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Reddit CEO: Apollo-Related Subreddit Blackouts 'Will Pass,' No Significant Revenue Impact So Far
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Well, I've had an interesting and illuminating morning -- and it's still early yet -- and I suppose I have the Apollo haters in this thread to thank for it. Confused? Yeah, me too.
I've been reading this thread off and on, and noted with some confusion that a contingent of posters with a chip on their shoulder towards Apollo and its creator (and by extension, towards all of the boycotting subs) had begun complaining about how Selig is a millionaire, and he just needs to pay up to Reddit for enriching him, etc., etc. That didn't quite mesh with my notion of how a two-man app shop is likely to operate, but yesterday when I looked up obvious searches like, "Is Christian Selig a millionaire?" naturally I got nothing particularly helpful. But this morning while I was in the shower, I had a couple of random thoughts: What does he actually charge for Apollo? And how many users does he have?
Needless to say, I immediately grabbed my phone (yes, while I was still showering -- don't judge me) and started googling. Turns out, Apollo has about 900K daily users, and Selig has been charging about $10 a year for the "premium" subscription model -- but there's also a "free" mode, which complicates the equation a bit. So, I tried a very generic google search for "What percentage of app users make in-app purchases?" Turns out, it's around 5% on average. While I was toweling off, I did some quick math in my head (which I just now verified with a spreadsheet) and came up with this: If we assume that 5% of Selig's daily users were dedicated long-term paying customers, that comes to roughly $450K per year. Not a bad payday! Of course, this is still extremely optimistic, as it doesn't account for Apple's cut, and it assumes that he had that many users every year that the app was in operation -- which isn't at all likely... but let's leave it at that number for now.
Another few clicks, and we can determine that the Apollo app has existed since October 2017. That's just less than six years, or to be more precise... about (math, math...) 68 months. So, if by some miracle, Apollo was an instant hit with 900K users from day one, that means that Selig's total potential gross income (before taxes, expenses, Apple fees, etc) over those nearly six years was (more math...) $2.55 million. So sure... I can see (sorta) how some people might have formed the impression that he's now a millionaire, thanks to Apollo. (Damn. I need to go write me an app!) As I alluded previously, reality being the stern mistress that it is, I'm sure that his actual finances (gross and otherwise) are well below that figure -- but once again, let's just move on.
As we all now know, Reddit is unapologetically demanding fees which would amount to $20 million per year for Apollo's current usage levels. Huh. Those numbers don't really mesh up at all, do they? It's almost as if Reddit doesn't give a crap about third-party clients and is actually trying to target an entirely different data consumer, with that figure... (Ahem -- ChatGPT) and Apollo is just another casualty in Reddit's ongoing efforts to finally become profitable.
In addition to all of that research, (which honestly didn't take much effort) I topped off my morning by (what else?) browsing a little bit on Reddit. I actually hadn't been back on at all since the boycott was declared, but I figured I'd take a peek and see how things are turning out at this point. I finished getting dressed and then scrolled through my feed from the official app -- and saw the same seven or eight posts over and over. I thought to myself, that's really weird... clearly some residual impact from the boycott.
Then while I was eating some oatmeal and putting together my lunchbox, I actually downloaded Apollo. I had never downloaded it before... I frankly didn't even know it existed until this entire fiasco; I've only ever used the website and the official app. Turns out, Apollo has a well-earned reputation: it's a really well done app. Even before I logged into my account, it was already presenting the Reddit stream in a more useful fashion. I mean, it's not a huge difference... but it's those noticable little things.
Then I logged in to look at my feed... and discovered that the repeating seven or eight posts is apparently a unique issue to the official app, because I saw quite a bit more content in my feed, in Apollo. I don't know exactly what's going on there. But I also noted that some of the account stuff that I usually have to go to old.reddit.com to see are right there in Apollo, seamlessly integrated. Fancy that.
I also attempted to check out some of the "premium" features, but it seems Selig has disabled access to those, which makes sense given that he's shutting the whole thing down at the end of the month.
So I'm both impressed... and disappointed that I'm only realizing this difference now.
