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It sounds like these engineers are worth a lot more than what Apple is willing to pay them. Maybe they need to reprioritize their assets before they let the investors squeeze every last drop of profit out of their payroll budget.
It’s really about the potential upside of the stock options. I’d guess the salaries are comparable to Apple’s, maybe with a small bump to encourage a job move, but the chance to get pre-IPO stock that could greatly outperform Apple’s in a short period is very enticing.
 
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Apple can't sue just because a company become a competitor to them. There is nothing illegal about fair competition...

Apple is suing them for IP theft because they see them as a rapidly emerging threat that's using Apple IP to compete. So, Apple is suing them for being a competitor, but not JUST because they are a competitor.

No, Apple is suing them for theft. That's it.

Apple would have to sue any company for IP theft, irrespective if they were worried about the thief being a valid competitor or not. Because to not sue would be to show that "it's OK to steal from Apple", and no company can allow that, especially with OpenAI being literally based down the road from them.

If you neighbor steals your car, do you take legal action again him/her because you are worried they might be a better driver than you, or because they stole your property?

The narrative on sites like this that it is a means of reducing the risk of a competitor is simply clickbait. A salacious narrative, but it's soap opera narrative. The implication is that Apple would not take such a legal action if they weren't worried about legitimate conception, which is nonsense.

OpenAI do not have a product to compete with the iPhone. The various AI wearable pins and badges shipped by other "dedicated AI devices" flopped. The threat of legitimate competition is not a driver behind the action. The driver. behind the action is to show that Apple will not allow people to steal from them.
 
Reading comprehension my guy - they did steal IP (not proven in court though). The article is saying people will be reluctant to leave for open AI because the two companies are now involved in a large lawsuit; there will be extra scrutiny on those employees because some of them could be asked to bring IP with them to get the job and could get caught up in the lawsuit. It’s not about not letting employees go- it’s the big dark cloud over the company now that will cause the reluctance.
Asking questions before responding my guy...thats what I'm saying about people leaving.

I never mentioned anywhere about people stealing IP so I'm not sure why you are.
 
I think Ive started to lose marbles still while at Apple and the fact that he got more and more snobbish with age doesn't help either.
He did some great stuff. It doesn't mean he does great stuff now.

Realistically, he's already minted, so he doesn't need to.

Famous designers aren't that different to rock stars, they can kick back and tread water once they've established themselves as royalty in their field.

The annoying thing about Ive is that he either knows he's effectively retired, but is playing along, or he believes too much of his own hype.

Never believe your own hype. Don't get high off your own supply. ( Lots of people in the tech industry seem to climb down this rabbit-hole ).
 
That would be inaccurate. If Apple thinks OpenAI is a viable threat then the risk to Apple raises the value of that talent for Apple.

Said, another way, if Apple were the only customer of a gas station in the middle of nowhere near its factory for its trucks. Then Apple is more valuable to the gas station than the gas station is to Apple. As a result, Apple will squeeze them much more tightly on pricing. If another company moves in needing to use that same gas station for its trucks with similar size and needs of Apple. The inverse is now true. The Gas Station is now more important to Apple than Apple is to the Gas Station. Even though the driver of that value is fully external to Apple.

You can apply the same reality to Apple's employees...
That analogy doesn't exactly work, because the gas is worth the same to both companies. The "gas"/employees have inside knowledge to Apple, this is more valuable to OpenAI, than it is to Apple. Apple(and all tech companies) has(have) NDAs and legal means to keep that information secret. OpenAI is trying to pay the employees more, to get them to leave Apple, and then illegally obtain that information from the employees.

If the Apple had a legal agreement with the gas station that said you could only sell to us. Then some other company moved in then the gas company is now more valuable to the new company, but because of the legal agreement, its still the same value to Apple, unless the new company tries to illegally obtain the gas from the gas station.
 
You mean the device that was announced last year, but not really announced because there was nothing to announce, and apparently it’s coming this year with an announcement, but now it’s not coming with an announcement, and now it’s being pushed to 2027 or 2028, and the fact that open AI won’t even be profitable until 2029 at the earliest? Yeah, that product
I guess. I wonder what took them so long. Or was it purely a marketing ploy and nothing more. I hope we will see it soon, it will either be trash or great, they cannot settle with “ok” because it is supposed to be some sort of new product category, people won’t be getting it just because it is “ok”
 
Asking questions before responding my guy...thats what I'm saying about people leaving.

I never mentioned anywhere about people stealing IP so I'm not sure why you are.
There would be nothing to back up a suit against Apple for this, unless there's explicit proof written somewhere that says that they planned to sue OpenAI in order to cast a shadow over the company in order to prevent employees from wanting to move there. Apple isn't responsible for how people perceive their prospects at another company.

And if they have evidence that OpenAI was stealing trade secrets (which they say they do), it makes sense that they'd become more skeptical of people who move there now. They can't prevent them from moving, but they can tighten NDAs and remind people of the consequences of disclosing confidential information.
 
