Recording feature found on new iPods!

[Arcady]

I don't know why people in here keep saying that a standard stereo 1/8" headphone connector only has two metal sections, or that the tip is not used, but they are wrong.

The tip is the left channel (or the mono channel in a mono connector, which is the one with only two metal sections). The ring section is the one next to the tip, and carries the right channel. The sleeve is the third part, and carries ground for both channels (or the mono channel in a mono connection).

There are 4 conductor 1/8" connectors for audio use, which have a seperate ground for each channel, but the new headphones have a 3 conductor connection, so the extra wire must be for something other than audio out.

The fact that when in use as a mic, the left channel of the headphone works is because a mono mic uses a mono connector, which corresponds to the left (tip) and sleeve (ground).

 

[RandomDeadHead]

Best thing to happen to bootlegs in a long time if the quality is anygood!

You dirty fu*king bootlegger. People who bootleg will cause the demise of free tapeing.

People said the same thing about the minidisc recorders, and what have we now? Collage idoits who think they know everything about tapeing just because they have a $100.00 minidisk deck, and have been to sevral phish shows. These are the same people that sell live "bootlegs" in the parking lots, and jeopardize the future of live tapeing for the people who actualy give a sh*t about the music.

Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK. Nothing aginst Apple at all, but to do a proper recording of this type you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart microphones.
To do a proper recording you need these things:

Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me, I have personaly taped over 150 Grateful Dead concerts over the past 20 years not to mention Phill and friends, and Ratdog shows.


And PS, they are called "Audience recordings" NOT "bootlegs", Bootlegs are Soundboard copy's that are sold in crummy music shops under the counter, where the band dosent recieve any of the profit, they are also illegal. Kinda like copying a M&M cd and then selling the copyies to people for a profit. An audience recording can NOT be bought or sold, it must be given to you, or traded for one that you have.

Calling an Audience recording a "bootleg" is just like calling a Mac a peecee.


Sorry for the rant but the bootleggers MUST DIE!


Oh and by the way, if you or ANYONE on the forums would like to hear what a GOOD audience recording sounds like, just pm me and I will send you one for FREE. Or look at my partial list at:

db.etree.org/darkstar5


and pick one out. I would be MORE than happy to make you a free copy of anything I have.

 

[ericdano]

Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK.

I'd disagree. Minidisc recorders can provide EXCELLENT recordings if one has the proper microphone and places it in a good spot.

...you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart microphones.

Um, thats not true either. I own a Rode NT4 stereo mic, and it's not Walmart quality at all. It sound good via XLR connections or via the mic input on a Minidisc player

To do a proper recording you need these things:
Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me.

Um, no. I just recorded a concert using my Minidisc and Rode mic and it sounded way better than the two Nuemann mics they hung in the house. Maybe bad placement or something, but it was not as detailed nor as balanced as the Minidisc/Rode combo.

You have a point. A "Professional" recording rig will have all those things. But for us "average or slightly above average" people, a recordable iPod would save me time and I would not have to worry about the Minidisc running out during a rehearsal/concert/session or whatever. Yeah, it's not studio quality, but it sounds damn good enough to me. And if Apple could get an iPod with some sort of recording feature that would let me record to AIFF or WAVs and it had good S/N ratios and A/D converters, I'd buy it. Until then, Minidisc works very very well. It is just a pain in the ass to have to play it back to the computer.

 

[supercow]

Perhaps thats why they didn't release a 2.0 for the old ipod... because it doesn't have recording capabilities. Well at least so it seems...
God I wish I had waited a month. Recording was the only other thing I wanted in an Ipod. Grrrr...
Well life is tough, get a helmet.

Alex

 

[bennetsaysargh]

i have it working, and it's kinda cool.

apple would not endorse bootlegging because that is steling music.

i tryed installing 2.0 on my brother's 20GB, and it doesn't work. he's stuck at 1.3

 

[Venkman]

Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
You dirty fu*king bootlegger. People who bootleg will cause the demise of free tapeing.

over the top, i think. i'm sure when he said "bootleg" he meant "taping". like it or not, "bootleg" is a common term for live audience and soundboard recordings, whether they are sold or traded.

People said the same thing about the minidisc recorders, and what have we now? Collage idoits who think they know everything about tapeing just because they have a $100.00 minidisk deck, and have been to sevral phish shows.

so what? people are using minidisc to get into taping and learn more about it. why not? it's cheap, and has great sound quality if you use some half-decent equipment with it.

