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Again, MFi income was reported as equivalent to “a rounding error” on Apple’s profits by multiple sources inside Apple
Given how little Mac sales make up of Apple’s overall bottom line, their upgrade pricing on RAM and storage for Macs isn’t much more either.

Apple makes a few dollars on every MFI Lightning cable (going by the price difference between equivalent USB-C and Lightning cables from various manufacturers, articles on the internet and, more specifically, pricing googled for Apple’s proprietary C94 connector).

I’d also assume that more than one, probably about Lightning cables are sold per iPhone each year (mainly replacement cable purchases for existing users over the lifespan of their iPhone, but also users who use more than one charger at different places). As a very rough guesstimate, I’d not be surprised if it contributed about the equivalent of about 1% of their iPhone earnings (and feeling pretty confident in that order of magnitude).

👉 That easily makes for earnings upwards of 100 million of USD per year from Lightning cables.

Certainly a “rounding error” in the grand scheme of things.
But to bean counters like Cook, every little penny counts.

The EU didn't mandate data transfer speeds. You can have a USB-C port at USB-2 speeds.
Exactly. They mandated a connector that can - but does not have to - do to higher speeds as well.
That’s up to the implementation required by the accessory/peripheral.
 
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If you’re glad they didn’t, why are you so convinced there will never be a port better than USB-C?
Please at least provide an estimate or guess:

👉 How much smaller would a “better port” for charging be? And/or how many more Watts or Volts would it allow to be pushed through to handheld electronic devices?

I mean, if I don‘t misunderstand or, we both agree that Lightning for phones is (or was) good enough for the average consumer?
 
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Again, MFi income was reported as equivalent to “a rounding error” on Apple’s profits by multiple sources inside Apple. If you think Apple is intentionally making its most important product worse for the majority of its users to make “a rounding error” worth of additional profit you and I are looking at two very different companies.
Then Apple brought USB-C into their products on MacBook Pro in 2016 and became quite controversial back then for having a laptop that was (and still is today) dongle dependent because the only port on there is USB-C. If Apple was truly wanting to push USB-C, they’d not wait until iPhone 15 to transition, but sooner. That 6-7 years of delay lead to quite a few people questioning the Apple’s intentions here. Even if we take into account the planning and whatnot, it is still quite a while for Apple to adopt to USB-C on iPhone, assuming EU did nothing.
 
The iPhone 12, 13 and 14, in hindsight, were part of a 3-year cycle. So if Apple didn’t upgrade the iPhone 12 in 2020 to include usb-c, then their next opportunity would have been 2023 with the iPhone 15.

That this lines up with the EU’s imposed deadline is probably more coincidence than anything else, but again, I am fine with pro-EU folks wanting to frame this as their victory.
I would love to see this as pure coincidence rather than EU pushing Apple to transition. We may never know the full story but at least we get all major devices with USB-C ports. Still, MacBook is the first product lineup that brings USB-C, followed by iPad a couple years later, meaning Apple takes 6-7 years to bring iPhone USB-C port, which is quite long for a charging and data port switch. Yeah, it is quite odd that they didn’t upgrade iPhone 12 series to USB-C ports given its development didn’t get hindered by pandemic much if at all.
 
Please at least provide an estimate or guess:

👉 How much smaller would a “better port” for charging be. And/or how many more Watts or Volts would it allow transmit to handheld electronic devices?
I guess as long as the cable is used solely for charging, other factors like transfer speed and max wattage doesn't really matter.

I do sometimes wonder if it's a good idea for all usb-c cables to look the same, regardless of spec. I know for one that many of the colleagues in my school have no idea what the difference between 2.0 and 3.0 speeds are. To them, usb-c is simply a new cable that they can use to charge their laptops (new in that our work laptops come with a barrel port charger, but also have a usb-c port which can be used for charging and data transfer). Their flash drives still use the usb-A port, and we still have some peripherals which charge via micro-usb as well.

So at home, I have 2.0 usb-c cables (like the one that come with my iPad Pro), some which support pd, 3.1 and 3.2 (which came with my Samsung T5 and T7 drives), usb 4.0 (which I bought to connect my switch to an external monitor), and they likely do have different max wattage as well.

