Report: Apple to Stop Selling iPhone 14 and iPhone SE in EU This Month

[surferfb]

I understand your point about the regulations blocking innovation, but the legislation includes provisions that allow for adaptation if significant advancements in charging technology emerge.

Do you think any company is going to invest the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars it will take to design a new connector if they’re going to have to convince the EU (and their competitors) to adopt it - with no guarantee that they’ll agree?

Market forces do work. Look at electric car charging in the US - NACS became the standard through the market operating without government intervention.

Meanwhile, the EU regulated and Europe is stuck with a bulky and vastly inferior cable. Tesla tried to get the EU to considering updating the standard and the response was “a committee decided the standard years ago.” So you’re stuck with a worse solution.

Again - the government should not be forcing connectors on companies - they don’t know better than engineers.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Again - the government should not be forcing connectors on companies - they don’t know better than engineers.

Engineers don’t decide, and never have. Marketing, MBAs and c-suite executives do.

Just like Apple engineers were saying “no, not yet” with the AVP, and yet here we are.

 

[surferfb]

Engineers don’t decide, and never have. Marketing, MBAs and c-suite executives do.

Who know better than government bureaucrats. And, are making decisions based on options presented to them by engineers and product designers.

Remember - the EU tried to mandate Micro-USB. They did mandate a worse EV charging solution. Why do you think they’re right now? Just because you haven’t something better yet?

 

[theluggage]

I thought people were saying that the USB-C mandate only applied to new devices, and that existing devices on the market weren't affected and could continue to be sold.

My guess - there's 16 pages of legalese and legal opinion somewhere defining what counts as an "existing device" - otherwise someone could pull a Theseius' Ship stunt by claiming that the product was an existing design while changing it bit-by-bit.

That's unfounded speculation. Everything points that Apple was already moving towards USB-C, at most this moved it up a year.

Well, yes - they need the extra data lanes of USB-C to support faster data transfer, higher def video out etc. on the iPad Pro and probably future high0end iPhones - at which point it makes sense for everything to go USB-C. But, this way Apple can blame those nasty EU folk for you having to throw away your Lightning clock radio stand, even though they were going to make it obsolete anyway.

Whats the betting that Apple's stock of iPhone SE & 14 models is running out and with the new models a few months away they don't plan to make another batch anyway?

And now we're stuck with USB-C forever because no one has any incentive to develop a better port.

The EU effectively mandated MicroUSB years ago - and it was only Apple who did an end-run around that by offering an adapter dongle. Yet, here we are with USB-C (again, having already been adopted by most of the market that isn't Apple).

Anyway, what is this amazing, new, innovative way of plugging a wire into a phone to charge it that the EU has somehow extinguished? The major point about USB-C in this situation is that it incorporates the USB power delivery standard which is an extensible way of allowing devices to negotiate what power they need. The maximum power delivery via USB-C has already doubled since the EU directive - and even when it comes to data, we have USB4v2 and Thunderbolt 5 running over the same connector. It's going to be years - if ever - before phones exceed the current capabilities of USB-C - and any major innovations are more likely to use wireless technologies.

The big problem before USB-C was that even with everything (except Apple) using microUSB, whether you got anything more than a trickle charge off a third-party charger was a lottery. For most phone users, that connector has one job to do - charge the battery. Once you've got a plug that automatically sets the voltage, the only way forward is to not need a plug.

I am only half-joking though. Part of me wonders if Apple would actually have been able to get away with such a stunt.

Last time I looked, the EU directive applied specifically to "battery powered devices which can be recharged by a cable" so, yes, they absolutely could and it wouldn't even be a "stunt" - and any future innovation is more likely to be with some more efficient wireless charging (and/or faster wireless data transfer) than finding a different way to plug in a cable. There was also a get-out for anything that needed more than the current maximum power delivery of USB-C - although that has already doubled without need for a different connector.

You'd really need to come up with something laws-of-physics-changing in terms of pushing power down a copper wire to justify throwing away the benefits of a standard connector.

 

[nexusrule]

People in the EU should be celebrating! You guys brought Apple to its knees! You got Fortnite! You got side loaded apps and you even got the connector you wanted!

