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I'm not sure what your definition of high-end is but most audiophiles don't hook their $1,000 plus (Audeze LCD series, Sennheiser 700 or 800, AKG 812, etc.) cans directly to the iPhone. For one thing, iPhone doesn't have enough power to adequately drive high-end headphones. So the removal of the 3.5mm actually impacts this demographic the least.

Really intensive listening sessions usually take place with a desktop or a laptop, not with an iPhone. The reasons being 1) some DAC/Amp don't come with Lightning cable, 2) people don't like to constantly switch output between iPhone (USB to Lightning) and desktop/laptop (USB Type-A to USB), 3) people don't like to shell out money just to buy a DAC/Amp for iPhone.

For portable listening it's mostly IEM's like the Shure SE846 at ~$1000 and up, way way up, for custom molded units. These require extremely little power, but are very sensitive to noise and prefer a very low ouput impedance. The iPhone has been a perfect match for them, right from the jack, because they are actually one of the few devices, at any price, that can drive sensitive devices like this with zero noise. Hopefully the adapter is up to the same task, without sticking a sub $9 DAC and amp in the way.
 
I'm in little doubt that there will be many different solutions to the issue. I would expect that if Apples included adapter isn't up to scratch, although that remains to be seen (or heard.)

Regardless, there would be nothing preventing a third party from producing a higher quality, low cost adapter of their own. The necessary chips involved aren't particularly expensive as it is, or do you think Apple shells out hundreds of $$ for their audio chipset, no of course not.

Is it going to be a bloody annoyance for some people during this transition phase, of course, transitions always are.
But when push comes to shove, it's happening if we like it or not. By this time next year we'll have moved on and start complaining that we don't like the removal of the home button, or some other nonsense. But in the meantime there's going to be plenty of options to ease people through the transition. Manufacturers aren't going to miss out on a golden egg situation like this, it's the perfect opportunity to make a pile of cash.

I've heard it.

https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...apter-arrives-tomorrow.1995521/#post-23438235

And this is the conclusion from a German blog:

29641769451_3c14275294_o.png
 
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Your argument completely fails when you realise that 1) Apple never claims that iPhone 7 is "waterproof" and 2) you completely misunderstood the point about corrosion.

Why? Because Sony claims their Xperia is "waterproof" when in fact the jack is prone to corrosion. So even though it is "waterproof", the device itself (as the jack is part of the device) degrades after repeated exposure to water.

It's not just one reviewer complaining. I use it merely as an example. I can't possibly cite all the complaints and you should know that. Peace.
[doublepost=1474036653][/doublepost]

Don't buy iPhones then. But mark my words: all Android phone makers will follow suit in 2 years' time.
[doublepost=1474037071][/doublepost]

Ditto. Just want to add that the removal of 3.5 doesn't mean people can't stay wired. People have the choice of using the adapter that comes with iPhone 7 or go for a DAC/Amplifier setup. I truly don't understand what the fuss is all about.
[doublepost=1474037481][/doublepost]

Could you elaborate? There are already ways to get audio signal directly from the Lightning port and ways to hook iPhone to a portable DAC/amplifier.

You are a hard core fanboy and there is no point trying to reason with you

resistance is futile.
[doublepost=1474053517][/doublepost]
Behind the times with technology? I guess the author of this article doesn't know what he's talking about then. And you have a Master degree in Electronics? Fast charge? You mean like the one Samsung's Galaxy Note 7 has? ;) So not having wireless charge capability is behind the times? Maybe it's more like you don't like Apple having chosen to err on the side of prudence? And SD card? I think we're gradually getting a clearer picture as to what demographic misses the 3.5mm jack.


Mark my words, the next iPhone will have a OLED display (probably made from Samsung), as it will probably have a form of fast charge, larger battery and maybe wireless charging. (once the lightning port is updated to support fast charge that is) - in other words it will pack tech that is a few years old, Samsung are already working on foldable displays long ago.

bookmark this and check back in a year.

The iPhone 7 performs well in single core tasks but lets not get carried away, the iOS is far less taxing that the Android OS, it was only when the iPhone 6 was out that Apple had widgets? and with iOS 10 that deleting stock apps was allowed?

basic compared to Android, also the iPhone 7s have much smaller displays than on comparable Android devices (Galaxy S7, Note 7 etc), means the CPU needs to work harder so will impact on performance.

speaking of fast charge, since Qualcomm licence the main fast charge protocol used by most manufacturers and it only works with USB that is probably why Apple have not implemented this.

The latest quick charge 3.0 charges up 4 x faster than conventional methods.

before someone jumps in on the Note 7 battery bandwagon - of course if a battery is incorrectly manufactured in the first place, well then we clearly have a problem that has nothing to do with any fast charge process used and everything to do with QA at Samsung.
 
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Courage would have been to announce that a phone with a pimple for the camera is not visually pleasing. Therefore, they made the entire phone te same thickness, and used to new found space for the 3.5mm jack, the new haptic engine and a bigger battery.
 
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The lightning port is crucial to Apple, i can see them updating this soon across all their next wave of devices and eventually having everything connect to that socket.

