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Retina MacBook Pro June refresh GPU

leman said:
You are right! Sorry, I looked at older press releases. It is indeed impressive that Samsung was able to pack all that hardware into 15" body!

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Could you provide a link on that? I was not able to find any official data on the TDP on this card.
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http://www.techpowerup.com/gpudb/1678/.html

this is from the firepro m6000, which is just the version of firepro of the 7870m
xxskorpion88xx said:
Keep in mind that that is no a simplex re brand like nVidia side..There si great performance increase...see review
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I hardly believe that

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4891670
http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/4732727

bill-p said:
It's likely, but there are a few problems that prevent the 8870M or even a re-branded 600M series to make it into a Haswell rMBP:

1) Haswell increases TDP over Ivy Bridge, because the faster integrated GPU needs to consume more power, which leads to more heat. In essence, Haswell increases CPU (and integrated GPU) performance, but at the cost of more heat. Apple will have to play the balance game even more delicately.

2) 600M series is already causing throttling issues with the current rMBP, so chances are that the current super thin design isn't even enough to contain a 45W GPU. Add more heat from the CPU on top of that and you have quite a formula for disaster

3) There is no mention of 8000 series drivers in OSX so far, but there are mentions of 7000 series. so chances are... we'll see 7870M or 7850M instead.

With all of that said, I think the 7850M or 8850M are more likely candidates for the next GPU. Apple has never aggressively pushed graphics performance of their laptops, and it would be silly for them to add so many space heating components into the next rMBP... considering the chassis can't take that much heat to begin with.

The 7850M is not bad, per se. It's about on par with the 660M, which means it is more or less on par with the current 650M in the rMBP (it's overclocked).

And it's not the GPU that's holding the rMBP back from reaching higher resolutions. It's actually VRAM that's the limiting factor. 1GB is barely enough for 1920 x 1080 for some games.

Skyrim is especially bad when you plug high-res textures in.
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We dont know what quads are going to be in the rmbp, there are several ones for mobile, not all of the line up has been revelead

1 and 2) The rmbp 15 cooling is just fine, the throttling happens when you get the higher grade cpus

3) there are mentions of 7000 desktop cards in OSX, remember those systems will come out with OSX 10.9, have you seen any leaks regarding that one?

The vram problem is indeed a very large one for newer games and so forth, but only for games and some high end software
xxskorpion88xx said:
Just 2 things:
Haswell is done not to increasing performance but to optimize energy. Aiding this target it will promise longer battery life 70% more even with a 2.7ghz boosted 3.7ghz base mobile model haswell.
Theotically this thing make possible lowering heat CPU side

Is a fake GPU upgrading if they will put series 7000m ati model..if thay do that..they will have lost a potential acquired (me)

At least considering Samsung example I want 8850m..the driver on board on macos let we hope considering thay series 8000 m is a powerful upgrade of series 7000 m

PS:8850m and 8870 are 2gb vram
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The heat which is TDP in some quads have actually raised by 2w, from 45w to 47w

You prefer that they lie to you putting a 8 instead of a 7, and calling it a day? The 7870m is exactly the 8870m

The 7870m is miles ahead of the 650m, it competes with the 670m and 675m, lets hope that they go with AMD this time around, because I dont see a 670mx being that cool enough or that the 750m is going to be a good power difference from the 650m (still believe that both are one and the same)
 
Realistically, you need 2gb of VRAM in the $2700 rMBP. Otherwise you just get the feeling that 1) Apple is jipping you, and 2) it's nowhere near enough if you want to use the power of the computer for gaming.

Of course I'm all up for user upgradable RAM too. Whenever I'm in an Apple store, the same salesman tries to tell me that the rMBP is faster than a classic with an SSD "because the electrons can get to the ram faster".

I'm genuinely curious as to how well the rMBP sells.
 
xxcysxx said:
I think apple should create a gammer edition mac. you know, like with dual video card in sli or crossfire configuration and all. I bet that will sell like hot cakes.:D
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17" MacBook Pro Retina with dual 680M's.

would be awesome.. but holy hell.. that thing would cost a crapload of money :O
 
Mr MM said:
We dont know what quads are going to be in the rmbp, there are several ones for mobile, not all of the line up has been revelead

1 and 2) The rmbp 15 cooling is just fine, the throttling happens when you get the higher grade cpus

3) there are mentions of 7000 desktop cards in OSX, remember those systems will come out with OSX 10.9, have you seen any leaks regarding that one?

