Remaining iPad Competitors

[fertilized-egg]

The answer is every other tablet manufacturer including those who haven't yet entered the market.

Such as? I can't think of any worthy major company who hasn't released a tablet yet. Other than Amazon who's this tablet manufacturer that hasn't entered the market yet?

That same business model hasn't taken hold in the tablet market, mainly because carriers' data capacity hasn't caught up with current demand so the incentives are to control rather than increase demand. But if network capacity catches up and surpasses demand, phone carriers may opt to subsidize the purchase of tablets as heavily as they do phones.

I don't think that's the case at all. I think the tablet subsidy failure has little to do with the data capacity and instead:

1) The Carriers simply cannot charge that much monthly for the tablet data fee, which means the amount of subsidy for a tablet is very limited, unlike the monthly phone bill which can get up to $80-100 a month easily.

2) Customers have always bought a phone off their carriers but not a tablet. The carriers found out people don't like buying 3G laptop/netbook off carriers even with subsidy, I don't see the tablet market being any different. When people feel like buying tablets, they go to big box stores or Apple store, not a carrier store.

For the above reasons, I doubt carriers can really make the tablet a big part of their business with subsidy like they with the phones.

 

[techkidd4400]

I think Apple will own the Tablet market for a couple more years. Then, the market will become segmented with niche players stealing market share away from Apple. Lenovo has an interesting upcoming Tablet targeted for business users, for example. I think Apple is doing a fine job pushing back the first round of competitors, but let's face it, these guys just copied Apple's form factor. The real competitors are going to have to do more than copy Apple - and I think they will, which us grwat for consumers. More to come.

 

[jsh1120]

...

I don't think that's the case at all. I think the tablet subsidy failure has little to do with the data capacity and instead:

1) The Carriers simply cannot charge that much monthly for the tablet data fee, which means the amount of subsidy for a tablet is very limited, unlike the monthly phone bill which can get up to $80-100 a month easily.

2) Customers have always bought a phone off their carriers but not a tablet. The carriers found out people don't like buying 3G laptop/netbook off carriers even with subsidy, I don't see the tablet market being any different. When people feel like buying tablets, they go to big box stores or Apple store, not a carrier store.

For the above reasons, I doubt carriers can really make the tablet a big part of their business with subsidy like they with the phones.

Uh, do you have any evidence that "people don't like buying 3G laptop/netbook off carriers?" If so, I'm sure Verizon and AT&T would like to talk to you in the hope of increasing their sales. Might take awhile to get back to you, though. They're busy restocking the shelves in their stores with iPads.

The carriers don't fail to subsidize the purchase of iPads because they can't afford to. They don't do it because Apple won't allow them to do so. Apple doesn't allow any of their hardware to be discounted to any significant degree. If Verizon and AT&T want to sell iPads (and they obviously do), they have to sell them at the same price as every other retailer.

And in case you haven't noticed, the price of data plans have increased tremendously over the last 12-18 months. The increases have been disguised to some extent by cost shifting to the heaviest users but so far, at least, there is very little consumer price resistance to data plans even when wifi connectivity is a simple alternative.

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I think Apple will own the Tablet market for a couple more years. Then, the market will become segmented with niche players stealing market share away from Apple. Lenovo has an interesting upcoming Tablet targeted for business users, for example. I think Apple is doing a fine job pushing back the first round of competitors, but let's face it, these guys just copied Apple's form factor. The real competitors are going to have to do more than copy Apple - and I think they will, which us grwat for consumers. More to come.

Agreed. I'm looking forward to the Lenovo ThinkPad Tablet, as well. (Scheduled to be introduced on 8/23.)

Apart from its more flexible storage options (usb flash drive support), I'll be interested to see how their built-in pressure sensitive stylus performs. If it performs well and the screen image doesn't suffer as a result, it will trump the iPad in one area of functionality where the iPad is weak. Add to that a true Lenovo quality keyboard option at a competitive price and it might well be a winner for business users.

