Regarding this 'who is the iPad Pro for' question...

[Eric5273]

I just don't understand the point of this whole argument. If you don't like the iPad Pro, don't buy one. Obviously there are some of us (me included) who like it. For some people, it is just a companion device, and for others it can do enough to be our primary computer. Why does that seem to annoy some people?

For me, ever since the Crunchpad was announced about 7 years ago (anyone remember that??), I have been looking forward to a day when I could replace my computer with a portable and light touch screen device. When the first iPad came out, I really wanted to like it, but you still needed a PC to transfer files to it, to sync it, and to do software updates.

Then when iCloud came out and they made it possible to do updates right on the iPad itself, I started to think perhaps a time had arrived when it could replace my computer, but the one issue I still had was no ability to multitask. So then they introduced multitasking, but it wasn't real multitasking, until now when we can do split screen and PiP.

So finally now I can indeed replace my computer with an iPad. Can it do everything a PC or Mac can do? Of course not. Can it do everything I use a PC or Mac to do? Yes! For others, maybe not. Do I lose sleep at night over that? No!

 

[CandyNJ66]

Walked out of the Verizon store today with my brand new iPad Pro and I'm loving it even more than when I had an iPad Air 2. I'm a huge movie/YouTube watcher, so Netflix, Amazon Prime, Xfinity Go, Playbox HD and Moviebox HD look fantastic and sound super thanks to those 4 speakers. Games are more fun too!!

The iPP is definitely for me

 

[Smeaton1724]

To those saying people are 'Not using it for real work'. Your own opinion masquerading as fact....

We have 6 in use on a reasonable size construction project in the north of England, we mark up the RC drawings where we have discrepancies/issues, we mark up standard drawings where we have additional questions. We sync markups to a server using goodreader. The iPad Air 'could' do it with some limitations, Pencil by fiftythree just isn't as good a stylus as an Apple pencil and the screen real estate is perfect for highly detailed drawings and even though we zoom it is nowhere near as much as on the iPad Air 2 when we tried that.

Our process is streamlined, easily implmented and better because of the iPad Pro. Finding a rugged case has been the only limitation so far!

Take my above example, what we used to do before the iPad Pro was use the markup tools in Adobe PDF reader, it was clunky and not as natural or fast. Also we didn't walk around with the laptops, so often would take photos when at the place of work or do sketches. When we returned to the cabin we would mark up the pdf using Adobe PDF tools.

Edit: Also need to add these devices all use Vodafone 4G, we also use the pencil for making notes in meetings. Generally we get between 7 1/2 to 10 hours depending on the usage, uploading and downloading 100mb PDFs does sap the battery somewhat. Taking notes in a 6 hour long meeting I still had 30% left, including the occasional plug in of the pencil, with emails set to be checked every 30 minutes across 4 accounts.

Personally I feel the iPad Pro is having the same issues the original iPad suffered, perception, 'it is just a large iPod touch' people cried online. Does a blogger need an iPad pro, probably not, does a coder need one, again probably not, can you create building plans on one and render the 3D model - no. However a teacher might like one, an artist, a site based engineer (we do), a surveyor, a musician and a doctor could use one. So those saying the device is rubbish, get some perspective, because there's a fair few industries this device is helping on a daily basis.

 

[cardfan]

No, not for many. Just for YOU. Despite reports of the IPP outselling the Surface over the holiday, and despite the happy customers on this forum, you still claim it's a failure?
I know many, many people who use their iPads everyday for "real" work, as well as fun. If your iPads are "collecting dust", then clearly THIS IS NOT THE PRODUCT FOR YOU. No reason to hate on it.
Be happy with your MacBooks. The rest of us will do just fine.

I never said ipads are a failure. I only said introducing a higher priced ipad aimed at a niche of users isn't going to reverse any sales trend.

However it does give some hope that Apple will be more serious about iOS and ipads. And software and services such as icloud.

Wasn't it Jobs who said an ipad fits between a smartphone and laptop and must excel at doing 7 things very well? The categories he listed were email, games, music, ebooks, browsing, and whatever else. BTW...he was great at events because he recognized these events basically told the media how to explain or market their products. The fact that the usual idiot reviewers didn't know how to review the ipad pro only highlights Apple's failure to explain or define this ipad to them.

