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Refresh of 15" and 17" but not of 13" -- is it possible?
- Thread starter CopperX
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Some people just don't understand marketing. I agree with you completely. Apple will continue production of the 13" MacBook Pro, it will continue to be aluminum, and it will continue to be designated "Pro."
I also agree that the internals of the 2011 model are still a bit iffy. It will be interesting to see what Steve has decided to do with it this year. But whatever happens this time, going forward things should improve a little with Ivy Bridge, and a lot with Haswell.
Oh my. Every time I read these forums I always find a new reason to convince myself to wait, even when it's irrational. At this rate, I'll be elderly and still waiting for that new MBP right around the corner!
For people who ask why should Apple not discontinue the MBP 13" when the MB 13" is practically the same, ask yourself these questions.
Why do people buy an Audi A4 if they can buy a Seat Exeo (lot cheaper) with exact the same engine, interior, performance, etc. etc. ?
Why do people buy Hugo Boss polo instead of a non-brand polo which is made in the same company in China, made by the same people and made by the same supplies?
The answer is simple: status, differentiation, showing off, exclusivity and mainly status: how do other people see you?
It's the same with the MBP 13", and I agree with more people around here, if the MBP 13" will be discontinued I will consider other options than a Mac, since I am used to Windows and not a former Mac user this is not a big dilemma for me compared to people who are already used to a Mac.
And yes I am also one of these stupid dumbasses which pays 200 dollar/euro more for a laptop that looks more fancy but has the same specifications as a plastic alternative.
So be it.
Why do people buy an Audi A4 if they can buy a Seat Exeo (lot cheaper) with exact the same engine, interior, performance, etc. etc. ?
Why do people buy Hugo Boss polo instead of a non-brand polo which is made in the same company in China, made by the same people and made by the same supplies?
The answer is simple: status, differentiation, showing off, exclusivity and mainly status: how do other people see you?
It's the same with the MBP 13", and I agree with more people around here, if the MBP 13" will be discontinued I will consider other options than a Mac, since I am used to Windows and not a former Mac user this is not a big dilemma for me compared to people who are already used to a Mac.
And yes I am also one of these stupid dumbasses which pays 200 dollar/euro more for a laptop that looks more fancy but has the same specifications as a plastic alternative.
So be it.
F
Frozo.
Guest
I'm really interested in getting a MBP 15" and I was going to get one soon but heard about that they are get refreshed so is it worth waiting on the new models?
Also if you don't live in the US can you still buy from the US Apple Store?
Thanks
Also if you don't live in the US can you still buy from the US Apple Store?
Thanks
F
Frozo.
Guest
Damn, I've just looked on the US website and it does say that if someone lives in the US they can buy it as a gift for someone who doesn't live in the US, and I have some family there so I might see if they can do it for me and I pay them the money, after the refreshed Macs are out
yea you should wait.
just imagine this, you're buying a macbook pro now and 2 weeks later there's a new model, same price, better specs that comes out. believe me you don't want that
and no you can't buy from the US apple store, you have to find a european retailer. Although there are some Apple Stores in Europe.
My guess is that the white macbook gets Sandy Bridge with Intel IGP, and keeps the optical drive.
The 13" gets Sandy Bridge and discrete graphics, but no optical drive.
15" & 17" gets all the goodies, just like last time.
SSD options remain, but HDD standard.
If the air is the future, it makes sense to wean people off the optical drive and hard drives slowly. Start with losing the optical drive in 13 pro, but keep it in the base model macbook. Once the mac app store matures in a year or two, eliminate it across the board. Keep the SSD options in the pro line, and in a year or two make 1tb notebook drives the option, and 256 SSD drives standard (assuming cost fall enough for apple's margins to allow this). Also in about 1-2 years, lightpeak replaces the ethernet and firewire ports, allowing everything to get thinner, just like the air.
The 13" gets Sandy Bridge and discrete graphics, but no optical drive.
