Retailers Cite 'Insufficient Customer Demand' as Biggest Reason for Not Supporting Apple Pay

[dontwalkhand]

The problem is lots of retailers don't even have the logo. You literally tap the phone to the terminal and it magically works. No indication whatsoever.

Shops in the US commonly offer money if you sign up for a loyalty program/mailing list, but I don't think that is necessary at all for Apple Pay. Awareness is important of course, but I don't think people need an incentive to use Apple Pay, shops need an incentive to accept it.

Personally, I would use Apple Pay literally everywhere if I could. I hate carrying around numerous cards and look forward to the day that I can stop doing this, because currently they make my wallet too fat (I'm going to carry my phone around anyway, so it may as well serve more purposes). I hate carrying around cards so much that I will probably buy a $155 dollar Plastc to get rid of them, if it proves effective, even though I am pretty confident (and very much hope) that Apple Pay will be accepted everywhere within a couple years.

My main concern is that small retailers/restaurant/shops, where I make most of my purchases, will be slow to adopt. It's great that McDonald's accepts Apple Pay, but I never go there...

small businesses seem to be the quickest to adapt out here. Don't forget most of these businesses get terminals for free or little cost because they don't have to worry about a whole computerized POS system.

 

[SirLance99]

Not even Starbucks takes Applepay. Got my new watch the other day. Went to Starbucks confidently without my wallet, having heard they take Applepay now. Embarrassed myself after waiting in line, had to walk all the way home to get my damn wallet. I refuse to buy their stupid prepaid card crap and use a dumb barcode. What a load of garbage.

I'm going back to cash. Screw this.

You do realize that the Starbucks app is used by far more people for transactions than Apple Pay right? By a large margin. There is absolutely no incentive for Starbucks to use Apple Pay. It's the number one contact less payment app.

Over Four Million Mobile Wallet Payments Per Week


Why Is The Starbucks Mobile Payments App So Successful? http://www.forbes.com/sites/quora/2014/06/13/why-is-the-starbucks-mobile-payments-app-so-successful/



And yes, you can use Apple Pay from within the Starbucks app.

 

[dontwalkhand]

On top of that, it pretty much guarantees that cards can still be taken away from tables like they are now. I also have a suspicion that chip and signature isn't going to be "annoying" enough for most people to consider technologies like Android or Apple Pay, especially since they already waive signature for small amounts.

Chip and signature is not annoying. Walmart and Target don't even ask for the signature anymore. Especially with Target's new chip implementation, insert card, "do not remove card" , "remove card" done. It is only a little slower than swiping, but faster than Pin/sig.

Also the purchase was over $100! I'm guessing Target is now saying that chip is secure enough, signatures are worthless anyway, just make it fast.

 

[dontwalkhand]

I will also refuse to use their stupid Starbucks app. I'm not loading up $10 to spend only $4. I'll use my card, or even better, I'll find better coffee.


There are many great mom and pop coffee shops, that make better coffee, and some even have Apple Pay and Chip Card support.

 

[SirLance99]

I will also refuse to use their stupid Starbucks app. I'm not loading up $10 to spend only $4. I'll use my card, or even better, I'll find better coffee.


There are many great mom and pop coffee shops, that make better coffee, and some even have Apple Pay and Chip Card support.

I don't think Starbucks will care all that much as they are doing just fine without you.

 

[cub850G2]

I've used Pay at a ton of local mom&pop shops. It surprises me sometimes!

I posted about it earlier in the thread but on a recent road trip I went in to a tiny grocery store in a tiny town in super rural southern Utah - and when I got up to the register with my snacks they had a machine with the NFC logo and my Pay worked!

I have used my Pay at:
McDonalds
Home Depot
Jamba Juice
Firehouse Subs
Panera Bread
Whole Foods
Some Grocery Store in Utah
A small local used video game shop
Walgreens
Vending machines in my office building
Nike stores
Apple Store
Starbucks
A local motorcycle shop
A local independent convenience store

And probably others I am forgetting...

