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I asked the guy showing me around about it and he described what they were to me - they were just like this factory in the article - walled, self contained cities where workers would stay until the job was complete.

I was shocked.

Not many years ago, there were a few British army bases in Germany (Rheindahlen, for example). They were not walled, but there was a fence around them. And many people living in these army bases (soldiers, soldiers' wives, non-military personnel) did not once venture into the country around them. It seems they were ******** themselves at the thought of getting into contact with Germans. Or maybe it was the thought of being confronted with real beer and real sausages, not what they call beer and sausages in Britain.

I was shocked. :D

Just remembered: The last time there was a report about Apple and working conditions in China, the press claimed that "most complaints by the workers were related to overtime". The actual report said that "most workers complained that they could often not get as much overtime as they wanted". But that is what happens when they report about Apple.

I think the repeated claims of "ignorance" are a bit out of line. So you think workers in China are treated properly? You know of all the human rights complaints against the government, correct? Are you positive that Chinese workers are paid overtime?

Apparently they are getting paid for overtime, at least those working indirectly for Apple, or they wouldn't complain that there isn't enough overtime.
 
In your dreams mate.

Workers work there for above average pay, that's it.

Just be thankful that you're the beneficiary of globalization and the almighty dollar, despite the fact the later is looking increasingly shaky.

Yeah, my comment was tounge-in-cheek.

Your right though, life is bliss being the Mr. Rushton of the world, huh?

I think Apple and I will have to part ways.

I have been a long time user of Apple, but this!

This information about how apple operates it's manufacturing process has genuinely caught you off guard?

Good! Sell it please and bye bye! Have you been there? I know I work my rear end off for a living and there's things I have to adhere towards to keep employed. No big deal... if the people are so mistreated then they would quit! Please, go sell your apple products!!! Get rid of yet another critic.

Firstly, to think the ailments that you face at your job are in anyway comparable to those that a Chinese factory worker faces is beyond misguided.

So your solution is that they should quit? And get what job instead?

Maybe he could shy away from the 'oppressive' conditions of the Foxconn, and find a job in the nearby barber shop, spending the end of his days merrily whistling as he works. :rolleyes:
 
The "THESE GUARDS MEAN BUSINESS" part is an eyeopener. :(
Very interesting read.

And you do realize that China has people in prison that are work release prisoners ?

The Chinese look at it as the workers have a roof over there head facilities and shopping and work for cheap.

There was coverage of this in the news a few years back
 
Those of you who oppose these working conditions should immediately boycott Apple and buy Dell products instead. Made in Texas, right?

Oh, wait... maybe not.

Well, maybe Sony?

Hmm.

HP?

Nope, still Foxconn.

Well, you could just assemble your own PC, made of parts built here in North America. Like, um... hmmm...

You know what, let's boycott PCs altogether, and just stick to consumer electronics like your Xbox, Wii, or PS3, a basic cell phone, and... wait, what?

So tell me again how this is all Apple's fault?

SAD!
 
I think Apple and I will have to part ways.

I have been a long time user of Apple, but this!

Human dignity and rights just thrown away for a home computer?!?!! and a mediocre phone!!?!?!

Someone some where should stop this idiotic company, we talk about Microsoft, but they have never stamped out freedom and dignity of its workers.

I'll give you 500.00 dollars for the 17" macbook pro your using since you find this so bad.

If it bothers you so much than join the Peace Corp and travel to far off distant countries and see others live.

Sometimes it takes articles like this to wake up AMERICA so that you know just how GOOD you have it and take it for granted.

But the offer stands on your MBP 17inch, does it have applecare also?

America , cannot take care of its own citizens, homeless, veterans and deficit and you want us to run off and tell china that there evil and need to be like America. Your intentions are great but did you take the blue or the red pill today
 
A lot worse

You forgot to mention in your report that the photographer, who wanted to take a picture of the building from the roadside has been beaten up by the security guards of the "company", who also tried to kidnap him.
 
Good! Sell it please and bye bye! Have you been there? I know I work my rear end off for a living and there's things I have to adhere towards to keep employed. No big deal... if the people are so mistreated then they would quit! Please, go sell your apple products!!! Get rid of yet another critic.

