Retina iPad Mini's Display Criticized Over Poor Color Gamut and Accuracy

[Davidsr20]

Iv ordered my iPad mini 2 waiting on delivery. My current iPad is a mini which I'm quiet happy with. Iv had all the iPads bar the 4 and while the retina display will be welcome I'm now worried about this colour issue.
Do I try return and buy an air or keep I'm not sure!
I just think with the mini i use it a lot more than I would the larger pad but I do like quality too.
I'm delighted with my iPhone 5s coming from the 4s it's a nice jump.
Can I ask does reducing the brightness make any improvement on the new mini?
Or the fact it's in the software could apple not do anything with an update?

 

[pocket3d]

First of all, no. Most tablets don't come anywhere near being able to display 100% of the RGB gamut. The iPad 3 and 4 were exceptional because they could. It's one of the things besides the high res display that made them look so nice.

Secondly, if they did, then why? Battery life? The 8.9 inch Kindle Fire HDX, which has a screen roughly the same quality as the iPad 3/4 while sporting a higher resolution screen, is on par with the Mini in regards to battery life. Same with the Nexus 7. It's a little overblue, and the screen isn't quite as high resolution, but it's toe to toe with the Mini on lasting power.

Apple didn't intentionally gimp the gamut on the Mini for better performance. That's complete BS. The most likely scenario is that they used lower quality screens as a cost cutting measure.

You and rGiskard are reasoning backwards. You wish to continue believing that Apple tried to save a few dollars even though it would cost them their reputation.

You ignore the facts that have been set before you in order to maintain this preposterous position:

The Air is IGZO-backplaned, it draws less current, it can use the backlighting that gives it full gamut, and the Air can be physically shrunk this year as a result, when combined with processor, software and memory bandwidth savings.

The mini is not IGZO and thus can't afford the energy for backlighting that would provide full gamut, and it uses the savings gained by processor, etc. for driving the 326 ppi display, and ends up having to enlarge case and battery.

All this can be gleaned from Soneira's reports. What we are seeing is a result of IGZO not being ready for higher-density screens.

You guys just continue to take the low road and make absurd assertions based on your preconceptions (bad greedy Apple), ignore the blindingly obvious facts, and destroy your own reputations as responsible, adult debaters.

Carry on.

Ps. I see you use the Kindle and the Nexus as rebuttal, ignoring that they are LTPS, which is unavailable to Apple in the quantity required, even if they could redesign the whole device to abandon their IGZO effort. Get real.

 

[pocket3d]

I thought I was the only person thinking this.

Thanks for picking that post out. I saw it too, and was relieved to find another honest person in this thread. Note how Renzatic throws up a screen of distraction around it with a misunderstanding (deliberate?) of the backlight issue.

Same with rGiskard, above, who wants to pretend that white LEDs for backlighting are equivalent in power usage to the alternatives.

 

[Arran]

First of all, no. http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_10.html

First of all, thanks for that link. I haven't been much into the gamut wars, but that diagram explains things quite well. It also gives me a nice warm smug feeling since I just bought another ipad4

The most likely scenario is that they used lower quality screens as a cost cutting measure.

You could call it cost cutting, but without some degree of cost restraint, I'd be unable to afford anything Apple. For instance, ditching cheapo aluminium for titanium or some exotic magnesium alloy would be "better", in an academic sense. So, too, would be replacing the screen's relatively soft, scratchable, front glass with a sheet of pure sapphire glass. And how about solid gold connectors on the PCBs?

It's all arguably "superior". But as a consumer who just wants to surf in bed, it's not worth it, IMHO.

 

[jwblue17]

I have a strong suspicion that the iPad Mini Retina does not have an IGZO screen.

Compared to its predecessor it is thicker and heavier with a larger battery.

The benefit of IGZO is allowing a lighter and thinner tablet.

Do these facts make it indisputable that it is not an IGZO screen?

It does have a more power hungry processor.

 

[jwblue17]

There is the contention that IGZO technology can not be made with a smaller footprint that what is used with the iPad Air.

I am not sure this can be true. The internet has many reports that IGZO is all but certain to be used in the next iPhone.

 

[Renzatic]

First of all, thanks for that link. I haven't been much into the gamut wars, but that diagram explains things quite well. It also gives me a nice warm smug feeling since I just bought another ipad4

Welcome to the grand, fun world of color snobbery, sir! Your membership card is in the mail.

...just remember, you have to make fun of at least 3 people per day, or we'll kick you out of the club.

You could call it cost cutting, but without some degree of cost restraint, I'd be unable to afford anything Apple. For instance, ditching cheapo aluminium for titanium or some exotic magnesium alloy would be "better", in an academic sense. So, too, would be replacing the screen's relatively soft, scratchable, front glass with a sheet of pure sapphire glass. And how about solid gold connectors on the PCBs?

