Refresh of 15" and 17" but not of 13" -- is it possible?

[NickZac]

I really get the feeling that the amount of people that have the attitude of "I'm only getting a Mac if it's the 13" MacBook Pro" are in the vast minority. Then again, a lot of people switch to Apple because it is prettier and I don't quite fathom the logic on that one. Oh wait, there isn't any,

How do you reason this? If anything, they will discontinue the 17 inch, which I also don't see as likely. The 13 far outsells both the 15 and 17 inch. The 13 sells so well that Apple has 3 different 13 inch laptops, all which fill different niche markets. Stopping the 13 inch MBP with its current success makes about as much sense as Trojan stopping condom production and switching to making soft drinks.

Most people can't afford the 2 grand for the 15/17, and most students don't need the power nor do they want the bulk. With that said, I like the backlit keyboard, I like the nicer trackpad, and I like being able to put my own common SSD in. If they stop the 13, my money goes somewhere else. If they stop the 13, they are going to lose quite a few prospective customers, especially considering their stronghold in higher education.

 

[Yebubbleman]

How do you reason this? If anything, they will discontinue the 17 inch, which I also don't see as likely. The 13 far outsells both the 15 and 17 inch. The 13 sells so well that Apple has 3 different 13 inch laptops, all which fill different niche markets. Stopping the 13 inch MBP with its current success makes about as much sense as Trojan stopping condom production and switching to making soft drinks.

Most people can't afford the 2 grand for the 15/17, and most students don't need the power nor do they want the bulk. With that said, I like the backlit keyboard, I like the nicer trackpad, and I like being able to put my own common SSD in. If they stop the 13, my money goes somewhere else. If they stop the 13, they are going to lose quite a few prospective customers, especially considering their stronghold in higher education.

For one, the 17" has a two things that the other two (three if you count the white MacBook) don't, the ExpressCard Slot and the extra USB 2.0 port. I'm gonna focus on the former when I say that there are a select few who need this feature and now that the 17" MacBook Pro is the only one with it, they are THAT much less likely to kill it.

As for the rest of your argument, you imply as though Apple was completely screwed before June of 2009 when the first of the two 13" MacBook Pro revs was released. If the 13" Pro disappears, it'll be a small loss and then most people will either gravitate to either whatever is referred to only as "MacBook" (certainly, if they dropped the Pro moniker from the 13" MacBook Pro, it'd still sell just as well), the 15" MacBook Pro, or the 13" Air. It would be a small loss if any at all.

 

[gonnabuyamacbsh]

It's true, for an IGP, we've never had better before. For what it is and for April 2010 technology, it's not bad at all.



I really get the feeling that the amount of people that have the attitude of "I'm only getting a Mac if it's the 13" MacBook Pro" are in the vast minority. Then again, a lot of people switch to Apple because it is prettier and I don't quite fathom the logic on that one. Oh wait, there isn't any,

I couldn't disagree more. Most people I know that have macbooks have 13" machines. If they don't upgrade the 13" I'll just shop elsewhere and I personally know many others who will as well.


people won't simply say "oh I was planning on buying the $1200 machine but I guess I'll buy the $1800 laptop instead". that's too big a price difference and for many too damn expensive for just a laptop.

 

[torbjoern]

I couldn't disagree more. Most people I know that have macbooks have 13" machines. If they don't upgrade the 13" I'll just shop elsewhere and I personally know many others who will as well.

people won't simply say "oh I was planning on buying the $1200 machine but I guess I'll buy the $1800 laptop instead". that's too big a price difference and for many too damn expensive for just a laptop.

I follow you on that - but it raises an obvious question: What about those who are already used to OS X now and don't have any need for built-in SD (or FW)? Aren't they more likely to go with the white plastic model than change back to HP/Asus/Acer? What if MB white gets these features?

Heaven forbid that such a "consolidation" of MB and MBP takes place anyway, but one computer less among the 13" ones doesn't necessarily mean that one gets totally eliminated without any significant change in the others.

 

[Hellhammer]

I really get the feeling that the amount of people that have the attitude of "I'm only getting a Mac if it's the 13" MacBook Pro" are in the vast minority. Then again, a lot of people switch to Apple because it is prettier and I don't quite fathom the logic on that one. Oh wait, there isn't any,

For most people, 13" is their ONLY option. Seriously, how many people can fork out 1799$ for laptop? 13" is the only MBP that can somehow be classified as a mainstream laptop. That is what the people who don't have an unlimited budget or special computing needs buy, such as students. Honestly, the buyer or 15" and 17" MBP are the real minority since only very few of us can spend nearly or even over 2000$ on a computer.

