Report: Apple's OpenAI Lawsuit Threatens iPhone Rival Plans

[Le_Chiffre]

Dead on arrival.

 

[CarAnalogy]

Ive is a design guy not a hardware engineer.

Right, but he's credited with the "design" of the iPhone, the part you touch.

Just like that Ferrari he did recently.

I don't mean his hardware engineering skills, I mean what he does with the things I have to interact with. Aside from the iPhone, he does not have a good track record in my opinion. He needed Jobs.

 

[963852741]

I think it is probably easier than you think. You don't just slap Android on it. You wrap Android with an AI agent. That allows you to provide the entire function and integration of an Android ecosystem without having to "invent an operating system [...], and then an entire supporting ecosystem of devices".

How you make that AI agent an intuitive, fully featured, and compelling interface for the user is the hard part. But that is the part where OpenAI and Jony Ive claim superior expertise. I hope they can get it into production before their funding bubble pops.

You miss a small part of the whole story, which is time, that they don't have and even then we had "an iPhone killer of the week" back in the day.

 

[Rogifan]

This just sounds like Gurman spitballing, not that he has any inside information.

 

[Non-Euclidean]

So there will be a countersuit from Apple employees about restricting their ability to be hired anywhere if this is true. They've already lost once doing this, so I don't see this working in Apple's favor.

You might want to familiarize yourself with the concept of IP (Intellectual Property).

 

[I7guy]

It sounds like these engineers are worth a lot more than what Apple is willing to pay them. Maybe they need to reprioritize their assets before they let the investors squeeze every last drop of profit out of their payroll budget.

There’s nothing wrong with going to the competition. Just don’t bring trade secrets to the party.

 

[Gorlammi]

I think it is probably easier than you think. You don't just slap Android on it. You wrap Android with an AI agent. That allows you to provide the entire function and integration of an Android ecosystem without having to "invent an operating system [...], and then an entire supporting ecosystem of devices".

How you make that AI agent an intuitive, fully featured, and compelling interface for the user is the hard part. But that is the part where OpenAI and Jony Ive claim superior expertise. I hope they can get it into production before their funding bubble pops.

I can see value in an agentic UI, if it is actually done well. Having it entirely replace manual user interaction is a big leap. Agents may be far better than traditional assistants, but they share the same problem which is the second they make things take longer than doing it yourself manually, the user loses all confidence.

 

[jz0309]

This just sounds like Gurman spitballing, not that he has any inside information.

Aka click-bait ... nothing unusual from him

 

[Lounge vibes 05]

Apple is afraid new Open AI device might threaten their dominance? Now I’m listening. I was very uninterested in this anticipated device but now I think it is going to be much more significant than anything we have seen since 2007

You mean the device that was announced last year, but not really announced because there was nothing to announce, and apparently it’s coming this year with an announcement, but now it’s not coming with an announcement, and now it’s being pushed to 2027 or 2028, and the fact that open AI won’t even be profitable until 2029 at the earliest? Yeah, that product

 

[963852741]

You mean the device that was announced last year, but not really announced because there was nothing to announce, and apparently it’s coming this year with an announcement, but now it’s not coming with an announcement, and now it’s being pushed to 2027 or 2028, and the fact that open AI won’t even be profitable until 2029 at the earliest? Yeah, that product

Not a single "AI" company will ever be profitable.

 

[lfaa]

To my knowledge (I haven’t finished reading the affidavit), that’s not what Apple is arguing. Apple doesn’t want those other companies to get Apple’s intellectual property and trade secrets when hiring those employees.

To put it another way, you as a baker can go work for another bakery but you can’t take the sourdough starter or any recipes with you.

Yeah but everything is in your brain

 

[LogicalApex]

They are not worth more to Apple, they are worth more to OpenAI, because they have Apple IP knowledge. OpenAI is willing to pay more because they think they will get information about apple products, Apple already has this information, so they aren’t worth as much to Apple.

That would be inaccurate. If Apple thinks OpenAI is a viable threat then the risk to Apple raises the value of that talent for Apple.

Said, another way, if Apple were the only customer of a gas station in the middle of nowhere near its factory for its trucks. Then Apple is more valuable to the gas station than the gas station is to Apple. As a result, Apple will squeeze them much more tightly on pricing. If another company moves in needing to use that same gas station for its trucks with similar size and needs of Apple. The inverse is now true. The Gas Station is now more important to Apple than Apple is to the Gas Station. Even though the driver of that value is fully external to Apple.

You can apply the same reality to Apple's employees...

 

[Happy_John]

Ive is a design guy not a hardware engineer.

And, as yet, there is no hardware. What there has been is a lot of vague aspirational waffle about a piece of hardware possibly being released at some undefined point in the future.

It is hard to be overly worried about something that does not exist.

 

[Happy_John]

Yeah but everything is in your brain

And that's why there are Non-Disclosure Agreements.

Did the employees sign an NDA when they began work with Apple? If so, they cannot share or use anything covered in that NDA in their next job. It doesn't matter if it's in their brains or not.

 

[963852741]

And, as yet, there is no hardware. What there has been is a lot of vague aspirational waffle about a piece of hardware possibly being released at some undefined point in the future.

It is hard to be overly worried about something that does not exist.

They all are running a con anyway. Like for example Anthropic released a statement how Mythos is so powerful that it can destabilise economies etc., so they can't release to it to the public😀 Everybody lost their marbles when in reality they are running a circus con from the 50's.