Its like buying a printer, all the money goes into cartridges, with a lightning port Apple will have consumers purchase endless accessories for this, either through Apple products or as the result of licence agreements with third parties.
 
No it has nothing to do with water resistance. Apple is company that main goal is to make money. If I buy iPhone and than buy accessories from other company than Apple does not make money of their accessories.

So Apple being smart with the iPhone 7 now will force you to buy their dam earbuds and make more money. And make millions and millions of dollars of those dam earbuds.

It is money making move.
 
so anyway

http://www.theverge.com/2016/9/16/1...lastic-behind-where-headphone-jack-used-to-be

https://www.engadget.com/2016/09/16/iphone-7-teardown-intel-inside/

Apple clearly taking the piss...as most of us here knew

According to Apple, removing the 3.5mm headphone jack allowed Apple to meet the IP7 water resistance threshold, put in a 14% bigger battery on the 4.7-inch model and incorporate more advanced camera technology.


http://bgr.com/2016/09/12/iphone-7-headphone-jack-removal-explanation/
 
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You are a hard core fanboy and there is no point trying to reason with you

resistance is futile.
[doublepost=1474053517][/doublepost]

Most of the passages you quoted weren't even addressed to you.:rolleyes: More like you're a pro-level troll who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is an Apple fanboy. There isn't a thing I said that's factually wrong. You think Android phone makers ≠ corporate greed? They only opt for USB standard because of simple economics: their user base and sales volume aren't large enough for them to go proprietary (and it's not like they haven't tried). Know a little bit of history too: Apple went for Lightning because USB technology couldn't provide the functionalities they were looking for, for example, reversible connection. It's only with the advent of USB-C that reversible connection is possible and it was YEARS behind Lightning in this regard.

Mark my words, the next iPhone will have a OLED display (probably made from Samsung), as it will probably have a form of fast charge, larger battery and maybe wireless charging. (once the lightning port is updated to support fast charge that is) - in other words it will pack tech that is a few years old, Samsung are already working on foldable displays long ago.

It seems that you haven't read the article I provided in my last reply carefully and proof that you're an Android troll. Do you even own an iPhone? First of all, fast charging à la Android phones isn't even a highly requested feature amongst iPhone users. In fact, an iPhone 6s and 6s Plus already has fast charging below 80% of the battery power (I'll leave the googling to you, if you don't mind). The battery on iPhone 6s and 6s Plus is better in that it degrades slower. It's simple lithium physics: fast charging à la Android phones grinds on the battery.

Secondly, larger battery may be needed but smaller battery doesn't mean it's technologically behind, which is your main charge against Apple. The same goes for wireless charging. Not a single phone in the market right now has good wireless charging implementation. The technology itself is finicky at best. So in view of it, how can you say iPhone is technologically behind the times? No, you can't.

Thirdly, OLED is already an old technology. Ironically, it seems what's behind the times is actually your information. Google Micro-LED. It's almost laughable that you think OLED is actually something new that it's some sort of grand prophecy that Apple will use it in the next iteration of iPhone.

If you don't like a "jackless" iPhone. Don't buy it. If you want the kind of fast charge you're talking about, go buy an Android phone. Why are you even hanging around a Mac forum anyway if you love Android so much? Sour grapes much? You are not making anybody here feel bad :( for owning an iPhone. I can tell you that.:cool:
[doublepost=1474068682][/doublepost]
The lightning port is crucial to Apple, i can see them updating this soon across all their next wave of devices and eventually having everything connect to that socket.

Its like buying a printer, all the money goes into cartridges, with a lightning port Apple will have consumers purchase endless accessories for this, either through Apple products or as the result of licence agreements with third parties.

It's not "crucial". Apple can survive without Lightning just as it can survive without Firewire or Thunderbolt and just as it has survived without ADC or AAUI. Lightning won't appear on their desktop and/or laptop line. Your technological acumen is way off. Meanwhile, wireless is the future. I would love to hear what you'll say when headphone jacks start to disappear from Android phones in two years (talk about behind the times).
 
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Most of the passages you quoted weren't even addressed to you.:rolleyes: More like you're a pro-level troll who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is an Apple fanboy. There isn't a thing I said that's factually wrong. You think Android phone makers ≠ corporate greed? They only opt for USB standard because of simple economics: their user base and sales volume aren't large enough for them to go proprietary (and it's not like they haven't tried). Know a little bit of history too: Apple went for Lightning because USB technology couldn't provide the functionalities they were looking for, for example, reversible connection. It's only with the advent of USB-C that reversible connection is possible and it was YEARS behind Lightning in this regard.

It seems that you haven't read the article I provided in my last reply carefully and proof that you're an Android troll. Do you even own an iPhone? First of all, fast charging à la Android phones isn't even a highly requested feature amongst iPhone users. In fact, an iPhone 6s and 6s Plus already has fast charging below 80% of the battery power (I'll leave the googling to you, if you don't mind). The battery on iPhone 6s and 6s Plus is better in that it degrades slower. It's simple lithium physics: fast charging à la Android phones grinds on the battery.

Secondly, larger battery may be needed but smaller battery doesn't mean it's technologically behind, which is your main charge against Apple. The same goes for wireless charging. Not a single phone in the market right now has good wireless charging implementation. The technology itself is finicky at best. So in view of it, how can you say iPhone is technologically behind the times? No, you can't.

