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trqy said:
I'm curiosly thinking about if there'll be any heat issue with the upcoming mactel minis? :confused:

We already know that today's IntelPCs have a real "hot" heat issues. I'd read this somewhere else; while standart PCs need ~250watts, the mac minis just need ~20watts.. Numbers may be wrong, if so please correct me.
It's highly unlikely an Intel Mac Mini would contain a high speed P4 at 3.8GHz - more likely a P-M based CPU at 1.6GHz, which needs about 25 W. They are currently about $200 retail, and probably will cost Apple much less.
 
trqy said:
I'm curiosly thinking about if there'll be any heat issue with the upcoming mactel minis? :confused:

We already know that today's IntelPCs have a real "hot" heat issues. I'd read this somewhere else; while standart PCs need ~250watts, the mac minis just need ~20watts.. Numbers may be wrong, if so please correct me.

I think you'll find an AMD based SFF system to be quite competitive power-wise, not as low as the mini, although I haven't measured the mini's consumption, however there will be a significant performance increase over the Mac Mini.

Intel? Well, until the Pentium-M is released in a desktop variant, you'll have a roaster P4. There are a few systems with them, and they'll probably be pretty low power - between the Mac Mini and the AMD system, depending on speed and functionality.

The top-end Mac Mini is quite tempting now - dual layer DVD burning, 1.5GHz, 64MB VRAM (although the 9200 is still a let down, I suppose it beats out Intel Integrated!), Bluetooth 2, etc.

I expect the next Mac Mini will be using integrated graphics - so for all of your moaning about 32 or 64MB VRAM - next year it will be shared memory only. Unless Apple sources chipsets from ATI or nVidia anyway - the GeForce 6150 chipset looks pretty damn good for an integrated chipset, but is AMD only at the moment.
 
It's strange that they went with 32 Mb vram for the lowend model and 64 Mb for the other two. Does an extra 32 Mb cost them that much more? Is this just a way to force upselling? I'm not sure if this requires them to use two different motherboards - maybe they are clearing out remaining inventory of the old motherboards in the lowend model?
 
Stella said:
PowerBook for several years has always been updated about once a year.

There is more scope for Mac Mini upgrades than PowerBook upgrades.

If Apple upgraded PB without a new processor, people would complain, if they ship with a new processor, people would still complain about it.

That's fair enough but the other side of the argument is that the PowerBook is the top-of-the-range (ToTR) notebook while the Mini is the entry level desktop. Then you have to think to yourself "Is it harder to keep a computer at the entry level or at the ToTR level?" Obviously it is harder to keep a computer ToTR. Therefore why shouldn't the PowerBook get more regular updates to keep it from becoming obsolete (for want of a better word) against other PC based notebooks.

With two quick successive updates to the Mini it seems like Apple are putting a lot of effort (compared to other lines) into keeping it an entry level machine. I'm not saying the Mini isn't deservive of regular updates to keep it good value, just that i wish Apple had this enthusiasm for all of their products.
 
I think the biggest issue is that Apple, above all else, does not want to run the pipeline dry. They made that mistake last year with the new iMac's. Their sales have to be in a slump with the Intel announcement.

This way they can keep product flowing to the stores and customers by introducing the new product in the stream, once it has started showing at the apple stores themselves, an announcement will be made.

School just started, the holidays are coming. Nobody in their right mind will gripe if the machine in their box just happens to be a little bit better than what they thought they were buying.

If you have to have a mini, then buy one. If you want the best chance to get a newer, faster one, then buy it online with a build to order. If you want to be absolutely sure you get the newer, faster one, then wait until it's officially announced.

Apple probably just can't afford a stalled pipeline to the consumer right now. No big conspiricy theory here. :eek:

With any luck I'll be ordering a a mini in a couple of weeks. I still am a bit shy on cash for the new box. Whichever one I get will be a nice upgrade from my b&w. :rolleyes:
 
MacTruck said:
I'll tell you why this is wrong. Its not a bonus its deceptive. By shipping better minis in the old packaging they are not allowing resellers to discount the 1.42 units. The older units need to be cheaper now and the 1.5ghz units same price as before.

Profit margins are sufficiently small on the Mac minis, that I fail to see how Apple or resellers would benefit from discounting anything. I think it's more like, this move keeps resellers from having to discount older models, and secures their expected revenues.