And I suppose you do not care about recycling, animal testing, global warming and Adolph Hitler was just another president of a country.

Go support human enslavement and when it happens to you, I will laugh. When your children (hopefully not) grow up and they have to deal with the trash you left behind, I will laugh.

Apple has turned into something worse than anythiing Microsoft could have been or was.

Critic, yes I am one of millions that will watch Apple's demise for being a piece of garbage for a dollar bill.
 
I'll give you 500.00 dollars for the 17" macbook pro your using since you find this so bad.

If it bothers you so much than join the Peace Corp and travel to far off distant countries and see others live.

Sometimes it takes articles like this to wake up AMERICA so that you know just how GOOD you have it and take it for granted.

But the offer stands on your MBP 17inch, does it have applecare also?

America , cannot take care of its own citizens, homeless, veterans and deficit and you want us to run off and tell china that there evil and need to be like America. Your intentions are great but did you take the blue or the red pill today

No, we do not have to tell China or any body else how to live, BUT, we as a nation of all different races, DO NOT HAVE TO promote it! or invest in it.

Our nation was born to get rid of oppression from governments and the like, that includes companies in todays environment.

I am done, off the soapbox. I can do my small part and not support it by not giving them (Apple) my money.
 
I'll give you 500.00 dollars for the 17" macbook pro your using since you find this so bad.

If it bothers you so much than join the Peace Corp and travel to far off distant countries and see others live.

Sometimes it takes articles like this to wake up AMERICA so that you know just how GOOD you have it and take it for granted.

But the offer stands on your MBP 17inch, does it have applecare also?

America , cannot take care of its own citizens, homeless, veterans and deficit and you want us to run off and tell china that there evil and need to be like America. Your intentions are great but did you take the blue or the red pill today

NOT A CHANCE, you support Apple and it's psycho world domination and rule.

Hey go to work for Apple, I am sure they will give you a laptop and tell you what to eat, buy, when you can go to the bathroom and such.
 
Yeah, my comment was tounge-in-cheek.

Your right though, life is bliss being the Mr. Rushton of the world, huh?



This information about how apple operates it's manufacturing process has genuinely caught you off guard?



Firstly, to think the ailments that you face at your job are in anyway comparable to those that a Chinese factory worker faces is beyond misguided.

So your solution is that they should quit? And get what job instead?

Maybe he could shy away from the 'oppressive' conditions of the Foxconn, and find a job in the nearby barber shop, spending the end of his days merrily whistling as he works. :rolleyes:

Yes, it did catch me off guard. I do not go out and research companies in general. Apple says they are Green, they say we are opening stores to support us the consumer, etc, etc. I generally listen, but now I am not listening anymore.
 
NOT A CHANCE, you support Apple and it's psycho world domination and rule.

Hey go to work for Apple, I am sure they will give you a laptop and tell you what to eat, buy, when you can go to the bathroom and such.

Dude your kinda sorta blowing this out of proportion but hey its all good.

I'll give you 400 for the 17"mbp and you pay shipping , if your so disgusted with apple that piece of aluminum should be formatted and listed in the marketplace by now.........................

Better yet close your eyes and click your heals and tell toto your going to china
 
There are hundreds of companies in this country that have to adhere to even stricter security requirements.

Ever heard of Honeywell, Boeing, Lockheed Martin, Nextel, Motorola, Exxon, etc.? These and hundreds of other companies all have defense contracts with the US government where sharing secrets is punishable by imprisonment. In the most top-secret facilities sometimes workers are required to live on premises until the project is completed – just like they did with The Manhattan Project back in the 1940’s.

Apple requires it’s purveyors to keep a lid on company secrets, how those companies carry out these requirements is their business.
 
I used to work in the Cork plant, and it also had X-ray scanners for both employees and their bags. It had more to do with preventing theft (which did occur) than the removal of prototypes, though that of course would also have been stopped. They probably have them at all manufacturing plants.

I was in the facility of one of Apple's Taiwanese manufacturing partners (not Foxconn) a few years back, and by comparison it was very laid-back and relaxed. Of course, part of that might be because I was a visitor; but in Cork we had swipe cards and keycodes on almost every door. Walking down the corridor in Cork was like the opening sequence to Get Smart; there was little like that in the Taiwan plant.

