Retailers Cite 'Insufficient Customer Demand' as Biggest Reason for Not Supporting Apple Pay

[Benjamin Frost]

That thought disappoints me a bit, but I know it's natural. I wish "US Websites" used the .us ending like other countries ... macrumors.com.us... just so that if someone is expecting a US focussed discussion it can be made clear. In contrast using ".com" for worldwide sites makes sense. Companies like Apple, google etc are all worldwide. I'm Australian, I speak English, my English should be excellent

But that's not the way it works. Ahh well.

Other than that I agree with both of you. Tap-and-go is just SO EASY now with cards that it makes getting out a phone seem like extra work. While Apple Pay could be instantly available everywhere in Europe, Australia, and Asia - the very reason it would be easy to switch on is also the reason that people might not see much advantage. In agreement with benlukes though - if someone has many cards, a single system is appealing. My experience in Europe is that people have far fewer cards, so that benefit may not have much sway, while Australia is somewhere between US and Europe in card usage.

Good points.

There's also something unfocused about using the iPhone for payments. A card is simple and easy. You can be checking your texts, your emails, browsing the web, even taking a phone call whilst paying with a card or cash—but not if you use Apple Pay. And if a phone call or other notification comes in whilst using Apple Pay, it must be distracting. Do you take the call or ignore it? Do you send a text? Use a card, and you can do both.

And using the watch strikes me as even worse. There, you've got to use both hands to make a payment, as opposed to one hand for the phone.

 

[ecschwarz]

There's also something unfocused about using the iPhone for payments. A card is simple and easy. You can be checking your texts, your emails, browsing the web, even taking a phone call whilst paying with a card or cash—but not if you use Apple Pay. And if a phone call or other notification comes in whilst using Apple Pay, it must be distracting. Do you take the call or ignore it? Do you send a text? Use a card, and you can do both.

And using the watch strikes me as even worse. There, you've got to use both hands to make a payment, as opposed to one hand for the phone.

I'm typically the person that puts the phone away when in the checkout line at the store - maybe an occasional text or such, but I've always thought it felt a bit rude to be on the phone when I should be focusing on the transaction and cashier. That might just be me, but I think I can set my phone aside (apart from Apple Pay or Passbook) for those few minutes and/or call a person back. I can agree with the ability to multitask, but it hasn't really been an issue for me.

As for the Watch, I often "arm" Apple Pay before the transaction so then it just needs to be passed by the terminal (this is especially good at self-checkout where your hands are occupied for scanning or bagging). I know the iPhone added this ability, but not removing the phone from my pocket is an even quicker option.

I'm not disagreeing that a dedicated item (physical cars) has its advantages, but I don't think some sort of gadget is grossly more inconvenient. From a US perspective, I'd love to have contactless cards across the board (I see you're in the UK and the prior poster is in Australia where they're much more pervasive). Since we'll likely just have EMV chip cards without contactless for the foreseeable future, NFC-based device solutions may be faster.

 

[Col4bin]

Simple reality: what too many pro-Apple Pay members of this forum fail to realize is that they represent the extreme minority in support of this system. Until the general masses begin demanding Apple Pay like they do in similar numbers seen with demand for Apple devices, Apple Pay will continue to have difficultly gaining traction with the public and with retail partners. It also doesn't help that other competitors are trying to cash in with their own systems, further muddying the waters.

 

[ecschwarz]

Simple reality: what too many pro-Apple Pay members of this forum fail to realize is that they represent the extreme minority in support of this system. Until the general masses begin demanding Apple Pay like they do in similar numbers seen with demand for Apple devices, Apple Pay will continue to have difficultly gaining traction with the public and with retail partners. It also doesn't help that other competitors are trying to cash in with their own systems, further muddying the waters.

I think that sums it up perfectly. The sad reality is that some people don't care that older magnetic-stripe-based cards are less secure (the credit card companies/banks back it up) and a swipe is convenient. Phone-based (and now watch-based) payments are still seen as a geeky "look what my gadget can do" by the masses. Besides the alternative payment systems, there's plenty of other issues like certain banks not on board, certain cards even from supporting banks not working, flaky support at some locations (*cough* Subway *couch*). There's still a long ways to go before this becomes mainstream...and that's a big if, but I think you (Col4bin) really explained the big-picture perspective well.

 

[laurim]

I'm typically the person that puts the phone away when in the checkout line at the store - maybe an occasional text or such, but I've always thought it felt a bit rude to be on the phone when I should be focusing on the transaction and cashier. That might just be me, but I think I can set my phone aside (apart from Apple Pay or Passbook) for those few minutes and/or call a person back. I can agree with the ability to multitask, but it hasn't really been an issue for me.