There's a few things, if added, would add tremendous ability to using an ipad. Being able to hook up an external storage device and having an files.app would go a long way.

Usually those that aren't very techie start having most of their problems down the line with an iOS device, not initially. What kind of problems? Messages pop up that you haven't backed up your ipad (mostly because you've gone beyond your pathetic 5gb icloud limitation). This message usually goes ignored. Photos accumulate on the device. Storage space starts to get eaten up by misc. These people don't plug their devices into their PC's anymore and as a result, don't have a clue what to do.

IMO, this issue and similar is what causes the mainstream user to not want to go blow 829 again on an ipad. While solving some complex usability issues they have with operating PCs, it introduced new ones such as simply managing storage and media. I won't even go into 4k video but it's a good thing that isn't the default setting on an iOS device.

Paying for icloud storage might be an answer but many balk at that. Plus it's only a half baked solution for one person. It's hardly a solution for a family with multiple devices.

 

[Smeaton1724]

I never said ipads are a failure. I only said introducing a higher priced ipad aimed at a niche of users isn't going to reverse any sales trend.

However it does give some hope that Apple will be more serious about iOS and ipads. And software and services such as icloud.

Wasn't it Jobs who said an ipad fits between a smartphone and laptop and must excel at doing 7 things very well? The categories he listed were email, games, music, ebooks, browsing, and whatever else. BTW...he was great at events because he recognized these events basically told the media how to explain or market their products. The fact that the usual idiot reviewers didn't know how to review the ipad pro only highlights Apple's failure to explain or define this ipad to them.

There's a few things, if added, would add tremendous ability to using an ipad. Being able to hook up an external storage device and having an files.app would go a long way.

Usually those that aren't very techie start having most of their problems down the line with an iOS device, not initially. What kind of problems? Messages pop up that you haven't backed up your ipad (mostly because you've gone beyond your pathetic 5gb icloud limitation). This message usually goes ignored. Photos accumulate on the device. Storage space starts to get eaten up by misc. These people don't plug their devices into their PC's anymore and as a result, don't have a clue what to do.

IMO, this issue and similar is what causes the mainstream user to not want to go blow 829 again on an ipad. While solving some complex usability issues they have with operating PCs, it introduced new ones such as simply managing storage and media. I won't even go into 4k video but it's a good thing that isn't the default setting on an iOS device.

Paying for icloud storage might be an answer but many balk at that. Plus it's only a half baked solution for one person. It's hardly a solution for a family with multiple devices.

Very true post, Apple miss Steve when new products are introduced, he had such a way of explaining why the product existed and the effort that they made to make the product. Tim Cook just does not have that, he states how awesome the product is but does not make a case for the existence in the same way Steve did. Tim Cook is strong at numbers, the issue being that is a cold world when buzz around a product is missing.

Reviewers always used to compare their own testing experiences versus what Steve said and try to prove him wrong, never did he say an iPhone/iPad or iPod do something it couldn't, as such how can reviews be negative?! He stated what it could do and the product did it. Take those 7 points with the iPad, reviewers use those metrics on all tablets (whether they are obvious metrics or not he defined the purpose), that is why the iPad Pro is getting slated as out of those 7, the iPad Pro probably does 5 well, similar to a laptop but with tablet limitations.

As for services, well there was the mobileme and icloud issues and the Apple Maps issues, which Apple was slated in the media and by users, rightly so. The same is occurring with the iPad Pro, Apple software should be optimum for every device they sell, before launch.

 

[spiderman0616]

Very true post, Apple miss Steve when new products are introduced, he had such a way of explaining why the product existed and the effort that they made to make the product. Tim Cook just does not have that, he states how awesome the product is but does not make a case for the existence in the same way Steve did. Tim Cook is strong at numbers, the issue being that is a cold world when buzz around a product is missing.

Reviewers always used to compare their own testing experiences versus what Steve said and try to prove him wrong, never did he say an iPhone/iPad or iPod do something it couldn't, as such how can reviews be negative?! He stated what it could do and the product did it. Take those 7 points with the iPad, reviewers use those metrics on all tablets (whether they are obvious metrics or not he defined the purpose), that is why the iPad Pro is getting slated as out of those 7, the iPad Pro probably does 5 well, similar to a laptop but with tablet limitations.

