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I've enjoyed playing around with the data and looking at where I've been. It's not a problem for me.

HOWEVER,

that doesn't mean that I haven't got the imagination to think of countless scenarios where this could be a big problem for others.

People who are saying this isn't a big deal just aren't thinking hard enough.
 
I love all the dopes quoting various disclosures in agreements that we've agreed to. Just because something is written into terms of an agreement, does not make it lawful. Apple could put in their T&Cs you agree to allow Apple to shoot you dead if you jailbreak your iPhone. Do you think that would be OK too since you agreed to allow it?
 
This has nothing to do with privacy.. Why do people think this is a privacy issue?

A timestamped database of all locations I have been too, with a resolution of a second, that can be used to map my goings and comings and my destinations which can all fall into the wrong hands if the device that makes this data personally identifiable to me (thus running afoul of Section 4b, making the "Read the TOS!" point completely moot) is... wait... not a privacy issue ?

It very much is a privacy issue. Why does it matter that it is ? Now that it's out in the open, Apple can address it and fix it (even though it shouldn't have been an issue at all, let's give them time to redress the situation).

I love all the dopes quoting various disclosures in agreements that we've agreed to. Just because something is written into terms of an agreement, does not make it lawful. Apple could put in their T&Cs you agree to allow Apple to shoot you dead if you jailbreak your iPhone. Do you think that would be OK too since you agreed to allow it?

The TOS everyone links and that we all agreed to says the data is collected in a way that makes it non-personally identifiable to us. Unfortunately, this is not the case here, the data is quite clearly attached to your device thus making all the location data collected and stored here personally identifiable to you. Section 4b doesn't apply at all, this is not what we agreed to.
 
You're right, they say that the Verizon CDMA phone doesn't keep the log.

Okay, then it's a log of GSM cells that the phone sees and/or connects to.

The question is, where does it get the location data from? Either the phone has a complete cell id database internally, or it's using GPS, or it has to go out on the network and ask Apple's cell id servers for the location.

The researchers claim neither GPS nor network data is being used, so there would have to be an internal database, which I've never heard of. Something is missing.

I really doubt there's an internal database. Just imagine how many millions of cell towers are out there. Even my locations, here in Malawi, were very accurate. There has to be data passed back and forth.

Why does the phone have to get in touch with Apple? There's no reason to... I wouldn't be surprised if each cell tower antenna has it's location coded into it. The phone just queries that tower, and then records which tower it's connected to (along with that tower's coords). Then these guys just overlaid that data on Google Maps.
 
everyone is fine with sharing their personal info on facebook but a device that remembers where it has been?omg no!! anyway there aint a probleme as long as you dont lose your pc or iphone right?

I'm not on Facebook. I sure as hell don't want Apple or anyone else to know my location history. That's my business, not theirs. If it's for iAds, they can shove it. I am not buying into iAds.
 
This has nothing to do with privacy.. Why do people think this is a privacy issue?

I take a photo of my car, at home. I go to the shops on my bicycle. I drop my phone. Someone with half a brain downloads this file onto their computer from my iPhone which I dropped. They go to my house (GPS thanks) and take my nice car, and a few other bits and bobs.

Having access to my location history is no-ones business, but my own.

Apple? You're really turning into Big Brother. Your 1984 advert, which won awards and the hearts of thousands, is now somewhat satirical.
 
I take a photo of my car, at home. I go to the shops on my bicycle. I drop my phone. Someone with half a brain downloads this file onto their computer from my iPhone which I dropped. They go to my house (GPS thanks) and take my nice car, and a few other bits and bobs.

Having access to my location history is no-ones business, but my own.

Apple? You're really turning into Big Brother. Your 1984 advert, which won awards and the hearts of thousands, is now somewhat satirical.

No, someone with half a brain would do it without the iPhone and computer. What's to stop them from seeing your car from the street? Or if they were really motivated, just follow you home from work.
 
Originally Posted by crackbookpro
I'd rather have none at all. This is a file being stored. It's big bad news.

Of course that's the ideal answer but an impossible answer. So again, Google or your device/computer?