I think I am still able to tell which is which because I am the one who bought them. Maybe I am overthinking it and being able to tell the difference between different types of usb cables is simply not a problem that the vast majority of users will need to bother themselves with. Until maybe, one connects his computer to an external monitor via the charging cable and then wonders why it doesn't project out because (1) the cable doesn't have the right data transfer speed and (2) he plugged it into the pd power port instead of the one labelled usb-c. o_O
 
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Apple makes a few dollars on every MFI Lightning cable (going by the price difference between equivalent USB-C and Lightning cables from various manufacturers, articles on the internet and, more specifically, pricing googled for Apple’s proprietary C94 connector).

I’d also assume that more than one, probably about Lightning cables are sold per iPhone each year (mainly replacement cable purchases for existing users over the lifespan of their iPhone, but also users who use more than one charger at different places). As a very rough guesstimate, I’d not be surprised if it contributed about the equivalent of about 1% of their iPhone earnings (and feeling pretty confident in that order of magnitude).

👉 That easily makes for earnings upwards of 100 million of USD per year from Lightning cables.

Certainly a “rounding error” in the grand scheme of things.
But to bean counters like Cook, every little penny counts.
The hate Tim Cook gets on these forums is ridiculous. Assuming your numbers are accurate (which I don’t think they are, my guess is you’re overstating by about 50%, but I’ll give them to you), no, I don’t think the company that decided the chips available weren’t good enough for its phones so spent an estimated TENS OF BILLIONS to design its own chips is deciding that “you know what, we’re going to ship an intentionally worse product for the majority of our customers to save an extra $100m a year”.

And if you were right that it was all Cook or his lieutenants picking Lightening over a superior option for money, I think people inside of Apple would have absolutely leaked that. I think the far more likely scenario is there was a vigorous debate inside Apple every year about whether the time was right to switch and Apple was just more conservative than all of you when it comes to switching out the connector on its most important product.

Exactly. They mandated a connector that can - but does not have to - do to higher speeds as well.
That’s up to the implementation required by the accessory/peripheral.
And I’d argue USB-C is (admittedly, slightly) worse from a shape perspective that lightening. Yes, USB-C superior for data speeds, power, and interoperability with other products, but it’s not as good at its primary job, being a connector. Which is the one thing it’s supposed to do (and what most people use it for).

So when the majority of iPhone users ONLY use the connector to charge overnight, never plug anything else into the phone, when does it make sense for Apple switch over to USB-C? Probably when it’s ubiquitous enough that the benefit of it being used having multiple devices that charge with it outweighs the slightly worse shape.

Remember, Apple is estimated to finalize the design of iPhones 2 years prior to release. So, whichever year you think Apple should have switched the iPhone over to USB-C, subtract 2 years from that phone’s release date to determine when that decision was made. iPhone 14? Connector decided in 2020. 13? 2019. 12? 2018. etc. Maybe you do think USB-C was ubiquitous enough for Apple to make the switch in 2018 or before, but can you understand why, particularly after the reaction last time they switched (which was a switch to an actually far superior connector), they might be conservative about this?

At the end of the day, I don’t think Apple is ever going to be complacent enough to ship a worse phone to save “rounding error’s” amount of money. I think they’d raise the price before doing that. And if executives were doing that, I think Apple engineers would absolutely have leaked that fact to the press.

And all of this is immaterial to the fact that it’s, in my opinion, ridiculous to write what connector devices use to charge themselves into law in a fast-changing field like consumer electronics. But I’ve been over my reasons why I think it’s ridiculous enough that I’m not going to rehash it here. This post is already way too long :)
 
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I guess as long as the cable is used solely for charging, other factors like transfer speed and max wattage doesn't really matter.
Even so, both the max wattage and data transfer speed of USB-C have more than doubled since it was introduced. Ultimately, it provides 4 balanced twisted-pair cables (which is the basis of most current wired data protocols - Ethernet, DisplayPort, USB4, HDMI, Thunderbolt) plus some power lines and a legacy USB 2 lane and a standard for negotiating what logical and electrical protocols those wires use. That leaves plenty of scope for better wired charging and data in the foreseeable future while retaining EU compatibility - while wireless or optical developments aren’t affected by the directive anyway.

I do sometimes wonder if it's a good idea for all usb-c cables to look the same, regardless of spec.
Yeah - USB-C is a million miles from perfect, but the perfect is the enemy of the good. There’s no alternative around, Lightning is end-of-life, MiniDP/TB2 is too big for mobiles… and asking the EU to design/commission the ultimate charge connector would be a disaster…

…at least in the case of phones and tablets, which only have room for one or two connectors, need a one-plug-does-it-all solution (with the consequential potential for mixups) and have always needed dongles for video/data connections. Apple prematurely stripping dedicated ports from laptops in favour of far fewer TB3 ports is a whole different argument.