 

[svish]

Will be interesting to see what happens and also waiting to see the first device from OpenAI.

 

[Happy_John]

That would be inaccurate. If Apple thinks OpenAI is a viable threat then the risk to Apple raises the value of that talent for Apple.

Said, another way, if Apple were the only customer of a gas station in the middle of nowhere near its factory for its trucks. Then Apple is more valuable to the gas station than the gas station is to Apple. As a result, Apple will squeeze them much more tightly on pricing. If another company moves in needing to use that same gas station for its trucks with similar size and needs of Apple. The inverse is now true. The Gas Station is now more important to Apple than Apple is to the Gas Station. Even though the driver of that value is fully external to Apple.

You can apply the same reality to Apple's employees...

This argument is irrelevant. Apple is suing OpenAI over IP theft, Apple is not suing OpenAI as being a potential competitor in the consumer device market.

If Apple can prove that OpenAI did deliberately attempt to steal many off Apple's IP, it's irrelevant if Apple or worried or not about OpenAI breleasing a legitimate product that would be a credible threat to the iPhone.

 

[Ferrandix]

OpenAI will fail spectacularly. The real issue is that OpenAI knows the only way to justify its massive investment in the long run is to build its own ecosystem and create a product people can genuinely love. As a service provider, you can be replaced at any moment.


OpenAI’s window of opportunity is also very small. If Apple manages to integrate AI properly into the iPhone, OpenAI is in serious trouble.


OpenAI is desperate. It has one or two years to launch something compelling enough to win people over, build user loyalty, and establish an ecosystem of its own. In that desperation, it has probably made mistakes.

 

[Happy_John]

They all are running a con anyway. Like for example Anthropic released a statement how Mythos is so powerful that it can destabilise economies etc., so they can't release to it to the public😀 Everybody lost their marbles when in reality they are running a circus con from the 50's.

In the real-world, this legal action is potentially very bad news for OpenAI. That their hardware product is vaporware, or folps completely, isn't that big a deal for them right now. All that matters is that it sounds good that they are about to release a "game changing" hardware device.

Because it's all about the IPO.

A massive mount of money has been invested in OpenAI, and the only way all the investors up until this point can recoup that investment, or hopefully gain a return on that investment, is via a successful IPO. If that happens, it'll be "pump and dump" and the original investors will be happy.

Anything that threatens a successful IPO is going to cause those investors to pick up their pitchforks and flaming torches. And if Apple has a solid case, which it sounds like they do, there'll be no point defending OpenAI.

 

[Happy_John]

OpenAI will fail spectacularly. The real issue is that OpenAI knows the only way to justify its massive investment in the long run is to build its own ecosystem and create a product people can genuinely love. As a service provider, you can be replaced at any moment.


OpenAI’s window of opportunity is also very small. If Apple manages to integrate AI properly into the iPhone, OpenAI is in serious trouble.


OpenAI is desperate. It has one or two years to launch something compelling enough to win people over, build user loyalty, and establish an ecosystem of its own. In that desperation, it has probably made mistakes.

Not even that. OpenAI are desperate to have a successful IPO, and they are desperate to do so sooner rather than later. That's the only way to not have their investors turn on them.

 

[963852741]

Not even that. OpenAI are desperate to have a successful IPO, and they are desperate to do so sooner rather than later. That's the only way to not have their investors turn on them.

Altman is doing the same ponzi scheme he did with Loopt.

 

[jhende7]

Thats not what this article is saying though. Its saying that people wouldn't even be interested in interviewing because of concerns from Apple Security. Thats anticompetitive, and Apple has already lost in court with agreements of limiting poaching.

Of course you can't bring the code you brought over, but thats obvious and nothing new here. The lawsuit would have no impact on this from a user point of view because it’s already something you aren't doing.

Reading comprehension my guy - they did steal IP (not proven in court though). The article is saying people will be reluctant to leave for open AI because the two companies are now involved in a large lawsuit; there will be extra scrutiny on those employees because some of them could be asked to bring IP with them to get the job and could get caught up in the lawsuit. It’s not about not letting employees go- it’s the big dark cloud over the company now that will cause the reluctance.

 

[LogicalApex]

This argument is irrelevant. Apple is suing OpenAI over IP theft, Apple is not suing OpenAI as being a potential competitor in the consumer device market.

If Apple can prove that OpenAI did deliberately attempt to steal many off Apple's IP, it's irrelevant if Apple or worried or not about OpenAI breleasing a legitimate product that would be a credible threat to the iPhone.

Apple can't sue just because a company become a competitor to them. There is nothing illegal about fair competition...

Apple is suing them for IP theft because they see them as a rapidly emerging threat that's using Apple IP to compete. So, Apple is suing them for being a competitor, but not JUST because they are a competitor.

 

[vantelimus]

You miss a small part of the whole story, which is time, that they don't have and even then we had "an iPhone killer of the week" back in the day.

Not really. Reread the last line of what I wrote. That was an expression of skepticism about their ability to get it to market in time.

 

[Happy_John]

Right, but he's credited with the "design" of the iPhone, the part you touch.

Just like that Ferrari he did recently.

I don't mean his hardware engineering skills, I mean what he does with the things I have to interact with. Aside from the iPhone, he does not have a good track record in my opinion. He needed Jobs.

At this point, he's a "name" - OpenAI just want the cachet the name brings. Credibility by association.

Whether that name really does add any value will only be known when or if the product is ever shipped.