Retiring Pismo

[Macbookprodude]

As the title says the best times of one’s life can never come back like it was. I feel like I have been asleep for close to 18 years and all that time I just let every hour and second fly when OS 9 between 2002-maybe 2011 was working and nostalgia could be relived.

With the current situation now grim and Covid-19 here, I feel this trip down OS 9 lane has been a very very PAINFUL and DEPRESSING experience. Top that on the fact, that I just recently ordered all sorts of things to be happy with while using my G4 Pismo. Brand new msata M2 board and 44-pin to M2 so I can have a faster experience with the Pismo - who knows maybe Tiger and TenFourFox will be usable.

In addition, bought Office 2001, X, soundjam MP Plus with all updates on my Mac pro ready to be used. I can see one issue after another - internet is no longer working properly, iTunes doesn’t work, though dronecatcher told me a way to do it.

Guys, I am at my wits end as I have fallen into a severe depression hoping this nostalgic reliving of OS 9 would help me, however I see it as destructive. Please advise how I can make my OS 9 nostalgia be like it was that day when in 2000 I bought my 1st Power Mac G4 sawtooth 350 where I was happy only to lose it all in late 2001-2002 because of financial issues.

Please keep me in your prayers, as I don’t know what to do anymore about this. I have 2 other PPC machines left - the DLSD G4 which just works (no issues with web), and a mighty G5 Quad - but something about OS 9 and me are linked.

I fully haven’t decided to retire the Pismo yet until I get feedback from you all. I am so sorry I bothered a lot of you about OS 9, but nostalgia and wanting this all to work like it did 15-20 years ago has made me regret it dearly.

Can someone tell me when was the last time OS 9 was fully functional - internet browsing and everything ? What damage did I do to miss the opportunity ??? Was it 2010 ? Was it 2007 ? I really hate my life and what has happened to me over the many years. I don’t know even how to get back to a normal life.

God bless you all and please help me.

Roman

 

[repairedCheese]

I honestly can't tell you. All browsers on unsupported systems were struck by the TLS apocalypse in 2018, which made it much, much harder to use a browser that still kind of worked on newer websites, and meant that people running those sites simply had no reason to care about old browser support.

And as for PPC macs, I'd say I've had a better time with LeopardWebKit on my 700mhz eMac running Leopard, obviously, than I ever did trying to get TenFourFox to work. But that doesn't mean I don't didn't get the thing for OS 9, it just means when I need to browse the internet, I leave it.

And that's the thing about this old hardware, you can get away from all the distractions of the modern internet, it's often too much of a bother anyway.

 

[Macbookprodude]

So 2018 was the cut off for OS 9 to browse like in 2000-2001 ?? And I missed it as I was asleep 2 years and didn’t know :-( so, I could goto Wikipedia in 2017 under IE 5.1.7, Netscape 7, and classila wirhout any issues ??? OMG ! I feel horrible now.

 

[eyoungren]

I wish I could help, but as others will confirm, my experience with OS9 when it was current was not a pleasant one. I was more than happy to ditch OS9 when Jaguar became the first version of OS X that could reliably be used for graphic design work.

If I'm going to be nostalgic about older versions of OS then System 7.6.1 is it.

 

[repairedCheese]

Without trouble? I wouldn't exactly say that, but there actually are ways around it. That said, there are ways around it. Assuming you have a more modern computer, other communities have been hard at work trying to get ancient hardware back online. Sure, Youtube is sort of a lost cause natively, but that doesn't mean there's no work around.

You do need another computer to make this work, but I know of at least one proxy server that should do what you need.
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If I'm going to be nostalgic about older versions of OS then System 7.6.1 is it.

System 8.1 is the one I go back to. I didn't have access to anything better than 68k Mac emulators, so even though 7.5.5 was freely available from Apple at the time, 8.1 was a challenge on every level, and getting it working felt like an achievement.