15" & 17" gets all the goodies, just like last time.
SSD options remain, but HDD standard.
If the air is the future, it makes sense to wean people off the optical drive and hard drives slowly. Start with losing the optical drive in 13 pro, but keep it in the base model macbook. Once the mac app store matures in a year or two, eliminate it across the board. Keep the SSD options in the pro line, and in a year or two make 1tb notebook drives the option, and 256 SSD drives standard (assuming cost fall enough for apple's margins to allow this). Also in about 1-2 years, lightpeak replaces the ethernet and firewire ports, allowing everything to get thinner, just like the air.
F
Frozo.
Guest
yea you should wait.
just imagine this, you're buying a macbook pro now and 2 weeks later there's a new model, same price, better specs that comes out. believe me you don't want that
and no you can't buy from the US apple store, you have to find a european retailer. Although there are some Apple Stores in Europe.
I'm going to wait
I have family in Canada but unfortunately they don't have the same store :/ and the Gift idea doesn't apply for Canada I don't think
I will have a look at some of the European stores
Very nice post. What you are projecting is exactly what I am hoping for, although I am definitely not counting on it for 2011. Maybe this year, maybe next year or the year after that. But the sooner the better as far as I am concerned.
Your longterm analysis is sound and logical from my point of view. I have been saying similar for a very long time. Many people ask why Apple would keep the 13" Pro around without an optical drive. Discrete graphics and a larger battery would keep me buying indefinitely. I have an 11" Air for untra-portable use (backpack on campus). I would rather have the 13" Pro you describe over a 13" Air any day.
+1...I am hoping for a Sandy Bridge 13" Pro with discrete graphics and optical drive. The Air just doesn't have enough inputs and the performance is not there. It would be a shame for them to get rid of their best seller.
Here's an opinion from some one who is tied to the system (I can use Windows, I prefer not. And my biggest reason to buy an Apple is for Mac OSX).
If they discontinue the MBP and keep the MB (as it is with the white plastic and less ports), I'd probably hold off on buying one.
I got the computer that had me drooling wanting a new one. And guess what, it was mostly the case design that had me drooling. I've wanted it for years but they didn't have enough upgrades in the specs to get me to go ahead and fork the money over. They finally did (and I still took a month justifying it) and I'm happy with it.
If they got rid of that in favor of a form that I already know I dislike (the white plastic case with its easy cracking and, well, white is not a good color to frame a screen with as it dulls the colors on the screen), I have no reason to upgrade *shrug*.
Honestly, it would have to get to the point that my computer was laggy as crap before I'd finally decide to cave.
But Apple sure would miss out on probably more buys from me as I like getting new technology and I don't tend to wait until my computer is *that* slow unless nothing is out that tempts me (and I'm pretty easily tempted). And this would convince me to hold out until my computer was just unbearable vs. Ooh, new shiney computer I want (latter is easy to get me to buy).
Really the only thing I could see that would get me to cave to buying an MB before my computer got unbearably slow is a game coming out that wouldn't run on mine. But you know what? I have a desktop PC that I can just upgrade (or I can put together a really cheap PC for that). The games will be cheaper and from what I understand, windows is better for running games anyways. So, I guess even that wouldn't tempt me to buy an MB.
If they discontinue the MBP and keep the MB (as it is with the white plastic and less ports), I'd probably hold off on buying one.
I got the computer that had me drooling wanting a new one. And guess what, it was mostly the case design that had me drooling. I've wanted it for years but they didn't have enough upgrades in the specs to get me to go ahead and fork the money over. They finally did (and I still took a month justifying it) and I'm happy with it.
If they got rid of that in favor of a form that I already know I dislike (the white plastic case with its easy cracking and, well, white is not a good color to frame a screen with as it dulls the colors on the screen), I have no reason to upgrade *shrug*.
Honestly, it would have to get to the point that my computer was laggy as crap before I'd finally decide to cave.