Thirdly, OLED is already an old technology. Ironically, it seems what's behind the times is actually your information. Google Micro-LED. It's almost laughable that you think OLED is actually something new that it's some sort of grand prophecy that Apple will use it in the next iteration of iPhone.

If you don't like a "jackless" iPhone. Don't buy it. If you want the kind of fast charge you're talking about, go buy an Android phone. Why are you even hanging around a Mac forum anyway if you love Android so much? Sour grapes much? You aren't not making anybody here feel bad :( for owning an iPhone. I can tell you that.:cool:

No sour grapes, just the harsh truth on iPhones.

They are pretty neat but they certainly are not as good as people make out and alot of their success is due to marketing, you wont get someone buying an Android phone getting whooped and high fived into a store.
They are also over priced but we all know this, aside from Apple fans it seems, I mean common how can you justify the price of a 256GB iPhone 7 plus? $1200......2 x 128GB NAND memory is about $10

Samsung have done plenty of R&D on OLED displays and will launch foldable ones long before Apple, its what they do. Apple are happy to churn out boring devices with photo frame like bezels, at least Samsung have the insight to inspire with edge displays for instance.

And if you understood how fast charging actually worked you might make more sense.

Apple use Qualcomm LTE receivers already so they may well use quick charge 3.0 (if they can get it work with lightning) in the iPhone 8.

leaving Samsung Note 7 out of the equation since they clearly have a battery supplier / QA issue, loads of other manufacturers use Quick Charge 2.0 and soon to be 3.0. The benefits indeed are huge and there are no adverse effects on the battery at all.

'However, traditional battery charging technology does not come close to the full power requirements of today's large batteries. Quick Charge is designed to allow device manufacturers to achieve the full rated capability of the batteries they choose while still meeting the performance and safety standards set by the battery manufacturer.'
[doublepost=1474069157][/doublepost]
Most of the passages you quoted weren't even addressed to you.:rolleyes: More like you're a pro-level troll who thinks everyone who disagrees with you is an Apple fanboy. There isn't a thing I said that's factually wrong. You think Android phone makers ≠ corporate greed? They only opt for USB standard because of simple economics: their user base and sales volume aren't large enough for them to go proprietary (and it's not like they haven't tried). Know a little bit of history too: Apple went for Lightning because USB technology couldn't provide the functionalities they were looking for, for example, reversible connection. It's only with the advent of USB-C that reversible connection is possible and it was YEARS behind Lightning in this regard.



It seems that you haven't read the article I provided in my last reply carefully and proof that you're an Android troll. Do you even own an iPhone? First of all, fast charging à la Android phones isn't even a highly requested feature amongst iPhone users. In fact, an iPhone 6s and 6s Plus already has fast charging below 80% of the battery power (I'll leave the googling to you, if you don't mind). The battery on iPhone 6s and 6s Plus is better in that it degrades slower. It's simple lithium physics: fast charging à la Android phones grinds on the battery.

Secondly, larger battery may be needed but smaller battery doesn't mean it's technologically behind, which is your main charge against Apple. The same goes for wireless charging. Not a single phone in the market right now has good wireless charging implementation. The technology itself is finicky at best. So in view of it, how can you say iPhone is technologically behind the times? No, you can't.

Thirdly, OLED is already an old technology. Ironically, it seems what's behind the times is actually your information. Google Micro-LED. It's almost laughable that you think OLED is actually something new that it's some sort of grand prophecy that Apple will use it in the next iteration of iPhone.

If you don't like a "jackless" iPhone. Don't buy it. If you want the kind of fast charge you're talking about, go buy an Android phone. Why are you even hanging around a Mac forum anyway if you love Android so much? Sour grapes much? You aren't not making anybody here feel bad :( for owning an iPhone. I can tell you that.:cool:
[doublepost=1474068682][/doublepost]

It's not "crucial". Apple can survive without Lightning just as it can survive without Firewire or Thunderbolt and just as it has survived without ADC or AAUI. Lightning won't appear on their desktop and/or laptop line. Your technological acumen is way off. Meanwhile, wireless is the future. I would love to hear what you'll say when headphone jacks start to disappear from Android phones in two years (talk about behind the times).


You aren't not making anybody here feel bad :( for owning an iPhone. I can tell you that.:cool:

well, I dont know about you but I am much happier for my device to do this much over what an iPhone can do, Android users have long evolved from deleting apps as introduced in iOS10 and the novel of widgets introduced on the iPhone 6 have worn off long ago too

 
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No it has nothing to do with water resistance. Apple is company that main goal is to make money. If I buy iPhone and than buy accessories from other company than Apple does not make money of their accessories.

So Apple being smart with the iPhone 7 now will force you to buy their dam earbuds and make more money. And make millions and millions of dollars of those dam earbuds.

It is money making move.
Apple is a company who is constantly laying down the foundation for the future (or at least, their future). The removal of the headphone jack is definitely about more than simply selling more wireless headphones. We simply aren't seeing it yet.