Not impossible. Just use a mobile OS that respects your privacy and that you have control over. iOS is clearly not it.
 
No, someone with half a brain would do it without the iPhone and computer. What's to stop them from seeing your car from the street? Or if they were really motivated, just follow you home from work.

This database removes the effort from them of :

- Having to find the car
- Having to find where the car is parked
- Having to find when the car will be left alone for a length of time

No matter that the deed is possible without this database, this database still is quite the privacy issue. Every little thing that impacts your privacy shouldn't be overlooked and dismissed easily based on the fact that other factors might also impact your privacy.
 
With respect to all the "view with alarm" postings that will follow, this really doesn't mean anything. I leave my home at the same time every morning. The transponder in my car records my passage and debits my account with the state highway department. Traffic cameras record my license plate at several points during my journey. Once out of the car, my smiling phiz can be seen on any number of CCTVs en route to my office, whose door I open with a card that automatically records my entry. The IP address of this posting will reveal that I am sitting in my living room as I write. Even without the GPS turned on, my phone regularly initiates a conversation with the local cell tower. I can be found with almost pinpoint accuracy.

So I'm not exactly going to panic to learn that my computer and phone keep a record of my latitude and longitude that they don't share with anyone else.

The government already knows where I live, where I work, where I bank, and all kinds of other interesting information. It's how they collect their taxes and send me my mail.

If there were the slightest indication that liberals, atheists, and other enemies of the state were being tracked by their GPSes and rounded up, I'd be the first to the barricades. But there isn't. Our privacy is not based on "nobody knows", it's based on "nobody cares."

Very well put.
 

That doesn't address any of the points of why :

- Does this database contain a full history, timestamped at a resolution of a second without any clean-up ever being done. Is my location 5 months ago really important ? Is my location last week really important ?
- Why is it being backed up at all and migrated from device to device ?

Both points Apple need to address IMO. If they put in a simple clean-up function to make sure the database gets regularly flushed of obsolete data or even a configurable delay/resolution that would be great. Apple should also exclude this file from backups to iTunes.
 
That doesn't address any of the points of why :

- Does this database contain a full history, timestamped at a resolution of a second without any clean-up ever being done. Is my location 5 months ago really important ? Is my location last week really important ?
- Why is it being backed up at all and migrated from device to device ?

Both points Apple need to address IMO. If they put in a simple clean-up function to make sure the database gets regularly flushed of obsolete data or even a configurable delay/resolution that would be great. Apple should also exclude this file from backups to iTunes.

The granted patent describes exactly what is stored in the db... Instead of hysteria people should think a little more before becoming Jawas.
They have simply developed a method of accurately triangulating the devices position based upon (probably 4) towers.
 
Like I said before

Tomtom, garmin, Navman... The GPS guys all keep a log in the device when they are I use... Nobody gives a rats about them or calls the mayor... My Navman kept the record n never deleted for 3 years...
I uploaded to my comp and saw my whole travel history...
:rolleyes:
 
A timestamped database of all locations I have been too, with a resolution of a second, that can be used to map my goings and comings and my destinations which can all fall into the wrong hands if the device that makes this data personally identifiable to me (thus running afoul of Section 4b, making the "Read the TOS!" point completely moot) is... wait... not a privacy issue ?

It very much is a privacy issue. Why does it matter that it is ? Now that it's out in the open, Apple can address it and fix it (even though it shouldn't have been an issue at all, let's give them time to redress the situation).



The TOS everyone links and that we all agreed to says the data is collected in a way that makes it non-personally identifiable to us. Unfortunately, this is not the case here, the data is quite clearly attached to your device thus making all the location data collected and stored here personally identifiable to you. Section 4b doesn't apply at all, this is not what we agreed to.

Surprisingly, very well said. It IS a security/privacy issue.

Apple needs to address this. Maybe an AES 128 bit encryption will do; but whatever it needs, they need to address this.

-deth
 
Everyone wanted off with Google's head for the whole streetview thing but now it's okay for Apple smh
 
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