As for services, well there was the mobileme and icloud issues and the Apple Maps issues, which Apple was slated in the media and by users, rightly so. The same is occurring with the iPad Pro, Apple software should be optimum for every device they sell, before launch.

Steve Jobs is dead. He's been dead for years now. Let the guy be dead. Apple is too busy running their business to constantly drag his corpse out into every product launch and discussion. The smartphone market would have reached saturation with Steve Jobs or without him. The iPad would have slowed in growth with Steve Jobs or without him. There would be software glitches and bugs to fix with Steve Jobs or without him. I can't believe we're still having to remind people of this in 2015, but here we are.

Apple is now without Steve Jobs. You know who else is without him? Every other tech company out there. At least Apple has the benefit of having been designed, built, and run by Steve Jobs and working with him side by side for many years. Steve Jobs put Tim Cook in charge of the company for a reason, and he worked with Tim Cook for long enough to know that he was a good person for the job. Tim Cook can't possibly run the company like Steve Jobs did because he's not Steve Jobs. He's Tim Cook.

And you point about not telling people the iPad could do things it can't? Nobody from Apple did that. You may have put that expectation on the iPad Pro, but that's your own fault. Tim Cook said that the iPad Pro would be a laptop replacement "for many", not "for everybody". If Apple believed what you're saying, they would have pulled the Mac off the market by now.

 

[Night Spring]

Apple miss Steve when new products are introduced, he had such a way of explaining why the product existed and the effort that they made to make the product.

Steve Jobs put Tim Cook in charge of the company for a reason, and he worked with Tim Cook for long enough to know that he was a good person for the job. Tim Cook can't possibly run the company like Steve Jobs did because he's not Steve Jobs. He's Tim Cook.

I agree that Apple is in good hands with Tim Cook, but I do miss Steve Jobs, especially his presentations. He did have such a way of explaining the whys and hows of a product. I remember when he introduced the Smart Cover. "We built this beautiful device, but when we did a case for it, it covered it up! So we asked if there was a way to prop it up without covering it up. And the answer was -- magnets!"

I think Tim Cook and all the other execs are doing a stellar job, and Apple continues to produce innovative, well-designed products that are a pleasure to use. And yes, iPad sales would probably have gone down even with Steve Jobs. But I do wonder what it would have been like if Steve Jobs were here to introduce the iPad Pro and the Apple Watch. I miss him, and I think Apple misses him, even though they are doing a find job without him.

 

[Ghost31]

I agree that Apple is in good hands with Tim Cook, but I do miss Steve Jobs, especially his presentations. He did have such a way of explaining the whys and hows of a product. I remember when he introduced the Smart Cover. "We built this beautiful device, but when we did a case for it, it covered it up! So we asked if there was a way to prop it up without covering it up. And the answer was -- magnets!"

.

This is what I miss about Steve Jobs and exactly what I've complained about at the iPad pro and Apple Watch keynotes. Steve jobs would go on to explain and make the case for exactly WHY you need this product in your life. To convince you that there has been this void in your life and this new product can fill it and its implementation is simply magical. The Apple Watch keynote? Was anemic. Just Tim Cook without any enthusiasm saying "well it can give you notifications". Ok? And? What will it do for me? Why should I buy it? I was yelling at the tv at the time "Come on man. Sell me on this product!"

Same for iPad pro. I remember an interview where Eddie Cue said something like "it's great. I can read my email on it and it looks great". So...I can do I that on my iPad Air. Why is the pro better? Ugh...

Same with Apple Pay when it was introduced. When Tim did it, it was just sold as "it's cool and easy to use". If Steve did it, it would be about how there are security threats everyday and they only get worse as time goes on. And that we need a way to make our transactions more secure because our privacy is becoming an ongoing problem. He would have scared us and made us look at the fact that we didn't use Apple Pay as a big security loophole. Maybe even thrown out statistics about identity theft and stuff. He was amazing with his words. It's why people coined "The reality distortion field". He could convince you of anything. He was absolutely brilliant.

Earlier today I watched this and thought I would share. I don't know how anyone could watch this and not feel this man is a complete visionary who knew what he was doing. He knew the market

 

[Smeaton1724]

Steve Jobs is dead. He's been dead for years now. Let the guy be dead. Apple is too busy running their business to constantly drag his corpse out into every product launch and discussion. The smartphone market would have reached saturation with Steve Jobs or without him. The iPad would have slowed in growth with Steve Jobs or without him. There would be software glitches and bugs to fix with Steve Jobs or without him. I can't believe we're still having to remind people of this in 2015, but here we are.