All this stuff about discontinuing 13" MBP is complete nonsense. It would be like killing the iPod Nano. I admit that the situation is tricky because there is no perfect component option for the 13" but that is still not enough to justify the crap about discontinuing it. That is Apple's bestseller, that is what people buy! Killing it would be like shooting yourself to your own leg.

 

[Yebubbleman]

I follow you on that - but it raises an obvious question: What about those who are already used to OS X now and don't have any need for built-in SD (or FW)? Aren't they more likely to go with the white plastic model than change back to HP/Asus/Acer? What if MB white gets these features?

Heaven forbid that such a "consolidation" of MB and MBP takes place anyway, but one computer less among the 13" ones doesn't necessarily mean that one gets totally eliminated without any significant change in the others.

This.

I couldn't disagree more. Most people I know that have macbooks have 13" machines. If they don't upgrade the 13" I'll just shop elsewhere and I personally know many others who will as well.


people won't simply say "oh I was planning on buying the $1200 machine but I guess I'll buy the $1800 laptop instead". that's too big a price difference and for many too damn expensive for just a laptop.

So why not buy the exact same machine, sans the Aluminum, FireWire Port, and SD card slot for $200 less ($100 less if you match the two machines in their stock RAM capacity)?

For most people, 13" is their ONLY option. Seriously, how many people can fork out 1799$ for laptop? 13" is the only MBP that can somehow be classified as a mainstream laptop. That is what the people who don't have an unlimited budget or special computing needs buy, such as students. Honestly, the buyer or 15" and 17" MBP are the real minority since only very few of us can spend nearly or even over 2000$ on a computer.

It's their only option if they need FireWire, or an SD card slot, or a machine that "looks cooler" otherwise the white MacBook is cheaper and does the job just as well as it's PRACTICALLY THE SAME FREAKIN COMPUTER UNDERNEATH!

All this stuff about discontinuing 13" MBP is complete nonsense. It would be like killing the iPod Nano. I admit that the situation is tricky because there is no perfect component option for the 13" but that is still not enough to justify the crap about discontinuing it. That is Apple's bestseller, that is what people buy! Killing it would be like shooting yourself to your own leg.

Steve Jobs announced the first iPod nano by prefacing that he would discontinue the iPod mini, which, admittedly was the best selling iPod by far at the time, and replacing it with something new with the aim of taking its marketshare. A precedent wouldn't be set if the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. Also technically, he could just drop "Pro" from it and you could technically say that the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. I don't think anyone here is necessarily ruling that possibility out either. Also, I'd like to see data, that is newer than the Mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro (at the earliest), that states that the 13" Pro is STILL their bestseller.

 

[torbjoern]

So why not buy the exact same machine, sans the Aluminum, FireWire Port, and SD card slot for $200 less ($100 less if you match the two machines in their stock RAM capacity)?

It's their only option if they need FireWire, or an SD card slot, or a machine that "looks cooler" otherwise the white MacBook is cheaper and does the job just as well as it's PRACTICALLY THE SAME FREAKIN COMPUTER UNDERNEATH!

Aesthetics should not be underestimated here. Don't forget the backlit keyboard - and the aluminum is worth $100 in itself. I want a machine that looks cooler than the white plastic toy MB when I'm already paying a lot for the computer.

Steve Jobs announced the first iPod nano by prefacing that he would discontinue the iPod mini, which, admittedly was the best selling iPod by far at the time, and replacing it with something new with the aim of taking its marketshare. A precedent wouldn't be set if the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. Also technically, he could just drop "Pro" from it and you could technically say that the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. I don't think anyone here is necessarily ruling that possibility out either. Also, I'd like to see data, that is newer than the Mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro (at the earliest), that states that the 13" Pro is STILL their bestseller.

Sometimes I wish they had killed the iPod nano too instead of crippling it by removing the tactile interface.

 

[MedusasPath]

This.



So why not buy the exact same machine, sans the Aluminum, FireWire Port, and SD card slot for $200 less ($100 less if you match the two machines in their stock RAM capacity)?



It's their only option if they need FireWire, or an SD card slot, or a machine that "looks cooler" otherwise the white MacBook is cheaper and does the job just as well as it's PRACTICALLY THE SAME FREAKIN COMPUTER UNDERNEATH!



