How about when they charge like $1.95 per beverage and thats on each cup you get and not a one time unlimited refil fee.
So you get unlimited food for like $10 but the soda's cost you like $6
Yes! Fail fail fail... Good point, my friend.
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Received interesting letter from AT&T for using 20+ GB / month of data
- Thread starter Snide
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Yes! Fail fail fail... Good point, my friend.
Sorry. In Canada we have free tethering up to our GB limit per month included with our plans. I just assumed AT&T had the same policy.
Your analogy is also flawed. I think a buffet is a better analogy: I pay for access to X amount of food. I can consume that food at whatever rate I choose.
Your car analogy doesn't work because the dealer doesn't set the speed limits. The carrier is like the dealership. And the dealership doesn't decide how you use your car.
Seems to me that if someone pays for a certain amount of data per month (or "unlimited" data) they have the right to consume their data however and at whatever rate they see fit.
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Most carriers outside the US do the same.
You have a set amount of data, it shouldnt matter how you use it or if you tether it to your laptop or whatever. It doesnt and shouldnt make any difference to the carrier wether you're watching youtube on your cellphone or checking emails on your laptop.
But the good old USA its still far behind when you compare it with other international wireless companies.
Seems like all domestic providers have an agreement between them and say we will all charge this much for texts or data, or not allow free tethering and this way they wont have any other choice but pay for it wether thats paying AT&T or Verizon.
Yes, and it seems very unfair. Data isn't like a house or a car. Rather, it's the electricity in the house and the gas in the car. Once you pay for it you SHOULD be able to use it in whatever way and at whatever rate you like. To believe otherwise is to rationalize being ripped off by your carrier.
Alright...the buffet analogy...
Sure, you do pay for $15.99 for a buffet...but does that give you the right to stay there all day long and eat all day long? At one point, they would kick you out. If you dont believe me...i've seen some real hard stuff go down in an Hometown Buffet before...and in Vegas...This one woman was asked to leave because she took the entire tray of lobsters for her table...twice. When they were kicking her out, she screamed at the top of her lungs claiming she paid to eat as much as she wanted to. "its an all you can eat!" it was pretty sad.. (not to draw judgments but for illustrative purposes...she was reminiscent of your typical "wal-mart" fare)
If you pay for the buffet and can 'consume at whatever rate you want'...does that give you the right to take the whole ham hock instead of the slice they serve you?
Suppose in the car analogy...ATT is the government. You pay the government (local or state it doesnt matter..lets assume its "the government") to use their toll roads. As long as you pay the toll on this road, you can drive on it as much as you want, as long as you want, all day if you wanted to, you can "use the road" all you want essentially making it unlimited. It still doesnt give you the right to drive however you want..You can "tether" (see what I did there?
a trailer onto your car if you want but you would have to pay extra on the toll road...Carrying trailers makes your car heavier which puts more stress on the roadworks. Additionally it takes up more space, and it makes traffic behind you move a bit slower. (Driving behind a trailer is miserable ). Doesnt it make sense that the people tethering trailers without paying the appropriate fee for the road are doing something untoward?
Yikes. Electricity in the US is charged by the kWh.
Thats like charging by the kb for data..
Unlimited is unlimited. More so in the data world.
If AT&T can't provide unlimited access, they shouldn't provide it.
Have you ever posted a picture online through AT&T wireless data? If so, you just violated your TOS. Please contact them directly to terminate your service. You are now just as bad as a tetherer who didn't pay the BS $15 fee.
Seriously, get off your high horse. If he wants to use unlimited data, that is his choice. AT&T has the right to terminate his service at any time for any reason. He isn't harming the network obviously, because AT&T has not kicked him off.
If AT&T can't provide unlimited access, they shouldn't provide it.
Have you ever posted a picture online through AT&T wireless data? If so, you just violated your TOS. Please contact them directly to terminate your service. You are now just as bad as a tetherer who didn't pay the BS $15 fee.
Seriously, get off your high horse. If he wants to use unlimited data, that is his choice. AT&T has the right to terminate his service at any time for any reason. He isn't harming the network obviously, because AT&T has not kicked him off.
Alright...the buffet analogy...
Sure, you do pay for $15.99 for a buffet...but does that give you the right to stay there all day long and eat all day long? At one point, they would kick you out. If you dont believe me...i've seen some real hard stuff go down in an Hometown Buffet before...and in Vegas...This one woman was asked to leave because she took the entire tray of lobsters for her table...twice. When they were kicking her out, she screamed at the top of her lungs claiming she paid to eat as much as she wanted to. "its an all you can eat!" it was pretty sad.. (not to draw judgments but for illustrative purposes...she was reminiscent of your typical "wal-mart" fare)
If you pay for the buffet and can 'consume at whatever rate you want'...does that give you the right to take the whole ham hock instead of the slice they serve you?