Still, I have little doubt their employees are treated with very little care. It's the same everywhere - unless you have rare skills, they don't give a damn about you. If you won't work for a pittance and/or accept draconian work practices, we can easily find someone else who will.
 
I think the repeated claims of "ignorance" are a bit out of line. So you think workers in China are treated properly? You know of all the human rights complaints against the government, correct? Are you positive that Chinese workers are paid overtime?

Please look up the phrase "the fish stinks from the head." It has nothing to do with being a delicacy. The point is conditions are exacerbated by Apple's ridiculous levels of secrecy, and that corporate culture returns to one man. The phrase fits perfectly in this case.

P.S. Many MANY people avoid "made in China" products as much as possible. Likening myself, or anyone else, to the unabomber because they don't like Chinese working conditions is a straw man argument, and strikes of the very "ignorance" you like to toss around on others.

The sole point is that Apple's, and Steve Job's, culture worsens conditions for the people of China. That is what is being reported by Reuters. Period.

The article is a big pile of sensationalist fluff. Even if Apple was not involved Foxconn would still have the same sort of security measures in place. And, it is probably more than likely that Foxconn is probably paying off the police department to provide "special treatment". You need to read more news on China and the power that money has here. It is something that the government is actually trying to correct and has actually gone on an "anti-corruption" campaign. Every night there are commercials on TV encouraging people to report acts of corruption.

The fish head comment I made was "tongue in cheek". But honestly, they are actually quite tasty.

The "human rights violations claims" that you are calling out have nothing to do with the treatment of factory and migrant workers. They have to do with maintaining control of autonomous regions, and the rights of free speech.

However, if you want to get onto the treatment of Chinese migrant workers and whether it is ethical or not I can go into detail on that subject. Please feel free to ask me all you like. I work at a factory where all but about 20 people do not live on campus. I have meetings with them everyday, I work with them on quality issues, and I eat in the same cafeteria with them (yep, that's right the lowly migrant workers). We all walk up and scoop our meal from the same big ass bucket of rice and the same buckets of vegetables that they bring out for them at lunch. After I am done eating I wash my dishes in the same out door sink that they use and I go back to work. The rest of them run back to the dormitory and sleep for the remainder of their hour and a half lunch break.

The dorms are not air conditioned, nor do they have heat. But, then again neither does my apartment. Over the CNY holiday it has been in the 50's and I have found it quite unpleasant. But, then again the majority of the people in Guangdong province live this way. It has been a fact of life here for the last 5000 years that they can remember, just ask them.

At my company we have guards and we have walls surrounding the factory. China is filled with poor people unfortunately and it is a simple fact of life that there are a few select people that will steal anything that is not locked down or guarded. However, the guards do protect the company from industrial espionage as well. The guards are not there to keep the factory workers locked in or anything ridiculous like that. But I can tell you that if a stranger were to come up and start getting obnoxious or trying to do things that were not "normal" they would probably get into some sort of altercation. You really cannot count on local police either. It is just a fact of life here, it is just something that you would have to witness first hand.

Is it pleasant? No, I guess when I first came here it wasn't and I found it some what hard to digest. However, now that I have witnessed it firsthand and got to know the people and understand the relationships that they have with the company I can honestly tell you that they are not mistreated or have had their human rights violated in anyway.

With all this being said you can look at China and the current situation and take the approach that you are not going to do any sort of business with China. If everyone were to have this mindset and approach things would never change or improve here. China is a vital part of the world ecomony and we will all be dependent on their success in the future. Stonewalling the Chinese or telling them how they are going to do things will never work. Things will change on their own as people amass more money. I am witnessing it firsthand.

You have to remember that westerners are trying to cram 130 years of industrial development (and everything else) into the last 20 or so years here in China (I know it is closer to 30 but things started taking off in the last 20). Along with that you have the growing pains of people learning to use disposable products and dispose of them properly, learning how to drive on a highway when they are barely capable of forming a line for a train ride. It is really quite chaotic and sometimes quite frustrating. But, on the other hand I have met some of the kindest and genuine people since I have been here.