This Starbucks was in the USA right? I know in Canada they support Contactless at Starbucks, so its a matter of time before they do here as well. I've heard that Starbucks is installing Verifone pinpads with EMV and NFC most likely. So either the VX805(In-N-Out) or VX820(Subway) both have NFC and the latter always has Contactless built in.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Customer to retail clerk who doesn't give a sh*t: You don't accept Apple Pay?

Retail clerk who doesn't give a sh*t: Huh?

Customer: Apple Pay.

Clerk: What's that?

Customer: It's a convenient and secure way to pay with my phone, really great and I try to only shop at stores that accept it.

Clerk: No, never heard of it and I don't really get paid enough to care. I was trained on the POS machine and you just swipe your card.

Customer: Well, maybe you could tell your manager that I and probably hundreds of other customers really want, nay, demand to use Apple Pay. Then it'll surely work its way up the chain to the corporate office where those decisions are made, because that's how it works, right?

Clerk: Um, yeah, right. I'll get that ball rolling, right away.

Customer: Great! See? All we have to do is "demand" Apple Pay and we'll get Apple Pay!

I've walked out of a store before. The clerk shouldn't need to handle anyone's payment with their hands other than cash. They don't clean themselves properly or they are scratching their balls and then they want to put their hands all over everything. When I see it I get disgusted and walk out like... nevermind.

If you want my money, it's my rules or the next guy will get my money. Starbucks app I use because I get the rewards but it would be nice to be able to use passbook app with the starbucks card.

 

[divorceiphone]

so many retailers have the hardware but elect to not have NFC or the pin reader enabled. i don't understand the logic

It is all about the fees.

 

[GregA]

Retailers are trying to blame consumer adoption but they haven't adopted it. How can the consumer?

I was just in the US last week. I used a credit card extensively, and they only ever used the magnetic strip. We never use the magnetic strip here, EVER. And we're no longer allowed to sign, but in the US we had to sign all the time.

Nearly every card reader has the contactless option, you just tap your card and it takes the money (with pin if over about $70). So nearly every retailer could use Apple Pay without any changes or arm twisting, if Apple allowed it. If a retailer can't do it then for now they read the card's chip (nearly every US card reader had that, but couldn't use it).

I'm not sure why the US hasn't taken the next step, but it's not about accepting Apple Pay. My best guess is that the "tap and go" payment system is terrible for tipping, and that's quite a problem. IF that's the issue, maybe Apple could add a separate button "add 20% tip" to the screen... can't do that by tapping a card!

 

[GregA]

Perhaps by launching it in the UK, Australia, and other countries who already have an NFC infrastructure up and running, Apple would actually get a real world example of it in operation, and be able to say "We have a whole country using it successfully here, surely your company can do it too?" when in negotiations.

Yes. Why not do it where it's ready to go?

However... given that NFC is already going here and the US aren't rushing to add it, I'm not sure if this solution would convince the US to follow. They're already not caring that the rest of the world does it.

 

[tmiw]

Chip and signature is not annoying. Walmart and Target don't even ask for the signature anymore. Especially with Target's new chip implementation, insert card, "do not remove card" , "remove card" done. It is only a little slower than swiping, but faster than Pin/sig.

Also the purchase was over $100! I'm guessing Target is now saying that chip is secure enough, signatures are worthless anyway, just make it fast.

That's what I mean. In other countries they use contactless to not have to ask for PIN for small purchases. Since we already don't ask for signature for small purchases and no one verifies it properly for larger ones, what's the draw for Apple Pay? I'm not sure people in general care enough about security to use that as their justification.

Don't get me wrong, people will use it and it will be the most successful contactless system in the US but the US will likely still have the lowest use of contactless in the industrialized world for a very long time to come.

 

[lexR]

Ok, so from now on, I'll start telling retailers I want Apple Pay.

yeah same... what the hell? if it was available i would use it as often as i use contactless if not more so!

 

[CaTOAGU]

The trouble is, many retailers have their heads buried firmly in the sand and wouldn't know what their customers wanted if it came up and dug them out of the sand, whilst seranading them with a violin and serving them a three course meal.