Who cares about lower cost phones affordable to less fortunate folks?

Those people don't matter, right?

Those people will be still able to buy those phones until they are in stock and then they will buy the updated USB-C versions. I understand from a probably USA citizen's point of view this may seem heavy handed but this heavy handiness it's also the reason we don't have criminals running our health system and letting people die for money. The reason why we have decent minimum salaries. The reason why our education is basically free up to and including universities. The reason why jobless people have unemployment benefits. The reason why old alone people have often free hospices. The reason why we don't have people buying firearms like they were gums and kill children in schools. The reason why we are not slave of every corporation whim. I could keep going but I think the message is clear.

 

[surferfb]

Anyway, what is this amazing, new, innovative way of plugging a wire into a phone to charge it that the EU has somehow extinguished?

Who knows - that’s the point. The EU doesn’t know the future (clearly, because as you pointed out, they tried to mandate Micro-USB) and neither do you or I. Maybe you’re right and USB-C is the answer for the next few decades - and if that’s the case mandating doesn’t make sense because everyone would get there. Or they’re wrong, and we could have had a better solution and we’d be laughing at how bad USB-C was. But mandating it is a ridiculous overreach that does nothing but limit us to what we have now.

 

[WarmWinterHat]

Who knows - that’s the point. The EU doesn’t know the future (clearly, because as you pointed out, they tried to mandate Micro-USB) and neither do you or I. Maybe you’re right and USB-C is the answer for the next few decades - and if that’s the case mandating doesn’t make sense because everyone would get there. Or they’re wrong, and we could have had a better solution and we’d be laughing at how bad USB-C was. But mandating it is a ridiculous overreach that does nothing but limit us to what we have now.

If Apple, or another company, would offer something better, that is open to other companies and not proprietary then I would be open to that idea.

 

[maszaikasza]

Do you think any company is going to invest the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars it will take to design a new connector if they’re going to have to convince the EU (and their competitors) to adopt it - with no guarantee that they’ll agree?

Market forces do work. Look at electric car charging in the US - NACS became the standard through the market operating without government intervention.

Meanwhile, the EU regulated and Europe is stuck with a bulky and vastly inferior cable. Tesla tried to get the EU to considering updating the standard and the response was “a committee decided the standard years ago.” So you’re stuck with a worse solution.

Again - the government should not be forcing connectors on companies - they don’t know better than

Not sure if the analogy for electric car

Who knows - that’s the point. The EU doesn’t know the future (clearly, because as you pointed out, they tried to mandate Micro-USB) and neither do you or I. Maybe you’re right and USB-C is the answer for the next few decades - and if that’s the case mandating doesn’t make sense because everyone would get there. Or they’re wrong, and we could have had a better solution and we’d be laughing at how bad USB-C was. But mandating it is a ridiculous overreach that does nothing but limit us to what we have now.

Anyone other than Apple would get there. As for almost a decade now. I’m not 100% sure this EU legislation won’t cause problems in the future, but I’m certain it has ended the ridiculous situation where Apple was selling the only smartphone, TWS earphones, and tablet on the market that couldn’t be charged with the same cable I use for every other device in my home.

 

[theluggage]

Who knows - that’s the point.

We do.

This isn't about trying to guess where processor or wireless communication technology will go in the next 10 years - it's being reasonably confident that Ohm's Law isn't going to change in the next 10 years. The EU have only mandated what shape plug you need to connect a bit of copper wire to a phone and how you negotiate what voltage to put down it.

When they didn't, in the past, the industry used deliberately differently shaped plugs and protocols to do exactly the same job, so they could FUD people into buying expensive, proprietary adaptors.

If affordable room-temperature superconducting wires come along in the next 10 years then... well, you could probably build them into something backwards-compatible with USB-C anyway - and anything needing more power than can be safely pushed down a copper wire is exempt from the EU directive anyway.

 

[maszaikasza]

Do you think any company is going to invest the tens to hundreds of millions of dollars it will take to design a new connector if they’re going to have to convince the EU (and their competitors) to adopt it - with no guarantee that they’ll agree?

Market forces do work. Look at electric car charging in the US - NACS became the standard through the market operating without government intervention.