Depends on the store. My grocery store created an app for their loyalty program and I can look at the current ads and put their coupons on it. It has a QR code to scan at the register so I get my accumulated reward of pennies off per gallon at the gas station and tells the cashier what coupons I've loaded. So I already have my phone out at the register. I anticipate more retailers doing this as a compromise. Cub Foods shows me their ads and tracks my purchases via their app and I can pay with Pay. Perfect solution and I control everything.

 

[Flight Plan]

I use it whenever I can and I definitely favor places that have it...

Me too. And I ask for it everywhere I shop. I repeat my request every time I shop at a place that doesn't have it yet, and I speak louder if the manager, owner, or even other customers happen to be within earshot.

Additionally, I like Apple Pay because Apple does NOT share my personal information with retailers. I would not like any payment plan that allows information to be shared. I don't want the daily newsletter, and I don't need you to send me a "Happy Birthday!" email for a free appetizer.

 

[AdonisSMU]

"Used against you" ???

You mean, like getting a coupon for similar MacDonald's meals in the mail?

The horror.

Smart people take advantage of loyalty programs and targeted ads. I get hundreds of dollars in credit back each year from places like CVS and Staples, and save even more hundreds of dollars at grocery stores and places like Barnes & Noble. Not to mention hundreds of thousands of travel miles and cash kickbacks with my credit cards... and they know more details than anyone about what I buy.

In return, they're able to give me deals that are tailored to my desires. Heck, CVS does all our pharmacy needs, so they already know much more personal stuff about us than just the fact that I like buying candy and batteries from them (which I do even more with the personalized coupons they send me).

It's no different than getting personalized deals and service from other places that get to know you. That's why people tend to shop at the same stores, eat at the same restaurants, buy from the same car dealer, go to the same florist, get loans from the same banks, etc.

In fact, I'll say that being able to pay with a single tap that first transfers loyalty card info, then pays the discounted payment, would be a great incentive for many people to use any digital wallet. Even Apple is going to have to break down and support something like this as a consumer choice.

Yeah nevermind the fact that CC information can be used in a great number of ways... to transfer money from your CC accounts and banking accounts to AMX accounts without any names associated with the accounts. I know at least 3 people in the last week who've had this problem. That's your CC information being used against you. I wasn't referring to the store itself using it against you all though that point is debatable...

Their goal isn't to give you deals on stuff. Their goal is to figure out the best way to get you to spend more money than you would otherwise spend in their stores. and by forcing you into their app and into a TOS that they you most won't read they will sell your information to the highest bidder. All the information they need is we sell X amount of Y items at this time each week. You don't need people's personal information to do that.

It really only takes you a few times to have money stolen from you to start caring about information security. However, Banks are the ones who ultimately end up paying for the insurance related to the fraud so they will likely have to be the one to push the retailers. At the end of the day the one who holds all the money makes all the rules.

 

[JeffyTheQuik]

Guessing that doesn't apply to CVS, otherwise you wouldn't be at 100%.

Hence me putting, "My success rate is 100%, out of 30-40 times using it in the last 4 months."
Haven't gone to CVS, who intentionally turned off ApplePay.

Other places that don't advertise it, like Chevron or AM/PM, or while in Canada, had no issues. That why I cited my experience and not others.

 

[tmiw]

Hence me putting, "My success rate is 100%, out of 30-40 times using it in the last 4 months."
Haven't gone to CVS, who intentionally turned off ApplePay.

Other places that don't advertise it, like Chevron or AM/PM, or while in Canada, had no issues. That why I cited my experience and not others.

I wouldn't say Chevron doesn't advertise it. The ones around here have Apple Pay logos on their doors now.

 

[AlecZ]

I don't know anyone who uses Apple Pay, and I can see why people don't seem to care. It wanted me to verify with my credit card company to set it up, and I couldn't get it verified easily for some reason, so I gave up because my credit card works anyway and is supported in many places already. I didn't want more stuff to deal with; the credit card already works fine.

Also, it's hard to have so much customer demand when a lot of customers can't even use it because they don't have the very latest iPhone.

 

[flyinmac]

For the retailer who said that not even a small amount of customers are asking for it - please tell me that you have a robust customer feedback system in place, especially at the registers with cashiers. It's a joke to make a comment like that, without some way to actually track customer wants - assuming customers will even tell you they want it.

I can't be the only one who sees the irony here. You want them to have a better tracking method, yet advocate Apple Pay.