The vram problem is indeed a very large one for newer games and so forth, but only for games and some high end software
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It's almost a guarantee that Apple will be using a quad that's just shy of the Extreme moniker in their lineup. They've done that for 2 years now. I don't see how that is going to change. I wouldn't count on unreleased parts with unknown specifications. Also to note, we have a 35W Ivy Bridge quad-core chip now, but Apple ain't using it in any of their product.

1) The rMBP 15" cooling is not fine. That's why we have this problem:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1452267/

And that's why there were rumors that Apple would have to tweak it.

2) Base models with lower TDP processors are also affected by that bug. It's more dependent on use (heavy gaming? Heavy video editing?) than on specifications.

3) As far as I know, both AMD and nVidia provide unified drivers for all of their GPUs, so it's not just "desktop 7000" but the whole 7000 family. Basically, if you have drivers for one of them, then it should work with the rest. And the drivers were included in OSX 10.8.3. You don't have to wait for 10.9. My guess is that Apple will either push out a new Mac Pro, or they'll use 7000M cards in the next refresh. My money is on 7000M cards for next refresh.

VRAM is also a problem for desktop... as hard as it is to believe. Maintaining 3840 x 2400 (1920 x 1200 HiDPI) framebuffers naturally require 4 times the amount of power, and that's on top of maintaining downscaled 2880 x 1800 framebuffers. Couple that with having to drive up to 3 external displays with 2 of them being possibly 2560 x 1600 can result in some crazy maths. The way Apple implements HiDPI right now blows up VRAM usage over multiple times what it was before. I'd think that's why the rMBP 13" has a modified HD 4000 driver that reaches 768MB VRAM.
 
xxskorpion88xx said:
http://m.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-8790m-mars-benchmark,3382.html
Now is more easy for you believe me...read ALL the 10page of review xP
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Believe in what?

bill-p said:
It's almost a guarantee that Apple will be using a quad that's just shy of the Extreme moniker in their lineup. They've done that for 2 years now. I don't see how that is going to change. I wouldn't count on unreleased parts with unknown specifications. Also to note, we have a 35W Ivy Bridge quad-core chip now, but Apple ain't using it in any of their product.

1) The rMBP 15" cooling is not fine. That's why we have this problem:
https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1452267/

And that's why there were rumors that Apple would have to tweak it.

2) Base models with lower TDP processors are also affected by that bug. It's more dependent on use (heavy gaming? Heavy video editing?) than on specifications.

3) As far as I know, both AMD and nVidia provide unified drivers for all of their GPUs, so it's not just "desktop 7000" but the whole 7000 family. Basically, if you have drivers for one of them, then it should work with the rest. And the drivers were included in OSX 10.8.3. You don't have to wait for 10.9. My guess is that Apple will either push out a new Mac Pro, or they'll use 7000M cards in the next refresh. My money is on 7000M cards for next refresh.

VRAM is also a problem for desktop... as hard as it is to believe. Maintaining 3840 x 2400 (1920 x 1200 HiDPI) framebuffers naturally require 4 times the amount of power, and that's on top of maintaining downscaled 2880 x 1800 framebuffers. Couple that with having to drive up to 3 external displays with 2 of them being possibly 2560 x 1600 can result in some crazy maths. The way Apple implements HiDPI right now blows up VRAM usage over multiple times what it was before. I'd think that's why the rMBP 13" has a modified HD 4000 driver that reaches 768MB VRAM.
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1) you should have linked the thread that they are doing stress on the cpu not this one. And yes its fine, the aside that there were some changes, not to mention there are still rumours that the rmbp is going for another round of tweaks with haswell

2) That bug is still undetermined whats causing that, the most accepted version of possible causes is sleep coupled with some other factors

3) Both AMD and nvidia have their mobile and desktop drivers in different programs. Nvidia is called verde and AMD is/was called bacon

4) Vram is a problem for the tasks that I said, they have very little bearings on establishing the useful res, specially after you get over 512mb, the bandwidth play a major role in several high demanding tasks and the speed of the said Vram, but 1gb minimum is minimum.

5) in all probability 10.9 is going to be launched with the new haswell line up, as they usually do, or very close to that launch
 
Mr MM said:
1) you should have linked the thread that they are doing stress on the cpu not this one. And yes its fine, the aside that there were some changes, not to mention there are still rumours that the rmbp is going for another round of tweaks with haswell
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No, it's not fine. The fact that the EFI bug exists shows that something is definitely not working within Apple's specifications, and the firmware is choosing to completely throttle everything in the computer as a result.

I'm not sure if you own a rMBP, but the effect of the EFI bug is pretty profound. The computer runs many times slower than how it would be if the bug wasn't there.