I don't think Apple going full on with an iPad caliber LCD would've made it unaffordable, but it probably would've pegged the price up by another few dozen bucks or so, which would've put the Mini within spitting distance of the price of the Air. That would be kind of a weird move for what's supposed to be the smaller, slightly cheaper option.

It's all arguably "superior". But as a consumer who just wants to surf in bed, it's not worth it, IMHO.

That's really what's most important. Keep in mind that I'm not saying the retina Mini is a bad product. I'm a little disappointed the display isn't as nice as what you'd get on the bigger iPads, but it's hardly a world ending event.

What I'm doing is calling out the people who are saying it doesn't matter, that it's just another spec on a sheet for someone to bash Apple with, and that the difference is nigh unnoticeable. It wouldn't be so terrible if it weren't for the fact that most of these same people were claiming everything else had "cheap crap displays" that can never match Apple quality not even three months ago, only to start backpeddling and come out with a thousand and one excuses once their favorite product fell into the exact same hole.

...yeah, it's kind of a futile, nearly pointless, entirely uphill battle. But by god, someone has to do it. THIS IS THE INTERNET!

 

[Renzatic]

You and rGiskard are reasoning backwards. You wish to continue believing that Apple tried to save a few dollars even though it would cost them their reputation.

It doesn't matter if they cheaped out or made sacrifices in one area for gains elsewhere. The end results would be the same. The Mini doesn't have as good a display as its contemporaries.

As has been said around here a thousand times before, there's more to screen quality than its resolution.

Ps. I see you use the Kindle and the Nexus as rebuttal, ignoring that they are LTPS, which is unavailable to Apple in the quantity required, even if they could redesign the whole device to abandon their IGZO effort. Get real.

So because Apple is using an inferior technology that produces worse results, I can't honestly compare them against their competitors?

...I'll remember that next time someone calls Samsung displays absolute crap because they use Pentile screens. NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT! APPLE USES BETTER STUFF SO ITS REALLY UNFAIR!

 

[pocket3d]

It doesn't matter if they cheaped out or made sacrifices in one area for gains elsewhere. The end results would be the same. The Mini doesn't have as good a display as its contemporaries.

As has been said around here a thousand times before, there's more to screen quality than its resolution.



So because Apple is using an inferior technology that produces worse results, I can't honestly compare them against their competitors?

...I'll remember that next time someone calls Samsung displays absolute crap because they use Pentile screens. NO YOU CAN'T DO THAT! APPLE USES BETTER STUFF SO ITS REALLY UNFAIR!

What matters is that you have been saying that they cheaped out. That is a slander and reflects poorly on your integrity, because all the logic shows that the technology that they have spent their xx hundred millions on (look it up) ISN'T READY YET.

And LTPS isn't available to them at the scale they need.

You say they cheaped out. All right, I say your brain and ethics fizzled out, and I suspect you are being fraudulent. Same kind of accusation; how does it feel?

On second reading of your post it seems you might be withdrawing your cheap out accusation. That's a good idea and the main reason I'm arguing with you and Giskard. You can make all the comparisons you want, the mini screen isn't as good. It's the reason that is important in this discussion, because I know damn well they will be shipping the mini with IGZO backplanes ASAP, maybe before a year goes by. Meanwhile, I am enjoying mine and I will still enjoy it if it's superseded in six months, because I know they're not running a game. Those guys care about details almost to a fault, which is why they've sunk so much into Sharp and their technology.

 

[azurehi]

What matters is that you have been saying that they cheaped out. That is a slander and reflects poorly on your integrity, because all the logic shows that the technology that they have spent their xx hundred millions on (look it up) ISN'T READY YET.

And LTPS isn't available to them at the scale they need.

You say they cheaped out. All right, I say your brain and ethics fizzled out, and I suspect you are being fraudulent. Same kind of accusation; how does it feel?

On second reading of your post it seems you might be withdrawing your cheap out accusation. That's a good idea and the main reason I'm arguing with you and Giskard. You can make all the comparisons you want, the mini screen isn't as good. It's the reason that is important in this discussion, because I know damn well they will be shipping the mini with IGZO backplanes ASAP, maybe before a year goes by. Meanwhile, I am enjoying mine and I will still enjoy it if it's superseded in six months, because I know they're not running a game. Those guys care about details almost to a fault, which is why they've sunk so much into Sharp and their technology.

erous

1. Are you saying that the retina mini IS Not As Good as it's competitiors?

2. Are you saying that "improved" retinas are on their way? Do you mean with the Next retina or as an upgrade for those who buy later?

3. Is detailing one's personal experience with an Apple device which might include Criticism Slanderous? Actionable in a court of law? Are you an Attorney?