These are the same people that sell live "bootlegs" in the parking lots, and jeopardize the future of live tapeing for the people who actualy give a sh*t about the music.

how did you figure this out exactly? bootlegs have been sold in stores for years. if you don't like them, don't buy them. how is it "jeopardising the future of live taping"? it's been going on for years, and, stangely enough, people are showing no signs of stopping taping.

Their is NO way Apple will be able to make an iPod that records as clean as a minidisc recorder, and you know what? Minidisc recorders SUCK.

no they don't.

Nothing aginst Apple at all, but to do a proper recording of this type you need a good preamp and at least 2 XLR imputs. I highley doubt that they could fit XLR's on an iPod without makeing it five times bigger, and without them you are limited to cheap wallmart
microphones.

what? i spent $300 on sound professionals microphones with a bass roll-off filter, and they don't need XLR inputs.

To do a proper recording you need these things:

Tascam or sony DAT deck, $2700
Decent preamp, $500 at LEAST
A pair of microphones, $500 each, realistically $1000 each.
Blank DAT tape, $15-20

Without these items your recording will sound like crap trust me

i think you're a snob who's TALKING crap.

you can get some amazing results with minidisc and $200-300 microphones.

And PS, they are called "Audience recordings" NOT "bootlegs", Bootlegs are Soundboard copy's that are sold in crummy music shops under the counter, where the band dosent recieve any of the profit, they are also illegal.

as i said before, the term "bootleg" is commonly used for any sort of unnofficial live recording. get over it.

 

[quantegy]

I agree with Venkman. Snobby is right. There is all kinds of new stuff coming out that is just as good if not better than DAT. DAT is old news. It is so dead. You couldn't get me to use a DAT if you gave it to me. Buying a tape for every show and then having to play it back to get it on your computer. What a waste. I think you will be the only one using a DAT deck in a couple years. And also, those prices seem a little inflated for DAT decks. Especially since you can get used ones for $300-400 because people are going to much more efficient ways of recording. As for new decks go, that Tascam DA-P1, which is probably the best DAT deck out there, is only $1500 new. You sound old and completely oblivously to new technologies. If the iPod can record WAV or AIFF at 16/44.1 then I'm sure it will be way better than MDs. WAY better. I think its cool. Its such a great way to record. And you don't have to have recorded for 20 years to know what to buy and make good recordings. There are all sorts of great taping sites out there to ask questions and learn about different techniques and read reviews on all the newest equipment. One can easily make GREAT recordings with a $1000 rig (mics, preamp and recorder). Its like saying you can't live a happy life unless you make $100,000 a year. F**k you for putting down people that don't have thousands to spend but do know what they are doing, and do have quality equipment and do make excellent recordings.

 

[G4scott]

OK, some here are saying you can't get good audio recording unless you have big, heavy equipment, but what's up with this 24-bit PDA recording stuff that we're hearing about? With digital, I imagine the power and speed of the processor is the major determining factor of the quality of the music. Just plug in a good mic, and it sounds great...

Of course, I don't know that much about recording...

Now, when you use this trick to record, where does it save the files? do you have to be in diagnostic mode? I'm interested to see how this works...

 

[adamberti]

The way the recording is set up makes perfect sense to me. If you're on the road and need to record a voice note - just record through your earphones, or if you're taping a lecture of something, then bring the mic and get a decent recording. But if you really need high quality stereo recording, then you're probably in a situation where you have access to power, so hook up your dock and the stereo recording to the line-out.

I guess all we need now is the firmware and accessories.

One thing I do not understand, (although many things that Apple does are hard to understand) is why they wouldnt release this option now. It would seem to me, if I recall based on old rumors and such (iPods on tuesday - okay next tuesday, maybe the one after, how about one more week guys?) that the iPods were possibly done quite a while ago, they just were waiting for the music store negotiations and stuff to be ready to make one big release. The only info I see against them being ready a while ago is the USB 2.0 functionality being delayed until June, although that could be a switch to Mac scheme.

I could go out on a limb and say Maybe the Record Companies dont want this thing touted as a recording device yet, untill they see how people buy their songs. I think they have a lot of push and pull with Steve right now.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see what happens.