 

[eyoungren]

So 2018 was the cut off for OS 9 to browse like in 2000-2001 ?? And I missed it as I was asleep 2 years and didn’t know :-( so, I could goto Wikipedia in 2017 under IE 5.1.7, Netscape 7, and classila wirhout any issues ??? OMG ! I feel horrible now.

I think you're putting way too much gloss on this. I don't recall any real website sophistication during that time period. You're like the guy who wants to drive down the freeway in his Ford Model T with his sports cap, scarf and googles expecting a good time - while you get passed by the traffic of 2020 with people laying on their horns.

Yah know…every once in a while I pull out Netscape Navigator and for 30-45 seconds remember just how crude the internet was back then.

I'm sorry, I hate to destroy fantasies, but I had an old instructor once that was a teen in the 50s. He told the class that there was garbage that got made in the 50s too. Not everything you idealize is or was the way you remember it.

 

[Macbookprodude]

In ref to the TLS apocalypse, is there anyway around it ? OS 9 is part of my life.. a life I missed out on less than 5 years ago when it was all working like it did in 2000-2001. I am really not feeling well.

 

[eyoungren]

Without trouble? I wouldn't exactly say that, but there actually are ways around it. That said, there are ways around it. Assuming you have a more modern computer, other communities have been hard at work trying to get ancient hardware back online. Sure, Youtube is sort of a lost cause natively, but that doesn't mean there's no work around.

You do need another computer to make this work, but I know of at least one proxy server that should do what you need.
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System 8.1 is the one I go back to. I didn't have access to anything better than 68k Mac emulators, so even though 7.5.5 was freely available from Apple at the time, 8.1 was a challenge on every level, and getting it working felt like an achievement.

My design classes were on Mac IIci's and later IIvx's. System 7 was predominate.

Only when I came back to finish up had the school moved on to iMacs and OS 8.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I think you're putting way too much gloss on this. I don't recall any real website sophistication during that time period. You're like the guy who wants to drive down the freeway in his Ford Model T with his sports cap, scarf and googles expecting a good time - while you get passed by the traffic of 2020 with people laying on their horns.

Yah know…every once in a while I pull out Netscape Navigator and for 30-45 seconds remember just how crude the internet was back then.

I'm sorry, I hate to destroy fantasies, but I had an old instructor once that was a teen in the 50s. He told the class that there was garbage that got made in the 50s too. Not everything you idealize is or was the way you remember it.

Erik, I know what you mean, but I had wonderful experience with the web when OS 9 or even 8.6 was doing just fine. I just want to go back to that time. And not long ago before all this TLS stuff(didn’t anyone protest against this in 2018) - I feel even in 2016 I could have browsed the web with no issues on OS 9, or tiger or leopard using the older safari. How did all this happen while I was asleep for so long ??

 

[repairedCheese]

@Macbookprodude Honestly, I'm a little jealous of your laptop. My eMac feels like it's on its last legs, and I only really wanted the thing for its classic abilities. Having a PMG5 means I don't really need to worry about OSX unless I wanted one of the beastly quads, but my two computers that can run classic aren't the best.

@eyoungren You know, it's funny, my high school was in the process of switching to pc, and I discovered a love for good old Maxis Sim games from the ones I found on the Macs there. But I had a pc at home, so copying things to floppy and taking them home was a bit of a challenge.

 

[z970]

I'm going to put away the usual public etiquette for a second because I feel it necessary -

Everybody in the world is depressed now, man. Their lives and very realities have all been turned on their heads, and now most everyone you look at is behind closed doors, struggling very hard to cope with this new life and society flung at them from out of damn near nowhere. But the truth is that far too many of us were fighting terrible depression way before this virus existed. For those in that group, the pandemic and ensuing lockdowns changed nothing in their lives, because they were already living it for years.