If you ask me, my guess is that the airpods will form the 2nd wave of Apple's foray into wearable computing (the first being the Apple Watch). That's why the headphone jack had to go. Not simply to sell more accessories (though that might be a nice plus for the short term), but also to increase adoption of wireless headphones.
 
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well, I dont know about you but I am much happier for my device to do this much over what an iPhone can do, Android users have long evolved from delting apps as introduced in iOS10 and the novel of widgets introduced on the iPhone 6 have worn off long ago too

Good. You do that.

If Android phones don't get on the wireless wearable bandwagon, most Android phone makers will go out of business very soon. Android phones have an edge over Apple not because of hardware but because of the platform itself. However, the Android model cuts both ways: without tight integration between software and hardware and without paradigm-shifting battery or screen technology, Android phones will be hitting the physics ceiling in a year or two (we're already at 90% of the theoretical power of lithium battery). Thus the picture is actually more like Samsung has its back against the wall and Huawei and Xiaomi so glad they enjoy privileged access to the Chinese market. HTC and Sony are doing so badly right now they might jettison their smartphone division all together.

So who will be making Android phones in two years? Probably really just Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi. Google might have to get its hands dirty soon if they want to save the platform. Granted, people won't abandon their Android phones en masse but by that time Android phones will have already been relegated to the low-end market.
 
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Good. You do that.

If Android phones don't get on the wireless wearable bandwagon, most Android phone makers will go out of business very soon. Android phones have an edge over Apple not because of hardware but because of the platform itself. However, the Android model cuts both ways: without tight integration between software and hardware and without paradigm-shifting battery or screen technology, Android phones will be hitting the physics ceiling in a year or two (we're already at 90% of the theoretical power of lithium battery). Thus the picture is actually more like Samsung has its back against the wall and Huawei and Xiaomi so glad they enjoy privileged access to the Chinese market. HTC and Sony are doing so badly right now they might jettison their smartphone division all together.

So who will be making Android phones in two years? Probably really just Samsung, Huawei and Xiaomi. Google might have to get its hands dirty soon if they want to save the platform. Granted, people won't abandon their Android phones en masse but by that time Android phones will have already been relegated to the low-end market.


Most people buy Android because of specifications and the non choking and restrictive environment of android itself, I suggest you do some google again, and see the different buying styles of Apple consumers over who purchases Androids.

As for your suggestion of Android going down the pan if they dont follow the iSheet in wireless bluetooth headphones, with about 80% market share good luck with that. The only way Apple will dominate the world would be them selling the rights to the iOS, thus allowing others to make it much cheaper (what its worth in the real world basically), but this will never happen.

you are probably the type queuing up over night to get their hands on an iPhone.
[doublepost=1474110273][/doublepost]

Apple is a company who is constantly laying down the foundation for the future (or at least, their future). The removal of the headphone jack is definitely about more than simply selling more wireless headphones. We simply aren't seeing it yet.

If you ask me, my guess is that the airpods will form the 2nd wave of Apple's foray into wearable computing (the first being the Apple Watch). That's why the headphone jack had to go. Not simply to sell more accessories (though that might be a nice plus for the short term), but also to increase adoption of wireless headphones.

its about accessories, and will always about accessories as far as Apple are concerned.

anyone who denies this clearly is blinded far too much by the bitten Apple.

If you seen the tear down of the iPhone, Apple wedged a piece of hollow plastic where the 3.5" socket should be, apparently for pressure or conduction means, but anyway it looked awfully similar in shape to the waterproof 3.5" socket used on the Note 7.

Not to mention glorious 'stereo' sound provided by one speaker.

All it takes to fool a generation of Apple fans is some hollow plastic it seems.
 
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Most people buy Android because of specifications and the non choking and restrictive environment of android itself, I suggest you do some google again, and see the different buying styles of Apple consumers over who purchases Androids.

As for your suggestion of Android going down the pan if they dont follow the iSheet in wireless bluetooth headphones, with about 80% market share good luck with that. The only way Apple will dominate the world would be them selling the rights to the iOS, thus allowing others to make it much cheaper (what its worth in the real world basically), but this will never happen.

you are probably the type queuing up over night to get their hands on an iPhone.

Most people buy Android because...let's just say there is a class divide between Android and iPhone users. :cool: This is supported by the fact that iPhone users spend more than 9 times more on Apps than their Android counterparts.

Alas, you may have a Master in Electronics but you're terrible in understanding simple economics: market share doesn't mean anything if per capita spending on Apps more than makes up smaller share of unit sales. A platform without good softwares and dedicated developers is as good as dead. 80% of the market but who spends 9 times less? Do the math, will ya?

I've never queued up for an iPhone ever in my life. iPhone is just better from a user experience perspective. In terms of making hardware works for software, Android has been playing catch-up since the first iPhone came out. Give credit where credit is due. Apple has ardent fans for a reason.

We'll talk in two years and see if I'm right about our wireless and "jackless" future. You have a good day now.
 
Most people buy Android because...let's just say there is a class divide between Android and iPhone users. :cool: This is supported by the fact that iPhone users spend more than 9 times more on Apps than their Android counterparts.