 

[adamberti]

One more thought on a couple of possible features. Somebody wanted their iPod secure, to be able to type in a code to access it or something, if it goes more PDA'ish, how about a voice password, remember OS 9?

And if Apple could release new amazing voice recognition software, you could record those lectures and have them converted to Text files. Maybe you could even watch it show up in the new NoteReader!

But now I'm just wildly speculating

 

[LimeLite]

Don't know if any of you care, and I'm not speculating anything, but I wanted to point out that the only other jack that Apple has that I personally know of that has the the 4 metal sections seperated by 3 plastic ones is the A/V cable that they sent with some of the iBooks to connect it to the TV. I took a picture:

 

[adamberti]

Originally posted by LimeLite
Don't know if any of you care, and I'm not speculating anything, but I wanted to point out that the only other jack that Apple has that I personally know of that has the the 4 metal sections seperated by 3 plastic ones is the A/V cable that they sent with some of the iBooks to connect it to the TV. I took a picture:

Not speculating? I think that is one HUGE speculation that would be pretty cool though, especially if this Generation iPod will be upgraded to Video, however, I highly doubt that. As for the same style connection, any old plug is going to look the same, little bits of plasic separating the different channels. So I wouldnt look TOO deeply into it.

 

[melchior]

Originally posted by adamberti
Not speculating? I think that is one HUGE speculation that would be pretty cool though, especially if this Generation iPod will be upgraded to Video, however, I highly doubt that. As for the same style connection, any old plug is going to look the same, little bits of plasic separating the different channels. So I wouldnt look TOO deeply into it.

it's true there are different possibilities for the extra piece of metal. it is possibly for grounding or possibly for video or possibly for something else.

frankly, if this is for ground, it would be a first for apple. even though i don't like to side with *ahem* video iPod freaks!!!! i would buy the idea of an s-video out rather than a ground.

 

[G4scott]

I don't think the other section is for video. It's for higher quality sound, or for recording. How? I don't know, but video just doesn't seem like a possibility...

 

[Sherman]

Here's the thing, to make the left earphone record, they DO NOT have to add another contact. All they're doing is letting the magnet drive the iPod hardware, instead of the other way around.

And I think the point LimeLite was trying to make is that there's only 2 earphones, but with that cable, there's 3 outputs, indicating stereo line-in. Crazies.

 

[ibookin']

Originally posted by RandomDeadHead
Calling an Audience recording a "bootleg" is just like calling a Mac a peecee.

Only problem is a Mac IS as PC. PC stands for "Personal Computer", not for any specific platform.

 

[zac4mac]

Took yesterday off from the computer and rode my Harley. Beautiful day, but that's OT. Well, not really, I was listening to tunes under my flight hat.

Just discovered, the output jack on the new base seems to be a line-level out. iPod volume control has no effect(althought the volume slider moves). Other controls work fine.

This is very cool, playing tunes straight from the 'Pod, while it's plugged in. This'll be great on my Mac at work, won't have to tax it's wimpy G3 with iTunes...

 

[bellis1]

Very exciting

I've never owned an iPod but if this is the case then I will buy one in a second. Lets just hope the quality is good. And if you could watch the input levels on the screen it would be a godsend. I have a Tascam DAT and toyed with the idea of a minidisc but just thought it would be a waste of time. Nomad jukebox will record but it is not very great. This is a niche that apple could steal from everyone else. It is about time. Make the announcement with the software and I will buy it in a second and even buy the larger gig version. It just needs to be of good quality and you need to be able to monitor the recording level. Very very cool stuff. And just for the record I am not a Phish fan who cannot affor a Tascam. Just waiting for the right product. Although the recording through the earbuds must make them dirty kids smile.

 

[quantegy]

Ooooo, a little snobbery from you too, eh bellis? Stereotyping Phish phans and putting down products you've never used. Classy.

You know, I'm not a Mac person at all, don't own one Apple product, although I keep very up to date on Apple products as well as a lot of other products, especially with regards to recording. As I see it, Apple is jumping on the bandwagon for hard disc recording if it even comes to that. So what though right? If it happens to do 24/96 recording than that would be a milestone, and cheers to Apple, but I doubt very serouisly it will. From what I've read it feels more video oriented anyway, but maybe both. I will definitely be sizing it up if its audio recording and may end up getting one. Its very exciting. Bring on all the cool electronics from all companies.

 

[bellis1]

Other options?