 

[fertilized-egg]

The carriers don't fail to subsidize the purchase of iPads because they can't afford to. They don't do it because Apple won't allow them to do so.

Except the evidence says otherwise. Look at Android tablets. At Verizon, both Xoom and Galaxy Tab carry $170 subsidy ($700 -> $530, $670 -> 500) which is considerably less than the subsidy for the top smartphones, and when you think about the lower ARPU, it's clear why.

Uh, do you have any evidence that "people don't like buying 3G laptop/netbook off carriers?" If so, I'm sure Verizon and AT&T would like to talk to you in the hope of increasing their sales. Might take awhile to get back to you, though. They're busy restocking the shelves in their stores with iPads.

Where did I say they are having trouble selling off iPad? Obviously iPad is wildly successful. I'm talking about the non-iPad non-smartphone devices, such as 3G netbooks being sold off carrier stores. Are you saying that people prefer to buy tablets and, especially, netbooks from the carrier stores over Best Buy, etc?

 

[jsh1120]

Except the evidence says otherwise. Look at Android tablets. At Verizon, both Xoom and Galaxy Tab carry $170 subsidy ($700 -> $530, $670 -> 500) which is considerably less than the subsidy for the top smartphones, and when you think about the lower ARPU, it's clear why.



Where did I say they are having trouble selling off iPad? Obviously iPad is wildly successful. I'm talking about the non-iPad non-smartphone devices, such as 3G netbooks being sold off carrier stores. Are you saying that people prefer to buy tablets and, especially, netbooks from the carrier stores over Best Buy, etc?

Sorry, but now I'm confused. I pointed out that carriers don't subsidize the purchase of tablets to the extent they have for phones and you point out that the same thing and say the "evidence says otherwise." ?

As for the second point, I simply asked if you had any evidence of consumer resistance to purchasing tablets (any tablet) from a carrier. So far you haven't produced any and instead asked if I'm saying that consumers prefer to buy tablets and netbooks from carriers rather than from Best Buy. I implied no such thing.

What I would have said was that almost two years ago I purchased an 11" netbook from Verizon for $99 with a two year contract. (Two gigs of memory, 160 gig hard disk, Windows7 Home Premium, and built-in 3G modem.)

The retail price of the netbook from HP or a brick and mortar retailer was over $600. And even then I would have had to purchase a 3G modem separately to get the same functionality. You can be sure I would prefer to purchase that netbook from Verizon than from Best Buy. Not because I "like" Verizon more than Best Buy but because any rational consumer who can save over $500 would do the same.

Apply that same subsidy model to tablets and consumers will respond.

 

[fertilized-egg]

Sorry, but now I'm confused. I pointed out that carriers don't subsidize the purchase of tablets to the extent they have for phones and you point out that the same thing and say the "evidence says otherwise." ?

No you're confusing two things. Subsiding tablets doesn't equal subsidizing iPads. You've said the carriers don't subsidize the iPad because of Apple's pricing policy whereas I was talking about the fact the ARPU from tablet is lower than the phones per subscriber.

As for the second point, I simply asked if you had any evidence of consumer resistance to purchasing tablets (any tablet) from a carrier.
..
What I would have said was that almost two years ago I purchased an 11" netbook from Verizon for $99 with a two year contract.
...

The retail price of the netbook from HP or a brick and mortar retailer was over $600.
...
Apply that same subsidy model to tablets and consumers will respond.

That subsidy was a $500 according to your anecdotal story, which simply isn't sustainable unless there's a firesale going for the netbook and an exception rather than the norm. How can carriers "apply that same subsidy model" when right now they cannot afford giving more subsidy for tablets and the ARPU is lower for the tablet plans?

Here are the Verizon Netbooks:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...=viewPhoneOverviewByDevice&deviceCategoryId=7

and the subsidy is exactly the same as tablets, $170.

 

[hcho3]

Apple is going to continue to dominate tablet market for a long time. This thing will be just like iPod in terms of market share.