And that was my morning. How is your morning going?
I've been reading this thread off and on, and noted with some confusion that a contingent of posters with a chip on their shoulder towards Apollo and its creator (and by extension, towards all of the boycotting subs) had begun complaining about how Selig is a millionaire, and he just needs to pay up to Reddit for enriching him, etc., etc. That didn't quite mesh with my notion of how a two-man app shop is likely to operate, but yesterday when I looked up obvious searches like, "Is Christian Selig a millionaire?" naturally I got nothing particularly helpful. But this morning while I was in the shower, I had a couple of random thoughts: What does he actually charge for Apollo? And how many users does he have?
Needless to say, I immediately grabbed my phone (yes, while I was still showering -- don't judge me) and started googling. Turns out, Apollo has about 900K daily users, and Selig has been charging about $10 a year for the "premium" subscription model -- but there's also a "free" mode, which complicates the equation a bit. So, I tried a very generic google search for "What percentage of app users make in-app purchases?" Turns out, it's around 5% on average. While I was toweling off, I did some quick math in my head (which I just now verified with a spreadsheet) and came up with this: If we assume that 5% of Selig's daily users were dedicated long-term paying customers, that comes to roughly $450K per year. Not a bad payday! Of course, this is still extremely optimistic, as it doesn't account for Apple's cut, and it assumes that he had that many users every year that the app was in operation -- which isn't at all likely... but let's leave it at that number for now.
Another few clicks, and we can determine that the Apollo app has existed since October 2017. That's just less than six years, or to be more precise... about (math, math...) 68 months. So, if by some miracle, Apollo was an instant hit with 900K users from day one, that means that Selig's total potential gross income (before taxes, expenses, Apple fees, etc) over those nearly six years was (more math...) $2.55 million. So sure... I can see (sorta) how some people might have formed the impression that he's now a millionaire, thanks to Apollo. (Damn. I need to go write me an app!) As I alluded previously, reality being the stern mistress that it is, I'm sure that his actual finances (gross and otherwise) are well below that figure -- but once again, let's just move on.
As we all now know, Reddit is unapologetically demanding fees which would amount to $20 million per year for Apollo's current usage levels. Huh. Those numbers don't really mesh up at all, do they? It's almost as if Reddit doesn't give a crap about third-party clients and is actually trying to target an entirely different data consumer, with that figure... (Ahem -- ChatGPT) and Apollo is just another casualty in Reddit's ongoing efforts to finally become profitable.
In addition to all of that research, (which honestly didn't take much effort) I topped off my morning by (what else?) browsing a little bit on Reddit. I actually hadn't been back on at all since the boycott was declared, but I figured I'd take a peek and see how things are turning out at this point. I finished getting dressed and then scrolled through my feed from the official app -- and saw the same seven or eight posts over and over. I thought to myself, that's really weird... clearly some residual impact from the boycott.
Then while I was eating some oatmeal and putting together my lunchbox, I actually downloaded Apollo. I had never downloaded it before... I frankly didn't even know it existed until this entire fiasco; I've only ever used the website and the official app. Turns out, Apollo has a well-earned reputation: it's a really well done app. Even before I logged into my account, it was already presenting the Reddit stream in a more useful fashion. I mean, it's not a huge difference... but it's those noticable little things.
Then I logged in to look at my feed... and discovered that the repeating seven or eight posts is apparently a unique issue to the official app, because I saw quite a bit more content in my feed, in Apollo. I don't know exactly what's going on there. But I also noted that some of the account stuff that I usually have to go to old.reddit.com to see are right there in Apollo, seamlessly integrated. Fancy that.
I also attempted to check out some of the "premium" features, but it seems Selig has disabled access to those, which makes sense given that he's shutting the whole thing down at the end of the month.
So I'm both impressed... and disappointed that I'm only realizing this difference now.
And that was my morning. How is your morning going?
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You know full well, and so did Elon, that it was overvalued. He bought not to succeed financially, he bought it to correct a major wrong in the world. He succeeded for the most part.
Misinformation being reported as misinformation isn't a wrong in the world.
