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I like the hater's reasoning. So because of a tiny bit of lag on a few exceptional websites, it is best to avoid buying this product entirely?

Also, to everyone complaining about the GPU, it is the fastest one for it's power foot print, so unless you want 3 hour battery life, this is as good as it gets on a laptop with decent battery.

Finally, the scrolling lag is entirely a limit of the CPU and has nothing to do with the GPU, so again for everyone saying Apple should have done more, please explain, did you expect them to build a CPU better than what Intel has to offer?
 
Web scrolling is CPU (and one core, at that), not GPU. Chalk that up to a combination of bad coding (Facebook, cough) and the limitations of the sheer number of pixels with current browser tech.

The 650M in the retina is also, jokingly, referred to as the 660M since it is tweaked and overclocked out of the box. They didn't go to a 680 because it's an energy-sucking furnace.
Yeah, Facebook's coding is questionable at best but on an Ivy Bridge Core i7? I agree though, try it on another website.
 
I have been using mine for 4 days now. Love it. I have noticed some UI lag with Mission Control perhaps twice, both times with 4-5 Mac apps and 4-5 Windows apps (using Parallels) open, hooked up to a VPN, etc. But that is nothing I wouldn't see on my Air sometimes too. The overwhelming majority of websites scroll fine. NYT, MacRumors, Reddit are flawless. ESPN has some jumpiness, but pretty good. The only one I've seen be really laggy is Facebook, Anand is right that it is a mess. (Using Lion)

As I just posted in another thread, Word and other "legacy" apps display text that appears fuzzy, except at native 2880 res, where they are butter. Tiny, tiny butter.

Sure, I can't run Starcraft II at 2880x1440 and Ultra settings. I've got got a Windows gaming rig I built myself last year with a Radeon 6950 2GB, and I am skeptical whether it could do that either--but I don't have a 2880x1440 monitor to test it on.

TL/DR: I'm sure the rMBP does push the limits of its graphics hardware. But general operations are within those limits.
 
This is fairly typical of Apple; you never want to buy the first version of anything they make since it will be lacking.

They have this obsession with underpowered graphics too. Just look at the "new" Mac Pro with a three year old graphics card slower than the display on your phone.
 
frankly as long as the screen is bright, free from dead pixels, and at least offers HD resolutions I'm really not bothered about a retina display, at least until GPU's can drive them flawlessly. To me it seems like a ton of wasted power, which could go more for rendering and video encoding etc.
 
Are you a complete idiot, the product works fine, read the actual Anandtech piece.

So let me get this straight...Apple releases a product that doesn't work right as advertised/promised
Don't be an ignorant troll the machine works just as advertised.
and expects its customers to upgrade the OS months down the road in order to (supposedly) perform the way it was supposed to perform in the first place.
The upgrade gives you better performance, as it currently is the retina MBP works fine. Maybe you haven't noticed that past Mac OS updates often improve performance, Mountain Lion is the same story.

In any event read the article referenced instead of relying on Mac Rumors yellow journalism. The actual comments about the machine are far more positive than this bit from Mac Rumors.
Mmmmmm, sorry...that's either misleading advertising or if it's a bug, Apple should claim it a bug and address it.

Bull crap, show me one example of a retina MBP not working correctly! You can't say it isn't working correctly simply because a frame rate in one app doesn't meet some odd performance metric. On both my gen 3 iPad and my old MBP, I can find all sorts of web sites that bring them to a crawl that doesn't imply that either machine is broken. Further if it is understood correctly the problem appear to be with Safari and it's ability to render 4X graphics fast enough for one mode of operation of the screen. That is a CPU / Safari problem, interestingly Safari gets a major update in ML.
 
Lol.... My gtx 690 thrives at those res..... Was always suspect of the lightweights in the HD 4000 and GT650...

Comparing a desktop class GPU to a mobile one, that's your idea of intelligent conversation?
 
You're planning on carrying around a device larger than the laptop? No, I didn't think so.

I amazes me how many people just don't understand what the TB port is. The TB port is a 4-lane PCIe path, at best. Graphics cards are 16 lane. So unless you are planning on only utilizing 25% of the bandwidth, this is a failure. This is also why a Retina external monitor is likely going to come with stickers "for direct connection to the computer only" Go take a look at benchmarks where the benchmark user saturates the TB bus and has the monitor running at maximum resolution.