All USB-C cables should trickle-charge charge your phone and not let the magic smoke out, though.
 
And I’d argue USB-C is (admittedly, slightly) worse from a shape perspective that lightening. Yes, USB-C superior for data speeds, power, and interoperability with other products, but it’s not as good at its primary job, being a connector.
Where the “other products” include virtually all Macs made since 2015.
Lightning can only “kinda sorta” support USB3 or 4K video because it doesn’t have enough data lanes.

The iPad Pro had to switch to get better data speeds and higher bandwidth video out, the top-end iPhone is being pushed for content creation and needed to follow. It makes zero sense not to use the same connector across the entire range.

At some point, the benefits of standardisation outweigh having an aesthetically slightly nicer connector.

If it helps, just think of USB-C as “Lightning 2” - Apple had a major role in its design and promotion so, honestly, Apple should be chuffed that the EU endorsed their connector.
 
Where the “other products” include virtually all Macs made since 2015.
Lightning can only “kinda sorta” support USB3 or 4K video because it doesn’t have enough data lanes.

The iPad Pro had to switch to get better data speeds and higher bandwidth video out, the top-end iPhone is being pushed for content creation and needed to follow. It makes zero sense not to use the same connector across the entire range.
I agree 100% My issue isn’t with USB-C, which again, I personally, prefer but rather 1) the idea from posters here that Apple delayed switching due to licensing money from MFi and 2) having the EU write the standard into law.

At some point, the benefits of standardisation outweigh having an aesthetically slightly nicer connector.
Again, agree to a point, but don’t think it should be written into law because it precludes better solutions from being designed and implemented.

If it helps, just think of USB-C as “Lightning 2” - Apple had a major role in its design and promotion so, honestly, Apple should be chuffed that the EU endorsed their connector.
I don’t care who designed it. I thin mandating a connector is a stupid idea. The EU is stuck with a worse EV charging cable (and won’t update the standard) because they mandated it too early before the market had time to work. Even if USB-C is the correct answer, it still shouldn’t be mandated (and again, it’s the answer I prefer at this moment).
 
I don’t think the company that decided the chips available weren’t good enough for its phones so spent an estimated TENS OF BILLIONS to design its own chips
They didn’t just design them for being better - it also saves them money.

in my experience Apple really does seem to care about what’s best for its customers
…such as shipping products with 32 GB of storage in 2021? (And no, I‘m not talking about Apple TV that can stream).
That offer to delete („offload“) apps somewhat you can successfully complete a system update?

The company that sold 128 GB of storage (base configuration) on their best-selling 13” MacBook Airs from 2008 until 2020?
When it would have cost… about a rounding to error to double the amount of storage?

👉 Thirteen years without increasing the storage capacity of flash memory?

“Best for consumers”? Give me a break!

Remember, Apple is estimated to finalize the design of iPhones 2 years prior to release. So, whichever year you think Apple should have switched the iPhone over to USB-C, subtract 2 years from that phone’s release date to determine when that decision was made. iPhone 14? Connector decided in 2020. 13? 2019. 12? 2018. etc. Maybe you do think USB-C was ubiquitous enough for Apple to make the switch in 2018 or before
I do think that Apple has a good grasp of what the smartphone market - or the charging cable/adapter) situation will look like two years ahead into the future.
 
The EU is stuck with a worse EV charging cable (and won’t update the standard) because they mandated it too early before the market had time to work.
If I needed to charge an EV, I’d rather need a standard cable that was supported at every charging station than a “better” cable that wasn’t.

Meanwhile, the infallible invisible hand of the market gave us marvels like VHS and the IBM PC “standard” run by monopolists… EU regulation gave us cellphones that would work across multiple competing networks when the US had regional monopolies…
 
…such as shipping products with 32 GB of storage in 2021? (And no, I‘m not talking about Apple TV that can stream).
That offer to delete („offload“) apps somewhat you can successfully complete a system update?

The company that sold 128 GB of storage (base configuration) on their best-selling 13” MacBook Airs from 2008 until 2020?
When it would have cost… about a rounding to error to double the amount of storage?

👉 Thirteen years without increasing the storage capacity of flash memory?

“Best for consumers”? Give me a break!
It’s basic business. You create what the consumer is willing to buy. Up until last year, that was still fine for 80%+ of consumers. Now the market is pushing for AI features.
 
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As much as I love the iPhone SE3 and the iPhone 8 form factor, we all knew this day had to come. It is time to clean the iPhone lineup, and simplify it with only USB-C models, peripherals and chargers.