As someone with a... hands-on knowledge of the aforementioned topic, it's always helped me to realize that no matter what the talking heads in the living room idiot box have to say, no matter what anonymous commentators on news sites think out loud, and no matter what the newest numbers relentlessly (questionably) feed our inner alarmists, there remain several facts of life that will hold true until the planet gets hit by a meteor:

The grass will remain green...

The sun will rise again...

And everything under it, this too indeed, shall pass.

Humanity rode all past pandemics out like waves. Coronavirus is incapable of being any different. Just as well for anything else that we could possibly trouble ourselves with in the meantime, and that's just the truth of the matter.

Remember that a little perspective is never amiss ...

 

[repairedCheese]

(didn’t anyone protest against this in 2018)

You have to understand, people do business on the internet. Real business, involving real laws. If they couldn't have trust, that all goes away. It's the only reason open wifi is mostly safe, back in college I knew a guy with software that could watch what sites people were on, and what data they were sending. SSL and TSL everywhere put a stop to that. The people who invented the internet didn't expect capitalism or crime to come to it. And unfortunately, Mac OS 9.2, much like my beloved Windows 98, simply got left behind.

 

[eyoungren]

Erik, I know what you mean, but I had wonderful experience with the web when OS 9 or even 8.6 was doing just fine. I just want to go back to that time. And not long ago before all this TLS stuff(didn’t anyone protest against this in 2018) - I feel even in 2016 I could have browsed the web with no issues on OS 9, or tiger or leopard using the older safari. How did all this happen while I was asleep for so long ??

No one protested because changing improved security - and the majority of people want the web to push forward.

I get it. There was a small time in my life where I really enjoyed what was happening. But people get older, focus changes and time moves on. You're trying to recapture something and that's good. I just don't think it's possible, because the 'net of today isn't going to rollback for you. And security online is a real important part of being online now.
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@eyoungren You know, it's funny, my high school was in the process of switching to pc, and I discovered a love for good old Maxis Sim games from the ones I found on the Macs there. But I had a pc at home, so copying things to floppy and taking them home was a bit of a challenge.

I was PC when SimcCity 2000 launched. And I got my first optical drive (like many other people) when Myst launched. Fun times.

 

[repairedCheese]

I was PC when SimcCity 2000 launched. And I got my first optical drive (like many other people) when Myst launched. Fun times.

I ended up with the absolute worst version of SimEarth, though, you haven't played a bad version of, frankly, a weaker game until you've played SimEarth for DOS. There was even a Windows port. I have no idea why I ended up with the DOS version.

And for the most part, the Mac versions are as good, if not better. Emulating them is certainly easier, nothing demands more than a 68k cpu. And learning all about the other classic Mac games was a draw to these old computers. It's more fun on real hardware, too.

 

[Macbookprodude]

@Macbookprodude Honestly, I'm a little jealous of your laptop. My eMac feels like it's on its last legs, and I only really wanted the thing for its classic abilities. Having a PMG5 means I don't really need to worry about OSX unless I wanted one of the beastly quads, but my two computers that can run classic aren't the best.

@eyoungren You know, it's funny, my high school was in the process of switching to pc, and I discovered a love for good old Maxis Sim games from the ones I found on the Macs there. But I had a pc at home, so copying things to floppy and taking them home was a bit of a challenge.

Today, I am declaring war on Mozilla, Microsoft, and all those who take away our rights just for stupid TLS security. I am not against security of the web, no, but I am against the FORCED OBSOLENSE OF good web browsers. No reason why Classila should have these issues, IE, or any other "outdated" browser - only outdated because those morons want us to throw away good working browsers.. Right, like we need https for WIKIPEDIA or youtube... HTTPS should only be used for banking and personal credit information, HTTP for the rest - How can we start a protest ? I want my nostalgia back to be real. I will do what it takes to OVERTHROW these morons.

 

[z970]

There's such a wisdom to this song...