Just wondering

 

[2IS]

Is anyone *really* that bothered about colours on their iPad?

Only people who want a good quality screen. Thankfully for Apple, much of their base will accept an inferior display simply because it's an Apple product. Some even defend it. Personally for me, yeah, I'm bothered that it has a worse display than it's cheaper competitors. Especially from a company that is praised based on it's display quality.

 

[Señor]

Why don't we just make the Air's over-saturated display an issue too?

Apple can never win. Just let this play it's course just like everything else.

 

[KOTULCN]

I have to admit Apple rushed this product to market. The colors are washed out and the reason people like the retina screen is because of how amazing it's supposed to look and it just doesn't. I'm having issues with subdued springboard icons randomly and there just isn't enough ram to run properly. For those of you that say that the crashing is do to apps not being written to utilize the new A7 architexture I can tell you I have experienced this with nothing installed but stock apps that come pre-installed.

Here is an example of the subdued icon issue (YouTube app):

 

[Brian Y]

Only people who want a good quality screen. Thankfully for Apple, much of their base will accept an inferior display simply because it's an Apple product. Some even defend it. Personally for me, yeah, I'm bothered that it has a worse display than it's cheaper competitors. Especially from a company that is praised based on it's display quality.

I was going to comment, then I read your signature.

 

[Bubba Satori]

* The Nexus 7 display is too narrow.
* Gamut issues on the iPad Mini.
* iPad Air doesn't have speakers that fill the room with rich bass.
* Nexus 5 camera is average
* iPhone 5S only has a 4 inch screen

See, there are always flaws in everything....

So everything is the same, but some are paying twice as much for the privilege.
Are you sure you want to go down that road?

----------

Welcome to the grand, fun world of color snobbery, sir! Your membership card is in the mail.

Izzat related to the sleek, slim, magical, hipster world of snobbery?
Any discounts on dual membership?
Boom.

 

[Arran]

...yeah, it's kind of a futile, nearly pointless, entirely uphill battle. But by god, someone has to do it. THIS IS THE INTERNET!

INTERNET? Pah!

 

[pocket3d]

erous

1. Are you saying that the retina mini IS Not As Good as it's competitiors?

2. Are you saying that "improved" retinas are on their way? Do you mean with the Next retina or as an upgrade for those who buy later?

3. Is detailing one's personal experience with an Apple device which might include Criticism Slanderous? Actionable in a court of law? Are you an Attorney?

Just wondering

See if you can follow this outline of the mini retina issue, using your list:

1. Yes, clearly the amorphous-silicon retina mini display is not as good as the LTPS displays used in the Kindle and the Nexus tablets in this one important area of color gamut.

2. All the facts and Sineira's comments point to this being a temporary situation caused by the difficulty of the display makers trying to get IGZO to scale up to the size and numbers of panels needed by Apple for their 326ppi mini. They seem to have succeeded in producing IGZO panels for the lower-density iPad Air. I am guessing that Apple is not satisfied with the stop-gap use of a-Si for the mini right now, that they figure it's better for their competitive position to produce a retina with 62% color gamut now than no retina mini at all this year, and certainly better than making the battery life shorter or the device thicker to handle the increased power needs of the LED backlighting that would produce full color gamut. So I am also guessing that they'll fix this by doing a mid-year IGZO update of the mini, maybe offer trade-ins for current owners, maybe not. I'm guessing with a bias of wishful thinking. Could be totally wrong.

3. Renzatic and others are not talking about their personal experience, they're talking smack about Apple's motives, ignoring the real reasons for the gimped displays that I listed above, which you could easily deduce yourself if you read Soneira's reports for the past two years on tablets. This is the only issue I'm arguing with them here. They're "slandering," not in a legal sense but in a common decency sense, taking a cheap shot by saying that Apple cheaped out on the mini display to keep their margins up. Consider how much Apple's spent on developing IGZO already, and you can see how wrong-headed this is.

 

[bawbac]

Iv ordered my iPad mini 2 waiting on delivery. My current iPad is a mini which I'm quiet happy with. Iv had all the iPads bar the 4 and while the retina display will be welcome I'm now worried about this colour issue.
Do I try return and buy an air or keep I'm not sure!
I just think with the mini i use it a lot more than I would the larger pad but I do like quality too.
I'm delighted with my iPhone 5s coming from the 4s it's a nice jump.
Can I ask does reducing the brightness make any improvement on the new mini?
Or the fact it's in the software could apple not do anything with an update?

Apple loves your GAS.

 

[azurehi]

See if you can follow this outline of the mini retina issue, using your list:

1. Yes, clearly the amorphous-silicon retina mini display is not as good as the LTPS displays used in the Kindle and the Nexus tablets in this one important area of color gamut.