 

[mfvisuals]

Twenty-eight total retailers noted that... the inability to send customized advertisements to individual users like traditional credit cards allow, is a "key reason" they won't accept Apple Pay.

What do they mean by this? Where does an advertisement come into play when I'm paying for something a register?

I also find it awkward to do it. The merchant sometimes has to do something prior to you using it which means rather than "just working" like a credit card or cash, there's an extra little head nod.

This "something prior" is probably the person at the register pushing a button that indicates whether you're paying in cash, check, credit, etc. This would be done regardless of whether you're using Apple Pay.

The McDonalds by my house I noticed says you can do Apple Pay in the drive thru, but there is no equipment outside to do it so you'd basically have to ask them to provide you with the equipment to do it...or hand over your credit card like everything else.

This is a great example of a company (McDonalds) offering to support something without full thinking through how they're going to offer that support. It's laughable really.

 

[tmiw]

What do they mean by this? Where does an advertisement come into play when I'm paying for something a register?

They mean they want to be able to mail you ads based on your purchase habits without having to sign you up for a loyalty program.

 

[benlukes]

Great! That means Apple Pay is the best solution for the US market and will thus stay there, and the rest of the world will have their own best solutions, which means less marketshare for Apple. Wait, why are you bringing this up? I said other countries than the US in my initial post.

Frankly I assumed you were from the US because this is an American, English-language website, your English is excellent, and most native English speakers live in the US. That aside, your argument, although applied to Denmark, was basically that because contactless credit cards are/will be available no-one will use a phone to pay (or there will be no reason to). This argument can be applied to any country, and I completely disagree with it.

As far as nine cards are concerned, I'm talking nine credit or debit/ATM cards. Of course any one of those works at any shop, but obviously the ATM cards are for use at an ATM. I have my own business, so one debit and credit card for both personal and business = 4 cards. I also have a joint checking account with my wife: 5 cards. I also have a debit/ATM for use abroad (little benefits other than no foreign transaction/ATM fees): 6 cards. The balance is made up with credit cards with different rewards programs (miles, cash back on gas/groceries, etc.) and a store-specific (Nordstrom) credit card: 9 cards. Frankly I didn't realize when I signed up for one of these that closing a credit account hurts your credit score, otherwise I would have closed one.

Again, I have more cards, but I don't carry them with me. Increasing my credit capacity increases my credit score, so each of these cards helps.

Sure, Apple Pay could potentially work with a lot of things. Just like Passbook. I just don't know anyone who uses Passbook. Let's not look too far ahead into the future.

This is what frustrates me. It would be INCREDIBLY EASY to implement a system where I could use my phone to travel on transit. I don't care if it's Apple Pay or Passbook. The hardware is already in place, all the transit agency needs to do is write an app. NO WAY should this be considered "too far ahead in the future." By the way, I use Passbook...

 

[benlukes]

Exactly. This whole pay with your phone thing is a solution to a problem that really didn't exist. Card swipes and even cash are quick and clean. You don't even have to sign for small to medium sized purchases now at larger vendors. Simple. Easy.

WTF is this phone pay thing for again....?

Couldn't disagree more! Not only is swiping a card slower than using Apple Pay (including time to get the card from your wallet), but carrying around credit cards drives me crazy because it is so incredibly unnecessary. Why not use the thing that you are going to have with you anyway to pay - your phone. Frankly everything in my wallet could be housed on my phone, meaning I wouldn't have to carry around a wallet anymore. To me this is a massive benefit, and I know others agree.

Look at the level of interest in products like Coin and Plastc. Clearly people don't like walking around with numerous credit, debit, and gift cards.

 

[kdarling]

What do they mean by this? Where does an advertisement come into play when I'm paying for something a register?

They mean they want to be able to mail you ads based on your purchase habits without having to sign you up for a loyalty program.

Exactly.

And if merchants can't get the info for targeted advertising directly from our purchases, as they have for years, then they have to pay the BANKS to provide the targets.