No way that apple will be able to maintain the current status, but they will keep the high market share for a long long time.

HP is out.

Blackberry Playbook just sucks.

Samsung Galaxy Tab is just stabbed with sue. And their sales are so bad that best buy and Samsung are trying to make people buy HDTV with free Tab. Nope... not going to work.

Eventually, I see galaxy Tab will be sold as low as 299 dollars or even lower. I might pick this boy up on Black Friday.

 

[radiogoober]

Yup ^^^ Galaxy Tab is crap. They can't sell them so they have to give them away with HDTVs. That's some ****** LOL!! It's insane how no one else on the entire planet Earth can compete with Apple in the tablet game. All of these tech companies that have been around forever can't make a single decent product.

 

[jsh1120]

No you're confusing two things. Subsiding tablets doesn't equal subsidizing iPads. You've said the carriers don't subsidize the iPad because of Apple's pricing policy whereas I was talking about the fact the ARPU from tablet is lower than the phones per subscriber.



That subsidy was a $500 according to your anecdotal story, which simply isn't sustainable unless there's a firesale going for the netbook and an exception rather than the norm. How can carriers "apply that same subsidy model" when right now they cannot afford giving more subsidy for tablets and the ARPU is lower for the tablet plans?

Here are the Verizon Netbooks:

http://www.verizonwireless.com/b2c/...=viewPhoneOverviewByDevice&deviceCategoryId=7

and the subsidy is exactly the same as tablets, $170.

You're the one that brought up netbooks. Check your post. As for a fire sale, it went on for about a year. Slow burning fire.

 

[techkidd4400]

Yup ^^^ Galaxy Tab is crap. They can't sell them so they have to give them away with HDTVs. That's some ****** LOL!! It's insane how no one else on the entire planet Earth can compete with Apple in the tablet game. All of these tech companies that have been around forever can't make a single decent product.

I think they can make a decent product, but very few hardware tech companies are genuine innovators. Apple has a key advantage because they try to innovate. Let's hope we see a few interesting Tablets from Sony, Lenovo, or someone because competition is better (and more interesting) than a monopoly.

 

[NoStopN]

Furthermore, your $499 example for an iPad is faulty. As far as tethering is concerned, that's not a free option for most consumers. (Please don't tell me about jailbreaking; it's not an option for the average consumer and carriers are cracking down on unauthorized tethering.) Tethering is not a month-to-month option; it's an extra $480 on a two year contract.

I'm afraid your facts are incorrect. As far as tethering is concerned, it currently is about as useless as a data plan for a tablet. Right now, most (if not, all) of the US cell carriers have limited data for tethering. AT&T will add 2GB to the 2GB plan that you are required to carry if you decide to tether. Verizon however only allows new subscribers 2GB & that's it. But, not every consumer has their head buried in the sand & just wanders in to a cell phone store to buy a tablet. I gave up my iPhone earlier this year to get an Android phone on Verizon's 4G LTE. At the time, VZW was giving the mobile hotspot/tehtering as a freebie. Then, when they started to charge those early adopters, they were allowed to keep their unlimited phone plan (grandfathered in) & given an unlimited tehtering/mobile hotspot plan that they don't offer to new subscribers. While this doesn't help new customers, it shows that if you get the right plan, tethering your phone to a wifi only tablet is substantially a better idea than a separate tablet data plan.

 

[greygray]

Yup ^^^ Galaxy Tab is crap. They can't sell them so they have to give them away with HDTVs. That's some ****** LOL!! It's insane how no one else on the entire planet Earth can compete with Apple in the tablet game. All of these tech companies that have been around forever can't make a single decent product.

It's more of a marketing strategy I would say, rather than call it crap straight away IMO! It's still among one of the more successful and worthy iPad competitors out there. Using 'all' and 'entire planet earth' makes you sound like a fanboy by the way...