But Apple sure would miss out on probably more buys from me as I like getting new technology and I don't tend to wait until my computer is *that* slow unless nothing is out that tempts me (and I'm pretty easily tempted). And this would convince me to hold out until my computer was just unbearable vs. Ooh, new shiney computer I want (latter is easy to get me to buy).
Really the only thing I could see that would get me to cave to buying an MB before my computer got unbearably slow is a game coming out that wouldn't run on mine. But you know what? I have a desktop PC that I can just upgrade (or I can put together a really cheap PC for that). The games will be cheaper and from what I understand, windows is better for running games anyways. So, I guess even that wouldn't tempt me to buy an MB.
why is there so much hatred towards the white macbook? I personally prefer it to the MBP :O
what about a black polycarbonate macbook?
maybe they'll dump the 13 pro and make 2 macbook models, white and black, like old times. (they just have to make sure to make many blacks cuz that's what i see selling a lot )
what about a black polycarbonate macbook?
maybe they'll dump the 13 pro and make 2 macbook models, white and black, like old times. (they just have to make sure to make many blacks cuz that's what i see selling a lot )
Walk around a college campus and the 13 MBP dominates within the portable venue. This particular population is way too valuable for Apple to loose to competing hardware and OS. The 13 MBP will be updated in a manner such that it remains competitive, flexible, and stylishly elite yet not so costly as to alienate.
never thought of that, they should merge the macbook and 13" macbook pro's together.
Yeah, they are gonna kill the 17 before the 13; sorry dude. Apple doesn't care what you 'select few' want and neither does any other company that has about $50 billion in cash. And as far as June of 2009 versus now...profits went up a lot on every product they had, including the MBP. Also, they had the MBP13 for years as just the MacBook (same computer, and it was still their top selling laptop).
If companies constantly discontinued their best selling products and then 'assumed' their buyers would purchase another one of their products, then there would not be an Apple today. They had that issue previously and Jobs and his current team (and much so from Mr. Cooke as well) changed that and it went from a near dead company to one of the most profitable in the world.
This is where they would have gone about 15 years ago...
Then why have these people not already bought a computer, and been using it for years? Why can't they buy a MacBook Air? Apple makes computers for the average consumer now. The MBP line should not be gimped so granny doesn't have to spend 3 grand to watch youtube.
With PCs with double the power and screen size being half the cost, how is it not so costly that it alienates? Also, if they dropped the "Pro" branding, how much of a difference would that make to college students looking to buy one?
I guess, personally, it's that whenever I go on about my love of Apple products to friends and family, they assume that I buy the Apple products that I buy because I want to buy into that kind of brand marketing and that I like my Apple products more for form than for function. In actuality, I'm a Mac user because the platform works and makes sense and isn't inconsistent (let alone vulnerable) in the ways that Windows is. I'm an iPod touch owner because, while I like my Motorola Droid and think that Android is a cool platform, the iPod touch is a better portable computer and while it looks nice, I use it for practical reasons rather to be inclusive in "the club". Though, honestly, it's people who buy these things superficially that give Mac users a bad reputation and I suppose I'm hopeful that more people aren't like this, but it's unrealistic.
After watching the WWDC 2009 keynote a bunch, I think they rationalized that while the then-low-end 15" MacBook Pro had the exact same specs as the high-end 13" would-be Pro and had the FireWire port that people were complaining about the loss of. At the time, the 13" Pro was very different than the white MacBook that still used DDR2 RAM. Really, I think they messed it up by making the white MacBook so comparable.
I agree with you there. I don't think the issue of branding has to do with anything other than the fact that Apple will have a much easier time marketing a machine like the 13" Pro in the future were it not a "Pro", for anyone who wants a "Pro" machine, the 15" is the only one that somewhat fits the bill. You disagree and I respect that, so I guess the only constructive thing I can do is just say "we shall see what happens when it happens". I do get the feeling that no matter what they do with the 13" MBP, it'll be very telling.