Alas, you may have a Master in Electronics but you're terrible in understanding simple economics: market share doesn't mean anything if per capita spending on Apps more than makes up smaller share of unit sales. A platform without good softwares and dedicated developers is as good as dead. 80% of the market but who spends 9 times less? Do the math, will ya?

I've never queued up for an iPhone ever in my life. iPhone is just better from a user experience perspective. In terms of making hardware works for software, Android has been playing catch-up since the first iPhone came out. Give credit where credit is due. Apple has ardent fans for a reason.

We'll talk in two years and see if I'm right about our wireless and "jackless" future. You have a good day now.

Smart people dont need to spend money on 'apps'. iPhone users think they are above others but its only in the mindset of Apple users.

Not only do they spend money on apps but also on other hardware that Apple hook you into in their ecosystem.

Android manufacturers dont flog off devices as having stereo speakers when in fact they are mono nor do they force users to buy a host of accessories.

And them wireless headphones are like tampons without a string. I will pass
 
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Not sure if this has been posted before, but if not, then enjoy.....


And this one.....


There are many good reason in those 2 videos that explains why it's a really really dumb idea to remove the 3.5mm minijack.
 
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While i'm at it.....


So you better speak with your wallet when Apple gives you something "new" that ISN'T better than 3.5mm minijack AT ALL just to have a reason to milk more money out of you by forcing you over to the Lightning port.
 
Most people buy Android because of specifications and the non choking and restrictive environment of android itself, I suggest you do some google again, and see the different buying styles of Apple consumers over who purchases Androids.

As for your suggestion of Android going down the pan if they dont follow the iSheet in wireless bluetooth headphones, with about 80% market share good luck with that. The only way Apple will dominate the world would be them selling the rights to the iOS, thus allowing others to make it much cheaper (what its worth in the real world basically), but this will never happen.

you are probably the type queuing up over night to get their hands on an iPhone.
[doublepost=1474110273][/doublepost]

its about accessories, and will always about accessories as far as Apple are concerned.

anyone who denies this clearly is blinded far too much by the bitten Apple.

If you seen the tear down of the iPhone, Apple wedged a piece of hollow plastic where the 3.5" socket should be, apparently for pressure or conduction means, but anyway it looked awfully similar in shape to the waterproof 3.5" socket used on the Note 7.

Not to mention glorious 'stereo' sound provided by one speaker.

All it takes to fool a generation of Apple fans is some hollow plastic it seems.
Only a fool would think that it's only about the accessories.

And that piece of plastic has been identified as a waterproof barometer, which was moved to make way for the stereo speakers.

Lastly, Apple doesn't need majority market share, they just need majority of the profits. Which is exactly what is happening now. Apple attracts the best customers, who don't mind spending on hardware and apps and services. This in turn attracts developers and 3rd party OEMs to support the platform, because that's where the money is. And the profits which Apple reaps can then be channeled back into R&D and further differentiate their products in non-spec means such as force touch and Touch ID.

And every cent which Apple earns is one less cent some Android OEM elsewhere has to pay the bills, and last I heard, some of them are having problems breaking even as is.

For example, Apple has the war chest to pay for exclusives for Apple Music, and they have shown that they aren't shy to spend when the need arises. Compared to Spotify who is still haemorrhaging losses even as we speak.

It doesn't take a genius to see how these factors all come together to nurture a virtuous win-win-win cycle for all the stakeholders (Apple, developers, consumers) which ensures that Apple will continue to stay in business for a good long time to come, and maintain its dominant position in the market while they are at it.
 
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Only a fool would think that it's only about the accessories.

And that piece of plastic has been identified as a waterproof barometer, which was moved to make way for the stereo speakers.

Lastly, Apple doesn't need majority market share, they just need majority of the profits. Which is exactly what is happening now. Apple attracts the best customers, who don't mind spending on hardware and apps and services. This in turn attracts developers and 3rd party OEMs to support the platform, because that's where the money is. And the profits which Apple reaps can then be channeled back into R&D and further differentiate their products in non-spec means such as force touch and Touch ID.

And every cent which Apple earns is one less cent some Android OEM elsewhere has to pay the bills, and last I heard, some of them are having problems breaking even as is.

For example, Apple has the war chest to pay for exclusives for Apple Music, and they have shown that they aren't shy to spend when the need arises. Compared to Spotify who is still haemorrhaging losses even as we speak.

It doesn't take a genius to see how these factors all come together to nurture a virtuous win-win-win cycle for all the stakeholders (Apple, developers, consumers) which ensures that Apple will continue to stay in business for a good long time to come, and maintain its dominant position in the market while they are at it.

He's an Android troll who knows very little about tech history and a conspiracy theorist who thinks every spec change Apple makes is part of its plan to take over the world. Don't waste your time. He'll laugh at himself in two years when people will have wondered why Apple didn't remove the jack sooner.
 
He's an Android troll who knows very little about tech history and a conspiracy theorist who thinks every spec change Apple makes is part of its plan to take over the world. Don't waste your time. He'll laugh at himself in two years when people will have wondered why Apple didn't remove the jack sooner.
He isn't wrong.