That means the banks not only make money from high charge card fees, but ALSO for selling back information that the merchants used to get with regular credit cards.

This extra cost is why major retailers came up with MCX. CurrentC could save them almost two billion dollars a year in data purchases alone (not to mention lower fees), some of which hopefully they could pass down to us, the consumer.

U.S. credit card issuers, facing the danger of merchant independence, threw their support behind Apple Pay. That's why they're willing to pay Apple far more than it pays back in fraud prevention. It's bribe money to keep the info and fees flowing.

 

[Black Belt]

Congratulations!

You've been awarded Dumb Post of the Day. Please collect your reward at the counter (credit cards and cash only).

Get a new education. You lack qualifications to opine.

 

[tmiw]

This cost is why major retailers came up with MCX. CurrentC could save them almost two billion dollars a year in data purchases alone (plus lower fees), some of which hopefully they could pass down to us, the consumer.

Debit card transaction fees have been capped for a while but retailers just pocketed the savings instead. They may have discounts IF you use CurrentC, but they'll likely start tapering them off if lots of people start using it. Which they won't judging how kludgy using the app apparently is.

 

[benlukes]

For the retailers to say, "insufficient demand" is ********, because they really don't know. It's all based on anecdotal evidence via word of mouth from store managers. And mind you, consumers are not being asked. It's just whether people are asking for it at check out or not. They're filthy liars (the retailers).

Great point. If the retailers actually surveyed customers (especially one that have used Apple Pay), they would get a pretty clear message. I know I would say yes to Apple Pay emphatically and often.

In response to the other guy: Yeah, telling cashier's probably won't do any good because the message stops there. Also, I often have to choose between debit and credit when I swipe a credit card at a grocery store or gas station, so it isn't just an issue with the watch.

 

[benlukes]

No, it isn't, but it's in my pocket just like my credit card. Paying with Apple Pay is a gimmick right now, but it won't be in the future.

So I guess you only have one credit card? And you keep it loose in your pocket? For folks like me who keep their cards in a wallet and carry multiple of them, Apple Pay is way easier. Even for you, if you could pay with your phone it would mean that you wouldn't have to carry that card in your pocket. No risk of it getting lost or stolen, and fewer items to weigh you down or keep track of.

 

[robogobo]

Most retailers have a website and a contact email you can use to let them know you want them to support Pay. It's not that mysterious how to let retailers know you want to use Pay. I did that with my grocery store and liquor store. My grocery store now takes Pay and my liquor store emailed me back and said they are working on it. They need a software upgrade since Pay almost works but the transaction gets stuck in processing after the NFC reader.

You can also fill out a survey many retailers put on receipts and if they have a customer service area, many have a form to fill out for feedback or requests. Or there's the option to directly tell the manager if you are a proactive, uninhibited type of person. It's funny how reluctant people are to contact retailers to get something they want. I've been contacting retailers for this and that (more information, product complaints, unavailable product requests, kudos, etc.) since I was a kid and most are very responsive.

That's ridiculous. The percentage of customers who are going to go out of their way to visit a website or fill out a survey in no way reflects real customer "demand". It's ignorant and lazy on the part of the retailer. The only way they can gauge demand is to proactively open a channel to the only people who have direct contact with the customer 100% of the time, the clerk. But like I noted, they aren't paid enough to care, and nobody' asking them.

 

[benlukes]

Debit card transaction fees have been capped for a while but retailers just pocketed the savings instead. They may have discounts IF you use CurrentC, but they'll likely start tapering them off if lots of people start using it. Which they won't judging how kludgy using the app apparently is.

How many retailers actually buy that data? And how many participate in stuff like CurrentC? For the ones that don't (certainly most small businesses), why not accept Apple Pay?

 

[kdarling]

Debit card transaction fees have been capped for a while but retailers just pocketed the savings instead. They may have discounts IF you use CurrentC, but they'll likely start tapering them off if lots of people start using it. Which they won't judging how kludgy using the app apparently is.

Yeah, you're probably right.

Everyone likes to pass on higher costs, but not the savings from lower ones