It did, I was referring to the plastic MacBook before the Early 2009 model.
Yeah, they are gonna kill the 17 before the 13; sorry dude. Apple doesn't care what you 'select few' want and neither does any other company that has about $50 billion in cash. And as far as June of 2009 versus now...profits went up a lot on every product they had, including the MBP. Also, they had the MBP13 for years as just the MacBook (same computer, and it was still their top selling laptop).
If companies constantly discontinued their best selling products and then 'assumed' their buyers would purchase another one of their products, then there would not be an Apple today. They had that issue previously and Jobs and his current team (and much so from Mr. Cooke as well) changed that and it went from a near dead company to one of the most profitable in the world.
This is where they would have gone about 15 years ago...
They are as likely to kill the 17" MacBook Pro as they are the Mac Pro, and really, for the same reasons, neither machine is likely to go anywhere as they have no other machine that does what they do. Between the white MacBook and the 13" Pro, there is a redundancy, save for FireWire (which most consumers looking for a 13" Mac don't even know about) and Aluminum, they are the same computer under the hood. You could kill one, or merge the two with little trouble, if any. As for your claims that they'd be bankrupt, that implies that they were bankrupt before the advent of the 13" Pro, which, I'm sorry, is completely ridiculous.
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Hardly, as they used to have one, before SJ decided that notebooks need to be 1 cm thin, and weigh 1 kg.
Remember the days where they had the iBooks for the consumers, and the Powerbooks for people who wanted a large screen, and powerful insides? What the hell was wrong with that lineup?
Now we've got 13" MBPs which get beaten by Apple's netbooks, the netbooks themselves, and a single white MacBook with no friends. Very messy.
Apple should rename the 13" MBPs to be MacBooks, and scrap the white MB. Then put some decent specs in the 15" and 17", so they are worthy of the "Pro" in their name.
I hope it gets removed. There are three computers that are 13", one of them needs to be removed, and I think the 13" should be it.
I am sure that the people who buy the 13" would complain for a month then move onto the white MB.
As far as the 13" MBP not being 'pro' - it isn't, but the naming works. Think about it, when an average consumer comes into the store (knowing little to nothing about the meaning of technical specifications) and they see two computers: $999 white plastic computer and a $1199 aluminum computer. The $1199 one has 'Pro' written on it and it appears more sturdy. Of course, the consumer is intrigued by the 'Pro' naming and they see - only 200 bucks more! I'm definitely going for that. Boom, Apple just scored 200 bucks.
I am sure that the people who buy the 13" would complain for a month then move onto the white MB.
As far as the 13" MBP not being 'pro' - it isn't, but the naming works. Think about it, when an average consumer comes into the store (knowing little to nothing about the meaning of technical specifications) and they see two computers: $999 white plastic computer and a $1199 aluminum computer. The $1199 one has 'Pro' written on it and it appears more sturdy. Of course, the consumer is intrigued by the 'Pro' naming and they see - only 200 bucks more! I'm definitely going for that. Boom, Apple just scored 200 bucks.
It's one thing if you're paying $100 more for a prettier computer. And again, were it between the two, I'd go Pro too, though only for the FireWire port. But back to the point, you're paying $100 more for the prettier computer, but also saying that if the prettier computer disappears, you won't buy Apple at all and will seek a similar type of machine for way more than $100 cheaper. Given that, it's safe to say that you're not just spending $100 on the prettier Mac, but $500 to $600 more on a computer because it looks nice, implying that you'd rather go PC than go with a cheaper Mac. Do you realize how fundamentally superficial and stupid that is? I mean, more power to you, I just find that sort of thing in people to be utterly disgusting. Not to say that I'd find you disgusting, I'll bet you're a charming person aside from your choice of computer.
Man, and all this time, I thought I was the presumptuous loudmouth spouting off things based on no evidence or logic whatsoever and that were just as much speculation as the next guy as though the next guy was wrong and didn't know what he was talking about. Way to totally steal my title!