Retina iPad Mini's Display Criticized Over Poor Color Gamut and Accuracy

[pocket3d]

Ok, so Ray Soneira blames IGZO for the issues, yet IGZO is the display technology in the iPad Air and just a few weeks ago Soneira was PRAISING the iPad Airs display and talking about Apples use of IGZO is what made the products weight reduction possible.

So which is it? If IGZO truly was a "mistake," then why was he just praising it in the Air?

I imagine issues are much deeper and more complex than people always are willing to look at. There's probably a lot of factors. IGZO isn't prohibiting a rich color gamut as seen in the Air. There's probably a lot of factors at work here, and I'm sure one of the problems Apple has that their competitors don't is that Apple has to actually manufacture 10s of millions of these to keep up with demand, and they need to do so efficiently. Yes, what a terrible problem to have

See here's an example of how Soneira's lousy writing leads to confusion. He doesn't say that the mini is IGZO, but you have to puzzle it out of his confused prose that it is not. But he makes it very clear that he knows better than Apple does how to run their display strategy. He doesn't give the LTPS shortage any attention at all, yet he wants to Apple to try to conjure up 20 million of those displays? He's being a jackass. Someone should tweet Gruber and nominate him for jackass of the month.

 

[pocket3d]

I had the original mini and now have the current one. It is night and day. The screen resolution is instantly noticeable. Anyway, had they not gone Retina they'd have been called out much more intensely for being a generation behind.

Here's my take on the whole color gamut situation. I had both an iPad Air and a Retina mini. Yes, the color gamut was noticeably better on the iPad Air. Yes, it is somewhat disappointing that Apple couldn't match the color gamut of the new Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HDX (and perhaps rushed out IGZO before it was ready). However, on the whole, my assessment is the same as AnandTech's. I decided to keep the mini and return the Air.

Both are good devices, as are the new Nexus 7 and Kindle Fire HDX. I think the iPad Air and new Retina mini will both sell extremely well, and unless someone absolutely needs the accurate colors (e.g. for photo editing), I have no hesitation recommending either.

Yes to everything else you say, but show me where anyone reliable, or even Raymond Motormouth Soneira, says the mini uses IGZO.

 

[Renzatic]

That's in your brain. Turn the tablet upside down (unlock the screen) and you'll see the yellow tint stays on the same side.

Learn to enjoy it. It's part of life, since everything has left or right bias.

...er...uh. If that's the way you see things, you might want to consider visiting an eye doctor. Left/right bias is more about which eye you tend to focus with more strongly, not you seeing things considerably brighter out of one side of your head.

 

[pocket3d]

...er...uh. If that's the way you see things, you might want to consider visiting an eye doctor. Left/right bias is more about which eye you tend to focus with more strongly, not you seeing things considerably brighter out of one side of your head.

I was jerking his chain. Let's hope he doesn't see this. Or was it you?

And I can easily see a nitpicker convincing themselves that it works both ways. Certain eye/neurological problems can work that way also.

 

[Renzatic]

I was jerking his chain. Let's hope he doesn't see this. Or was it you?

It wasn't me. I'm the guy bitching about gamuts.

And I can easily see a nitpicker convincing themselves that it works both ways. Certain eye/neurological problems can work that way also.

Yeah, this is true, and it's possible he's suffering from either/or. Though it's more probable he got a dud Mini, and needs to take it back.

 

[eecyclone]

I read an article on this a few days ago. I was all set to buy an iPad mini but I might get the iPad Air instead now. I'll have to go to the store to see if I can even see a difference in casual usage.

 

[bawbac]

<capt jack>But does it have yellow tint...</capt jack>

 

[pocket3d]

Germaine to the argument is whether the iPad Mini has a IGZO screen; I don't believe that it does for reasons of production constraints. I have the iPad Air 64GB LTE so I don't have any complaints anyway (in hindsight, I should have gone with 128GB!).

Apple has a lot of supply chain advantages, but the one negative is that it needs huge volumes of specific parts; something that most of the competition does not.

The tradeoff might have been gamut vs power efficiency for lack of IGZO capacity. All said, I'm quite happy that Apple is going IGZO generally as it does open up possibilities of cost effective 4K screens next year.

Hey! Someone who gets it!

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iPad Air is IGZO and there is no trade-off for power efficiency or color gamut. Both are present in the iPad Air.

Apple simply chose to do a lower gamut display for the mini.

Because 326 ppi is not available in IGZO yet, for all we know.