 

[JSB1540]

I don't know anyone who uses Apple Pay, and I can see why people don't seem to care. It wanted me to verify with my credit card company to set it up, and I couldn't get it verified easily for some reason, so I gave up because my credit card works anyway and is supported in many places already. I didn't want more stuff to deal with.

Also, it's hard to have so much customer demand when a lot of customers can't even use it because they don't have the very latest iPhone.

Verification was easy with AMEX, Citi, and my debit, also Cap One. Now you have at least one contact with someone that does use it anywhere I can.

 

[\-V-/]

I don't know anyone who uses Apple Pay [...]

What's your point? I know quite a few people that use Apple Pay and have seen complete strangers at check out lines using it as well. My buddy used it at Jimmy John's the other day and it was quick and easy. I haven't used it myself because my upgrade isn't until later this year. People are using it.

[...] and I can see why people don't seem to care.

Based on what? Your limited experiences with it?

Also, it's hard to have so much customer demand when a lot of customers can't even use it because they don't have the very latest iPhone.

That will change over time ... but millions of people still have them.

 

[bruinsrme]

Is the person working the checkout telling the suits at the corporate office when they get a request for apple pay?

 

[scottsjack]

Simple reality: what too many pro-Apple Pay members of this forum fail to realize is that they represent the extreme minority in support of this system. Until the general masses begin demanding Apple Pay like they do in similar numbers seen with demand for Apple devices, Apple Pay will continue to have difficultly gaining traction with the public and with retail partners. It also doesn't help that other competitors are trying to cash in with their own systems, further muddying the waters.

I think that sums it up nicely. I got in on this story a little late so I read only the first and last pages of posts. True to their reputation the ultra-purists started out by vowing not to shop with stores that don't play 100% with Apple. Those ultra-fans are always here at the beginning of a thread.

Finally the grownups show up with reality. I for one bought my iPhone 6 on the first day with Touch ID and Apple Pay in mind. I love my iPhone but still have yet to use Apple Pay even once. I just don't care that much about it. Keeping my phone in my pocket and pulling a credit card out of my wallet seems natural. All my charges show up in the same place and in the same manner.

I guess Apple Pay is a pretty cool idea. It just seems to me that it is another one of Apple's way too many new toys/gimmicks/services. I just don't live to do everything the Apple Way. I like My Way.

 

[tmiw]

I think that sums it up nicely. I got in on this story a little late so I read only the first and last pages of posts. True to their reputation the ultra-purists started out by vowing not to shop with stores that don't play 100% with Apple. Those ultra-fans are always here at the beginning of a thread.

Finally the grownups show up with reality. I for one bought my iPhone 6 on the first day with Touch ID and Apple Pay in mind. I love my iPhone but still have yet to use Apple Pay even once. I just don't care that much about it. Keeping my phone in my pocket and pulling a credit card out of my wallet seems natural. All my charges show up in the same place and in the same manner.

I guess Apple Pay is a pretty cool idea. It just seems to me that it is another one of Apple's way too many new toys/gimmicks/services. I just don't live to do everything the Apple Way. I like My Way.

Apple needs to push it much harder in public than they have. They should probably go as far as to choose a small to medium sized metro area and shell out the money to upgrade every business in that area to support it. Make it so that any use of NFC there works nearly 100% of the time and without any of the hassles other people have experienced. Even signature/PIN gets waived regardless of the transaction amount. Then do an ad blitz, call it "Kansas City Loves Apple Pay" (or whatever city they deploy to).

Because frankly, if NFC/contactless fails, American banks aren't going to give it a third chance and the most secure form of payment will end up being chip and signature (PIN will never be widespread except possibly for debit cards IMO) for decades to come.

 

[JoeG4]

No ****, really? There isn't going to be much consumer demand for SOMETHING THEY CANNOT USE.

Also: Someone needs to make a law on how many screens you have to press ok/yes/no on before your transaction is complete. At Walgreens I wouldn't bother using Apple pay regardless because checking out at Walgreens is worse than seeing a proctologist.

Your total is $57.00. "Do you have your walgreens card?" "no" *puts in phone number*
*hits okay*
*waits awkwardly for it to get to the next screen*
"Do you want to donate $5 to our charity because we always ask people to donate in our name so we look good for PR reasons?"
*taps no* *feels awkward for not wanting to donate to a good cause*
*holds phone up to pinpad*
*waits* *phone gets the order wrong **pinpad beeps*
*tries again*
*it gets it*
*Please enter your pin number* *enters*
*do you want cash back?* *no*

 

[wikiverse]

Let's be honest, here on MR we are bias towards apple and believe apple pay should become standard everywhere, though in the greater scheme of things, I doubt the masses care.

To be honest I am Caring less and less, as apple announces a lot of cool features that never go international. Only after a major announcement you realize the feature is only for the U.S.