Meanwhile, the EU regulated and Europe is stuck with a bulky and vastly inferior cable. Tesla tried to get the EU to considering updating the standard and the response was “a committee decided the standard years ago.” So you’re stuck with a worse solution.

Again - the government should not be forcing connectors on companies - they don’t know better than engineers.

I’m sure they would. USB connectors are designed by USB-IF, a collaboration of many of the world’s largest tech companies, including Apple.
If there is a significant improvement in the charging process, I am almost sure the legislation will be updated to reflect the new standards. But I am also sure that we will see devices charged exclusively wirelessly sooner.

 

[vgmrm]

That's unfounded speculation. Everything points that Apple was already moving towards USB-C, at most this moved it up a year. And now we're stuck with USB-C forever because no one has any incentive to develop a better port.

EU idiocy strikes again! They don't know better than product designers and shouldn't get involved. We're lucky they didn't succeed when they tried this with Micro USB a few years back.

I don't give a damn about having multiple stores, but having a different cable model for each generation of Apple equipment is unaffordable for me.
In public installations with video projectors you could provide service for years to any PC user (Windows or Linux) but you had to have a drawer full of dozens of converters for Apple users. In the end we decided that if you used Apple the user had to bring the VGA-DVI-HDMI converter.
On the other hand, if I remember correctly, it was Apple itself who decided years ago to introduce USB-C in their laptops when no one had even seen them, but, curiously enough, they have resisted to the last to introduce them in all their products.
And with chargers, for the same reasons as for video connectors, better a universal cable that automatically adapts to the device than having dozens of chargers and running out of battery at the worst moment because you have forgotten just the charger you need.

And finally, USB-C has several versions of standards that allow it to evolve, both in USB and Thunderbolt, so it does not necessarily have to be bad to have standardization standards.

Or do you think that all standards are superfluous?

 

[AppliedMicro]

Just as long as they don’t innovate on the shape of the charging port

Any innovations is welcome - as long as you support USB-C for the foreseeable future. A connector that can provide up to 240 watts charging in a connector that measures 8.4 millimetres (0.33 in) wide, 2.6 millimetres (0.10 in) high. And, as the cherry on top, allows for dozens of gigabits per second in data transfer over the same connector. What more do you want?

👉 Seriously, what bloody innovation in charging ports do you foresee in the future anyway? 🤷🏻

What innovation do you foresee that this regulation would preclude in the foreseeable future?
Magnetic charging receptacles that don’t need to be plugged in? Guess what, the regulations allow for them!
Same is true for difference connectors used for data transmission. The regulations allow for them! Blow yourself away with OCuLink or something else!

Look, I get that you oppose government regulation as a matter of principle.
But it’s getting a. It beyond ridiculous on your arguing about precluding innovation on charging ports.

👉 What kind of evidence is there in the history of charging port connectors that would indicate mind-blowing innovation could be around the corner?

It’s a boring business. Many devices I have still use barrel jack connectors that were “invented” …how many decades ago? And as you say yourself: USB-C is good enough for the average consumer - and the benefit of not having to have different proprietary connectors for different consumer electronics products to charge trumps the even remotely foreseeable benefits of yet another proprietary connector.

 

[AppliedMicro]

PS: I mean, the EU could conceivably regulate the form and shape of - and standardise - connectors used for data transmission in computer and consumer electronic

You’d actually have a point that I’d agree with (that it may stifle innovation).

But pushing dozens of watts of power to charge a handheld electronic device?
There are electrical and physical limits in the real that limit possible “innovation” in that space.

 

[surferfb]

Look, I get that you oppose government regulation as a matter of principle.
But it’s getting a. It beyond ridiculous on your arguing about precluding innovation on charging ports.

I am not against government regulation as a matter of principle. In fact, earlier in my career I helped write government regulations and now assist the US government implementing their projects and programs, including new regulations. I am against bad and unnecessary regulations as a matter of principle. Of which this is a prime example.

👉 What kind of evidence is there in the history of charging port connectors that would indicate mind-blowing innovation could be around the corner?