In a sense, this is Apple moving to remake and reshape the world in its image. You don't think that flash died a natural death, did you? It was Apple's express lack of support that prompted companies to favour HTML5 and native apps over flash because sticking with flash would have meant losing access to the lucrative iOS market.

I believe this is simply Apple further strengthening its ecosystem and seeding the ground for future technologies it plans to introduce further down the line.

But to think that Apple intends to achieve this simply by selling overpriced dongles and accessories is laughable, and honestly, an insult to Apple's intelligence and to all the hard work the people at Apple have done.
 
Tl;dr Honestly, this is just getting ridiculous. For christs sake go get a reality stick ;)


What always amuses me most is that some people seem to honestly think that Apple got where it is now through clever marketing and nothing much else.











...... Just thought I'd leave space there to let us reflect on that for a second. Now, one of the largest, richest companies on the planet. A company who was on the brink of bankruptcy, got to where they are now from marketing alone? Really, do tell, or as we like to say in Scotland in these circumstances, did they, aye.

Nobody in their right mind is going to say that Apple aren't pretty good in the old marketing department. But you don't make the kind of cash they have just by telling people something is good. Contrary to what would appear to be suggested, people are not mindless fools who will buy an invisible waistcoat because someone says it's the best thing ever.

Some people might like to thrust upon us their education as if that's some sort of marker by which we should measure their opinion as gospel. Oddly enough, I've not seen any of the regulars from here doing the same. Despite the fact that I've been around here long enough to know for a fact that there are among us people who chat away without feeling the need to disclose that they are in fact legitimate rocket scientists, among many many other professions. You never know when you might be taking to one of these unbelievably intelligent people. Perhaps because these people are more than clever enough to know that how many letters you have after your name does not in itself dictate your ability to be right.

Anyway where was I, oh yes marketing. You might get away with selling one person a polished turd by telling them it's a piece of the one true cross. But firstly, they won't be fooled again so easily. And secondly, they will, pardon my pun, make such a stink about it so as that other people will not make the same mistake. Marketing is a powerful, powerful tool, which will only get you so far. Because only a tool will fall for it time after time.

Apple and this may come as a complete and total shock, so brace yourself. Apple got where they are today by providing us with, hard as it may be for some to believe, good products. Products we can in general expect to last us a long time. Products which we know when we buy them will not only deliver, but in general surpass a level we have come to expect from them. Products which we feel safe in using from a reliability and security standpoint. Products that often include unique new technologies but more importantly, far more importantly, whatever technologies they do include are put to very good use.

Rather than filling a spec sheet with technologies that are badly implemented, or that are inferior from a usability perspective. They give us good, solid, reliable and useful things. Which is why unlike many other manufacturers, when Apple implement something new, it lasts through generations of their products. It doesn't disappear from the spec sheet as a failure, only to be replaced by something else the next year in the hope it might stick. Apple, more than any other manufacturer on the planet, manage to deliver a complete package. Something where the hardware, the software and the ecosystem work in perfect harmony to create for the end user an unsurpassed experience. Of course that's just my, and a few other hundred million people's opinion.

I know this not just because I am an Apple customer and a very happy one at that. But because I wasn't always an Apple customer. I once tread the ground of quietly sneering at those (very few at the time) I knew who were Apple customers because they must surely be fools, they couldn't run all of the applications that I, as a mighty Windows user could. They were foolish because they couldn't spend as may thousands of pounds every six months as I did, keeping my PC on the cutting edge for the latest gaming experiences.

Yeahhhhhh. Oddly enough it was my very experience of owning, using, working with, programming for and fixing those Windows systems for, well, let's for the sake of argument say 15 years. That drove me to adopt an Apple computer in the first place. When I was sick of all of the hassle, the constant need to chase a never ending stream of upgraded hardware and all of the security and other nonsense that went with it. I eventually reached the point of thinking there must surely be a better way, why aren't Microsoft making my life easier instead of harder.

Then, with newly opened ears, I actually listened to my Apple owning friend and it was a revelation. He had most all of the things I wanted but had none of the stress and hassle that went with it.
I purchased my very first Mac and from that moment knew that I had been missing out on a nicer, simpler life.

That story is also true when it comes to handheld devices, including those that predate smartphones. I rose through the ranks of Psion, Palm, Symbian, Blackberry, Windows Mobile (in the days when it went through more name changes than a satanists wife) and yes, even Android. In a never ending pursuit of more power, better features and something that wasn't so, well, clunky is the only way I could describe all of those in one way or another. (Although Palm for the most part did a decent job.)



What all of this painful waffling is getting at is fairly simple. People, most people, aren't stupid. We are capable of making our own decisions, often based on decades long experiences with a great many differing platforms. Both personally and professionally.

Crucially, we know a good thing when we see it.
You might be surprised that none of this is leading to an anti-Android sentiment. There's nothing wrong with Android, if that's your choice. It and its over 1000 manufacturers have more than their fare share of varying problems. Just as Apple and iOS have theirs. Luckily there's plenty of space for both to exist. But to suggest that the hundreds of millions of Apple customers are somehow foolish, blinded by marketing or making a mistake of some kind is a sentiment beyond the ridiculous. Just as suggesting that Android is in the position it is in based on its merits alone is utterly ridiculous, any research into the average selling price of Android hardware will show that price beyond all else has put it in the hands of the people. We can't all afford hundreds upon hundreds to buy the very best technology has to offer. Be it Apple or Android.

