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Well, at least you're being somewhat more intellectually honest.

No I've always been "intellectually honest," where I see the intellectual dishonesty is everyone defending these for-profit developer because now they are forced to pay up for something they have profited from because they received it for free. All the passive-aggressive terminology won't save you from that simple truth.
 
Well, at least you're being somewhat more intellectually honest.
In the end justice will prevail
  • Reddit legally and rightfully owns all the content, they will remove 3rd party apps entirely
  • Mods was given a chance to vent (by holding the subs hostage for a few days) but will be removed if it continues
  • Majority of the users just want things to go back to normal, 3rd party apps is not even in the slightest consideration
  • Apollo will be deleted and he is fairly compensated for the work he has put in all these years (close to 3 million USD)
 
Every one of my subs are reopened. Spez is absolute correct, things "will pass"
Screenshot 2023-06-16 at 7.42.55 PM.png
 
Loving the mod drama. So many have quit or been booted this past week over this.
Yep, and that's a good thing. Honestly, most mods are tiny little people who finally have a little bit of power and think they are a god now, living in their mom's basement, sucking down Code Red and typing on a Cheeto encrusted keyboard on how your opinion or idea offended them and you are banned for it.

I would wonder how many of the mods have their volunteer activity as mods listed as a job on a linked in profile!
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: trusso
You need to remember one thing, T&C's are not worth the paper or digital space they are written in because time after time they get challenged and lose. T&C's are there to scare users into doing things and not doing things. Also, this thing about a social media company can do what ever they want with what a person posts, no they cannot. Again there are videos on youtube where people have taken Facebook and Instagram to court for using images of a persons profile and using it in commercial applications. A company may claim they can use what you post but as soon as they try to make money of what you post, nope, not going to happen. I remember watching a youtube channel of a photography couple who would post tutorial videos on youtube and post their photo's on Instagram and they notice their photo's were being used by some of Intagrams 'partners/vendors' for commercial gain. The couple would takes these companies to court and guess what, they would win because the judges would say that whilst the T&C's may grant companies a right to use a user pictures, they do not have the right to use them for monetary gain without getting permission from the owners of the work.

I am not saying you are wrong, but that has not been my experience. I am ok if we have different experiences. Would you happen to have any sources you can cite where a companies T&C's were overturned in the specific manor that you mentioned? I am not "calling your bluff" I am truly interested in the details of how those people signed away their rights and then got them back. Typically there are nuances involved that explain the story, and those are, for me always interesting to see.

Also, can we also agree that unless we are talking about something that requires the scientific degree of detail, that we can speak in relative generalities?

For example, if a small percent of the time these companies can't enforce their T&C's, it doesn't invalidate them as a whole. With these large companies, there are millions, maybe hundreds of millions of users. These users, as a majority, follow the T&C's. There are always court cases where these disputes go one way or the other, the bigger picture is that the contract enforcement works for all of the times certain behavior is avoided or forced. Meaning, it isn't about legal battles. Those always will exist and will continue throughout time, and this is regardless of how "good" your contract is. The point is to avoid the behavior or to force the behavior the majority of the time WITHOUT the need of a court. This is why companies continue to use contracts like the T&C's and why they are still valid.
 
And now it looks like Reddit will be doing exactly that:


My guess is that there will be a short burst of anger and some mods exiting. And in couple of weeks Reddit continues being Reddit.
Changing out moderator teams is potentially a _lot_ of headaches. Reddit is outsourcing things they are required to do as part of their platform by contract/by law. They can't elect new moderators via lottery, and can't afford to pay for it to be done on the clock.
 
Changing out moderator teams is potentially a _lot_ of headaches. Reddit is outsourcing things they are required to do as part of their platform by contract/by law. They can't elect new moderators via lottery, and can't afford to pay for it to be done on the clock.
Which law/contract is this?
 
Which law/contract is this?
First which they would most likely hit is their contract to publish apps in the App Store and Google Play store. This can be seen in apps like Parler being removed for an extended period of time as they transitioned from a "no moderation is a core principal" stance to "we need to moderate to be a viable business"

However there are also restrictions on pornographic works and hate speech in several locations that also effectively mandate moderated communities.

Things like Section 230 in the telecommunications act provide some immunities, but not blanket immunities from platforms which host user generated content.

You also have the requirements of laws like DMCA, but companies typically have to handle these requests themselves. There are negative side-effects of automated DMCA takedowns, which are well documented.

Outside of explicit regulatory and contractual obligations, their advertisers also do not want to see their brands being displayed next to and associated with certain material.
 
I don't think you understand how network effects work.
Apollo has millions of users - pretty good chance of taking half of them with you onto a new reddit.

Sure it's a risk, just like any startup.

But name me one startup that starts out with millions of potential users and I can name you a startup that will get funded in no time.

Most start out with 0.
 
Every one of my subs are reopened. Spez is absolute correct, things "will pass"
View attachment 2219177
How many of the subs you watch/visit are well maintained and run? Are trolls removed?, spam posts removed? are misinformation posts removed? are bad 'actors' removed? (user who intend to cause problems) because if they are a) it shows that the mod's of the subs are doing a very good job in keeping the sub clean so others can benefit from it and b) I have no doubt that is why you visit the subs you do because they are well maintained.

If the CEO had removed the mods and were replaced with people who had no experience of being a mod, how quickly would the subs get out of control? would you have still visited them if you noticed that the subs were being flooded with spam posts? How quickly would you have complained about the subs you visit descending into chaos because your viewing experience is being ruined due to experienced mods being replaced with inexperienced ones. You complained about not being able to view some of subs you visit so I have no doubt you would have complained if a sub you visit was not to your liking (result of CEO removing experienced mods)
 
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