I totally agree with you, and the fully understand the U.S. Only nature. I guess for us outside the U.S. , we get right into these keynotes to see the small print after the show
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Retailers Cite 'Insufficient Customer Demand' as Biggest Reason for Not Supporting Apple Pay
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I totally agree with you, and the fully understand the U.S. Only nature. I guess for us outside the U.S. , we get right into these keynotes to see the small print after the show
Nothing wrong with contacting retailers, but you are right that using that to gauge true demand is totally flawed. I've talked to several cashiers as I checked out about Apple Pay, but I could tell that they didn't care and that they weren't going to relay the message. In most cases I'm not going to wait around while they go get a manager so I can get my message across.
I think I might start using the survey on the receipt approach.
How many customers out of 50 would answer yes? 5, 10?
Apple Pay is huge in this forum. But how many 6/6+ users have it set up? And how many people does that represent out of the consumer market at large?
If this was really costing retailers money, they would be all over it.
Good questions. I'm curious how many 6/6+ users have Apple Pay set up in countries where it is offered. Note that I pointed out that they should be asking people that have tried Apple Pay. Those that haven't might prefer it but don't know it yet. And if more places offered Apple Pay compatibility maybe more people would use it.
I'm not saying that this is costing retails money. I still carry all my cards around because very few of the places I buy stuff accept Apple Pay, so I'm not deterred from making non-AP purchases. However, once AP is common, those that don't offer it will be losing money because I will no longer bring my cards with me. A great example of this is cash. I almost never have cash on me anymore, and restaurants/shops that only accept cash definitely lose out on my business.
Even if this isn't costing retailers money, I would be much happier if I could use AP only, and there should be a way for retailers to capture that increase in utility. I have made purchases at places simply because they accept AP, but I'm not at the point of avoiding places that don't accept it.
Perhaps being in the UK, as I am, it just does not seem a problem.
Get my plastic card out my pocket (or get my phone out my pocket)
Slip the card into the card reader slot, or wave the card over the top of the contactless card reader.
Tap in 4 digits (takes all of 2 seconds maximum for me to do that)
And I've paid.
Or tap on phone/watch after selecting card you wish to use on phone or watch.
Honestly, it's no BIGGIE.
If I was working in a store, doing some payments on a production line many many times a minute, than an automated system may be useful, but after browsing around a store looking at products for 5 mins, or an hour.
A few seconds if even that at the checkout, really is not enough to really make a difference to me.
However.............................
All that said.............................
I will admit to something, and you can quote me on this
Would I like to not have to carry my wallet and cards with me if I go down the town to pick up a few bits?
yes, 100% I would.
Grab my car keys and phone only, pop down the local shops, pick up a few items. Yes 100% I want to do that.
However, I can only do that, when I know all the shops I might just happen to pop in, or see something in the window of a shop I like and pop in. I NEED t know 100% that all the shops will be able to work with my phone.
Until I know that, I will still have to carry my wallet and plastic cards with me all the time also.
And also, like today, I used a couple of different store/bonus/club cards, that only can be used if I have their stores plastic club/bonus card.
Perhaps in another 5 years+ this may actually work, but now, in cold hard reality, unless your shopping is done VERY specifically you cannot rely on these new systems.
This is another reason why it's struggling to become a standard as plastic cards, and cash are still used and needed so much.
The food/sandwich van that comes to my workplace twice a day that people buy rolls, sandwiches, salads, drinks etc etc from, she would look at you like you were from another planet if you waved your phone at her to pay.
She deals with cash.
Get my plastic card out my pocket (or get my phone out my pocket)
Slip the card into the card reader slot, or wave the card over the top of the contactless card reader.
Tap in 4 digits (takes all of 2 seconds maximum for me to do that)
And I've paid.
Or tap on phone/watch after selecting card you wish to use on phone or watch.
Honestly, it's no BIGGIE.
If I was working in a store, doing some payments on a production line many many times a minute, than an automated system may be useful, but after browsing around a store looking at products for 5 mins, or an hour.
A few seconds if even that at the checkout, really is not enough to really make a difference to me.
However.............................
All that said.............................
I will admit to something, and you can quote me on this
Would I like to not have to carry my wallet and cards with me if I go down the town to pick up a few bits?
yes, 100% I would.
Grab my car keys and phone only, pop down the local shops, pick up a few items. Yes 100% I want to do that.
However, I can only do that, when I know all the shops I might just happen to pop in, or see something in the window of a shop I like and pop in. I NEED t know 100% that all the shops will be able to work with my phone.
Until I know that, I will still have to carry my wallet and plastic cards with me all the time also.
And also, like today, I used a couple of different store/bonus/club cards, that only can be used if I have their stores plastic club/bonus card.
Perhaps in another 5 years+ this may actually work, but now, in cold hard reality, unless your shopping is done VERY specifically you cannot rely on these new systems.