Suppose in the car analogy...ATT is the government. You pay the government (local or state it doesnt matter..lets assume its "the government") to use their toll roads. As long as you pay the toll on this road, you can drive on it as much as you want, as long as you want, all day if you wanted to, you can "use the road" all you want essentially making it unlimited. It still doesnt give you the right to drive however you want..You can "tether" (see what I did there?
Doesnt it make sense that the people tethering trailers without paying the appropriate fee for the road are doing something untoward?
Note: In Canada we don't pay an arbitrary fee for tethering, so I'm not going to try to rationalize it. I'm going to explain how things are in Canada, and by virtue of that explanation perhaps you will understand how and why you are being unfairly over-charged.
You don't seem to understand what you are contractually paying for. When you sign a contract with a carrier for a dataplan you are buying data. Whether you are on a 500MB, 6GB, or "unlimited" (see the fine print for actual data limit) you are entitled to that amount of data per month.
There is no stipulation on the usage of that data. You paid for X amount of data, and you can use it 1) however you want, and 2) consume it at whatever rate you want. Like the food on your plate, you can eat it as fast or as slow as you like, but your plate won't be refilled until the next month so it's up to the consumer to self-regulate their data usage.
What you are arguing is that by virtue of the fact that tethering makes it easier to consume data it should be penalized. But of course that's a flawed perspective because as we have now established the consumption habits of users is not contractually regulated. By your rationale, iPhone users should pay more than BlackBerry users simply by virtue of the fact that the iPhone makes it easier to consume data thanks to its rich media App Store.
Sorry, but you are merely rationalizing being poached by your carrier. If you think about it logically you'll realize that a data plan is part of a larger contract. The fees to maintain the network are included in the larger contract, but the data plan merely allots a certain amount of data to users per month, who are free to use that data as they choose.
20 GB per month borders on abuse.
If you pay $15 at a buffet where the average person eats 2 plates of food, and you regularly eat $500 of food, what do you think will happen?
Friends like yours are a big part of why unlimited plans are disappearing.
If you pay $15 at a buffet where the average person eats 2 plates of food, and you regularly eat $500 of food, what do you think will happen?
Friends like yours are a big part of why unlimited plans are disappearing.
That's an interesting point.
So if I transmit my text messages from the phone to the computer I am violating the "spirit" of the contract? Because the text message are only to be sent from/to a phone and since the BluePhone Elite came out, I only chat using a computer keyboard...
Your "iPhone only" argument is ridiculous. If it was valid, it would have stand the test of absurd, which it doesn't. If "the data" was to stay in the iPhone, any screenshot done on this iPhone and passed over would be a violation. The data enters from outside and exits outside his iPhone according to the contract. Whatever happens from the iPhone deeper inside is his gdamn business.
Anyway - that's a nice letter. In my country he'd get a court ordeal, not a "pretty please"...
Oh please. Usually people do not eat more than $15, however from time to time a big, fat American comes and eats for $100. Would you ban everyone from eating or just make sure you did a proper calculation beforehand and your "unlimited food for $15 not including beverages (smallprint)" business case is still legitimate even if a small (0.01%, remember) percent of users tries to abuse the service? C'mon, I worked in telco cost assurance and did abusive usage projects, but believe me, as long as it's not at least 1% of the total income, nobody would even care.
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If the carriers can't handle 20GB per month then they shouldn't offer "unlimited" plans. Are you really going to blame the user for fairly exploiting what he or she paid for?
but he is teathering so it is abuse. Unlimited also does not mean unlimited. If you abuse the network they can kick you off.
Personally I wish AT&T would say after so many gigs of data on unlimited plan you are kick off 3G and edge only. Say after 2 gigs you go edge only. Still unlimited. Does not change the contract just remove your burden off of the system.
Yah I still have trouble understanding why AT&T would institute such a ridiculous policy. Tethering is a means of consuming the data you paid for. Even in Canada, where we are constantly poached by our carriers with absurdly unfair pricing models, we have free tethering. Data is data, and the consumption method is irrelevant.
Guys really its a question of ethics.
While 20 gigs is overkill, if a plan is Unlimited but in the small print it says really we can limit you if needs be, then that's AT&Ts fault. We shouldn't just cave and let them not have reasons to upgrade their network...
