NOT BE SOLD FOR THIS REASON, BUT IF APPLE COMES TO RELEASE CHIPS THAT WILL PERMIT OTHER COMPUTER BUILDERS TO BUILD A LEGAL MAC-PC WITH ITS PROPER CHIPS AND OS X INSTALLED ON, APPLE WILL SWALLOW THE MARKET IN A FRACTION OF TIME!
:apple:
 
:eek:FOR A LAP OF A SECOND I WONDERED THAT APPLE MAY RELEASE ITS BRAND OF CPU'S TO BE USED ON MAC-PCs THAT WILL BE DESTINATED TO OTHER BRANDS TO KILL WINDOWS.

THIS WAY APPLE WILL MAKE MONEY BY SELLING LICENSES OF OS X AND YET CHIPS THAT WILL PERMIT IT TO BE RUN WITHOUT VIOLATING ANY PROPRIETARY LAW INFRINGEMENT AND YET KICKING INTEL AND AMD FAR AWAY FROM MARKET.

This is a remote possibility. First, CPU design is a huge undertaking, highly complex and expensive. Apple dumped PowerPC for this very reason; off-the-shelf industry-standard parts made system development easier and cheaper, and resulted in higher margins on Apple products. There's no way Apple would have the resources to take on Intel in the CPU market. It would have even less chance of success now than it did a few years ago.

Second, I don't know what you mean by "Mac-PCs" but Apple would need Intel's agreement to market a CPU that worked in tandem with Intel chipsets. And I don't think Intel would look kindly on Apple becoming a competitor to them in the CPU business.
 
:eek: THIS WAY APPLE WILL MAKE MONEY BY SELLING LICENSES OF OS X AND YET CHIPS THAT WILL PERMIT IT TO BE RUN WITHOUT VIOLATING ANY PROPRIETARY LAW INFRINGEMENT AND YET KICKING INTEL AND AMD FAR AWAY FROM MARKET.

IF THIS COMES TO HAPPEN, APPLE WILL END UP WITH A MONOPOLY EVEN BIGGER THAN MICROSOFT.

I WISH THAT THE OS X COULD BE LICENSED EVEN FOR A MORE EXPENSIVE PRICE TO COMPENSATE THE MACS THAT WOULD NOT BE SOLD FOR THIS REASON, BUT IF APPLE COMES TO RELEASE CHIPS THAT WILL PERMIT OTHER COMPUTER BUILDERS TO BUILD A LEGAL MAC-PC WITH ITS PROPER CHIPS AND OS X INSTALLED ON, APPLE WILL SWALLOW THE MARKET IN A FRACTION OF TIME!
:apple:

As wonderful as OS X is at the things it does, it does NOT do everything that would need to exist for OS X to even begin to take over Windows worldwide.

I love and use OS X, but it just doesn't do (and doesn't try to do) ALLLLLL the crap that Windows does. Windows does a ton of stuff, poorly, but it does it. OS X is very powerful and capable, but doesn't even try to replicate all that Windows does and I hope they never do.

I think Apple should continue to stay a Premium, legitimate alternative OS and never try to be the One True OS that runs the world.
 
Put down the glass of Kool-aid for a moment.

Who do you think manufactures Apple products?
It isn't Apple.
They outsource the manufacturing of all their products to several companies in China and Taiwan.
Apple hasn't "built" anything for a long time.
The "Made in Cupertino..." has been missing from Apple products for a long time.
It is now "Made in China, Designed in California".
In some cases, like their monitors, they are simply re-packaged products from other manufacturers. Fancy Apple designed housing on the outside, but inside it's still someone else' product.

Apple is all about profits.
Apple's shareholders will run Steve out of town if he didn't produce the profits.
They have to balance build quality with profitability. Trust me... profitability is still the NUMBER ONE goal of any company... including Apple.

Apple's build quality is subjective.
The iPhone 3G is a prime example of poor build quality. Fit and finish was, and to some extent still is, very sloppy.
What the heck is poor build quality, my iphone 3g is still kicking with no issues. Meanwhile the iphone 3g with poor build qualtity issues is kicking the competition in satisfaction rates.
 
What the heck is poor build quality, my iphone 3g is still kicking with no issues. Meanwhile the iphone 3g with poor build qualtity issues is kicking the competition in satisfaction rates.
Guess you were one of the lucky ones to get a 3G iPhone that didn't crack under normal use or leak light from the sides of the bezel.
 
I've just read through this thread and the related one from a couple of days earlier (Apple Personnel Moves: Former AMD Chip Executive Hired, Papermaster Finally Begins Work).

It seems to me that we're all looking for justifications for Apple's actions that involve current issues. Most suggestions revolve around Hackintosh/secrecy/iPhone ripoffs/power consumption etc. They're all concerns, sure, but none of them are about looking ahead, to where the puck is going to be.

Almost certainly Apple want more control and better design over the chips in their mobile devices - iPhone, tablet, whatever. That category is growing and developing and Apple want to own it and dominate it, and the quality of the designers they've employed promises great improvements in these products. However, I'm going to suggest that this is only half their reason for bringing chip design in-house. Sticking my neck out, I reason that the other half is embedded devices.

Embedded devices are all around us and they are, at the moment, uniformly crap. The electronics in my car, the menus on my plasma TV and the electronics on my air conditioner are poorly designed, sometimes buggy and never pretty. The embedded electronics industry is crying out for the Apple touch of style and reliability.

We're now moving into the era where we are ready for our personal machines to be properly networked and to share our personal data. The air conditioner needs to know what time we'll be home so it can cool the house down in advance. The plasma tv wants to be able to play the second half of the podcast we half-watched at work during our lunch-break on our iPhone. And our car wants to integrate our music playlist, incoming phone calls and our list of contacts into its onboard GPS nav/audio system.