Let's say I sell version 1 of a product, for $100, from the beginning of January until the end of April. In May, version 2, which is better than version 1, becomes available. Let's say the market will not support paying more than $100 for either version 1 or 2. This means that I have to sell version 2 for $100. That will create downward pressure on version 1's price, if I advertise version 2, while I still have version 1 in stock.

So, I have two scenarios, try to sell all version 1 units before version 2 is available, or come up with a strategy for selling both simultaneously. Keep in
mind that there are multiple variants of version 1 and several variants of version 2, and some variants sell better than others. Also, other retailers might sell out of version 1 first, and so move onto version 2 before I can, meaning that even if I try as best as I can to sell out at the right time, if they do a better job, then they'll take business from me with their version 2 sales, leaving me with unsellable version 1s. And if I sell out too early, then I'll have no product, version 1 or 2 to sell, which might reduce consumer's confidence in my store. So, no matter which way you stack it, I really can only reallistically employ a strategy of selling version 1 and 2 simultaneously.

Ok, so we're back to the fact that knowledge of version 2's superiority putting downward price pressure on version 1. Now, I purchased version 1s for $50 and expected to sell them for $100, and make $50 profit. If I discount version 1s, then I lose profit. Potentially, the improved features in version 2 might cause sufficient downward price pressure on version 1, that it can no longer be sold for a profit. My only recourse is to have a contract with my supplier that allows me to return products that I can't sell. If their margins are sufficiently small, then that might wipe out their profits as well. So, I might have to sell it at a loss. In this scenario, either me or my supplier lose out. Most likely we both lose out. Not a good business strategy.

So, we now look at Apple's current strategy of not advertising the improvements in version 2, and continuing to label both as version 1, until all true version 1s have been flushed through the supply chain. There is no downside. In fact, I posit that only people who read rumor sites, and who have bizarre ideas of self-entitlement, are the only ones who lose out, in their own minds.
 
Would you buy a car that was different then what the label on the window said? Then why would Apple ship a 1.5 Mac Mini in a 1.42 box? Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. There has got to be some law against that or something.
 
mac_hine82 said:
Would you buy a car that was different then what the label on the window said?

Actually, yeah, I did. Turned out it had several features that weren't on the label, and therefore weren't included in the price. No, I didn't complain, any more than someone getting a 1.5 instead of 1.42 is going to complain. (Not that anybody would actually even notice the difference unless they specifically looked at the system info.)

--Eric
 
mac_hine82 said:
Would you buy a car that was different then what the label on the window said? Then why would Apple ship a 1.5 Mac Mini in a 1.42 box? Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. There has got to be some law against that or something.

You have to be trolling :confused: Surely you couldn't have read through 200+ posts and come up with that insightful comment. This argument has been done to death already.....
 
Eric5h5 said:
(Not that anybody would actually even notice the difference unless they specifically looked at the system info.)

Oh I think I would notice the difference between an 8x Dual Layer and a 4x Single Layer Superdrive. I might notice that Exposé doesn't lag on my monitor due to the extra video memory first or maybe that GarageBand doesn't stutter thanks to the 5400rpm hard drive.

Maybe they are waiting on parts for the PowerBook so they can be announced at the same time. Can't have a Mac mini with a better Superdrive than a PowerBook, right? Especially when they use the same slot-loading model. So maybe another 3 to 4 weeks of this ask the magic eight ball what you will get approach to upgrades.

The local Apple Store has been getting a lot of "What model will I get if I buy one today?" questions. Word travels fast. They have been telling customers to wait until an official announcement if they want the better model. LOL. I guess Apple never heard of this thing called the internet before. Sorry, the secret is out and sales are slipping. Gee, who would have thought people would prefer to wait?
 
1984 said:
The local Apple Store has been getting a lot of "What model will I get if I buy one today?" questions. Word travels fast. They have been telling customers to wait until an official announcement if they want the better model. LOL. I guess Apple never heard of this thing called the internet before. Sorry, the secret is out and sales are slipping. Gee, who would have thought people would prefer to wait?

Again and again, just a couple of remarks:

1 - "What model will I get?" - The model you've just ordered, Sir...why should you expect something else?

2 - Sales are slipping...where to?

No one has any right to complain in any jurisdiction on this planet Earth, I am sure...Apple is giving them what is duly advertised...anything else is just an unexpected gift, or a nice failure in inventory control...period.
 