Steve Jobs announced the first iPod nano by prefacing that he would discontinue the iPod mini, which, admittedly was the best selling iPod by far at the time, and replacing it with something new with the aim of taking its marketshare. A precedent wouldn't be set if the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. Also technically, he could just drop "Pro" from it and you could technically say that the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued. I don't think anyone here is necessarily ruling that possibility out either. Also, I'd like to see data, that is newer than the Mid 2010 13" MacBook Pro (at the earliest), that states that the 13" Pro is STILL their bestseller.

One big LOL for that.

I would buy a 13" MBP soloely because of the alluminium case (small weight, small size). That's really my only reason to switch to the Mac.
That plastic MB, no way in hell I would want that.

If they discontinue the 13" MBP, I'll most definitely buy a ThinkPad.

 

[Hellhammer]

Also technically, he could just drop "Pro" from it and you could technically say that the 13" MacBook Pro was discontinued.

Why was it added in the first place then? Makes no sense to use it for two years and then drop it, even though the products are still exactly the same. 13" MBP has never been special or "pro" machine, the pro tag was just added due to marketing reasons. It's here to stay.

Moreover, aluminum is Apple's style. EOLing 13" MBP would mean that the MacBook would just become a 13" MBP without the Pro tag. I think I made myself clear why it doesn't make sense to drop the pro tag. It didn't make much sense to add it, yet it makes even less sense to drop it after less than two years.

I still don't get it why is there so damn big urge to discontinue something. The current lineup is just fine. MacBook has its market, 13" MBP has its market, even 13" MBA has its market. For once, Apple is offering more than one option at the same price point. That, if something, is nothing else but a good thing.

 

[Yebubbleman]

One big LOL for that.

I would buy a 13" MBP soloely because of the alluminium case (small weight, small size). That's really my only reason to switch to the Mac.
That plastic MB, no way in hell I would want that.

If they discontinue the 13" MBP, I'll most definitely buy a ThinkPad.

Aesthetics should not be underestimated here. Don't forget the backlit keyboard - and the aluminum is worth $100 in itself. I want a machine that looks cooler than the white plastic toy MB when I'm already paying a lot for the computer.


Sometimes I wish they had killed the iPod nano too instead of crippling it by removing the tactile interface.

It's weird to see where some Mac users place value in things. For me, I'd think that what's under the hood of the computer is far more important than what's above it. I don't care if it's plastic or aluminum. Is it a Mac? And does it perform well? If both of those answers are true, then I see no reason to pay more for a prettier exterior, especially in this poor economy.

Why was it added in the first place then? Makes no sense to use it for two years and then drop it, even though the products are still exactly the same. 13" MBP has never been special or "pro" machine, the pro tag was just added due to marketing reasons. It's here to stay.

Moreover, aluminum is Apple's style. EOLing 13" MBP would mean that the MacBook would just become a 13" MBP without the Pro tag. I think I made myself clear why it doesn't make sense to drop the pro tag. It didn't make much sense to add it, yet it makes even less sense to drop it after less than two years.

I still don't get it why is there so damn big urge to discontinue something. The current lineup is just fine. MacBook has its market, 13" MBP has its market, even 13" MBA has its market. For once, Apple is offering more than one option at the same price point. That, if something, is nothing else but a good thing.

Frankly, dropping the "Pro" name from the 13" MacBook Pro makes slightly more sense than removing the aluminum MacBook from the "MacBook" product line to begin with. And the latter happened only after one generation! I have no urge to discontinue anything, least of all my favorite currently shipping Apple computer. For a variety of reasons, I just don't see it sticking around much longer. Frankly, if we're using Intel graphics, the marketing model of having a 15" and a 17" Pro line with discrete graphics and a single line for a 13" with an IGP (two if you count the MBA) makes sense while the Intel graphics are still inferior to the incumbent NVIDIA IGP. The 13" Pro was made because while the 9400M isn't stellar, it was so much better than what had been living inside of a MacBook before, that it almost earned the title. In this case, it's far more of a marketing mess as the 13" Pro with Sandy Bridge is no more or less stupid than having a Black MacBook was for its day.

 

[AAPLaday]

The first ones had problems? The ones we have had are still doing just fine as is their 'primitive' 64GB SSDs

A lot of the first gen had terrible over heating problems. The 9400 in the next revision made a huge difference to the usability of the laptop

 

[Hellhammer]

Frankly, dropping the "Pro" name from the 13" MacBook Pro makes slightly more sense than removing the aluminum MacBook from the "MacBook" product line to begin with. And the latter happened only after one generation!

Still doesn't explain why they added it in the first place. If they wanted 13" to be just a MacBook, why didn't they keep it so?

Frankly, if we're using Intel graphics, the marketing model of having a 15" and a 17" Pro line with discrete graphics and a single line for a 13" with an IGP (two if you count the MBA) makes sense while the Intel graphics are still inferior to the incumbent NVIDIA IGP.