 

[pocket3d]

Wow, I hear so much "Baaaaa Baaaaa" in this thread more so than ever. Defending mighty apple like apple is your parent. Sheesh, it's so blatantly clear apple did this gimping on the color panel on purpose. This is to have greater profit margins plain and simple. Money is the #1 goal these days for apple.

And here is the patho view. The #1 reason one is compelled to enter this den of iniquity, after three years of checking in, being repelled, leaving. But this is too much. Not a thought in his head . . .

 

[azurehi]

Interesting comparison between Amazon Kindle Fire HDX 7 – Apple iPad mini Retina Display – new Google Nexus 7:
http://www.displaymate.com/Tablet_ShootOut_4.htm#Table

I apologize if posted earlier in the thread

 

[pocket3d]

LTPS is more plentiful than IGZO.

Because Apple isn't buying them. There was a report last year on Apple Insider that Apple was using 70% of LTPS capacity for their phones. No way could they cover the iPads.

 

[rGiskard]

Because Apple isn't buying them. There was a report last year on Apple Insider that Apple was using 70% of LTPS capacity for their phones. No way could they cover the iPads.

Sure, if Apple told LTPS suppliers they would like to buy 50 million panels, the suppliers would just shrug and say "can't do it, buy from someone else". Supply and demand at work!

 

[jmpage2]

I'm returning my Retina iPad Mini too. Not only are the colors washed out and the gamma too low, mine had a color tint that relative from one side to the other went from yellow to pink. Other than the Retina resolution the display in the Retina iPad Mini is not good.

It is a good display, just not nearly as good as many others out there, which considering the price bump on the new Mini is really not acceptable. On the plus side the rMini does finally get a grown-up cpu/gpu combo which it should have had when Mini released the 1st time.

 

[TaoTeJordan]

When I originally heard about the mini getting retina and having the same resolution as the air, I immediately thought that not only would the mini's display be as good, but even better than he air due to the pixel density. (which is why I am so disappointed to hear about the low gamut)

I haven't seen the mini yet, but for those who have: do you think the screen appears sharper, albeit less vibrant, than the air's? If so, is that worth anything?

 

[Fanaticalism]

Steve would have never of let this happen.

 

[Z3man]

I haven't seen the mini yet, but for those who have: do you think the screen appears sharper, albeit less vibrant, than the air's? If so, is that worth anything?

rMini definitely has a sharper and cleaner look to it than the air, it's a really nice display, don't let what you read on here put you off, go take a look. Yes it is less colourful but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, its less garish and easier on the eye which can be better especially when using it for long periods.

 

[TaoTeJordan]

rMini definitely has a sharper and cleaner look to it than the air, it's a really nice display, don't let what you read on here put you off, go take a look. Yes it is less colourful but that isn't necessarily a bad thing, its less garish and easier on the eye which can be better especially when using it for long periods.

From what I've read--here and elsewhere--I get the impression that the mini views more like a plasma display vs an LED. LED's often overcompensate with bright jarring colors, which many people like, but plasma's, while appearing more dull, are more accurate and life-like. Even though I am a plasma man myself (still rockin the Kuro), I may prefer the bold colors of an LED for a tablet. I'm trying to find a rMini on display near me. Should find one this weekend.

 

[Z3man]

I am a plasma fan with a kuro as well, I hate LCD TVs with a passion, but lcds are ok for pad and computer screens.

 

[rGiskard]

See here's an example of how Soneira's lousy writing leads to confusion. He doesn't say that the mini is IGZO, but you have to puzzle it out of his confused prose that it is not. But he makes it very clear that he knows better than Apple does how to run their display strategy. He doesn't give the LTPS shortage any attention at all, yet he wants to Apple to try to conjure up 20 million of those displays? He's being a jackass. Someone should tweet Gruber and nominate him for jackass of the month.

LTPS shortage? Which LTPS device is affected by this shortage?

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From what I've read--here and elsewhere--I get the impression that the mini views more like a plasma display vs an LED. LED's often overcompensate with bright jarring colors, which many people like, but plasma's, while appearing more dull, are more accurate and life-like. Even though I am a plasma man myself (still rockin the Kuro), I may prefer the bold colors of an LED for a tablet. I'm trying to find a rMini on display near me. Should find one this weekend.

LED is the backlight used on an LCD panel, and there are different kinds of LED backlights. Those generalizations don't hold for all LCD panels.