 

[Macbookprodude]

You have to understand, people do business on the internet. Real business, involving real laws. If they couldn't have trust, that all goes away. It's the only reason open wifi is mostly safe, back in college I knew a guy with software that could watch what sites people were on, and what data they were sending. SSL and TSL everywhere put a stop to that. The people who invented the internet didn't expect capitalism or crime to come to it. And unfortunately, Mac OS 9.2, much like my beloved Windows 98, simply got left behind.

I really don't care. They can still do business by using HTTPS when going to those sites..l no reason why youtube, wikipedia, online encarta if you may... should have to use https.. i AM SORRY, but I want my rights back to use older safari for general browsing. I hate today's internet and I hate those companies who support such a TOTALITARIAN AND TYRANNICAL internet rule such as this. WE WILL FIGHT AGAINST THIS.

Mac OS 9.2, much like my beloved Windows 98, simply got left behind -BY TOTALITARIAN AND TYRANNICAL WEB COMPANIES. They are fine.. innocent web browsers. As a protest to Google(I hate their founders as they are from my country and we didn't like their kind there) I WILL USE everything UNSECURE.

 

[oshimai]

All browsers on unsupported systems were struck by the TLS apocalypse in 2018, which made it much, much harder to use a browser that still kind of worked on newer websites, and meant that people running those sites simply had no reason to care about old browser support.

If you have a spare computer somewhere, there's nothing stopping you from spinning up a small proxy server that down converts the modern TLS versions to vintage versions or just plain HTTP.

Since it runs in your home network, the security risk is minimal (the risk of running an old browser is much higher but then again eventually you get to a point where your browser is so old that it's probably quite safe again, because no hacker will realistically target it).

Overview of WebOne

HTTP 1.x proxy that makes old web browsers usable again in the Web 2.0 world. - atauenis/webone

github.com

Just one example. There are a few of these projects.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I really don't care. They can still do business by using HTTPS when going to those sites..l no reason why youtube, wikipedia, online encarta if you may... should have to use https.. i AM SORRY, but I want my rights back to use older safari for general browsing. I hate today's internet and I hate those companies who support such a TOTALITARIAN AND TYRANNICAL internet rule such as this. WE WILL FIGHT AGAINST THIS.

Mac OS 9.2, much like my beloved Windows 98, simply got left behind -BY TOTALITARIAN AND TYRANNICAL WEB COMPANIES. They are fine.. innocent web browsers. As a protest to Google(I hate their founders as they are from my country and we didn't like their kind there) I WILL USE everything UNSECURE.

Classila has TLS as all the other browsers did - this is just an attempt to rule over the people's wants and desires. Trust me, i HATE Chrome.
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If you have a spare computer somewhere, there's nothing stopping you from spinning up a small proxy server that down converts the modern TLS versions to vintage versions or just plain HTTP.

Since it runs in your home network, the security risk is minimal (the risk of running an old browser is much higher but then again eventually you get to a point where your browser is so old that it's probably quite safe again, because no hacker will realistically target it).

Overview of WebOne

HTTP 1.x proxy that makes old web browsers usable again in the Web 2.0 world. - atauenis/webone

github.com

Just one example. There are a few of these projects.

Explain. How do I use this if i want to use Classila in OS 9 ? Or, even good working older safari versions. I still like my idea of declaring war on those who take away our internet rights to use what we want and how. Security does not matter to me at all, really. because I am behind firewalls.
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If you have a spare computer somewhere, there's nothing stopping you from spinning up a small proxy server that down converts the modern TLS versions to vintage versions or just plain HTTP.

Since it runs in your home network, the security risk is minimal (the risk of running an old browser is much higher but then again eventually you get to a point where your browser is so old that it's probably quite safe again, because no hacker will realistically target it).

Overview of WebOne

HTTP 1.x proxy that makes old web browsers usable again in the Web 2.0 world. - atauenis/webone

github.com

Just one example. There are a few of these projects.