Well, the current 13" uses 2008 CPU technology aka Core 2 Duo and Apple has no problems calling it a MacBook Pro. I doubt they have any issues calling 13" with Intel IGP a MacBook Pro.

The 13" Pro was made because while the 9400M isn't stellar, it was so much better than what had been living inside of a MacBook before, that it almost earned the title.

The aluminum MacBook had 9400M as well.

 

[Funkymonk]

It's weird to see where some Mac users place value in things. For me, I'd think that what's under the hood of the computer is far more important than what's above it. I don't care if it's plastic or aluminum. Is it a Mac? And does it perform well? If both of those answers are true, then I see no reason to pay more for a prettier exterior, especially in this poor economy.

Lol the reason I'm buying a mac is because of the pretty exterior. If I wanted a beast under the hood I would look else where.

 

[Yin]

Lol the reason I'm buying a mac is because of the pretty exterior. If I wanted a beast under the hood I would look else where.

couldn't agree more. linux is more stable than mac os and the specs of other manufacturers are way better.
for consumer (thus people who mostly do not depend on certain mac only software) the exterior of the mac is very important.

 

[Kauai]

It's weird to see where some Mac users place value in things. For me, I'd think that what's under the hood of the computer is far more important than what's above it. I don't care if it's plastic or aluminum. Is it a Mac? And does it perform well? If both of those answers are true, then I see no reason to pay more for a prettier exterior, especially in this poor economy.

This is so much freaking crap I can't even fathom where to begin. Do you buy nice looking clothes? How about good tasting food? A decent looking car? Paint on your house?

For 100$ extra dollars, a much better looking exterior, a back-lit keyboard and arguably better material is MORE than worth it. I'm so, so, sooo sick of hearing people say "OHHH LOLLOL YOU CARE ABOUT LOOKS?" because YESSS. Looks matter! I'm willing to pay extra for a laptop (or phone, if that matters) that looks sleek. MOST people in this world DO care about looks. And within reason, there is nothing wrong with that.

In any case, add me to the list whom is planning to buy an upgraded 13 MBP. And if Apple doesn't budge, I'm going elsewhere.

 

[T-bag]

I decided to switch to mac because of the 13 inch aluminum from late 2008. I know about many others who did it for the exact same reason. Apple knows this. They should rather change the form factors of the 15 and 17 inch models. Maybe only have a 16 inch? Very few really need to have the power of the 17" on the go. Apple needs to tidy it up a little to make it easier to decide! The first step is to put the 13 inch on steroids to extinguish it from the mba, and give it FW port(s). Only one base model for each formfactor to prevent confusion. It's time for apple to give a little more bang for the buck!

 

[orfeas0]

For one, the 17" has a two things that the other two (three if you count the white MacBook) don't, the ExpressCard Slot and the extra USB 2.0 port. I'm gonna focus on the former when I say that there are a select few who need this feature and now that the 17" MacBook Pro is the only one with it, they are THAT much less likely to kill it.

As for the rest of your argument, you imply as though Apple was completely screwed before June of 2009 when the first of the two 13" MacBook Pro revs was released. If the 13" Pro disappears, it'll be a small loss and then most people will either gravitate to either whatever is referred to only as "MacBook" (certainly, if they dropped the Pro moniker from the 13" MacBook Pro, it'd still sell just as well), the 15" MacBook Pro, or the 13" Air. It would be a small loss if any at all.

cmon, 3usbs... just get a usb splitter and with 5$ you have like 10 usb ports! people talk about external hdds, external optical drives... the external usb splitter is so cheap and small that having many usbs in your laptop is useless.
and if the 13 pro dissapears , then most people will move to the white macbook (which hopefully will be a lot better than now, and please with the old looks )

 

[orfeas0]

For 100$ extra dollars, a much better looking exterior, a back-lit keyboard and arguably better material is MORE than worth it.

although i agree with the "looks" thing (i want my laptop to be nice in the exterior), the aluminium not only bends easily (in cases which the plastic wouldnt suffer any loss), but also blocks quite a lot of your wifi signal (compared to the plastic macbook which has probably the best signal from all laptops).
but then again, it's your choice, if you like aluminium go for it. i prefer the white one.
oh and also, aluminium's edges near the trackpad are really rough and they cut your hand while you type -.-

 

[Iphone3gs]

Is it possible that Apple will only do a refresh of 15" and 17" MBPs and leave the 13" for a later update?

Has this ever happened before?