Apple is now without Steve Jobs. You know who else is without him? Every other tech company out there. At least Apple has the benefit of having been designed, built, and run by Steve Jobs and working with him side by side for many years. Steve Jobs put Tim Cook in charge of the company for a reason, and he worked with Tim Cook for long enough to know that he was a good person for the job. Tim Cook can't possibly run the company like Steve Jobs did because he's not Steve Jobs. He's Tim Cook.

And you point about not telling people the iPad could do things it can't? Nobody from Apple did that. You may have put that expectation on the iPad Pro, but that's your own fault. Tim Cook said that the iPad Pro would be a laptop replacement "for many", not "for everybody". If Apple believed what you're saying, they would have pulled the Mac off the market by now.

You totally missed the point of my comment. It wasn't a call for a jobs return (!!) it was clearly stating his presentation style and what they miss. Pulled the Mac....Where did that come from?! In no way did I state the Mac needed to be replaced by iPads.

I am referring to the way Steve Jobs introduced products, he defined why you needed them. He made the argument to buy compelling, and yes just like every tech company now Apple does not have Steve Jobs and just like every tech company they appear to struggle at explaining the purpose of their product. Now we appear to have this "We made a thing and it's the usual Apple Magic, buy it", well ok Tim and Eddie but can we have better reasons please, make the argument compelling, saying "it replaces the PC for many" explains and advertises nothing.

Whether Steve was here or not surely they can take some cues from his keynotes and realise why a part of their success came from defining what a product did out loud, rather than meaningless sound bites.
[doublepost=1455006006][/doublepost]

This is what I miss about Steve Jobs and exactly what I've complained about at the iPad pro and Apple Watch keynotes. Steve jobs would go on to explain and make the case for exactly WHY you need this product in your life. To convince you that there has been this void in your life and this new product can fill it and its implementation is simply magical. The Apple Watch keynote? Was anemic. Just Tim Cook without any enthusiasm saying "well it can give you notifications". Ok? And? What will it do for me? Why should I buy it? I was yelling at the tv at the time "Come on man. Sell me on this product!"

Same for iPad pro. I remember an interview where Eddie Cue said something like "it's great. I can read my email on it and it looks great". So...I can do I that on my iPad Air. Why is the pro better? Ugh...

Same with Apple Pay when it was introduced. When Tim did it, it was just sold as "it's cool and easy to use". If Steve did it, it would be about how there are security threats everyday and they only get worse as time goes on. And that we need a way to make our transactions more secure because our privacy is becoming an ongoing problem. He would have scared us and made us look at the fact that we didn't use Apple Pay as a big security loophole. Maybe even thrown out statistics about identity theft and stuff. He was amazing with his words. It's why people coined "The reality distortion field". He could convince you of anything. He was absolutely brilliant.

Earlier today I watched this and thought I would share. I don't know how anyone could watch this and not feel this man is a complete visionary who knew what he was doing. He knew the market

Exactly! He states his products strengths and openly criticises his opponents weakness.

 

[upritbass]

Steve Jobs was an artist. When people try to imitate his style when making a presentation, it comes across as -- a Steve imitation. It just falls flat.

Cook isn't Steve, but he's made Apple the most valuable company on the planet. Ever. He must be doing something right.

 

[Timmy D]

Last week I received an 128GB iPP. Over the weekend I sold my 128GB iPad Air 2 & the 2012 15" rMBP with 16GB of RAM. This iPP is big, maybe too big for what I used my iPad for, up to now. That use was mostly for reading books, comics and writing. I was using every note app imaginable as well as every stylus and became very frustrated with the lack of ablitity to write neatly and legibly. I have to say that so far the Apple pencil feels like writing on paper. There isn't any lag, at the moment. So, I am happy with the iPP replacing my iPad Air 2. Now, getting use to not having the MacBook Pro is another story. At the moment I haven't really sat down to do my daily tasks that I would with the MacBook, such as CAD and spreadsheet work. I will say that I do enjoy the AutoCAD app much better on the iPP then on the iPad Air. One reason I sold the MacBook was to purchase a new one down the road, so in the meantime I will see for myself if this iPP will replace that future MacBook. Currently, I am happy with the iPP and having a little anxiety about not having the laptop haha

 

[prospervic]

... those that aren't very techie start having most of their problems down the line with an iOS device, not initially. What kind of problems? Messages pop up that you haven't backed up your ipad (mostly because you've gone beyond your pathetic 5gb icloud limitation). This message usually goes ignored. Photos accumulate on the device. Storage space starts to get eaten up by misc. These people don't plug their devices into their PC's anymore and as a result, don't have a clue what to do.