Leave space for the upcoming iPhone SE4! Although I’m not sure if Apple will keep the iPhone 15 on sale along with the SE4…
 
Who are these people that wait 3/4/5yrs to buy a phone and are then devastated at the news the thing isn't about to be available. What have you been doing with your lives???
 
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I still want a new generation of the iPhone mini, though it doesn’t sound like this is what the next SE will be. I think unfortunate timing for the originals with COVID and people spending more time at home, but provided it gets a decent battery, a smaller screen phone is definitely preferable ergonomically.
 
I still want a new generation of the iPhone mini, though it doesn’t sound like this is what the next SE will be. I think unfortunate timing for the originals with COVID and people spending more time at home, but provided it gets a decent battery, a smaller screen phone is definitely preferable ergonomically.
Of course it doesn’t sound like that. We’ve know for years that the next iPhone SE won’t inherit the design of the iPhone mini, despite the denial of many users trying to convince themselves that it will be an iPhone mini SE.

Although I agree with the fact that iPhones are getting increasingly unergonomic and a size reduction is necessary. But the mini was a failure (sales wise) and the SE is a cheap phone aimed at masses.
 
Absolutely.

Let's not pretend they always "really care about what’s best for its customers".

I do believe that Apple does. Otherwise, people wouldn’t keep buying their stuff.

Just that their definition of “what’s best for the customer” may not always be the same as your interpretation thereof. For instance, ask anyone here what they want and the answer will always be something along the lines of “more for less money”, which is clearly at odds with how Apple operates.

You don’t run a successful business by giving customers everything they want. That’s a sure fire recipe for disaster.
 
I understand the frustration, but without this law, Apple would still be making current gen iPhones with a lightning port.
Just curious. What was so wrong with the lightning port that the European Union found it necessary to require a different port. Usually that kind of reg stifles creativity.
 
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Yeah - USB-C is a million miles from perfect, but the perfect is the enemy of the good. There’s no alternative around, Lightning is end-of-life, MiniDP/TB2 is too big for mobiles… and asking the EU to design/commission the ultimate charge connector would be a disaster…

…at least in the case of phones and tablets, which only have room for one or two connectors, need a one-plug-does-it-all solution (with the consequential potential for mixups) and have always needed dongles for video/data connections. Apple prematurely stripping dedicated ports from laptops in favour of far fewer TB3 ports is a whole different argument.

Someone showed me Apple's thunderbolt cable on the apple store, wondered why it cost so much, and I decided it wasn't a battle I wanted to fight, so I just smiled and shrugged as he went around telling the rest how Apple sells a $200 usb cable.🙃

Right now, I am willing to bet that the average consumer has absolutely zero idea what version of usb-c cable they are using, just that maybe one is a little longer and the other is a little thicker. It's heavily reminiscent of wifi bands when I was shopping for a router back then, saw terms like "a/b/g/n/ac" and was like "Who the heck names these things?!?" They then had wifi 6 (which at least telegraphs that its better than wifi 5), then proceeded to announce wifi 6E, basically undoing any progress the committee may have had on the naming front.🤨

Maybe if the EU feels compelled to want to stick their nose into every single thing, perhaps they could look at regulating how these cables are named or something? What exactly is the endgame here? Wait for technological advancement to petter out and hope that we all standardise around thunderbolt 6 for all cables or something?
 
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People in the EU should be celebrating! You guys brought Apple to its knees! You got Fortnite! You got side loaded apps and you even got the connector you wanted!

Who cares about lower cost phones affordable to less fortunate folks?

Those people don't matter, right?

iPhone 14 is no where near cheap and affordable, lol.

And it is crime to sell an almost three years old iPhone SE with the same price three years ago. iPhone SE 3 retails price is rip off.

There are plenty of lower cost phones in the EU market, unlike here in North America. People can always look for refurbished or used market for even cheaper devices.
 
I do believe that Apple does. Otherwise, people wouldn’t keep buying their stuff.

Just that their definition of “what’s best for the customer” may not always be the same as your interpretation thereof
Having more storage is strictly better than not having it.

Especially when we're talking 32GB on iPads or 256GB on Macs. When even my mother's iPad and MacBook come quite close to filling up their base storage, these devices have very little of it.

There's no "interpretation thereof" required.

You don’t run a successful business by giving customers everything they want. That’s a sure fire recipe for disaster.
Sure thing.

So again, let's not pretend they always "really care about what’s best for its customers".
 
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