Agreed.
Is there actually any kind of expensive tech inside these things, which would justify the ridiculous prices of $200+?
Got a tip for us?
Let us know
Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Review: Elgato's $300 Thunderbolt 3 Dock Offers a Solid Set of Ports in a Slim Design
- Thread starter MacRumors
- Start date
- Sort by reaction score
Agreed.
Is there actually any kind of expensive tech inside these things, which would justify the ridiculous prices of $200+?
Agreed there. We've had many issues with accessory power bricks as well. I guess this just points to how seriously a full fledged dock needs to taken - skimping on any part won't cut it.
It would seem a little high given what I'd assume is inside, but there are likely specialized chips and/or licenses involved. I would guess we're primarily paying for the design and engineering of something that in the grand scheme of things, isn't going to sell all that many units. (For example, a car only has a couple thousand dollars worth of raw materials.)
See the ongoing discussion. The short answer is yes there is. Parts have to be chosen well. The design needs to come from a competent engineering department. As we just discussed, even the power brick needs to be high quality - PC docks typically come with a high-power version of the OEM brick which typically sells for $50-80 on its own. The $280 Lenovo dock I have includes this power supply http://www3.lenovo.com/us/en/access...rs/ADAPTR-TP-90W-AC-Adapter-SlimTip/p/0B46994 which sells for $70.
Exactly.
But, I think my other side point was comparing to previous Apple laptops. Aside from the cost of purchasing a dock separately, if I have a few USB ports, Ethernet, etc. built in, I can be pretty confident they'll all work. Even though I might still need a USB hub (or other external device), I can plug anything critical directly into the laptop. When I'm relying on an external USB hub or Ethernet, it's more likely to have things like compatibility issues, flaky behavior, or failure. And, it gets harder to troubleshoot. (ex: I've heard about some really hard to pin-down Ethernet related issues using Ethernet dongles, where as Apple's built-in Ethernet was always rock-solid.)
Yes, this is *NOT* something I'd be skimping on.
I used my previous Apple Thunderbolt 2 to LAN adapter for my 2016 MBP and I can connect at 1Gbps without any problem. When I use the Belkin one that Apple recommends, it could only connect at 100Mbps. Really don't know why.Exactly.
But, I think my other side point was comparing to previous Apple laptops. Aside from the cost of purchasing a dock separately, if I have a few USB ports, Ethernet, etc. built in, I can be pretty confident they'll all work. Even though I might still need a USB hub (or other external device), I can plug anything critical directly into the laptop. When I'm relying on an external USB hub or Ethernet, it's more likely to have things like compatibility issues, flaky behavior, or failure. And, it gets harder to troubleshoot. (ex: I've heard about some really hard to pin-down Ethernet related issues using Ethernet dongles, where as Apple's built-in Ethernet was always rock-solid.)
Yes, this is *NOT* something I'd be skimping on.
As if you couldn't do that before.
Enlighten me, good sir. Could I have used a firewire dock to plug all my USB 2 things into? A USB dock to handle my firewire drives? Was a USB 2 port capable of handling gigabit ethernet? Could my Mini displayport display also handle double duty powering the laptop?
This thing is trash (with 4k monitors anyway). My second external monitor connected via Display Port flickered and randomly blinked off and on. Replaced the DP cable, swapped monitors everything. Ended up going with the Kensington dock. No issues. This thing is sitting in my trunk until I get time to return it.
The dock you linked uses Thunderbolt. Agh, this is confusing. AFAIK, USB (the protocol, not the connector) cannot act as a display connection, but there are weak eGPUs with weird software support connected over USB (even 2.0). But I did forget that you can have DP over USB-C (the connector, not the protocol) without having Thunderbolt.
This wouldn't be as bad if most products actually made it clear exactly what protocols are in use.
[doublepost=1500797269][/doublepost]
Weird vendor-specific docking connectors, and a lot more expensive even than these Thunderbolt accessories. Sony had it even in the 90s, and I'm not sure why people bought them.
Last edited:
Not true at all. There have always been docking stations and port replicators from the 68k days to now. They have just not been that popular and all have been from third-party vendors rather than Apple.
Hengedocks is one name with a decent pedigree and some interesting designs, such as this vertical docking station for the 2012 MBP.
That's fine - but you're only using about a quarter of the theoretical I/O capability of the machine.
Most of them will work quite happily with a USB-C to USB-A cable - many of them even include that in the box (and most USB-C flash sticks I've seen are double-ended USB-C/USB-A). There don't seem to be many USB 3.1g2 (10Gbps) peripherals out there - and if I did have such a device I'd do my best to hook it up directly to a full-fat USB-C port on the computer rather than have it contend with other devices on a hub.
No - it doesn't.
USB-C dock: http://www.caldigit.com/usb-3-1-usb-c-dock/
Thunderbolt 3 dock: http://www.caldigit.com/thunderbolt-3-dock/thunderbolt-station-3-lite/index-uk.asp
The reason they mention Thunderbolt 3 is that it will work on a Thunderbolt 3 port because all Thunderbolt 3 ports are also USB-C ports supporting USB 3.1, but the "USB-C" dock in question connects to the host computer using USB 3.1 and USB-C DisplayPort alternate mode (which physically allocates wire pairs in the USB-C cable to USB 3.1 or DisplayPort). The more expensive "Thunderbolt 3" docks connect to the host using the faster Thunderbolt 3 protocols (which can carry 2x 4-lane DisplayPort 1.2 streams as part of the Thunderbolt signal). The two products look and act similarly, but the Thunderbolt one offers significantly higher performance. In particular, the wheels come off a USB-C dock as soon as you connect a 4k@60Hz display because (until DisplayPort 1.3/1.4 support rolls along) it needs all 4 high-speed data lanes, leaving just the legacy USB 2.0 lane.