MacsRgr8 said:
I have the Rev. A 1.42 GHz one....
Forget HD.... even MPEG2 (so not even H.264!) encoded HD movies don't play fluently (720p is 15-20 fps, 1080p/i gets below 10). :(

If you want to watch a 1080p H.264 encoded movie, hope for a Dual 2 GHz G5 mini... or the eventual Pentium M mini.

Excuse my ignorance, but is DivX and Xvid video a variant of H.264 (MPEG-4)?

I have a number of DivX encoded video files at approx. 720p type resolutions that I currently play on my Athlon XP 2200 PC system with absolutely no frame drops whatsoever.

I was rather hoping that the Mac Mini would be a suitable replacement for my PC in this area....am I dreaming?
 
danp said:
I was rather hoping that the Mac Mini would be a suitable replacement for my PC in this area....am I dreaming?

It would be nice if the Mac Mini's GPU could accelerate Core Video.

The latest GPUs from ATI and nVidia (across the board) support H.264 decode acceleration. I wouldn't be surprised if that could be ported to all the CoreImage compatible cores either.

I think that come next year, whatever CPU Apple is using, it is pretty essential to have the Mac Mini consumer system being able to decode at least 720p without any skipped frames.
 
Eric5h5 said:
Actually, yeah, I did. Turned out it had several features that weren't on the label, and therefore weren't included in the price. No, I didn't complain, any more than someone getting a 1.5 instead of 1.42 is going to complain. (Not that anybody would actually even notice the difference unless they specifically looked at the system info.)

--Eric

Ok thats great you got a good deal on your car. What if you got an extra 500mg with in every heart pill you took with out the label showing or an extra 200 fat grams per big mac. Or perhaps you were buying a hybrid car and it came with a V12 that only got 4mpg but the label said something else? If I got a 1.5 instead or a 1.42 I would be happy too but not if im trying to buy one and got the 1.42.
 
MarkCollette said:
Profit margins are sufficiently small on the Mac minis, that I fail to see how Apple or resellers would benefit from discounting anything. I think it's more like, this move keeps resellers from having to discount older models, and secures their expected revenues.

Yes, I think that's part of it. Let's think of a typical upgrade. Apple tries to deplete the pipeline of existing stock for several weeks/months ahead of time by not producing any old models. Then they announce the new product which is sometimes not immediately available or has limited availability. The problems here are several:

1) Apple has to wait until the existing inventory sells through to low enough levels to allow the upgrade announcement. If sales are slow, this can significantly delay the timing of upgrades (and the whole rumor mill just feeds in to this as people put off buying and don't help to lower the pipeline inventory) ... I think those of us who have frequented the boards remember several instances where upgrades were rumored but didn't appear for a long time, possibly due to slow sales

2) Once the announcement is made, retailers have to either offer substantial discounts to customers willing to take the old models or put people on waiting lists, either way they lose potential revenue


I assume with the stealth launch, Apple online store orders start shipping out the new models first. This does several things. It allows the upgrade to start entering the system gradually (without the demand spike caused by an official announcement), thereby eliminating shortages, and the upgrade can be introduced earlier than usual because the normal inventory depletion can happen simultaneously through the retail channel (whose buyers are largely unaware of the new model). The stealth launch also has the advantage of driving sales of those in the know to the Apple online store, which is in keeping with Apple's policy to push as much of its sales as possible through the online site (which gives it the fattest margins per unit). Its not a bad strategy, but I still think the lack of transparency leaves a funny taste in my mouth, and there will be some cases where receiving more than what's expected is not a good thing (again, I bring up the example of someone buying in advance an external firewire drive for their mini in order to correct what they expect to be a speed deficiency in the internal drive)
 
mac_hine82 said:
Would you buy a car that was different then what the label on the window said? Then why would Apple ship a 1.5 Mac Mini in a 1.42 box? Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. There has got to be some law against that or something.

My car came with cup holders, but cupholders weren't listed on the label in the window - should I sue the dealer?

That would be a stupid law. Laws are made to protect people. How is disallowing giving a customer more than what they asked for protecting them?

It's really very simple - if you order a mini - you get at least what you ordered. They have fulfilled their obligation. If you get more, good, if not, why should you expect it.

Apple also upgrades customers automatically within 10 days of a new model coming out - should that be illegal to?
 
Hmmm...

This seems to me that's the luck of the draw. I don't blame Apple for not announcing it, because then they would be stuck with all of the older models which they would probably have to discount in order to sell them, thus they would loose some profit. Of course every tech savvy person want's the 1.5ghz with the 64mb of VRAM and a DL DVD-R drive but, for an average Mac or PC user they probably wouldn't know the difference unless they do video or graphics work.