 

[swy05]

It's more of a marketing strategy I would say, rather than call it crap straight away IMO! It's still among one of the more successful and worthy iPad competitors out there. Using 'all' and 'entire planet earth' makes you sound like a fanboy by the way...

Sound like?

He is the biggest apple fanboy.

Search every single post he's made. The way he talks about apple, you would think he's Steve jobs.

I repeat, do a search on posts by his name.

He'll make posts and create entire threads like he's the owner of apple. It's kind of pathetic honestly.

 

[radiogoober]

It's more of a marketing strategy I would say, rather than call it crap straight away IMO! It's still among one of the more successful and worthy iPad competitors out there. Using 'all' and 'entire planet earth' makes you sound like a fanboy by the way...

Fact: no tablet on earth is any real competition to the iPad.

The TouchPad did so amazingly fantastic that it caused HP to completely abandon the tablet market. The Galaxy Tab did so amazingly well that Samsung gives it away for free if you buy a TV. Roflmao.

 

[palpatine]

Fact: no tablet on earth is any real competition to the iPad.

that's why apple never mentions them in presentations as their competitors. heck, they're just suing samsung over the principle of the thing, and they have no interest at all in torpedoing their product rollouts, because they aren't even competition. now that apple has cornered the market on earth, i expect them to patent the moon, because who can stop a company that can do no wrong?

The TouchPad did so amazingly fantastic that it caused HP to completely abandon the tablet market. The Galaxy Tab did so amazingly well that Samsung gives it away for free if you buy a TV. Roflmao.

yeah, after ford made the edsel they went bankrupt and we have all forgotten about them. same thing with that kindle ereader that steve jobs ridiculed. lol. no one sees those artifacts anymore. jobs is always right, the ipad always wins, and now the consumers can finally relax knowing that folders can only contain 12 items. perfection.

 

[radiogoober]

I see hyperbole and sarcasm, but nothing of substance.

 

[jsh1120]

I'm afraid your facts are incorrect. As far as tethering is concerned, it currently is about as useless as a data plan for a tablet. ... While this doesn't help new customers, it shows that if you get the right plan, tethering your phone to a wifi only tablet is substantially a better idea than a separate tablet data plan.

Uh, as far as I can tell your example of "the right plan" is to already have been grandfathered in to an unlimited data plan no longer available. This is roughly equivalent to the somewhat limited value of advice to succeed in life by choosing the right parents.

 

[DeathChill]

Just in case you guys did not know, there are countries outside the US and many (such as Canada!) have free tethering with data plans.

 

[palpatine]

I see hyperbole and sarcasm, but nothing of substance.

indeed. and, i see hyperbole and fanboism, but nothing of substance in your posts. there are plenty of ipad competitors if you take off your apple colored glasses and look. you don't have to be a monolithic ipad killer to be a competitor. asus is selling several hundred thousand a month. somewhere, someone is buying them. and, that is a good thing for all of us.

 

[jca24]

I said it in another thread, no one will ever catch up to Apple, whether its a tablet or phone. It's all about the ecosystem, it can't be duplicated!

HP-we saw what happened there
Android-too many hands in the cookie jar
RIM-on the downhill slide fast, will never recover
Windows-really? c'mon

 

[kalex]

I said it in another thread, no one will ever catch up to Apple, whether its a tablet or phone. It's all about the ecosystem, it can't be duplicated!

HP-we saw what happened there
Android-too many hands in the cookie jar
RIM-on the downhill slide fast, will never recover
Windows-really? c'mon

Never say never

 

[4DThinker]

I said it in another thread, no one will ever catch up to Apple, whether its a tablet or phone. It's all about the ecosystem, it can't be duplicated!