At the moment this is still a pipe dream. Most people consider themselves lucky if their car stereo has a 3.5mm input jack, and going from watching something on your iPod to finishing watching it on your plasma is hopeless. All the ways that have been tried to date are poor.

We all know why this computing development is important - the first company to really make everything in our life seamless will dominate the computing industry for years to come. The question is how should a company go about it?

Many companies have tried the obvious - consumer entertainment electronics. Windows media centre PC's, Apple TV, Sony products - all have been failures. Their crucial fault is that they aren't truly integrated. Not really, not totally. You still have to play with a Sony TV that can't talk to the Apple TV box, which can't talk to the Yamaha amplifier. And so-on. Three remotes are still required. The wife is still confused.

Not until one company makes the software that drives all the devices in the cabinet will it become truly seamless, but getting to that position seems impossible. Sony, Panasonic, LG or Samsung aren't going to invite Apple to design the systems that run their products - they see Apple as a potential competitor and doing so would reduce them to contract hardware manufacturers for Apple. Yet neither are they capable of taking over the computer side of the equation. A stand-off ensues and the result is that we all suffer from incompatible devices.

So what is Apple to do if it ultimately wants to be the dominant designer of computing across all the devices in our lives? Well, they could start with the car.

There is a rumour doing the rounds that Apple is designing a car electronics system for Mercedes. I think this makes a lot of sense. If Apple start offering embedded control systems to car manufacturers it would be the first step in expanding the iPod/iPhone lines into a true Apple ecosystem that involves all facets of your life.

Think about it: drop your iPhone into the slot on the dash and your car plays your music, puts the calls through the audio system and offers your list of contacts on the GPS nav screen. Seamlessly. Add the Apple design touch for the other functions (climate control, audio, etc.) and you'd have a winner.

For people without any Apple products the control system would still be nicer and cleaner than the abominations that most car companies currently provide. Add an iPod and they then get flawless audio integration. Buy an iPhone and the car suddenly becomes a seamless extension of your computing life. Suddenly, people who aren't Apple users but have a new car have a compelling reason to buy an Apple mobile computing product.

The car systems would encourage iPhone uptake like iTunes encouraged iPod buying. It's all about extending the eco-system and making people really want to buy-in to the Apple universe of devices.

There are many other areas of embedded-computing that Apple can and no doubt will pursue but I think cars would likely be the starting point. They're high-value, so the systems will likely return a profit in and of themselves. They're ubiquitous, so everyone will be exposed to the new offering. And we spend a lot of time in them, so we want them to work really well for us.

If Apple can get a stronghold in embedded systems in cars, and they continue to build the strength in mobile computing that is the iPhone then they might develop a linkage between the two that would allow them to dominate for decades. Apple's embedded and mobile systems could become as ubiquitous in our lives as Windows was in the 80's, 90's and early 2000's.

If Jobs is looking into the future and trying to own the world of distributed computing then he needs custom chips with low power consumption as well as great software teams. Apple already had the latter and they've been busy buying the former.
 
Great post Stuart in OZ. Well reasoned and plausible. Chip design is expensive and the only way to recoup these costs is to branch out and deliver chips to many areas where profitability is probable.
 
Thanks nuckinfutz. :)

There were three posts in the other thread I mentioned. All of them make good points:

It's really something when the finest minds in the rumor mill can't figure out where Apple is going with "the next big thing," and you know they have something being brewed up as we speak.

The Mac 128K was a total departure from where the micro-computer market was headed in 1984. The iTunes site was a totally stealth product when it came out. No one could have guessed what a juggernaut it became, and how powerfully it wedded customers to Apple products. Without fanfare, iTunes became the most common non-Microsoft program to reside in a Microsoft OS computer.

It feels to me like we are living in the "last days" time of computers as we once knew them to be. (Now I know that to be a hyperbole, however, just how much of one it may be is exciting to ponder)

So, when you start reading their exec profiles it's interesting that the "Senior Vice President of Mac Hardware Engineering" reports to Tim Cook, while the "Senior Vice President of Devices Hardware Engineering" reports to Steve Jobs.

If there is one thing that stands out to me about all this is that Steve runs the special projects. All other mature and refined product lines that are not undergoing any significant advancements that require significant redesign and engineering fall under the Tim.

You can bet whoever reports to Steve is working on Apple's more interesting projects. ;)
 
Apple clearly realizes that the floodgates to mobile computer are opening up and that even the most enthusiastic sales of laptops will be dwarfed by mobile devices that fit in your pocket.

There are plenty of technologies causing this sea change from larger "totable" devices to your small portable devices.

1. Great power in a low power envelope. From ARM to Atom to PowerVR and Tegra. The amount of processing power available at low wattage is astounding.

2. Ubiquitious networking. Wifi is everywhere! Many people don't need an iPhone because they're never too far away from a wifi hotspot.

3. Data portability- Let's be honest we as consumers have put up with crap. How many times have you had to input new numbers into a cell phone in your life? We all want our most relevant data at our fingertips.

4. Cloud computing- I grow very weary of this overhyped term but the ability to leverage processing backend from the cloud is very important and will continue to grow in scope and influence.

In summation:

The PC wars are over. It doesn't matter really if you have a Mac or a Windows PC or Linux the new lucrative battlefield is this "power in your pocket" era.

Apple is smartly and rightly investing big into this area and if a pundit is telling you it's risky...well it's risky to leave your home everyday. Apple has the momentum and knows how to mitigate risk.
 
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