This is not all IOS's fault. Non-techie people have these sorts of problems on any device. I'm always having to help people out of the messes they've made on their Macs (and don't even get me started on Windows).

You can make an operating system only so simple without locking it down to the point of limited usability. Apple does a pretty decent job of explaining things to customers in its own stores. The problem is that so many buyers go to third-party retailers, most of whom don't give a crap about the customer's user experience.

 

[rowspaxe]

The Apple Watch keynote? Was anemic. Just Tim Cook without any enthusiasm saying "well it can give you notifications". Ok? And? What will it do for me?

In fairness, even Steve couldn't sell the watch, smart watches are very niche

 

[Robnsn2015]

Smart watches are niche, they're an accessory, and Apple Watch is most likely going to add billions to Apple's revenues.

 

[Ghost31]

In fairness, even Steve couldn't sell the watch, smart watches are very niche

Watches in general are pretty niche. When in today's world you can just check your phone for the time, who needs a watch? Considering how niche this market is, I think Apple has blown away expectations with how many smart watches they've sold. I have one and like it, but it feels very gen 1 to me.

It'll be interesting to see how the watch can grow over time. The phone's grown so much in all these years. How much can a watch really improve?

 

[Robnsn2015]

Watches in general are pretty niche. When in today's world you can just check your phone for the time, who needs a watch? Considering how niche this market is, I think Apple has blown away expectations with how many smart watches they've sold. I have one and like it, but it feels very gen 1 to me.

It'll be interesting to see how the watch can grow over time. The phone's grown so much in all these years. How much can a watch really improve?

The Apple Watch will improve substantially when Apple is able to add GPS and cellular options. At the very least, it could make the iPod obsolete once and for all. Imagine being able to go jogging with just an Apple Watch and some Bluetooth headphones.

 

[Ghost31]

The Apple Watch will improve substantially when Apple is able to add GPS and cellular options. At the very least, it could make the iPod obsolete once and for all. Imagine being able to go jogging with just an Apple Watch and some Bluetooth headphones.

How would cellular tech work in a watch? I remember hearing about the Samsung watches that do this and they are basically their own cell phone with their own line of service. Nobody wants to add a line just for their watch.

 

[Smeaton1724]

The Apple Watch will improve substantially when Apple is able to add GPS and cellular options. At the very least, it could make the iPod obsolete once and for all. Imagine being able to go jogging with just an Apple Watch and some Bluetooth headphones.

That can be done now but not in the most user friendly fashion. I just wish the watch did on the fly iTunes syncing, rather than going through the iPhone.

 

[sinsin07]

This is what I miss about Steve Jobs and exactly what I've complained about at the iPad pro and Apple Watch keynotes. Steve jobs would go on to explain and make the case for exactly WHY you need this product in your life. To convince you that there has been this void in your life and this new product can fill it and its implementation is simply magical. The Apple Watch keynote? Was anemic. Just Tim Cook without any enthusiasm saying "well it can give you notifications". Ok? And? What will it do for me? Why should I buy it? I was yelling at the tv at the time "Come on man. Sell me on this product!"

Same for iPad pro. I remember an interview where Eddie Cue said something like "it's great. I can read my email on it and it looks great". So...I can do I that on my iPad Air. Why is the pro better? Ugh...

Same with Apple Pay when it was introduced. When Tim did it, it was just sold as "it's cool and easy to use". If Steve did it, it would be about how there are security threats everyday and they only get worse as time goes on. And that we need a way to make our transactions more secure because our privacy is becoming an ongoing problem. He would have scared us and made us look at the fact that we didn't use Apple Pay as a big security loophole. Maybe even thrown out statistics about identity theft and stuff. He was amazing with his words. It's why people coined "The reality distortion field". He could convince you of anything. He was absolutely brilliant.