The vast buying public at large, who lets be honest aren't really represented on these forums in any way shape or form, don't make their decisions based on a spec sheet as long as my incredibly long arms. No it's one simple aspect and one only that makes their choice for them, they get whichever device they can afford. That above all else has decreed Androids position.

This is borne out in the spending power of the average iOS or Android owner. iOS simply makes more money, because more people who use it can afford to do so than the average Android owner. It's not hyperbole it's just a fact. Some might say that there's no reason or sense in the App buying public or it's very real relevance to understanding various ecosystems. That of course is also nonsense. A smartphone is a computer in every sense of the description. So it's only natural that one would purchase software to expand and enhance the experience and of course to entertain oneself. Spending power is an increasingly useful metric in understanding the popularity of a software platform and of its demographic.

As for the subject at hand. Finally ;) Apple may have drawn a line in the sand when it comes to analog headphones but to suggest that this is for Apples benefit and theirs alone is just patently wrong. In the long run every Apple customer will benefit from this. They will be pouring significant resources into development of wireless audio technology and ultimately that will bring about a stunningly good, lossless audio interface we can all enjoy.

Likewise Lightning and its digital connection allows for far better processing components to be used, bypassing the internal processing.

Is it all going to be good? God no. Just as there are good and crap analog headphones, Lightning and wireless will share that same fate. But the quality of the device you decide to spend your money on is in the hands of the purchaser, not the manufacturers, who will make varying degrees of hardware quality.
And it's going to be a tough transition for some people, despite the fact that's there's very little, not nothing, just little they could do before that they can't do now.

Is it for Apples benefit? Well of course it is, every decision any company makes is for its own benefit. But thankfully some do it in a way that will ultimately benefit their customers as well.

We can debate the pros and cons of this decision until we're Bluetooth in the face (couldn't resist :D) But what's done is done and it won't be undone, Apple aren't a company for backtracking on decisions like this. We just have to suck it up, put on our big boy pants and start thinking of how this could benefit us in the long run. The analog port had to die eventually, that was always going to happen. We just didn't really think it was going to happen now. I've said before, I'm all for it, I can see a few years down the line when this decision will really bear fruit and we have seriously good wireless systems that will make us wonder why we kept analog around so long as we did. But for that to happen, to force companies to invest the billions it will take to do it, it has to be killed first.

I could waffle on for a few more pages but much like any of you who dragged yourself through this post, I'm getting bored now and thanks to my sodding nerve damage my hand is getting sore from typing. So..... Let's wrap this up. Not enough sleep, too much pain, so too much medication, make Stu brain chatty o_O :p


Oh one last thing. Despite having decided to stick with my 6+ already. I've spent, well over a couple of weeks, but the last two days in particular pouring over every decent device on the market. iOS and Android.
And I can't help it, the inevitable has happened. I've just ordered a nice new iPhone 7 + in black (ultimately the camera won me over, analysing some uncompressed images really showed how much better it is. I still stand by my ability to cope with the 6+ 1GB of RAM, it's just had its time. )
So, I suppose that must make me a stupid mindless sheep too, good I like it that way. Baaaaahhhhter go get myself some AirPods now :D
 
He isn't wrong.

In a sense, this is Apple moving to remake and reshape the world in its image. You don't think that flash died a natural death, did you? It was Apple's express lack of support that prompted companies to favour HTML5 and native apps over flash because sticking with flash would have meant losing access to the lucrative iOS market.
Interesting that you should mention Flash. Flash is proprietary, HTML 5 is open. Going from Flash (proprietary) to HTML5 (open) was a good thing for consumers. How is going from 3.5mm (open) to Lightning (proprietary) a good thing for consumers?


I believe this is simply Apple further strengthening its ecosystem and seeding the ground for future technologies it plans to introduce further down the line.
What do you think "strengthening its ecosystem" means? It means increasing the need for 3rd parties to license proprietary technology.


But to think that Apple intends to achieve this simply by selling overpriced dongles and accessories is laughable, and honestly, an insult to Apple's intelligence and to all the hard work the people at Apple have done.
I'll agree with you the moment that Apple makes Lightning technology open and no cost to license. If you would be inclined to respond with "but Apple spent money in R&D", my response to that is, Apple has easily recovered the cost associated with developing Lightning.
 
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Interesting that you should mention Flash. Flash is proprietary, HTML 5 is open. Going from Flash (proprietary) to HTML5 (open) was a good thing for consumers. How is going from 3.5mm (open) to Lightning (proprietary) a good thing for consumers?
Apple doesn't care a crap about whether something is open or closed. They care only about the end user experience. They will support a standard when it is in their best interests to do so, and either drop support for it and / or fork the standard when it suits their own objectives.

The removal of the 3.5mm jack was crucial to making the iPhone waterproof (recent water tests have shown the iPhone 7 is easily as waterproof as the S7, if not more, despite its lower certification). Apple wants you to go bluetooth (also another open standard); lightning is simply there as a stopgap measure if you still need a wired connection.