I think that probably the best thing you could do for your narrow mind is to sell all of your Apple products and buy a plane ticket over here. Stay here for a month or two and see what really goes on. Then you can go home and run your mouth about how bad things are over here.
 
Yes, it did catch me off guard. I do not go out and research companies in general. Apple says they are Green, they say we are opening stores to support us the consumer, etc, etc. I generally listen, but now I am not listening anymore.

My lord, how easily influenced you are.

(Oh, wait, quick skim through your prior posts sees you talking about how Vista works better than OS X. And as a "long time Apple supporter", why'd you supposedly say back in '07 you gave up Apple and sold your 17" MBP for a Vista tablet? Now I know not to take you seriously, so why not just stop trolling while you're ahead.)
 
1219_jobs.jpg
 

Perhaps, but whose fault is it?

In the post that you replied to I gave a few examples of products that this one company, Foxconn, makes (computers and consumer electronics). I don't know if you realize how many other things you use on a daily basis are also created in factories just like this one. The very clothes you are wearing. Your shoes. The chair you are sitting in. Possibly your car. Certainly some of the parts inside your car, even if the car itself was assembled in USA or Germany or wherever.

The toaster you made your breakfast with. The microwave you heated up your leftovers in. The blankets that kept you warm last night.

All of those things are made in factories just like the one described here! The notion of a campus is not new -- where did you live when you went to university/college? The notion of secure working environments is not new -- I'm typing this from one right now, since I work in that kind of an industry.

If this is shocking and horrible to you, then fine, but don't make out like it's shocking and horrible just because the name Apple shows up in the conversation.
 
The article is a big pile of sensationalist fluff. Even if Apple was not involved Foxconn would still have the same sort of security measures in place. And, it is probably more than likely that Foxconn is probably paying off the police department to provide "special treatment". You need to read more news on China and the power that money has here. It is something that the government is actually trying to correct and has actually gone on an "anti-corruption" campaign. Every night there are commercials on TV encouraging people to report acts of corruption.

The fish head comment I made was "tongue in cheek". But honestly, they are actually quite tasty.

The "human rights violations claims" that you are calling out have nothing to do with the treatment of factory and migrant workers. They have to do with maintaining control of autonomous regions, and the rights of free speech.

However, if you want to get onto the treatment of Chinese migrant workers and whether it is ethical or not I can go into detail on that subject. Please feel free to ask me all you like. I work at a factory where all but about 20 people do not live on campus. I have meetings with them everyday, I work with them on quality issues, and I eat in the same cafeteria with them (yep, that's right the lowly migrant workers). We all walk up and scoop our meal from the same big ass bucket of rice and the same buckets of vegetables that they bring out for them at lunch. After I am done eating I wash my dishes in the same out door sink that they use and I go back to work. The rest of them run back to the dormitory and sleep for the remainder of their hour and a half lunch break.

The dorms are not air conditioned, nor do they have heat. But, then again neither does my apartment. Over the CNY holiday it has been in the 50's and I have found it quite unpleasant. But, then again the majority of the people in Guangdong province live this way. It has been a fact of life here for the last 5000 years that they can remember, just ask them.

At my company we have guards and we have walls surrounding the factory. China is filled with poor people unfortunately and it is a simple fact of life that there are a few select people that will steal anything that is not locked down or guarded. However, the guards do protect the company from industrial espionage as well. The guards are not there to keep the factory workers locked in or anything ridiculous like that. But I can tell you that if a stranger were to come up and start getting obnoxious or trying to do things that were not "normal" they would probably get into some sort of altercation. You really cannot count on local police either. It is just a fact of life here, it is just something that you would have to witness first hand.

Is it pleasant? No, I guess when I first came here it wasn't and I found it some what hard to digest. However, now that I have witnessed it firsthand and got to know the people and understand the relationships that they have with the company I can honestly tell you that they are not mistreated or have had their human rights violated in anyway.

With all this being said you can look at China and the current situation and take the approach that you are not going to do any sort of business with China. If everyone were to have this mindset and approach things would never change or improve here. China is a vital part of the world ecomony and we will all be dependent on their success in the future. Stonewalling the Chinese or telling them how they are going to do things will never work. Things will change on their own as people amass more money. I am witnessing it firsthand.