This is another reason why it's struggling to become a standard as plastic cards, and cash are still used and needed so much.
The food/sandwich van that comes to my workplace twice a day that people buy rolls, sandwiches, salads, drinks etc etc from, she would look at you like you were from another planet if you waved your phone at her to pay.
She deals with cash.
One other thing.
Please everyone, remember, and I know this hurts.......
Apple is a very much a minority when it comes to "Phones people own"
It does not matter how amazing YOU feel with your new iPhone, or how many of your friends have a new iPhone.
The "World" in general does not care, as the VAST majority of people do not own (for whatever reason) a recent iPhone.
They may have an older iPhone model, they may be one of the tens/hundreds of millions with Android Phones, or they may have something totally different.
Note also. Model of phone does not match spending power.
You could well have teens with the latest iPhones and zero real money to spend on much else.
You DO have many people, with dumb phones who are very wealthy old school type who simply don't care about needing the latest gadget from Apple.
The system all stores and businesses need to adopt is one that works totally cross platform, ideally working and/or built into even the cheapest candy bar phones.
If you want to scrap cash, get all stores on board, and get all the public to adopt this soon, then stop going on and on about "apple pay" the world does not care about the tiny minority of people going on and on about apple pay, they are inconsequential.
Please everyone, remember, and I know this hurts.......
Apple is a very much a minority when it comes to "Phones people own"
It does not matter how amazing YOU feel with your new iPhone, or how many of your friends have a new iPhone.
The "World" in general does not care, as the VAST majority of people do not own (for whatever reason) a recent iPhone.
They may have an older iPhone model, they may be one of the tens/hundreds of millions with Android Phones, or they may have something totally different.
Note also. Model of phone does not match spending power.
You could well have teens with the latest iPhones and zero real money to spend on much else.
You DO have many people, with dumb phones who are very wealthy old school type who simply don't care about needing the latest gadget from Apple.
The system all stores and businesses need to adopt is one that works totally cross platform, ideally working and/or built into even the cheapest candy bar phones.
If you want to scrap cash, get all stores on board, and get all the public to adopt this soon, then stop going on and on about "apple pay" the world does not care about the tiny minority of people going on and on about apple pay, they are inconsequential.
Here's something I posted on another forum earlier:
To make it clear, this place was NFC enabled but they didn't want to bother. This sort of thing is exactly why I'm bearish on the US using any form of NFC on a widespread basis any time soon.
I asked the frozen yogurt place that I went to today if I could try using Apple Pay. (They had a FD130 and EMV has been enabled for a while.) The clerk didn't want to try because of something about "needing a different system" and it "not working". I didn't push it but I did take the opportunity to point out to her the contactless icon that popped up when she inserted my card. I reported them via http://www.apple.com/feedback/apple-pay.html though I don't expect anything to happen.
To make it clear, this place was NFC enabled but they didn't want to bother. This sort of thing is exactly why I'm bearish on the US using any form of NFC on a widespread basis any time soon.
"Customers haven't asked for it"????
i didn't ask them to build a Target down the street either, but they did.
i didn't ask Nordstrom to carry the Burberry fall collection, but they do.
i don't ask anyone to accept Visa, but they do.
How would we "ask" for Apple Pay anyway? When I go into Target, i don't ask for it because:
1) I already know they don't accept it, and
2) the cashier doesn't really care if I want it and has no way to communicate that to executives anyway.
just stupid.
i didn't ask them to build a Target down the street either, but they did.
i didn't ask Nordstrom to carry the Burberry fall collection, but they do.
i don't ask anyone to accept Visa, but they do.
How would we "ask" for Apple Pay anyway? When I go into Target, i don't ask for it because:
1) I already know they don't accept it, and
2) the cashier doesn't really care if I want it and has no way to communicate that to executives anyway.
just stupid.
Haven't swiped my card in Australia for such a long time I'm not sure if it works still. Every EFTPOS machine uses NFC now in Australia, the second Apple Pay comes online it will work all over the country. Very excited for the day.
Visiting America recently I was amused by the whole swipe thing.
Sorry but cash is clunky.
In Australia you drive up to the drive through window and say paying with card thanks, the window lady holds out the EFTPOS machine, you touch your card to the screen and it beeps. She says "receipt" you say "no thanks" signalling the end of the transition and you drive on. It's been like this for years and ApplePay here would be just as natural.
Americans visiting here can already us ApplePay in every store in Australia.
Don't worry some stores have Chip card support already and by October most stores should have it (and NFC as well). All my cards have chips.
NFC is another story however
. Target installed Chip & PIN, and only chip and pin, no Apple Pay, no NFC, nothing . To make matters worse, the machine supports it, they just have it off.