Earlier today I watched this and thought I would share. I don't know how anyone could watch this and not feel this man is a complete visionary who knew what he was doing. He knew the market

Man everyone needs to get off this Steve Jobs tip.
If you need or want a company to tell you why you need something then you're just a tool.
This is the very meaning of iSheep with Steve as the former heard master and

 

[cardfan]

In fairness, even Steve couldn't sell the watch, smart watches are very niche

I think they did a poor job selling what the apple watch can do well. Notifications is huge and they did a poor job of elaborating on it and especially not having reminders front and central. Too many are quick to say "my phone does this." Of course it does. But it's not on your wrist all the time, doesn't buzz your wrist, and not ready to view instantly.

Things like it reminds you to walk once in awhile seemed to dominate the reviews.

What has to improve is Siri. It works less than half the time. When it does, it's slow. Having every iOS device respond to "hey siri" seems to be a problem as well. Speaker has to be louder too as I do answer my phone on it a lot.

But bottom line, I think Apple should have simplified it on day one. 3rd party apps that weren't really apps was kind of stupid. Why promote a bad experience when you were obviously going native within a year? The health stuff I still don't want to fool with. Seems like a waste of time. And last but not least, the 10k+ pricing was a major distraction.

 

[Leo90]

I was listening to the latest podcast from Joshua Topolsky (used to be at Engadget and The Verge) who had John Gruber on as his guest. He was going through a litany of things he felt were wrong with Apple products. He mentioned the iPad Pro and said it was a bad product using the argument that he doesn’t’ know who it’s for. Well as an owner of one I could tell him that I love it because of the big, beautiful display which multi-tasking seems to be made for, the super-fast performance, and of course the Apple Pencil. Maybe the iPad Pro is nothing more than a bigger, better iPad. Maybe Apple has more changes to iOS for iPad to take advantage of the bigger display and A9X performance.

It seems to me this question is mostly coming from people whose preference is a laptop/desktop and who know the iPad Pro can’t replace (yet or maybe ever). Apple’s Macs come in different screen sizes, now iPhones do too. I don’t remember seeing these “who is it for” questions when the iPad mini launched. Why does the iPad Pro have to be anything more than the most powerful iPad with a bigger screen? Honestly now that I own one going back to an iPad Air feels incredibly cramped. I don’t think I could go back. When I need to be really mobile and portability is #1 priority I use my phone. When it’s not I’m using my iPad most of the time. Pretty simple really. Why is that a hard concept for some to understand?

I agree in part with you, but the thing is that expectations have to be high for an iPad at that price point. People are asking themselves if it is really an important device for their workflow and if it it is worth the huge amount of money spent on it. I had an iPad Pro and I had an amazing experience, I really enjoyed the device. But in the end, I couldnt justify spending 800 quid on it so I returned it without remorses.

 

[maflynn]

Steve Jobs was an artist. When people try to imitate his style when making a presentation, it comes across as -- a Steve imitation. It just falls flat.

No he wasn't. First and foremost he was a salesmen. He was able to get consumers to buy his products, that's not artistry. He was man who had vision as well, he was able to at the right time pick products and improve on them.

 

[Ghost31]

Man everyone needs to get off this Steve Jobs tip.
If you need or want a company to tell you why you need something then you're just a tool.
This is the very meaning of iSheep with Steve as the former heard master and

Having a stated purpose for a device and actually being able to sell it as something you need in your life is being an iSheep? You sound like something ripped straight out of YouTube comments

 

[sinsin07]

Having a stated purpose for a device and actually being able to sell it as something you need in your life is being an iSheep? You sound like something ripped straight out of YouTube comments

The purpose was stated.
It appears you didn't like the delivery.
You can continue to lament over how SJ would of presented products and wait for him to rise from the grave to "convince you" why you need something in your life, or you can move on ad decide for yourself if a product will be useful to you.

 

[sracer]

No he wasn't. First and foremost he was a salesmen. He was able to get consumers to buy his products, that's not artistry. He was man who had vision as well, he was able to at the right time pick products and improve on them.

I have a new rule of thumb... anyone who evokes the the name of Steve Jobs to "prove" their point will be added to my "Ignore" list. I hope the forum software used by MR uses 64-bit pointers... I have a feeling it will be needed.