Argh indeed.
I'm aware of those. They were the ultimate cob. Essentially just a port replicator as they had to literally plug into every port on the side of the Mac. Comments from the Amazon review section include:
There are tons more saying the exact same thing. Not surprising because this is just a bunch of cords fitted into a stand.
Is there any other explanation than high cost of components (+ development cost & low sales volumes)? Something doesn't seem right to you ("ridiculous prices"). You are looking for someone or something that bears responsibility for this. Like Intel charging a $100 fee per device, or the dock manufacturers earning a $200 gross margin. Meanwhile, the reality is at all likelihood much more boring and the 'guilt', if there is one, is much more diffuse.
Thunderbolt simply requires more complex components than USB (eg, remember the need for active cables, ie, cables with a chip at both ends instead of just copper wiring as with USB cables). From thereon, you start the cycle of higher costs leading to lower sales which in turn lead to higher costs. Somewhere in there, certain components might easily only be available from one manufacturer which assures that prices stay high. Finally, add the need for certification with Intel (necessary to some degree to ensure the interoperability of all these high-performance components).
Thunderbolt docks have always cost between $200 and $300. Don't expect that to change unless TB becomes significantly more popular.
Last edited:
Though there were other dynamics at play, VGA ports had shown a remarkably long life.
Slightly off topic but is there any TB3 product (dock or otherwise) that supports KVM switching? TB3 would need to be switched in that process out to an LG 5k.
You trashtalk older computers because you said that they needed to have all bungled mess of cables and thunderbolt fixes that. However you conveniently ignore the fact that thunderbolt has been around for about 6 years now and instead you make the comparison to.... FIREWIRE?
So again; what was stopping you from having a dock for the past 6 years with TB1 and TB2?
[doublepost=1500822236][/doublepost]
Thunderbolt WAS available on non-retina macbooks.
Last edited by a moderator:
Not in a format that could drive multiple high resolution screens and deliver power over a single connection.
Not sure what you mean. Single cable 5K display nearly saturates TB3 and is a perfect example of TB3's capability.
...but there's 3 more ports where that one came from (or, a second TB3 controller with the same bandwidth if that's more relevant). Is the MBP ever going to be able to use that bandwidth, or could the physical space have been used (e.g.) to keep the MagSafe connector...?
Power like wattage? Because, no, somewhere around $300 is/was also the going price for Thunderbolt 2 docks as well, which can't charge. But power like "capability"? Then, yes, USB-C docks (there appear to be some of both Gen 1 and Gen 2) docks are much cheaper, but as you mention, don't provide you with as much--especially if you want multiple displays or even jone high-resolution display.
Why do people want HDMI ports? For the audio? I've never used it so don't even know if Macs support passing out audio in addition to video over HDMI, but otherwise you're getting much more potential out of the DisplayPort they are including (and even more out of the second TB 3 port). If you really need HDMI, maybe an adapter would suit you well, and then you can use it in places besides this dock as well. (Don't laugh at the adapter; the purpose of a dock is docking, not port expansion per se.) Or, of course, another dock that does include it for some reason.
What's so outrageous about that? Dell's E-Port Plus Advanced Port Replicator (aka dock) is listed for $220: http://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/dell...ator-with-usb-3-0/apd/331-6304/pc-accessories
By the time you add in Thunderbolt licensing fees (however much those are; nobody seems to know--and they're going away soon), these Thunderbolt 3 docks that seem to max out around $300 don't seem that bad to me. Dell even has a Dell Thunderbolt 3 dock that lists for $299 but is currently selling for $255. You don't even have to allow for an "Apple tax" for the prices of Elgato, OWC, etc. to be comparable here.
Yea, I had to return a 3rd party TB Ethernet adapter too, and get the Apple one, for my MB Air. The 3rd party one, kinda, sorta worked, which made it even worse, as I did a quick test and then went on a trip, and *then* started to discover how flaky it was. (Can't recall what brand, but it was a well known brand, not something generic.)
I can't speak for them, but for me, TB3 is really the first time the port seems all that useful for real expansion (i.e.: eGPU) and/or multiple high-bandwidth thing at once. It's the first time the dream of a laptop that can match a desktop in many ways is somewhat a reality.
That said, after reading more about it, I'm having hesitations. It's much more finicky then I'd have imagined, which is why I jumped into this thread. If you're going to heavily use it, some deep research is in order.
Yea, be careful there. I get confused on which model and what ports, but afaik, all the TB3 ports are not equal, at least on some MBP models. Plus, if you get the 13" MBP, you've only got 2 to begin with.
Good point, but I'm guessing the TB2 docks still required enough power that they didn't use some of the cheap bricks that individual peripherals or USB hubs or such use.
I think the want for HDMI is that's a pretty standard port when it comes to displays (and cables are everywhere). If you have HDMI, you're pretty set with about any monitor, or the 'TV' in your hotel room, or in a board-room or giving a presentation. But, yea, if you're setting up your home/office desk, you can probably buy the right combination of cables to get around the 'need' for HDMI.
Some people use dual 5K monitors, which I'd imagine is a killer setup.
Then they still have other ports for ultra fast RAID setup. This would be a video/photo editor's dream.
Just to clarify, the 13" MBP Escape has only two TB3 ports (and a MBA-class CPU). The 13" MBP w/ Touchbar has four TB3 ports, but only the ones on the left side can deliver 40 Gbit/s, the ones on the right side only offer 20 Gbit/s (which is due to running out of PCIe lanes coming from the CPU). On the 15" MBP, all four TB3 ports can deliver 40 Gbit/s (though obviously not all four simultaneously. It is my understanding, that you can have 40 Gbit/s distributed as you wish between the two left ports and 40 Gbit/s distributed as you wish between the two right ports.