The TB port, as-is, is not in a state where you're going to be able to just dump anything on it and get 100% of the performance. Adding a retina display goes from 5.8Gbit/sec at 1920x1200 to 21.4Gbit/sec at 3840x2160. Display port supports only 17Gbit/sec of video bandwidth. The TB interface only supports 40Gbits of half duplex communications. So where are you going to get the bandwidth to run a video card when it can't even push the pixels required for the retina display?

The reason for Safari's performance to be pretty poor on a high resolution display, lies in the underlying way web browsers render things. They are not natively using the video card at all. All of it is done on the CPU. Things like Adobe flash, even when they are GPU aware don't even scale beyond 720p because of limitations of the flash platform. Go take any old flash cartoon made with Flash 8 or earlier, newgrounds has plenty of them, maximize the flash animation. You'll see several issues:
1. If it contains flash video, it will tear into "bands" across the number of cpu cores in the system
2. If it contains vector animation, it will drop frames at all quality levels once it gets past 720p. Expanding it to 1080p or the Retina display will likely see it drop into single-digit framerates. This is because Flash, is only as fast as a single core in the system, which we've gone from 3Ghz cores in the Pentium 4 down to 1.7Ghz cores in Ivy Bridge.

As a result, Webkit is also only as fast as a single core in the system. You may get separate threads working on different tabs, or separate threads working on separate flash animations in the page, but ultimately, only one thread is ever used to render a web page. Even Javascript implementations in other browsers have gone from supporting multiple threads to only a single thread , so the reason facebook gets slower with the larger the screen real estate, comes back to only one thread being used for a script. Little of the page can be rendered directly on the GPU since it has to interact with the web browser DOM anyway.

So you're seeing the slow down because more has to be done by the CPU. Not the GPU. 4 cores don't render a page, only one does. When you make that page 4 times larger in area, you don't magically get that for free.

Thank u,
Best post i have read on this site in weeks! Thank you! It puts the rmbp in a whole other perspective. I don't believe this is a rev A product. This is an evolution, not a revolutionary product.
 
Basically it should run the fastest at the 2880*1800 resolution due to no scaling algorithms being used at all. What causes this "lag" is scaling when you use different resolutions. Lion renders the page at quadruple resolution and then downscales, which is a lot of work on the CPU. But if you run it at native resolution then it should be the fastest possible. I hope that the retina resolution through the HDPI mode is as fast as the native resolution as well because that's what most people will use.

That's what FOUR TIMES the pixels will do. ;)
Maybe it is time to take a look at the CPU usage too? Try it out on Windows 7/8 where you are not playing the scaling game for "non-native" applications? I remember them dropping the line for "non-Retina" applications but the scaling game, load, and UI responsiveness is a patch job that is not like Apple.
 
This is why I feel like waiting for the 2nd revision really is a good idea.

My plan is to wait for the third or fourth revision. The 2nd revision will not be perfect, and anything less than perfect is completely and utterly useless.

While I wait, I'm going to enjoy my mid-2012 Retina MBP. It's the third generation of the MBP. Generations are better than revisions.

What if they add a new feature to the next revision? You won't be able to buy that one because the new feature is too new. You'll have to wait until the next revision, and pray they don't do anything new: "Optical Thunderbolt? I guess that means I can't buy this one. It's too cutting edge!"
 
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Maybe it is time to take a look at the CPU usage too? Try it out on Windows 7/8 where you are not playing the scaling game for "non-native" applications? I remember them dropping the line for "non-Retina" applications but the scaling game, load, and UI responsiveness is a patch job that is not like Apple.

If you read the Anandtech review, what you call the "patch job" is actually praised for being highly innovative and quite good all things considered. That is precisely what is pushing the hardware limits, it is too cutting edge, and the payoff is huge. There is absolutely nothing that compares to this screen. Even my iPad 3 doesn't look as crisp and sharp as this screen, even though it too technically qualifies as "Retina".
 