Target will probably enable it in early 2016, which is yes very freaking stupid to wait that long. You'd hope they would be smart and enabled it more soon, but I doubt they will.Don't worry some stores have Chip card support already and by October most stores should have it (and NFC as well). All my cards have chips.
NFC is another story however
Was in the U.S. The other month, they thought I was nuts trying to stick my UK debit card into the machine for chip and pin. In the UK you never hand over your card it's become second nature. Apple pay would be so easy to enable in the UK as all our terminals are chip and pin and nearly all are NFC enabled. Apple should have released in Europe first as all shops have new terminals due to chip and pin and contactless being widespread!
I use Apple Pay every time I'm in Walgreens or McDonald's. I can even use the Walgreens loyalty card with it, even on the Apple Watch. The cashier can scan my Apple Watch instead of typing in the phone number or swiping the Walgreens card, and then I just push the button and hold the watch next to the terminal and done.
If places like Target, Walmart, and gas station pumps would take it, almost all of my purchases would be Apple Pay. Just waiting for it to be enabled, retailers!
If places like Target, Walmart, and gas station pumps would take it, almost all of my purchases would be Apple Pay. Just waiting for it to be enabled, retailers!
Despite Apple dubbing 2015 "the year of Apple Pay" in its January earnings call, a number of big-name retailers remain skeptical over the contactless payments service, according to Reuters. The service launched last October in the U.S. and has steadily gained support from numerous banks and retailers in the months since.
Working through the National Retail Federation's top 100 United States merchants, of which Apple said "about half" would begin to accept Apple Pay this year, Reuters found the company's predictions may be "too optimistic," with many retailers remaining skeptical about Apple Pay. After questioning and interviewing a total of 98 of the top 100 NRF merchants, it was discovered that fewer than a quarter of the retailers currently accept Apple Pay while nearly two-thirds of the companies confirmed they would not be supporting the mobile payments service this year. Just four retailers confirmed to Reuters that they would in fact be joining the support of Apple Pay in 2015.
Apple has still made significant progress since the service's debut last October, increasing retail acceptance to over 700,000 points of sale as of the last financial Apple Pay update in March. According to one retailer not accepting Apple Pay, the Cupertino-based company comes on strong when pitching to possible partners.
When searching for a reason why so many companies were against backing the service, "insufficient customer demand" was the biggest reason cited by merchants. This was followed by lack of data access granted through observing customer buying habits, cost of installation, and support of other contactless payments solutions like Current-C. Twenty-eight total retailers noted that lack of data access, and the inability to send customized advertisements to individual users like traditional credit cards allow, is a "key reason" they won't accept Apple Pay.
Despite questions about the future of Apple Pay, its current partners echo enthusiasm in customer satisfaction and ease-of-use with Apple Pay. Whole Foods spokesperson Michael Silverman told Reuters that Apple's mobile wallet accounted for 2 percent of its sales dollars as of March, with an expected increase in the future. "Our shoppers are really enjoying the speed, convenience and security of Apple Pay," Silverman said. With WWDC around the corner, and rumors of much-requested features such as a rewards program coming to the platform, its likely additional companies will come around to Apple Pay as Apple beefs up the still fairly nascent service and consumer traction continues to improve.
Update 11:19 AM: Apple has provided a statement to iMore standing by its predictions of Apple Pay adoption for this year with some additional context not shared in the Reuters report.
Article Link: Retailers Cite 'Insufficient Customer Demand' as Biggest Reason for Not Supporting Apple Pay
I try to pay in lots of places that don't support Apple Pay. CVS can but won't for some reason. Mc Donald's takes it but not at the drive through. I haven't found a supermarket chain yet that takes it, although I think Whole Foods does. Starbucks takes it but not at every store. My liquor store offers 5% off if you pay cash or debit and debit cards don't work with Apple Pay, so even though the liquor store takes it, I use a debit card. Lots of things to get worked out over time.
Despite Apple dubbing 2015 "the year of Apple Pay" in its January earnings call, a number of big-name retailers remain skeptical over the contactless payments service, according to Reuters. The service launched last October in the U.S. and has steadily gained support from numerous banks and retailers in the months since.
Working through the National Retail Federation's top 100 United States merchants, of which Apple said "about half" would begin to accept Apple Pay this year, Reuters found the company's predictions may be "too optimistic," with many retailers remaining skeptical about Apple Pay. After questioning and interviewing a total of 98 of the top 100 NRF merchants, it was discovered that fewer than a quarter of the retailers currently accept Apple Pay while nearly two-thirds of the companies confirmed they would not be supporting the mobile payments service this year. Just four retailers confirmed to Reuters that they would in fact be joining the support of Apple Pay in 2015.
Apple has still made significant progress since the service's debut last October, increasing retail acceptance to over 700,000 points of sale as of the last financial Apple Pay update in March. According to one retailer not accepting Apple Pay, the Cupertino-based company comes on strong when pitching to possible partners.