...BUT...
Is it really fair to fight fire with fire?
Really in the perfect world, AT&T would have the cojones to provide a network that can allow unlimited in the true sense of the word. I like using my unlimited plan, and I'm going to keep it as long as I can (I travel, GPS, Pandora, Netflix via legit routes). So if I go above the magic 5 gig limit rules, nothing wrong on my part. Just because other countries have it worse off than we do in terms of bandwidth, doesn't make it right to level the playing field.
While 20 gigs is overkill, if a plan is Unlimited but in the small print it says really we can limit you if needs be, then that's AT&Ts fault. We shouldn't just cave and let them not have reasons to upgrade their network...
...BUT...
Is it really fair to fight fire with fire?
Really in the perfect world, AT&T would have the cojones to provide a network that can allow unlimited in the true sense of the word. I like using my unlimited plan, and I'm going to keep it as long as I can (I travel, GPS, Pandora, Netflix via legit routes). So if I go above the magic 5 gig limit rules, nothing wrong on my part. Just because other countries have it worse off than we do in terms of bandwidth, doesn't make it right to level the playing field.
There's kind of a difference between that and the iPhone...on the iPhone, it's POSSIBLE to tether (albeit unethical), even without paying that extra money. But you can't hack a buffet to allow you to get a free beverage
I think the best compromise solution is to set a limit on SPEED for "unlimited" accounts. After you go over some soft cap, you'll be stuck with EDGE (or maybe even slower?) for the remainder of the month.
The tap will never be shut off -- there will never be a time when you have to stop and wonder whether downloading this next email message is going to be the thing that pushes you into overages -- therefore it will remain "unlimited" by any rational understanding of the word. It's just that your pipe will become a little narrower, to give others a fair chance to access their share of the bandwidth.
The tap will never be shut off -- there will never be a time when you have to stop and wonder whether downloading this next email message is going to be the thing that pushes you into overages -- therefore it will remain "unlimited" by any rational understanding of the word. It's just that your pipe will become a little narrower, to give others a fair chance to access their share of the bandwidth.
Except nowhere in the contract does it specify that it's against the service rules to have a jailbroken device. And if it was made a part of new contracts... there would be outcries. Especially as there is nothing illegal about the device being jailbroken.
Unless you are leasing the car - then yes, they can set some limits
Incorrect.
http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-ph...less+Customer+Agreement#howCanIUseTheSoftware
Any software provided for your device by AT&T and/or its licensors/suppliers (Apple is a supplier in this context) must not be used in any manner not authorized by that software's License. You must not modify or defeat protective mechanisms within such software. To me, that seems to pretty much cover the situation for jailbreaking.
By continuing to make ongoing use of AT&T's postpaid wireless services, every current postpaid AT&T wireless customer has agreed to be bound by revisions to these terms whenever they are released, regardless of whether or not the revisions were actually present in the original contract at the time they first activated their account. If they didn't want to be bound by any such revised terms, then they would have had to have chosen to cancel their account in the next billing period after such revisions had been announced. But I suspect the revisions policy doesn't really matter in this case, because I suspect this clause was already present in the contract, possibly unnoticed by you, for quite some time now.
But unless AT&T starts actively enforcing the policy, it'll be useless for preventing people from trying to do so anyway.
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Case closed.
You can consume that food at whatever rate you choose, but you cannot share it with others, or load up a to-go carton to take home with you.
Likewise, you cannot share the unlimited AT&T data plan with a laptop or other device. You can consume all the data you want, but ONLY on the device for which the plan is assigned.
This is nothing new... other carriers, Verizon included, make similar exclusions. If you want tethering, you pay extra for it and agree to a cap.
So you're right, the Buffet analogy IS apropos.
I'm all for using as much data as you want without AT&T bugging you about it... as long as you do it within the terms AT&T has set out and you've agreed to.
No, but they do recommend specific care and maintenance intervals, and warn you that certain modifications, actions and behaviors will mean that they will not be responsible if your car breaks down.
And they don't govern speed limits and driving laws because the government already does that. The government built the highway; they overnt he speed and its laws.
But again, the analogy is perfectly accurate, because Apple doesn't prohibit tethering: they built the phone. However, AT&T built the "highway," and they govern its rules.
Your friend is abusing the network, and AT&T would have the right to question his Data Usage only because it is 4 Times their 5GB unlimited plan and not fair to everyone else who connects to WiFi and is mindful of their data usage. I think AT&T needs to have another plan for abusers to the system and charge them $99.99 per month, I bet you would likely see this kinda stuff cease.