Awesome for our American cousins, but also frustrating for the rest of us.

Agreed. I'm not sure why Apple didn't launch this in Australia first.

- 90% of customers are with one of 4 national banks (only 4 banks to deal with).
- Australia has the most NFC terminals of any country in the world (10x more than the US, 4x more than UK)
- Swipe/Sign has been completely abolished and all major cards (Visa/MC/Amex) have NFC
- Australia has one of the highest iPhone market shares (around 50%) of any country.
- Australians love novelty crap.

It's basically a recipe for success.

 

[flyinmac]

Is the person working the checkout telling the suits at the corporate office when they get a request for apple pay?

I've worked retail. There is usually very good communication between the stockers, cashiers, and sales floor with management. Management in turn communicates with the executives.

A local store rearranged merchandise. And you better believe the executives are well informed of the customer's complaints.

It gets through the levels of management quickly.

The real issue is that your average consumers will complain independently of each other, and in extreme volume if you simply relocate the ketchup in the store. But, it takes an organized effort to get enough iPhone users to equal an unheard and extreme minority.

Put in perspective, the total number of Apple Pay related complaints in the United States to date, likely is fewer than the number of complaints this store had within the first hour of moving some merchandise around in the store.

I was there, it was like an angry mob of thousands of people in the store. And, they haven't quieted down in the last week.

That's the simple truth. Nobody will be able to organize enough activists to make noise about Apple Pay that would even come close to the disorganized revolt of independent people over moving the ketchup.

 

[j800r]

I kinda agree with the statement to be perfectly honest. While I would love to be able to just pay on my iPhone 6 with my thumb print I honestly don't think there are enough people out there who'd use it to make it worthwhile for vendors implementing.

Here in England it's all just chip and pin anyway. Still, I'd like to be able to use my thumb print for all online purchases.

 

[mantan]

Agreed. I'm not sure why Apple didn't launch this in Australia first.

- 90% of customers are with one of 4 national banks (only 4 banks to deal with).
- Australia has the most NFC terminals of any country in the world (10x more than the US, 4x more than UK)
- Swipe/Sign has been completely abolished and all major cards (Visa/MC/Amex) have NFC
- Australia has one of the highest iPhone market shares (around 50%) of any country.
- Australians love novelty crap.

It's basically a recipe for success.

and don't forget one other bonus - American are entitled. So if we didn't get it first and and somebody else did....we would suddenly rallying around Apple Pay being rolled out and fall all over ourselves showing we could support it too!

U.S.A!

U.S.A!

U.S.A!

 

[AlecZ]

Verification was easy with AMEX, Citi, and my debit, also Cap One. Now you have at least one contact with someone that does use it anywhere I can.

It's easy but not as easy as doing nothing. You also have to check or keep track of which places accept Apple Pay. Maybe more people would use it if more places used it... which would happen if more people used it. It's a good payment system, only it's not at critical mass yet.

 

[\-V-/]

It's easy but not as easy as doing nothing.

That's the same mentality that lead to most Americans being fat.

You also have to check or keep track of which places accept Apple Pay.

Oh, the horror.

Maybe more people would use it if more places used it... which would happen if more people used it.

I hope you realize how little sense this sentence makes.

 

[AdonisSMU]

Agreed. I'm not sure why Apple didn't launch this in Australia first.

- 90% of customers are with one of 4 national banks (only 4 banks to deal with).
- Australia has the most NFC terminals of any country in the world (10x more than the US, 4x more than UK)
- Swipe/Sign has been completely abolished and all major cards (Visa/MC/Amex) have NFC
- Australia has one of the highest iPhone market shares (around 50%) of any country.
- Australians love novelty crap.

It's basically a recipe for success.

I alluded to this point earlier in this thread that if Apple didn't launch in America first we'd be complaining and raising holy hell as to why Apple released a feature in some other country they didn't release in America first.

 

[MH01]

Agreed. I'm not sure why Apple didn't launch this in Australia first.

- 90% of customers are with one of 4 national banks (only 4 banks to deal with).
- Australia has the most NFC terminals of any country in the world (10x more than the US, 4x more than UK)
- Swipe/Sign has been completely abolished and all major cards (Visa/MC/Amex) have NFC
- Australia has one of the highest iPhone market shares (around 50%) of any country.
- Australians love novelty crap.

It's basically a recipe for success.

That is an excellent point .

Though being a U.S. Company , I cannot see them dropping a feature outside of the U.S. First. And also given the population difference, they will make more money in the is anyway.

Fingers crossed whatever they announce today is going to be avialable to all of us .