Snobbish, possibly? Although I have to state that I have tried out both, Phish and MD recorders, and have been very disappointed. The problem with the MD is simply the transfering and the lack of quality minijack microphones (for my uses). The problem with Phish is the crowd and trying to fill in a niche that became vacant in the mid 90's. But it is a great example of market niche that needs to get filled. My question is what other quality devices are available besides DAT, MD, and the Nomad Jukebox? Others must have run into the same problems as I have had in trying to find a small device with high quality and the ability to easily control the recording levels. I've waited awhile for such a device to come on the market and am more than happy to wait for Apple. Phish fans I apologize unless you were some of the young drug induced fans watching Phish at Jazz Fest in New Orleans today!

 

[lazyrighteye]

Change Is Good

Maybe the recording your heard, bellis1, was lesser quality mics or pres than you are used to (as you surely know, it's all about the front in).
I have heard dozens of live recordngs on a Nomad, and they sound equivalent to the hundreds of DA-P1 recordingds I have made. If you have the same rig running > either a P1 or a Nomad, 98% of listeners can not tell a difference. And audiophiles are gonna chime in with the "tape is warmer" concept. It is... but again, 98% of listeners can not tell a difference (and sometimes I wonder about that other 2%).

When MD hit the scene (mid 90's), the quality was not there (still isn't), as it compresses the audio too much, for many DAT tapers' tastes. But with 24/96 digi audio, DAT is as dead as... The Dead ($70 a night for Red Rocks is dissappointing). It is safe to say, that portable digi recording has arrived.

bellis1, this may be something you are interested in:
http://www.sounddevices.com/products/7.htm

Or this:
http://www.core-sound.com/HighResRecorderNews.html#PDAUDIO

You may also want to check this site for any live audio recording information:
http://www.sonicsense.com

I think I have written Apple on a semi-daily basis, requesting they make the iPod able to record 24/96, uncomressed, .AIFF stereo audio, knowing it's not really a niche for them to dabble in. And while I am excited about these new iPods (mainly that nifty 32 pin port along the bottom), I feel we're looking at more of a video push from Apple here, and not audio (although I hope I'm wrong as I see many advantages to having a powerful, portable recording device).

I have had many successful recording sessions on my iBook/500, OS 10.2.5, via a Roland UA-30 and Peak LE 3.21 (like last night). But that's when I have supplied power, which is rare in field recording. When I'm dependadnt on my iBook's battery, fuggetaboutit. I can't even, safely record a 1.5 hour set. So, when it counts, I'm still dependant on my P1.

And while there are 3rd party batteries out there that would easily power my iBook for an entire 3 hour show (for $500), the idea of taking an iPod-only is just too droolable. Would like to see this happen.

Regardless, these latest developments/discoveries are pretty interesting. Will be fun to see where we go from here.

lazyrighteye

 

[mowgli212]

Sounds like a Zen

From everything I have read here and on other Mac/iPod boards it sounds like the proposed recording capabilities of the iPod will be limited to mono wav recording from a mic like the Creative Labs Zen with optional remote. This would really suck and would be even less functional than the Zen, which has the added ability of recording from the included FM tuner. What I have been waiting for is a stereo line-in and mp3 encoding functionality like Archos and even the Mambo-x Box have. Please tell me I'm wrong about this.

 

[Eniregnat]

Great feature, but I bet there is going to be a major firmware upgrade, perhaps even a hardware one, mainly because I don't see a bit depth or quality selection on the posted screen shots.

Also, why assume that it's for audio- why not audio and/or video?

 

[bennetsaysargh]

a microphone, and a firmware/software update should do the trick. you might be able to plug the microphone into the bottom or the one next to the headphone jack.

but one factor remains true all of the time...
only time will tell...

 

[jayb2000]

bootlegging

v. boot·legged, boot·leg·ging, boot·legs
v. tr.
1. To make, sell, or transport (alcoholic liquor) for sale illegally.

2. To produce, distribute, or sell without permission or illegally: a clandestine outfit that bootlegs compact discs and tapes.

OK, so I guess approved "Audience Recordings" is the correct term.

I was more thinking that since DAT is Digital and so is the iPod, that this could open up some great possibilities for people that did record concerts.

Its a cool technical possibility, thats all.
A 30gig portable recording device would be very handy, whether it was for class lectures, business meetings, or concerts.

Thanks to those that commented on the uncalled for attack.