Can you spell "Amazon"? It doesn't matter how many threads you say it in, Apple has been caught before. It'll happen again. Over and over. It's the hundreds of Windows PC companies that together outsell OSx on Apple hardware. It's the dozens of android phone makers that outsell iOS on Apple phone hardware. Give it another year, and the dozens of companies making android tablets will outsell the one iOS tablet made by Apple. If there ends up being one company that can outsell apple all by itself it'll be Amazon. Then a year or two later B&N or another surprise entrant will come out with a far better device that outsells even them. Android started with 0% of the tablet market. Now it has over 20%. That's an upward trend. Tick tock.

 

[palpatine]

I love it when people predict the future. Especially when it is one that has never happened before. How many companies do you know that have kept their market dominance in a product category.

Oh yeah. They're everywhere. Sony's still got its Walkman. Windows still has Internet Explorer. IBM still has its computers.

Fanboism is sort of boring guys. Apple is great. So is its iPad. But, you might want to try a tiny bit of objectivity.

 

[jca24]

Can you spell "Amazon"? It doesn't matter how many threads you say it in, Apple has been caught before. It'll happen again. Over and over. It's the hundreds of Windows PC companies that together outsell OSx on Apple hardware. It's the dozens of android phone makers that outsell iOS on Apple phone hardware. Give it another year, and the dozens of companies making android tablets will outsell the one iOS tablet made by Apple. If there ends up being one company that can outsell apple all by itself it'll be Amazon. Then a year or two later B&N or another surprise entrant will come out with a far better device that outsells even them. Android started with 0% of the tablet market. Now it has over 20%. That's an upward trend. Tick tock.

yes I can spell amazon

I go to Best Buy and try the droid tablets, and they feel like a toy. The Best Buy near my house put up a tablet display, with all the different wannabes on it, no one around it, everyone trying to use the 2 ipads on the Apple display. Face it, nobody wants the crap, they will all be $99 on black Friday!

Give me a sales recap in a year.

 

[radiogoober]

indeed. and, i see hyperbole and fanboism, but nothing of substance in your posts. there are plenty of ipad competitors if you take off your apple colored glasses and look. you don't have to be a monolithic ipad killer to be a competitor. asus is selling several hundred thousand a month. somewhere, someone is buying them. and, that is a good thing for all of us.

Can you please post a link to actual sales numbers that clearly show that Asus is *selling* (and not merely shipping to BestBuy) several hundred thousand tablets a month? Also, can you please provide a clear list, backed up with hard sales data (again, not shipping numbers - it doesn't mean anything to have 100,000 tablets sitting on a store shelf), of these "plenty" of iPad competitors? Ie, their names, the tablets, and data showing that they have sold a significant fraction of what the iPad has? I'll be waiting.

Can you spell "Amazon"? It doesn't matter how many threads you say it in, Apple has been caught before. It'll happen again. Over and over. It's the hundreds of Windows PC companies that together outsell OSx on Apple hardware. It's the dozens of android phone makers that outsell iOS on Apple phone hardware. Give it another year, and the dozens of companies making android tablets will outsell the one iOS tablet made by Apple. If there ends up being one company that can outsell apple all by itself it'll be Amazon. Then a year or two later B&N or another surprise entrant will come out with a far better device that outsells even them. Android started with 0% of the tablet market. Now it has over 20%. That's an upward trend. Tick tock.

Can you spell "pure speculation"?

I do believe that if any company has the ability to make a decent tablet with a decent ecosystem, it's Amazon. But, their only successful tech is the Kindle, which to be honest, was very expensive at first for what it was. The B&N prediction is laughable and makes me think you are just trolling.

Speaking of: why won't you ever answer the questions in the other thread, where you said that the iPad couldn't listen to music and browse the web at the same time and do other multitasking activities. I do not believe you've ever even used an iPad.

Last: Android does not have 20% of the tablet market. There may have been enough Android devices shipped, but still sitting on store shelves, to say there are 1/5 as many Android devices produced as iPads, but that is a meaningless number. What matters is how many people have actually bought the devices. That was the same problem the TouchPad had. People thought it was selling great because it shipped xxxxxx units, but no one actually bought them.

I don't think you actually know anything about the tablet market or iPads at all.