It's now a cesspool of blue checked. Sorry but no. More than half of Twitter's Top 1000 advertisers left for good reason.
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I don't mean for this to sound disrespectful, but so what? Reddit is a private business and they can crank up their prices however they see fit to become profitable. They aren't in the business of providing free or low cost access to these 3rd party devs who made some money, in the case of Apollo it seems it was pretty profitable for him. Landlord fees are a different matter, 1) they are typically protected by laws against price gouging, at least in most states in the US, and 2) have you seen rent prices this past year and how they have astronomically increased?
THIS comment reeks of ignorance. Reddit is a private company and can charge what they want, for any reason they want to, and in any time frame they choose to offer. I'm sure their lawyers researched and made sure they were not breaking any laws. What's next, complaining that Apple is charging you $3499 for their headset? What makes these 3rd party devs entitled to get discount pricing? And if Reddit's only motivation is to put them out of business, which I agree that seems to be exactly the case, again so what? How many companies has Apple put out of business to further their business goals? Probably a lot, but I don't see anyone up in arms over that.
"...the issue is that those devs are now complaining when Reddit decided to start charging for the APIs" Nothing about that comment is untrue, that's EXACTLY what these devs are doing. If their business model doesn't work with the new API pricing then they need to figure out a new one.
I highly doubt Apollo has 45,000 premium users (5% of 900,000 daily users) paying the $10 a year but only the developer can tell us the true amount.
Hey, *******, the blackout has nothing to do with revenue. We get it, you think you're smarter than M00t because you made a cleaner version of 4chan.
But 4chan still has loyal users doing whatever it is they do and the website is still around. Moot hasn't pissed on his users, or thrown his balls on the table acting like some sort of New York Mouth Breathing Stock Trader.
And his choice of username is apropos given that Spaz is not that far of a misspelling.
But 4chan still has loyal users doing whatever it is they do and the website is still around. Moot hasn't pissed on his users, or thrown his balls on the table acting like some sort of New York Mouth Breathing Stock Trader.
And his choice of username is apropos given that Spaz is not that far of a misspelling.
And people are well within their rights to be unhappy, and this is their way of voicing their unhappiness and frustration. And if a certain IPO fails to take off, I am not shedding a tear.
And here we are.
No, there is not -- but you are under no obligation to read it.
And people are well within their rights to be unhappy, and this is their way of voicing their unhappiness and frustration. And if a certain IPO fails to take off, I am not shedding a tear.
And here we are.
Of course people have the right to be unhappy and complain, I've never contested that at all. Even though the blackouts are affecting MY ability to use Reddit, I'm still not complaining myself. Just to be clear, if Reddit went the way of Digg and another company became the leader I also couldn't care less, but I also realize that none of these companies, INCLUDING these 3rd party devs that are complaining so loudly, care one iota about me personally other than as a means to profit.
I'm giving them until the 30th to change their minds. Once Apollo is officially dead, I'm deleting both of my accounts and never looking back. I did the same for Twitter when Musk killed off Tweetbot.
Nothing, but no mods and it will go to **** in a hurry. People will just start spamming those subreddits to kill off any interest in going on there at all.
On the surface, this sounds like you're suggesting that people will spam the subs specifically to kill off Reddit. I'm sure that's not what you really meant... but just to clarify:
I agree that uncontrolled spam is likely what will kill Reddit, in the event that the community mods all either get blocked or pull up stakes and move on, but not because of anything that the mods or the boycotters do. Rather, it'll be an obvious natural consequence of what the mods are no longer doing.
Don't forget to delete all your comments first! This will prevent them from making money off the content you provided
Reddit has made no money so far. But you know who has? Apollo
I agree mostly, but the person who posted does still own their content.
I am not entirely sure what you mean by "Others do not own it but they can use it"
Reddit has basically the equivalent to a "copy" of your content. They can do whatever they want with it and you have no right to say what they can and can't do with it. You own your "original" content, but in the digital space that doesn't mean much.
Reddit User Agreement
If you look at section 5 paragraph 4, it pretty clearly spells it out. You "own" it, but by using their service in any way, so does Reddit.