Yes this has happened before.

It has even happened the 15" get updated by itself without 17".....

 

[orfeas0]

What do you guys think about:
13inch white macbook (polycarbonate)
14inch macbook pro (aluminium)
16inch macbook pro (aluminium)

and ofc the airs as we know them.
i can't really talk specs now, but i guess the 14inch macbook pro will be both portable and have a potential of better components.

 

[Erasmus]

What do you guys think about:
13inch white macbook (polycarbonate)
14inch macbook pro (aluminium)
16inch macbook pro (aluminium)

I hate the idea.

Smaller screens = worse.

Apple already struggle to put half decent components (emphasis on half) in the 15". If anything, the MBPs need to get bigger, so they can get better components.

On another note, I find it intensely amusing that people are defending both the 13" MBP and the white MB. In my eyes, they both suck. They are both pointless machines. Too small and underpowered to be useful.

What can I say? I remember the days before cheap Apple products, where your entry level powerbook was like 3 grand.
I'm starting to miss those days. At least then you could get something that could compete with other brands in power.

Apple, can we go back to the exclusive days?

 

[Kauai]

On another note, I find it intensely amusing that people are defending both the 13" MBP and the white MB. In my eyes, they both suck. They are both pointless machines. Too small and underpowered to be useful.

Believe it or not, most people in the world don't run programs that use even 50% of their CPU or RAM. Most computers in the personal market are for entertainment. And if I could survive for half a year on a single core celeron with 2gb of RAM. (My other laptop broke and I couldn't afford another at the time.) When I DO actually do some pretty intensive things compared to anyone in my family or friends, then your points are completely invalid and your clearly out of touch with the average consumer.

Why do some people feel the need to be so obnoxious and judgmental. You find it AMUSING? I mean really? That people here are saying these computers fit their needs and budget perfectly? Isn't that up for them to decide rather than you?

EDIT; Hey, while were at it, let's get rid of the dual core computers too. Granny really needs that quad core desktop! How else will she check her mail?

 

[orfeas0]

I hate the idea.

Smaller screens = worse.

Apple already struggle to put half decent components (emphasis on half) in the 15". If anything, the MBPs need to get bigger, so they can get better components.

On another note, I find it intensely amusing that people are defending both the 13" MBP and the white MB. In my eyes, they both suck. They are both pointless machines. Too small and underpowered to be useful.

What can I say? I remember the days before cheap Apple products, where your entry level powerbook was like 3 grand.
I'm starting to miss those days. At least then you could get something that could compete with other brands in power.

Apple, can we go back to the exclusive days?

yea, you know not everyone has 3 grand to throw for a laptop. but there still are bto options that cost 3 grand, so wtf is your problem? do you hate poor people or what? and as you can see from the sales, most people prefer 13" screens. and i even said make it bigger (14"), and well, maybe after the 16" they can make a 18" pro pro machine for guys like you.
edit: compete with other brands in power? that'll never happen with apple, as it has never happened before.
unless you mean that the 3k $ powerbook competes with 1,5k$ laptops from other brands -.-

 

[Hellhammer]

On another note, I find it intensely amusing that people are defending both the 13" MBP and the white MB. In my eyes, they both suck. They are both pointless machines. Too small and underpowered to be useful.

What can I say? I remember the days before cheap Apple products, where your entry level powerbook was like 3 grand.
I'm starting to miss those days. At least then you could get something that could compete with other brands in power.

You are part of the extremely tiny minority who might be able to take advantage of more powerful machines. People don't need a quad core to run Safari and iTunes simultaneously. 13" MB and MBP are more than fine for billions of people.

Besides, I don't always get it why do people buy laptops for intensive tasks. You are paying a huge premium for portability while a desktop for less than half the cost provides more power, and upgradeability.

 

[DeViAnThans3]

I've yet to get my first Mac (I'm currently waiting for the new batch of MBP's release..), but the reason of my coming switch is mainly the form factor (next to the whole Apple-experience obviously).

I'ld be pretty disappointed if they discontinued the 13", but if they do, they'll probably have a pretty good reason for it. Such a discontinuation would not lead me to leave Apple though, I'ld probably go with a MBA 13" than. A MBP 15" will eventually (after software & AC purchases) exceed my budget.

This is just my own opinion; I can imagine that if Apple would discontinue their 13", most of the 13" user base would move on to another Apple computer, just as I'ld. They may lose a few customers, but definitely not a lot.

That doesn't mean I am convinced Apple will axe the 13" MBP; I've read all the arguments that would prove this theory, but we'll only know when Apple finally pushes the updates.