Sorry, I didn't mean to scream. I am just against TOTALITARIANISM OF THE WEB by google and those who want to make old good, functioning web browsers obsolete. What if I only had a windows xp machine or windows 2000 machine ? I would be SOL. No, I want action and want to start a protest against this TLS apocalypse - if Christ conquered death, then we can conquer this as people of the net.
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Funny, in 1995 according to this:

1995

The original HTTPS protocol was released in 1995. Dubbed Secure Socket Layer, or SSL for short, it enabled companies to handle credit card transactions online by protecting your payment details and helping to prove that the merchants you visited were who they said they were.

And now they want an apocalypse or already got one ?

 

[Macbookprodude]

This proves why I am against this whole thing. jUST downloaded Netscape for OS X and tried to go to macrumors webkit and got this - IF this TLS crap wasn't an issue, i COULD use Netscape - while not made anymore, still a nice browser.

 

[oshimai]

Explain. How do I use this if i want to use Classila in OS 9 ? Or, even good working older safari versions. I still like my idea of declaring war on those who take away our internet rights to use what we want and how. Security does not matter to me at all, really. because I am behind firewalls.

I'm not in front of my main computer at the moment so I can't give you perfect step by step instructions (maybe a kind soul on this board can jump in and do it?) but if you have a Linux computer available, say a Raspberry Pi or similar, it should be straightforward if you spend some time on it.

There's an install guide for it here: https://github.com/atauenis/webone/wiki/Linux-installation

The steps seem to be
1. Download the install package
2. Install some dependencies
3. Edit the config file
4. Start it

Then, on your classic Mac, in your browser of choice, you'd set the IP address of your Linux computer running this thing as the proxy server and browse away.

Any website you visit with modern security protocols will get processed by the proxy server and it will serve them to your classic browser in a way it can understand.

Classic computers are a bit like classic cars, if you want to entertain that comparison. You need to put in a bit of effort to keep them in good working condition, and you'll find that as time moves on, certain things may not work as designed anymore. For example, radio is largely going digital and the analog stations will be switched off at some point. Then you need to install a converter box so your old analog radio can still get the digital stations. It's a similar story with old browsers and TLS in this case.

 

[Macbookprodude]

I'm not in front of my main computer at the moment so I can't give you perfect step by step instructions (maybe a kind soul on this board can jump in and do it?) but if you have a Linux computer available, say a Raspberry Pi or similar, it should be straightforward if you spend some time on it.

There's an install guide for it here: https://github.com/atauenis/webone/wiki/Linux-installation

The steps seem to be
1. Download the install package
2. Install some dependencies
3. Edit the config file
4. Start it

Then, on your classic Mac, in your browser of choice, you'd set the IP address of your Linux computer running this thing as the proxy server and browse away.

Any website you visit with modern security protocols will get processed by the proxy server and it will serve them to your classic browser in a way it can understand.

Classic computers are a bit like classic cars, if you want to entertain that comparison. You need to put in a bit of effort to keep them in good working condition, and you'll find that as time moves on, certain things may not work as designed anymore. For example, radio is largely going digital and the analog stations will be switched off at some point. Then you need to install a converter box so your old analog radio can still get the digital stations. It's a similar story with old browsers and TLS in this case.

I don't... any OS X alternatives ? I am now using Netscape - just checked my bank account - connected https there.. again, I am sick of tyrants telling us to use new browsers.

 

[RogerWilco6502]

I'm not in front of my main computer at the moment so I can't give you perfect step by step instructions (maybe a kind soul on this board can jump in and do it?) but if you have a Linux computer available, say a Raspberry Pi or similar, it should be straightforward if you spend some time on it.

There's an install guide for it here: https://github.com/atauenis/webone/wiki/Linux-installation

The steps seem to be
1. Download the install package
2. Install some dependencies
3. Edit the config file
4. Start it

Then, on your classic Mac, in your browser of choice, you'd set the IP address of your Linux computer running this thing as the proxy server and browse away.

Any website you visit with modern security protocols will get processed by the proxy server and it will serve them to your classic browser in a way it can understand.