2. All the facts and Sineira's comments point to this being a temporary situation caused by the difficulty of the display makers trying to get IGZO to scale up to the size and numbers of panels needed by Apple for their 326ppi mini. They seem to have succeeded in producing IGZO panels for the lower-density iPad Air. I am guessing that Apple is not satisfied with the stop-gap use of a-Si for the mini right now, that they figure it's better for their competitive position to produce a retina with 62% color gamut now than no retina mini at all this year, and certainly better than making the battery life shorter or the device thicker to handle the increased power needs of the LED backlighting that would produce full color gamut. So I am also guessing that they'll fix this by doing a mid-year IGZO update of the mini, maybe offer trade-ins for current owners, maybe not. I'm guessing with a bias of wishful thinking. Could be totally wrong.

3. Renzatic and others are not talking about their personal experience, they're talking smack about Apple's motives, ignoring the real reasons for the gimped displays that I listed above, which you could easily deduce yourself if you read Soneira's reports for the past two years on tablets. This is the only issue I'm arguing with them here. They're "slandering," not in a legal sense but in a common decency sense, taking a cheap shot by saying that Apple cheaped out on the mini display to keep their margins up. Consider how much Apple's spent on developing IGZO already, and you can see how wrong-headed this is.

Thanks for the clarifications

 

[Renzatic]

I was going to comment, then I read your signature.

...and commented anyway.

 

[fertilized-egg]

A display that can run the full color gamut doesn't produce any more heat or draw any more power than one that can't. It's the LEDs behind the screen that produce the most heat, and consume the most power in an LCD setup.

That's incorrect. Assuming everything else is equal, a display with a wider color gamut does require more power because the color filter on the LCD requires brighter backlight.

Secondly, if they did, then why? Battery life? The 8.9 inch Kindle Fire HDX, which has a screen roughly the same quality as the iPad 3/4 while sporting a higher resolution screen, is on par with the Mini in regards to battery life. Same with the Nexus 7.

Reportedly they use different technology, LTPS. I doubt Apple can find enough capacity to meet the iPad demand using LTPS.

 

[Renzatic]

3. Renzatic and others are not talking about their personal experience, they're talking smack about Apple's motives, ignoring the real reasons for the gimped displays that I listed above, which you could easily deduce yourself if you read Soneira's reports for the past two years on tablets. This is the only issue I'm arguing with them here. They're "slandering," not in a legal sense but in a common decency sense, taking a cheap shot by saying that Apple cheaped out on the mini display to keep their margins up. Consider how much Apple's spent on developing IGZO already, and you can see how wrong-headed this is.

It's not slander, it's basic deduction. Let's think about it for a second.

iPhone 5/5s - screen runs nearly the full sRGB color gamut. Starts at $650

iPad Air - Apple's first IGZO display device, runs nearly the full sRGB color gamut, being roughly the same quality as the iPad 3/4. Starts at $499.

Retina iPad Mini: May or may not be an IGZO display, not that it matters, because it's bigger brother comes equipped with one, and is able to run the full gamut. Screen is roughly on par with the Galaxy line of phones, and the iPhone 4. Starts at $399.

I'm not just making things up for the sake of olol i h8 apple. I'm thinking Apple sacrificed a bit of quality to keep the price of the new Mini down. Otherwise, it would've been about the same price as the larger Air.

That's incorrect. Assuming everything else is equal, a display with a wider color gamut does require more power because the color filter on the LCD requires brighter backlight.

You're right, but that doesn't necessarily means this might be the case with the Mini. A good panel with a below par backight will net you lower color quality, as will a below par panel in front of a bright backlight.

The only way we'll be able to tell is to compare the nits of the screens of the Nexus 7 and iPad Air vs. the Mini.

 

[fertilized-egg]

You're right, but that doesn't necessarily means this might be the case with the Mini. A good panel with a below par backight will net you lower color quality, as will a below par panel in front of a bright backlight.

The only way we'll be able to tell is to compare the nits of the screens of the Nexus 7 and iPad Air vs. the Mini.

It is the case. A color filter with a wider gamut will require higher power consumption. The Nexus 7 allegedly doesn't use the same transistor technology so the direct comparison isn't valid.

I'm sure part of it is Apple wanting a cheaper panel but also given the larger size and the higher demand of the iPad, I doubt they can find enough production if they go with the type of panels used in the Nexus 7. Keep in mind that neither the Nexus 7 and especially the Kindle 8.9 is a hit product on the iPad's scale.

 

[SlCKB0Y]

Well at least the iPad Mini is priced competitively.

Hahahahahhaa!!

Thanks, I just woke up and needed a good laugh!

 

[bawbac]

I'm thinking Apple sacrificed a bit of quality to keep the price of the new Mini down.

I think they kept cost and equipment lower to sell the rMini at a price point in which they believe would be acceptable while they reap a +60% margin.