The EU tried to mandate Micro USB within the past decade. They’ve already mandated a worse EV charging solution. Those two facts alone should convince anyone of the folly of having the government mandate a connector. Would it have been better if they had succeeded with micro-usb? So why are you convinced nothing better could ever come now?

It’s a boring business. Many devices I have still use barrel jack connectors that were “invented” …how many decades ago? And as you say yourself: USB-C is good enough for the average consumer - and the benefit of not having to have different proprietary connectors for different consumer electronics products to charge trumps the even remotely foreseeable benefits of yet another proprietary connector.

So are App Stores, but you’ve spent months saying how different options are needed because Apple hasn’t been innovating there. So why mandate no competition here and mandate it there?

 

[I7guy]

They are TCL Flip 3 phones, and are usb-c.

Not only it possible, you can buy them on Amazon right now.

Flip 3

www.tcl.com

I thought this was not in reference to a modern flip phone but something like:

 

[Dr McKay]

I thought this was not in reference to a modern flip phone but something like:

View attachment 2462256

The person who claimed "That is not possible" certainly thought so, but USB C is 10 years old now so of course there are dumbphones who have adopted it.

 

[PhoenixAnhart]

Government regulation is, in fact, a good thing. The US would do good to note this fact.

 

[SanderEvers]

And yet, they didn‘t.

👉 It just does not take ten years to move your yearly released phone models to USB-C if you want to.

They DID. But slowly. In the year before they finished switching the iPads over to USB-C. Leaving the iPhone the last with Lightning, and honestly they did that with only one reason. Money. Which they made from licensing accessories for MFI. MFI doesn't exist anymore with USB-C, and I absolutely am sure that Apple does feel that in their profit.

But Apple always was planning to switch their entire lineup to USB-C.

 

[unex]

 

[surferfb]

Leaving the iPhone the last with Lightning, and honestly they did that with only one reason. Money. Which they made from licensing accessories for MFI. MFI doesn't exist anymore with USB-C, and I absolutely am sure that Apple does feel that in their profit.

Nope. Multiple sources reported to Gruber that the amount of money Apple made licensing MFi was equivalent to “a rounding error” on Apple’s books. The idea that Apple would make an iPhone they considered worse for the majority of their customers for pocket change is laughable.

I know it’s hard for tech nerds to believe, but USB-C isn’t a huge win for the vast majority of Apple’s customers. It’s a slight improvement over Lightening at best, and has tradeoffs, and Apple was right to take it slow transitioning their biggest and most important product. Especially considering the reaction they received the last time they switched - which unlike this change, was a significant improvement over the previous connector.

But Apple always was planning to switch their entire lineup to USB-C.

Agree 100% No need for regulation to mandate it.

 

[votdfak]

I would argue that usb-c was always destined to come to the iPhone in 2023, but it's fine to me if the pro-regulatory folks want to take a victory lap over the EU mandate. They want a phone built by regulation, they will get a phone built by regulation. The people cheering this on just don't know what it will cost them in the long run.

You're just ass-uming. EU was right to stop that nonsense. Apple wanted to squeeze every last drop of juice out of that ancient port. Also, Apple is a first company to remove a port/technology to push more $$$ their way.

 

[I7guy]

Government regulation is, in fact, a good thing. The US would do good to note this fact.

Yes, some government regulation.

 

[I7guy]

You're just ass-uming. EU was right to stop that nonsense. Apple wanted to squeeze every last drop of juice out of that ancient port. Also, Apple is a first company to remove a port/technology to push more $$$ their way.

Even if apple did, government should stay in their lane and let the market decide. But I suppose there is disagreement over what and when government should step in.

 

[neuropsychguy]

I understand the frustration, but without this law, Apple would still be making current gen iPhones with a lightning port.

Possibly, but Phil Schiller in 2012 called the lightning cable as the connector "for the next decade". That's about how long it lasted before the switch to USB C. I'm not saying the EU had no influence, but it might not have been even the largest influence on the shift.

 

[votdfak]

Even if apple did, government should stay in their lane and let the market decide. But I suppose there is disagreement over what and when government should step in.

We all know they're not staying in their lane, Tik-Tok ban in USA, multiple bans in China and Russia, at least this one wasn't motivated by geopolitics.