What do you think "strengthening its ecosystem" means? It means increasing the need for 3rd parties to license proprietary technology.
Proprietary technology which brings legitimate benefits to me as the end user. Benefits which very often cannot be had anywhere else outside of the Apple ecosystem, no matter how much I am willing to pay. For example, up till now, nobody has managed to come up with a pair of bluetooth headphones that can easily pair to a device and switch connections. Not sure if Apple will decide to license their W1 chip tech though. I seriously hope they do.

I'll agree with you the moment that Apple makes Lightning technology open and no cost to license. If you would be inclined to respond with "but Apple spent money in R&D", my response to that is, Apple has easily recovered the cost associated with developing Lightning.
https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

Apple equips third party manufacturers with the authorized hardware components, tools, documentation, and technical support necessary. There might be some measure of profit involved, but all this certainly isn't free. It certainly goes a long way towards ensuring a certain degree of standard in lightning accessories. Just look at the crapshoot that is the USB-C cable.
 
He isn't wrong.

In a sense, this is Apple moving to remake and reshape the world in its image. You don't think that flash died a natural death, did you? It was Apple's express lack of support that prompted companies to favour HTML5 and native apps over flash because sticking with flash would have meant losing access to the lucrative iOS market.

I believe this is simply Apple further strengthening its ecosystem and seeding the ground for future technologies it plans to introduce further down the line.

But to think that Apple intends to achieve this simply by selling overpriced dongles and accessories is laughable, and honestly, an insult to Apple's intelligence and to all the hard work the people at Apple have done.

Actually, most of his comments are factually wrong. Just to name a few:
  1. "All Apple pass to the consumer with lightning is to buy more Apple products.": Wrong. Lightning port is the first to offer reversible connection. USB is years behind. It has only caught up recently.
  2. "That looks pretty identical to the previous model and has a battery much smaller that what competitors have, doesn't have any fast charge, zero wireless charge capability": Wrong. iPhone 6s and 6s Plus already have fast charging capability and no smartphone on the market right now has good wireless charging implementation.
  3. "Apple are just corporate greed, all they want is profit, profit and more profit.": Please name one Android phone maker that isn't about profit. I bet you can't.
  4. "Samsung have much larger batteries, an edge to edge display and a smaller footprint than Apple to play with, so that begs the question how can Samsung pack into a Note 7: a stylus, a 3500mAh battery, iris scanners, SD card slot, power saving technology,fast charging tech, inductive coil and 3.5" Audio Jack, and still reach higher Ingress Protection (not splash proof) rating than Apple.": He fails to mention that Samsung's high-end phones need a 3500mAh battery for a reason—to offset inefficiencies incurred by their higher but qualitatively negligible specs. The same goes for so-claimed "power saving technology".
  5. "Apple probably are in talks with Samsung to be an OEM supplier for OLED screens for the iPhone 8 out next year. Apple charge over the odds for underwhelming devices and are behind the times with technology.": He thinks OLED is actually something "new". Apple's micro-LED technology has already shown better results in image quality and screen longevity. He also neglects to mention that the A10 chip is currently the most advanced mobile CPU in the world.
I'd be kind to say that your analysis of the history of Flash is "off". You'd think that with Android's numeric dominance in the mobile market, Apple wouldn't have the kind of clout to bury an industrial standard, especially back in 2010 when Jobs penned that famous letter. Flash's demise actually has more to do with the adoption of ABR than Apple's refusal to support the format. In other words, it's more Google than Apple in this particular case. It also has to do with the fact that it's just a really power hungry technology, which made it maladaptive to the mobile platform.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with trying to strengthen one's ecosystem. I feel sorry for anyone who thinks there is. Any tech company would do the same were they in Apple's position. Just look at Adobe and Microsoft with Creative Suite and Office, respectively. Companies are there to make money, not to do the "right" thing. They only adopt open standard if it's to their advantage, e.g. when they don't have the market share and profit margin to make proprietary standard profitable.
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Apple doesn't care a crap about whether something is open or closed. They care only about the end user experience. They will support a standard when it is in their best interests to do so, and either drop support for it and / or fork the standard when it suits their own objectives.

The removal of the 3.5mm jack was crucial to making the iPhone waterproof (recent water tests have shown the iPhone 7 is easily as waterproof as the S7, if not more, despite its lower certification). Apple wants you to go bluetooth (also another open standard); lightning is simply there as a stopgap measure if you still need a wired connection.


Proprietary technology which brings legitimate benefits to me as the end user. Benefits which very often cannot be had anywhere else outside of the Apple ecosystem, no matter how much I am willing to pay. For example, up till now, nobody has managed to come up with a pair of bluetooth headphones that can easily pair to a device and switch connections. Not sure if Apple will decide to license their W1 chip tech though. I seriously hope they do.


https://developer.apple.com/programs/mfi/

Apple equips third party manufacturers with the authorized hardware components, tools, documentation, and technical support necessary. There might be some measure of profit involved, but all this certainly isn't free. It certainly goes a long way towards ensuring a certain degree of standard in lightning accessories. Just look at the crapshoot that is the USB-C cable.

Well said.:)
 
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