Eventually the 1.5ghz models will be labeled correctly on the site and the store and all the 1.4ghz will become collector's items, haha. :p

Still a 1.5ghz Mac Mini with a 64mb Graphics chip and a dual-layer DVD-R drive is nice...I'll wait until Apple officially announces it before I consider buying one. :)
 
Yes, if a purchaser wants the 1.5 then it would be prudent to wait. Showing that they are trying to clear out the older version. A person purchased the high end 1.42. Told the salesman that he wanted to have 1 GB of RAM total. Was told the price difference between the 512 and 1 GB chip. Both agreed why not just get the 512. The RAM couldn't be installed that day. The person wasn't able to pickup the min until over a week later. When going to pick it up was given back the original 512. The Genius said that the mini only has one slot. So could only switch. So after a discussion of what happened at the original purchase, the Genius understood. He offered to install 1 GB RAM at the price of the 512. Think he realized that otherwise the purchase would have been refused.

So now the mini has 1GB of RAM should perform very well. The person is just an average user. Now what to do with the 512 of RAM?
 
not happy

I was going to buy a mini, but I don't want to buy it without the upgrade.

The 5400 is going to be the real speed pop, the 1.42 to 1.5 i think is marginal, so that is not really necessary. I think the VRAM will make SOME differance, but not much.

But, I don't want to buy it, EVEN GETTING WHAT IS LISTED ON THE BOX, and not getting the upgraded model,

so, apple has effected a delay in my purchase, could have helped them with the quarter.
 
The first mac I ever bought was from a microcenter... I payed $932 for a store demo dual 500 graphite powermac g4 with a DVD-RAM drive.

When I got it home.. and booted it, I found, to my surprise.... that they had given me a brand new (top of the line at that time) 733 digital audio with superdrive. The $3000 machine I walked out of there with, I only payed $932.

They never called me asking for it back.

I never complained.

I have no idea why these mac mini freaks are complaining about this. You pay for one thing, you get something better. It's awesome.
 
tivoboy said:
I was going to buy a mini, but I don't want to buy it without the upgrade.

The 5400 is going to be the real speed pop, the 1.42 to 1.5 i think is marginal, so that is not really necessary. I think the VRAM will make SOME differance, but not much.

But, I don't want to buy it, EVEN GETTING WHAT IS LISTED ON THE BOX, and not getting the upgraded model,

so, apple has effected a delay in my purchase, could have helped them with the quarter.

Okay then... and here you are complaining. I think this is a complaint.... isn't it?

In the hypothetical situation that you HAD NOT KNOWN this upgrade was coming, would you have bought the 1.42 this week?

So, what apple has done... is given you the knowledge. Otherwise, you'd have been over here next week complaining "I just bought a 1.42 last week, and now my system is obsolete!"
 
mac_hine82 said:
Would you buy a car that was different then what the label on the window said? Then why would Apple ship a 1.5 Mac Mini in a 1.42 box? Sounds like a bunch of bull to me. There has got to be some law against that or something.

Would you complain if the car was better than adverstied?

Excuse me mr. salesman. This car has features and accessories I didn't ask for or pay for. I want the car I paid for. Not some better version.
 
who knows? maybe the box printing plant is in a hurricane area, (or because of that, some materials are not available to any printing plant)and Apple hasnt gotten their new boxes-and thus are using old stock-which would normally go into the trash, or recycling.
 
Wow, this thread should just be renamed to the "Official Complainers Thread" - I haven't seen so many complaints like this in a thread for quite a while. Especialy due to the nature of the complaints, some of them are just silly. Very amusing to read through... :D
 
cr2sh said:
The first mac I ever bought was from a microcenter... I payed $932 for a store demo dual 500 graphite powermac g4 with a DVD-RAM drive.

When I got it home.. and booted it, I found, to my surprise.... that they had given me a brand new (top of the line at that time) 733 digital audio with superdrive. The $3000 machine I walked out of there with, I only payed $932.

They never called me asking for it back.

I never complained.

I have no idea why these mac mini freaks are complaining about this. You pay for one thing, you get something better. It's awesome.

What a great lucky man you are, so!!!
I'm still waiting my Mini to come after 3 months...

Life is unfair!!! :rolleyes:
 
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