When searching for a reason why so many companies were against backing the service, "insufficient customer demand" was the biggest reason cited by merchants. This was followed by lack of data access granted through observing customer buying habits, cost of installation, and support of other contactless payments solutions like Current-C. Twenty-eight total retailers noted that lack of data access, and the inability to send customized advertisements to individual users like traditional credit cards allow, is a "key reason" they won't accept Apple Pay.
Despite questions about the future of Apple Pay, its current partners echo enthusiasm in customer satisfaction and ease-of-use with Apple Pay. Whole Foods spokesperson Michael Silverman told Reuters that Apple's mobile wallet accounted for 2 percent of its sales dollars as of March, with an expected increase in the future. "Our shoppers are really enjoying the speed, convenience and security of Apple Pay," Silverman said. With WWDC around the corner, and rumors of much-requested features such as a rewards program coming to the platform, its likely additional companies will come around to Apple Pay as Apple beefs up the still fairly nascent service and consumer traction continues to improve.
Update 11:19 AM: Apple has provided a statement to iMore standing by its predictions of Apple Pay adoption for this year with some additional context not shared in the Reuters report.
Article Link: Retailers Cite 'Insufficient Customer Demand' as Biggest Reason for Not Supporting Apple Pay
I think the reason is that it only works on iPhone 6 and everyone does not upgrade every year. There are a lot of people still using iPhone 4 and 5 so it's true that demand is less than it will be. When people swap out their 4s and 5s for 6s and 7s, demand will jump. Also banks should allow the use of debit cards.
I've found a grocer named Sparkle Market in Ohio takes it, so I go to that location more often now. Retailers are all about the bottom line and could careless about customer security. If you card information gets stollen then its on the card company to compensate you not the retailer. So they figure why spend the money to upgrade its not their problem.
According to the latest Kantar report, about 13% of US iPhone 6 owners have used Apple Pay.
That doesn't mean they use it all the time; just that they used it at least once in the past six months.
--
Of course, as I constantly point out, percentages by themselves are meaningless without some base quantity. In this case, 13% of how many??
Well, Kantar says that iPhone 6 owners are 19% of the supposed 94 million US iPhone owners, which is about 17 million. 13% of that is a little over 2 million who have tried Apple Pay, if you believe the stats.
Let's be wildly optimistic and say that half of those use it pretty often, or about a million real users. Not a lot. Heck, there's 38 million AMEX owners, and a lot of stores refuse to take that venerable method of payment.
So it seems like a chicken and egg situation. Not enough iPhone owners with NFC, who also use it, to make most retailers sit up and notice. And not enough retailers with NFC support yet to make using it a no-brainer choice.
I think it's just a matter of needing patience. New things always pick up slowly at first.
Sorry I'm not paying £600 for a contactless card dressed up as a watch. Apple watch is too expensive and besides being a fashion item and health monitor pretty unnecessary when you must have an iphone in your pocket.
True lots of people don't wear a watch these days.
That thought disappoints me a bit, but I know it's natural. I wish "US Websites" used the .us ending like other countries ... macrumors.com.us... just so that if someone is expecting a US focussed discussion it can be made clear. In contrast using ".com" for worldwide sites makes sense. Companies like Apple, google etc are all worldwide. I'm Australian, I speak English, my English should be excellent
But that's not the way it works. Ahh well.
Other than that I agree with both of you. Tap-and-go is just SO EASY now with cards that it makes getting out a phone seem like extra work. While Apple Pay could be instantly available everywhere in Europe, Australia, and Asia - the very reason it would be easy to switch on is also the reason that people might not see much advantage. In agreement with benlukes though - if someone has many cards, a single system is appealing. My experience in Europe is that people have far fewer cards, so that benefit may not have much sway, while Australia is somewhere between US and Europe in card usage.
"Used against you" ???
You mean, like getting a coupon for similar MacDonald's meals in the mail?
The horror.
Smart people take advantage of loyalty programs and targeted ads. I get hundreds of dollars in credit back each year from places like CVS and Staples, and save even more hundreds of dollars at grocery stores and places like Barnes & Noble. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of travel miles and cash kickbacks with my credit cards... and they know more details than anyone about what I buy.
In return, they're able to give me deals that are tailored to my desires. Heck, CVS does all our pharmacy needs, so they already know much more personal stuff about us than just the fact that I like buying candy and batteries from them (which I do even more with the personalized coupons they send me).
It's no different than getting personalized deals and service from other places that get to know you. That's why people tend to shop at the same stores, eat at the same restaurants, buy from the same car dealer, go to the same florist, get loans from the same banks, etc.
In fact, I'll say that being able to pay with a single tap that first transfers loyalty card info, then pays the discounted payment, would be a great incentive for many people to use any digital wallet. Even Apple is going to have to break down and support something like this as a consumer choice.
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