 

[Agent55]

I just received my mini retina today, and after firing it up with my original mini right next to it, I was confused initially because the display just didn't "wow" me like I expected it to. Even the resolution difference wasn't that obvious. It makes sense now because the color reproduction didn't look any different despite the sizable resolution increase.

I think that illustrates an important aspect of displays in general: color reproduction trumps resolution at a glance. I'm a cinematographer and shoot occasionally on DSLR and mostly on a 4K RAW cinema camera. Obviously the 4K image from the RAW camera is better by a sizable margin. However to me, that noticeable difference has less to do with resolution (especially when finishing said image at 2K), but is massively more impressive because the 4K camera records at 12-bit color depth while the DSLR only manages 8-bit color depth. This equates to a difference of many many thousands of colors between the camera's capabilities.

To the eye it's the difference between "video" and an image that can nearly rub elbows with 35mm film. It's unfortunate Apple didn't consider color depth to be just as important as (headline grabbing) resolution since most people will react more favorably to rich, full colors vs. just really sharp text


Update: Returned mine, just not worth it. I'll stick with my original mini and upgrade in another gen or two.

 

[nealh]

When I originally heard about the mini getting retina and having the same resolution as the air, I immediately thought that not only would the mini's display be as good, but even better than he air due to the pixel density. (which is why I am so disappointed to hear about the low gamut)

I haven't seen the mini yet, but for those who have: do you think the screen appears sharper, albeit less vibrant, than the air's? If so, is that worth anything?

Yes unfortunately

 

[pocket3d]

LTPS shortage? Which LTPS device is affected by this shortage?

http://appleinsider.com/articles/12..._to_consume_70_of_high_res_ltps_screen_supply

Apple's not using LTPS for their impossibly large numbers of iPads allows Amazon and Google to pick up the crumbs for their measly few million tablets, I would conclude.

It's a matter of production capacity, not how much money anyone can throw at it.

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. . . It's unfortunate Apple didn't consider color depth to be just as important as (headline grabbing) resolution since most people will react more favorably to rich, full colors vs. just really sharp text

What is it going to take to get you otherwise smart people to realize that the technology isn't there yet to do a retina screen with full gamut while maintaining the same form, approx weight, and battery life?

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If both the iPad Air and iPad Mini Retina use IGZO then why is the color Gamut 108 on the iPad Air but only 63 on the iPad Mini Retina? Is there another cause other than the display technology being used?

iPad Air
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_16.html

iPad mini Retina
http://www.displaymate.com/Gamut_17.html

They are not both IGZO. Soneira is confusing on this point because he can't write clearly.

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When the larger iPad is better, it is cutting corners. The ipad mini retina's price was already increased from last year's model, why not increase it a bit more and give the same experience as the full sized ipad.

It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of the available technology.

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Yeah, someone at Apple wanted to differentiate the Mini from the Air based on more than just size.

Wrong again. They're not both IGZO. Your fantasy falls flat on its face.

 

[TaoTeJordan]

The screen on the rMini is very impressive but I do see the slightly washed out colors vs my iPad 3

But for me the biggest issue is the small text size. Can't decide on whether I want to keep it. I do love the form factor though

Landscape text size is perfect

Isn't there a way to make the text larger? I thought I read something about that.

 

[pocket3d]

Unless you have an inside man at apple I think its all speculation anyways.
You have your opinion on why apple chose IGZO (Apple is cheap and doesn't really care about quality), and I have mine (Apple was not convinced that mass production of LTPS at 7.9" and 326ppi on the scale needed for the rMini was possible)

And a third to add to your excellent post. Apple has been investing hundreds of millions in IGZO over the past few years, along with Foxconn, to get the tech up and in production. It may have been harder than they thought, but they don't seem to have been found investing in LTPS production, just soaking up 70% of world production for their phones, In any case, they're very aware of both technologies, and they seem to have bet the farm on IGZO. They probably know what they're doing.

Like you say, I would also assume the larger 326 ppi screens are giving them trouble, so no IGZO mini this year.

 

[TaoTeJordan]

If Google release a Nexus 8 soon, would any of you check it out? Or are you apple loyalists? I am to a degree since I'm into music production (not professional...yet), but I may consider a kitkat tablet for reading and other simple things. I would just need android and the device it's on to be a bit more reliable, consistent and smooth. The screen would be nice, and I think it's perfect timing given the mini shortage and recent criticism. Even Time magazine mentioned the color gamut issue, so knowledge of it is not limited to techys and forum junkies (like us) and could possibly (maybe) affect at least some of the general public's decision.

Any thoughts?