You would think with OpenAI's insane cap ex, they would be looking to markets they have a shot in like Government or Research. To waste any time and money on the consumer market is insanely stupid. They have already lost out to Anthropic on the consumer coding side and now with Apple and Google launching competent AI systems on their devices OpenAI stands no shot, nor does Meta or xAI.

You cannot compete with devices that already have all of our content to make using AI actually useful. Regardless of your opinions on AI, context aware is significantly better than a Chatbot on browser page. And thats before we even begin to talk about privacy.
If they have the goal of harvesting a lot of information about their customers, and trying to lock them into an ecosystem they control, hardware is a very tempting goal to pursue despite the barriers to entry.
Remember that pre-Meta Facebook came out with a Facebook phone, and Amazon had the Fire phone and still has a Fire tablet line.
 
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To my knowledge (I haven’t finished reading the affidavit), that’s not what Apple is arguing. Apple doesn’t want those other companies to get Apple’s intellectual property and trade secrets when hiring those employees.

To put it another way, you as a baker can go work for another bakery but you can’t take the sourdough starter or any recipes with you.
Exactly, but good luck proving the other sourdough bread recipe was stollen (bread joke) from the other one.
 
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Exactly, but good luck proving the other sourdough bread recipe was stollen (bread joke) from the other one.
It pretty easy if you gave an internal confidential document containing said recipe from the previous bakery to your manager at the new bakery. That document didn't magically appear in the new bakery. Fairies didn't wave their magic wands. Someone did it, and if that someone was you, then ....

It does sound very much like Apple has a solid (digital) paper trail.
 
Apple can't sue just because a company become a competitor to them. There is nothing illegal about fair competition...
Except in the EU. Specifically if you’re a non-EU company. If you’re a company that competed well WITHOUT engaging in activities monopolists engage in, you’ll still be targeted simply because they just can’t abide fairly obtained success of any kind. 🙂
 
OpenAI will fail spectacularly. The real issue is that OpenAI knows the only way to justify its massive investment in the long run is to build its own ecosystem and create a product people can genuinely love. As a service provider, you can be replaced at any moment.


OpenAI’s window of opportunity is also very small. If Apple manages to integrate AI properly into the iPhone, OpenAI is in serious trouble.


OpenAI is desperate. It has one or two years to launch something compelling enough to win people over, build user loyalty, and establish an ecosystem of its own. In that desperation, it has probably made mistakes.
OpenAI tried the easiest of easy plays, making a browser. Low barrier to entry, opportunity for folks to experience, be delighted by and use and then that could be parlayed into other initiatives building from those learning experiences.

They’re ending development of their browser. “Hey guys, browsers are hard, we know that now. Know what’s easier? HARDWARE!” 😀
 
I am sure that doing this sort of thing (pushing for info on starting a new job) is illegal because of the contracts and nda's you sign. Double trouble. The two Chinese guys are probably in a world of hurt along with the company.
 
I think a lot of his Apple rumors are people inside leaking to him. This doesn’t appear to be that.
imho most of his "news" are fed by Apple, there might be a small number of "leakers" (employees who reach out to him without Apple's knowledge) and I a free with your 2nd sentence, this is his opinion only
 
Canceling an ill-conceived phone idea is the best gift this lawsuit could give OpenAI. The chances of it becoming a success are so remote and so many versions in the future that no investor would allow it to reach that point. It would just be another write off on OpenAI's increasingly worrying balance sheet.
 
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<...>

OpenAI do not have a product to compete with the iPhone. The various AI wearable pins and badges shipped by other "dedicated AI devices" flopped. The threat of legitimate competition is not a driver behind the action. The driver. behind the action is to show that Apple will not allow people to steal from them.

Like this turkey!

 
I remember when Steve Jobs originally founded NeXT, he had to sign an agreement with Apple where Apple was allowed to review NeXT’s prototypes to ensure they weren’t infringing on any of Apple’s patents.

Jobs would probably be spinning in his grave if he found out Jony Ive is in cahoots with a company that’s now brazenly committing corporate espionage against Apple.

Yes though I could also imagine this not sitting well with Ive. I wonder if he’ll distance himself from OpenAI…
 
I don't understand the "iPhone rival" label.

To be an iPhone rival, you need to invent an operating system better than iOS, and then an entire supporting ecosystem of devices and operating systems and cloud services and content.

The hardware is the absolute least of it. Building another generic slab and slapping Android on it is just another entry in the vast sea of Android crap.
I imagine they are looking to make ChatGPT the OS, at least the front end. But if I'm writing a novel or a dissertation or something, I still need to actually write, in an app of some kind. If I'm a graphic designer or visual artist, the same. AI can be a good partner that can expand and accelerate the amount of work I can do, but as long as I want to do work myself, I still need to interact with other kinds of tools.

Anyway, Open AI is likely to go bankrupt. The future is smaller LLMs that can be run locally. Apple, Gemini, perhaps Claude (if only because it's integration tools are so good), and some Chinese AIs are going to be more financially viable IMO.
 
Makes me think of this:
img_5643-jpeg.2645266
 

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