2) That bug is still undetermined whats causing that, the most accepted version of possible causes is sleep coupled with some other factors
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The behavior is that of a thermal-throttled scenario, so it's very likely related to thermal sensors.

Also I own a rMBP that's affected by the bug, so I know for sure that simply telling the computer to sleep (via Apple menu, or just close the lid) when there is nothing running doesn't cause the bug.

3) Both AMD and nvidia have their mobile and desktop drivers in different programs. Nvidia is called verde and AMD is/was called bacon
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I'm not talking about the programs. I'm talking about the fact that the drivers are "unified", as in: all of their graphics chips can use the same drivers. For instance, you can use nVidia's desktop drivers for their mobile GPUs.

4) Vram is a problem for the tasks that I said, they have very little bearings on establishing the useful res, specially after you get over 512mb, the bandwidth play a major role in several high demanding tasks and the speed of the said Vram, but 1gb minimum is minimum.
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The interface of OSX uses VRAM to store windows and frames that it uses for full screen animations like with Mission Control and Launch Pad.

VRAM may not have been an issue with older OSes, but it's very much an issue now.

If not, why do you think Apple needs so much VRAM with its Retina Mac? (note: rMBP 15" forces the dedicated GPU whenever an external screen is connected)

5) in all probability 10.9 is going to be launched with the new haswell line up, as they usually do, or very close to that launch
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There's no information on 10.9 up to this point, and 10.8.3 is not even released yet. It's March. We are 3 months away from WWDC. If Apple is going to launch 10.9 in 3 months, then there should have been more information on the OS.

In all likelihoods, I think 10.8.3 is what will be announced at WWDC at this rate... unless Apple feels generous and releases it in the next few weeks.

They may still "announce" 10.9 and show a preview, but it's not likely they'll launch or release the OS with Haswell. That's too much of a stretch.
 
xxskorpion88xx said:
Belive that amd side is more that a simple rebrand like nvidia usually do
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its a simple rebrand, I have read that article when it launched.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6571/amd-releases-full-product-specifications-for-radeon-8000m-series

its still much more powerful than the 650m that apple has put on the 15 models, so in the end it doesnt matter if its a rebrand or not, its a great gpu, with low power consumption (its based on the 7770), low heat production and its a going to be a great upgrade in terms of GPGPU power and other things compared to 650m, including gaming

btw if you wanna be excited be about this
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6751/amd-reiterates-2013-gpu-plans-sea-islands-beyond

the true 7800 series replacement is going to be launched in Q2 and later, I hope they keep the low heat and low power consumption as a focus, the 670mx and 675mx are in the 75w TDP range, and those are the kepler parts that the 7870m used to compete
 
So what is the most probable scenario will we could have on refresh?

Why there is Amd driver on ox kernel if ISn t there product with 7000m? This justify our hopes or is just an illusion?

And what about thermal heat in macbook retina? I have to expect 105celsius even after refresh on Max load?

And tell me more about Efi bug..what s ?
 
xxskorpion88xx said:
So what is the most probable scenario will we could have on refresh?

Why there is Amd driver on ox kernel if ISn t there product with 7000m? This justify our hopes or is just an illusion?

And what about thermal heat in macbook retina? I have to expect 105celsius even after refresh on Max load?

And tell me more about Efi bug..what s ?
Click to expand...

1) told you its a separate drivers program, mobile and desktop

2) The 7000 is there because in terms of GPGPU and openCL performance the 7970 trounced everything that nvidia launched, Tesla changed that

3) RMBP 13 they have no problems, the 15 are rumoured to have changes in the cooling again, and the other thread has established that the base cpu models dont throttle because of heat

4) you can read about the EFI bug that has been plaguing the rmbp for some time on the thread that was linked
 
What about rams? Micron 1600 are on retina mbp and the 1866 model are in the same catalogue either ddr3l..is possible a refresh?
 
xxskorpion88xx said:
What had I won? Why Is not possible for you put onboard 1866mhz? Ddr3l ofc
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Honestly, it sounds like you don't want a rMBP. Clearly you have gaming in mind at high resolutions, and that just isn't what the rMBP is for. Apple may be coming around SOMEWHAT on gaming as main function for computers since Jobs passed, but it will be a cold day in hell when a notebook as thin and light as the rMBP runs new games at max at 2880x1800...that just isn't going to happen, and there isn't a refresh that will make that happen. Don't by a macbook pro just because if it doesn't fit what you want to do with it. It's a great notebook, but if you're comparing this to other products and planning on waiting until it catches up, then just go buy the product that actually has what you want.
 
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