I understand that the smaller display of a notebook may be ideal for a "retina" display, but a desktop card would seem to be more appropriate. I know notebook sales are higher for Apple, though I'm surprised they didn't produce a desktop system (a smaller iMac model, perhaps a 21", which isn't much larger than a MacBook Pro) with retina first as this seems to be pushing the limits (as apparent with the current iPad).
 
DJ (Video and Audio Mixing)

I am looking to get the rMBP for my DJ set up. Right now I have a 09 MBP with only 256mb Intergrated, but I need the extra graphics ability to play Videos. With the rMBP I was assuming that the 1gb video ability would be ok but the playback needs to be buttery smooth and in HD (720P). Would this be cause for concern I would be assuming the rMBP would be under a heavier load when doing video mixing with 2 videos being mixed. Any Thoughts?

Thanks, Mike
 
If you read the Anandtech review, what you call the "patch job" is actually praised for being highly innovative and quite good all things considered. That is precisely what is pushing the hardware limits, it is too cutting edge, and the payoff is huge. There is absolutely nothing that compares to this screen. Even my iPad 3 doesn't look as crisp and sharp as this screen, even though it too technically qualifies as "Retina".
I am all for higher resolution displays. It is just that the stopgap penalty is too high.

I also know what kind of hardware is required for pushing pixels on these panels. It is not what the GT 650M is meant to deliver.
 
If you read the Anandtech review, what you call the "patch job" is actually praised for being highly innovative and quite good all things considered. That is precisely what is pushing the hardware limits, it is too cutting edge, and the payoff is huge. There is absolutely nothing that compares to this screen. Even my iPad 3 doesn't look as crisp and sharp as this screen, even though it too technically qualifies as "Retina".

I tried the Retina, it has some issues with lag. The work done was patch work. Just trying to make it work enough to sell. Of course, in store it worked beautifully for websites employees and preloaded. I of courses tested several websites that were not in history and I knew had some regular usage work in terms of rendering and loading.

I was not surprised to find lower responsiveness compared to my current MacBook and also, even though it was pre-loaded, Facebook still struggled a bit. The retina is beautiful, no doubt. But this is something that should have waited. The GTX650M is not for this work. It is already stressed as is.

IMHO, Apple should look a step higher than the GTXx50M cards, most definitely the GTX x60M series and quite possibly the GTX x65M or x70M.
 
I tried the Retina, it has some issues with lag. The work done was patch work. Just trying to make it work enough to sell. Of course, in store it worked beautifully for websites employees and preloaded. I of courses tested several websites that were not in history and I knew had some regular usage work in terms of rendering and loading.

I was not surprised to find lower responsiveness compared to my current MacBook and also, even though it was pre-loaded, Facebook still struggled a bit. The retina is beautiful, no doubt. But this is something that should have waited. The GTX650M is not for this work. It is already stressed as is.

IMHO, Apple should look a step higher than the GTXx50M cards, most definitely the GTX x60M series and quite possibly the GTX x65M or x70M.
The GT 640/650/660M are all the same GK107 core with varying clock speeds and VRAM types/densities.


Just trying to make it work enough to sell.
Which makes for a fine commercial and marketing material. Disregard the anyone that can read a benchmark.
 
I am all for higher resolution displays. It is just that the stopgap penalty is too high.

Stopgap penalty? What the hell are you talking about? Only a few exceptional websites like Facebook present any problem whatsoever on ML. And the lag/jerkiness is pretty minor. I know I have the machine. This complaint is seriously blown way out of proportion, and I suspect precisely because so many can't afford to get this new laptop. When you actually poll or ask people if they are satisfied with their RMBP, you get a ratio of 5-1. That's 83% satisfaction using, presumably, mostly Lion, that isn't nearly as optimized as ML.
 
Stopgap penalty? What the hell are you talking about? Only a few exceptional websites like Facebook present any problem whatsoever on ML. And the lag/jerkiness is pretty minor. I know I have the machine. This complaint is seriously blown way out of proportion, and I suspect precisely because so many can't afford to get this new laptop. When you actually poll or ask people if they are satisfied with their RMBP, you get a ratio of 5-1. That's 83% satisfaction using, presumably, mostly Lion, that isn't nearly as optimized as ML.
I would lie about my satisfaction to save face after spending that much. I can afford one but why again? Maybe I read too much into the hardware before I reach the display panel and the safety of my lap in the summer.
 
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