Classic computers are a bit like classic cars, if you want to entertain that comparison. You need to put in a bit of effort to keep them in good working condition, and you'll find that as time moves on, certain things may not work as designed anymore. For example, radio is largely going digital and the analog stations will be switched off at some point. Then you need to install a converter box so your old analog radio can still get the digital stations. It's a similar story with old browsers and TLS in this case.

It's probably a good idea to set your Linux box to a static IP outside of the DHCP range so the IP doesn't have the possibility of changing ever.
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I don't... any OS X alternatives ? I am now using Netscape - just checked my bank account - connected https there.. again, I am sick of tyrants telling us to use new browsers.

There's this: https://forums.macrumors.com/thread...d-links2.2231286/?post=28373356#post-28373356

You can set up an SSH server on your OS X machine and then use an OS 9 SSH client.

 

[Dronecatcher]

@Macbookprodude It seems like you're conflating the effects of CV19 lockdown and the redundancy of OS9 into one perfect storm of clusterf*ck.
As @z970mp said, this will pass, the ripple effects in the economy will be quickly blamed on other factors and people will largely forget the details - if anything, reserve your rage against the TLS upgrade for the authorities who enforced this lockdown through uninformed panic rather than peer reviewed science.

As to wanting an OS9 compatible world back - that's just the aging process speaking to you. Few people readily embrace the advance of years - especially if their glory days are long behind them now.
You can't turn it back, you can't fight burgeoning tech giants, you can't fight unrestricted consumerism - if you try you will feel more isolated and mentally drained.
Detach yourself from the current direction, find worth in better things, do your retro tech for yourself and not care that the world isn't joining in.
Become an expert in OS9, - find ways to make it better, launch a Youtube channel, whatever...but find something to feel fulfilled about instead or creating a war you will never win.

Again, this crisis will pass - we've had far worse in the past but we didn't have a MSM hellbent on feeding us the end of days narrative at the same time.

 

[sparty411]

As the title says the best times of one’s life can never come back like it was. I feel like I have been asleep for close to 18 years and all that time I just let every hour and second fly when OS 9 between 2002-maybe 2011 was working and nostalgia could be relived.

With the current situation now grim and Covid-19 here, I feel this trip down OS 9 lane has been a very very PAINFUL and DEPRESSING experience. Top that on the fact, that I just recently ordered all sorts of things to be happy with while using my G4 Pismo. Brand new msata M2 board and 44-pin to M2 so I can have a faster experience with the Pismo - who knows maybe Tiger and TenFourFox will be usable.

In addition, bought Office 2001, X, soundjam MP Plus with all updates on my Mac pro ready to be used. I can see one issue after another - internet is no longer working properly, iTunes doesn’t work, though dronecatcher told me a way to do it.

Guys, I am at my wits end as I have fallen into a severe depression hoping this nostalgic reliving of OS 9 would help me, however I see it as destructive. Please advise how I can make my OS 9 nostalgia be like it was that day when in 2000 I bought my 1st Power Mac G4 sawtooth 350 where I was happy only to lose it all in late 2001-2002 because of financial issues.

Please keep me in your prayers, as I don’t know what to do anymore about this. I have 2 other PPC machines left - the DLSD G4 which just works (no issues with web), and a mighty G5 Quad - but something about OS 9 and me are linked.

I fully haven’t decided to retire the Pismo yet until I get feedback from you all. I am so sorry I bothered a lot of you about OS 9, but nostalgia and wanting this all to work like it did 15-20 years ago has made me regret it dearly.

Can someone tell me when was the last time OS 9 was fully functional - internet browsing and everything ? What damage did I do to miss the opportunity ??? Was it 2010 ? Was it 2007 ? I really hate my life and what has happened to me over the many years. I don’t know even how to get back to a normal life.

God bless you all and please help me.

Roman

The good old days are never coming back, man. We can't go back. Look for positive things happening in the here and now.