You have to remember that westerners are trying to cram 130 years of industrial development (and everything else) into the last 20 or so years here in China (I know it is closer to 30 but things started taking off in the last 20). Along with that you have the growing pains of people learning to use disposable products and dispose of them properly, learning how to drive on a highway when they are barely capable of forming a line for a train ride. It is really quite chaotic and sometimes quite frustrating. But, on the other hand I have met some of the kindest and genuine people since I have been here.

I think that probably the best thing you could do for your narrow mind is to sell all of your Apple products and buy a plane ticket over here. Stay here for a month or two and see what really goes on. Then you can go home and run your mouth about how bad things are over here.

The Nazi Regime was also a vital part of the world economy.
 
A lot of people here are missing the point.

Apple is an "innovative" and "green" company yet they have reverted to employees in 3rd world conditions in a country notorious for human rights abuses. Even worse Apple tries to cover this stuff up. Apple hires the contractors to get there work done. Someone used the hitman analogy and I think that about explains it. Just because you hire the hitman doesn't mean your off scott free. For the price you pay for an Apple computer (again made out of the same internals as most namebrandhere PC's, business could be moved to the US.

Also, I love how everytime someone says Apple uses the same components as other PC's and people say, "NO THEY DONT BLAH BLAH" those same people are in this thread saying, "FOXCONN MAKES STUFF FOR EVERYONE NOT JUST APPLE." Hmmm... interesting...
 
thanks for your reply.

what about my other question: if in your opinion it is not cheaper to produce in china, why does apple produce in china? sorry if i misunderstood you take on this issue.

Because it would require to Apple to write-down the income for the R&D required to move production back to the US. Do you remember when Apple took a loss (relatively - actually they took a smaller gain than forecast) when they moved the unibody manufacturing to the States? It was not that long ago and the analysts were concerned about the reduction of revenue 'increase' as a result of the research and cost of manufacturing here in the States.

Apple is a company and therefore is required to show a profit and growth of a certain degree. If they moved production back to the States they would show a decrease in expected 'gain' or 'growth' and for a publicly traded company that is a bad thing.

Does that answer your questions? If they moved production back the the US and wrote-down growth for a couple of years or more - it would decrease the stock valuation and cost many people a lot of money. That is the real reason behind it - as well as it would reduce the bonuses and incentives that Mr. Job's and other executives get as a result of profit and growth.

Cynical? Yes - but true? You decide.

D
 
huh?

We are talking about the wealthiest country in the world, Last time I checked China was the biggest creditor to the US. They reason they can do this is because their society is totally different then ours. We read that article and say "what a terrible life" but I think most of the workers are happy to have a place to live and work. Look at the Olympic stadium that they built where 1000's of workers lived on site working 12 hours a day, ate, slept, everything for months away from their family. Basically this is nothing new and the fact that Apple has the policies they do is the only way to be one of the most innovating companies in the world.
 
3 words - Grain of Salt.

It really surprises me on how so many people believe today's media and so many with extreme views summarize their own wild ideas of what they mean.
Unless you go work there, keep the caraziness at bay...I'm sure you have you and your own community have other problems you could more usefully apply your energy.

Hell, writers are trying to get a rise out of you, that's their job, and I got news for you, you played right into their hands.

China is going through what the US went threw some 80 years ago. And I have friends that work at company mentioned, they personally, love working there and say it is one of the best places to work in that part of China.
They are thankful and love making products for apple, there is a waiting list just to get an interview at said company...

Good pay, in some cases 50% more than their peers are making and it is just a high security site. They laughed when they heard the prison comment.

All I'm saying is in any business, people always make the mistake when they are frustrated about something to assume they know what it's like to have to do someones job. Even if you have done it before, you have no idea of knowing.

Just like no one knows what you have to deal withpersonally each day to get things done.

It would do all of us better to think about this the next time we read anything or are dealing with a difficult situation caused by someone else.

Can't we all just get along :) Life's to short...Enjoy it...
 
I'm sorry but I'd rather listen to the Reuters News Agency rather than random forum poster.

Nice to see that "Rumors" are taken so seriously here but "News" from reputable sources is to be taken with a "Grain of Salt". :p

But if the "News" shows Apple in a good light it is always accepted as the gospel truth. ;)
 
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